WWE Lacking Fully-Hated Heels?

[xsKiitz]

I've just noticed, the WWE have very minimal heels who we actually hate. Opinions may differ, but a great deal of people actually like most of the heels we have, and the ones we hate are because they're just not good, not because of they're good at being hated.

Examples.
We have Dolph Ziggler and Cody Rhodes and somewhat Barrett who everyone's starting to love, and I'm quite a fan of both because they're entertaining and have great personalities and great looks to them. The Miz, I love the guy, and he gets decents pops every now and then, because he's funny and entertaining. R-Truth, not as much as Miz, but he's a comedy character so people find him funny and laugh with him.

Ones who are hated and hated for being a good heel, are Mark Henry (heard one chant for him though), Del Rio (not the best heel though), Christian (amazing heel). There are probably more in both catagories but you get what I mean. Back in the day, we had JBL, Regal, Umaga, Khali, heel Orton/Punk, Edge, Mohammed Hassan best heel IMO. When they were still in the WWE as heels I could NOT stand any of them. Now I find myself cheering for Ziggler and hoping Barrett wins every match he's in.

I hate Jack Swagger, but that's because I find him to uninteresting. Different topic. But I find it annoying how all the heels are likable, there needs to be more hated heels. Builds for better fueds also.

Anyone else seem to find this?

-

 

[keehlnate]

Maybe it is because we are now more open-minded and see them how they act, rather than what they act? That might be the case because we are watching the careers of the current heels particulary Ziggler, Rhodes, Barrett and The Miz. We are observing on how WWE is booking them, or how they do their own act, and if they can really be a hated heel. If you will look these current heels the way on how you will look at these what you are calling 'full fledged heel' of the past like Edge, Jericho, JBL, Orton they are just the same. Maybe because we are aware now of how these things work that is why we have a different perspective that these heels can actually be likeable.

 

[The Champ]

Internet marks tend to not hate heels. This is not a reflection on the heels in question, but rather a reflection on how times have changed and people form their own opinions now more than ever before. There are also groups of people who just think it's cool to cheer heels. WWE can't control crowd reactions like they could back in the 80s, so in a way it's actually become a bigger challenge. But you also have to remember that just because heels are liked here doesn't mean they're not hated by the audience. In that sense, guys like Miz and Rhodes are doing their jobs fine.

It's also opened up room for a new wave of heels: people already hated by the internet. Michael Cole and John Laurinaitis are two excellent examples of this. WWE knew that no one would ever cheer for either because of the negative rap they already had among 'net fans, and that it wouldn't be hard to convince the audience to hate them as well. People say it's X-Pac heat as an excuse for hating them, because they don't want to admit that they're being sucked in.

 

[mkman613]

IMO the reason for guys like ziggler, rhodes, and barrett getting pops is bc the ppl who are cheering for them are te same ppl who are booing cena. the older male crowd, many of whom are IWC.

we cheer for them bc we think they do a good job. and we like them as professional wrestelrs and ppl we want to see.

what we should be doing is booing them even harder. our cheering heels is not a validation for them from the IWC. its actually contrary to what they want. they want us to boo. I say the louder we boo the heels we like (ziggler, rhodes) and the louder we cheer faces we like (punk...) the more we helping to get these guys over with the entire crowd. we would be helping those we like. then we should just be silent when guys like cena come out. guys who get no reaction, dont get time.

 

[WolfNyte]

Back in the day the great thing about heels is they would interact with the crowd more. They might get out of the ring like punk has done and get in the face of a fan. However, due to assnecks who sue cause a wrestler may have caused them to pee their pants that cant be done anymore. Hell I think it was sandman who got sued cause some biotch got beer in her eye when he smashed the can against his own head.

Let me give you a personal example one night in hartford I had ringside seats and it was Bret Hart against Doink the clown. I was yelling to the ref he was holding the ropes having some fun and doink left the ring came up to me and told me to shut the hell up. I told him to make me and we got nose to nose and it was a blast. I even had clown makeup on my forehead and nose after it. Best night of my life but of course brett came down out of the ring and popped him and dragged him back to the ring. After the match Brett gave me a high five and smirked and even Doink looked at me and did a menacing face but I knew it was a fun.

That cannot be done now in todays world some assneck would come up with some lame ass lawsuit like when cleaning the clown make up off it got in his eye and now has lost his vision.

 

[WunNightStan619]

Its not that WWE is lacking in heels, its just that we are older now and dont look at wrestling how we used to. We tend to look at it from more of a critical eye and appreciate the work that they do, rather than looking for a good guy or a bad guy. Cody Rhodes isnt anywhere near a likable character, but his work is stellar, and thats what makes us like him.

 

[Rockyfolifebo!!!]

Ya know, I've noticed something. I was sitting here thinking, and now that I think about it NONWRESTLERS get more heat than the WRESTLERS themselves!! Think about it! You have Vicki, everyone hates her with her "excuse me" and squealing at the top of her lungs. Then you have Laurinitis or however you spell his name. His talking pisses everyone off, he always announces himself as the GM of Raw and talent relations blah blah blah. He's genuinely boring. Everytime he comes out, I REALLY get genuinely pissed! Then we have Michael Cole. Arguably the most hated heel of 2011. He's got so much heat for riding The Miz for most of the year, feuding with JR, the whole computer GM thing, plus his interruptions in important matches. Not to mention his being disrespectful to divas during their matches. So my theory is, if creative can get someone to be as annoying and hated as the 3 people mentioned above, then we'll have a hated heel for a wrestler! Think about it. . .

 

[Foshinzo]

I'm not going to say that it's because I'm 37 that I don't like today's heels, I'm going to say something different:

It's just the announcing from a Michael Cole.

Faces need to be supported by the announcing. They need someone there shouting, "Oh man! Look at what a swell guy Daniel Bryan is!" They don't need the majority of commentating dragging them down, and that's what VKM is doing with Cole. The signals are conflicting.

Cole wouldn't be so bad though if he had a Gorilla Monsoon. For as lousy and loud as Bobby Heenan could be, Gorilla Monsoon was always there to get just as loud for the faces. Maybe if Jerry Lawler would get in Cole's grill and be just as loud for the faces, it would work. But Cole drowns everyone out.

It's not that I'm going to say the Cole character needs to go away, but he just needs someone to contrast him, because he's making the heels look worse, too. Their actions don't need to make sense. They need to be scolded, to be told that they're low down and despicable, because it gets them over as heels. We don't get much of that, and instead we have Michael Cole making sense of what they do. The heel's actions shouldn't at all make sense. This is wrestling, not Silence of the Lambs.

It's what made JR so great. For as annoying as Lawler could be about the Rock and McMahon, we had JR fighting for Steve Austin's name. The heels can't be full heels with Cole justifying what they do and making the faces look, "wormy." It just doesn't make sense and it's really dragging down the talent. Otherwise, I'd say that the heels are still the same. If Miz wasn't being heralded on commentary as being great, then he would seem more like a big time heel.

Cole needs to step away and be a manager character. That's essentially what he's already doing. He can take guys like Swagger or some lower card guys and help them out.

 

[H33LTurn]

I dont know the reason why but I think it has something to do with them not being heel-ish in real life. Triple H was a believable heel because everyone already hated his guts over "holding down younger talent". JBL was a great heel because he really was a rich political snob who you could catch on NBC if you watched back then.

 

[Paralyzer Z]

I'm not going to say that it's because I'm 37 that I don't like today's heels, I'm going to say something different:

It's just the announcing from a Michael Cole.

Faces need to be supported by the announcing. They need someone there shouting, "Oh man! Look at what a swell guy Daniel Bryan is!" They don't need the majority of commentating dragging them down, and that's what VKM is doing with Cole. The signals are conflicting.

Cole wouldn't be so bad though if he had a Gorilla Monsoon. For as lousy and loud as Bobby Heenan could be, Gorilla Monsoon was always there to get just as loud for the faces. Maybe if Jerry Lawler would get in Cole's grill and be just as loud for the faces, it would work. But Cole drowns everyone out.

It's not that I'm going to say the Cole character needs to go away, but he just needs someone to contrast him, because he's making the heels look worse, too. Their actions don't need to make sense. They need to be scolded, to be told that they're low down and despicable, because it gets them over as heels. We don't get much of that, and instead we have Michael Cole making sense of what they do. The heel's actions shouldn't at all make sense. This is wrestling, not Silence of the Lambs.

It's what made JR so great. For as annoying as Lawler could be about the Rock and McMahon, we had JR fighting for Steve Austin's name. The heels can't be full heels with Cole justifying what they do and making the faces look, "wormy." It just doesn't make sense and it's really dragging down the talent. Otherwise, I'd say that the heels are still the same. If Miz wasn't being heralded on commentary as being great, then he would seem more like a big time heel.

Cole needs to step away and be a manager character. That's essentially what he's already doing. He can take guys like Swagger or some lower card guys and help them out.

Based on your entire post, I will make an inference: You think that the commentators should stand up to Cole more.

The beauty of his character only comes partially from himself. You hate Micheal Cole more because he owns EVERYONE that sits in that commentator booth. Booker and Lawler make lame attempts to strike back, but they are intentionally corny and noneffective to give Cole more heat. That is why he gets more heat, the fans know that only the in ring competitors can bring Cole down, he has become a mega-heel.

Back to the OP.

WWE currently has plenty of fully-ledged heels right now. The Miz comes out and insults the WWE universe on a weekly basis. Dolph Ziggler shows off every time he is on screen. Want proof that the characters are working and doing their job? The majority of the fans (excluding smarks) boo them every week. If the fans hate them you know they are doing a good job of making people dislike them. Vickie and Cole are loathed by the fans, they get heat for just saying one word. When the heels are funny it's just for a laugh, you don't always have to be so serious in WWE.

 

[Viggo LeBeau]

What it is, quite simply, is not necessarily the heels not being truly hated but the faces they're feuding with aren't relating to the crowds like back in the day. If the fans could really get behind a face and relate to them, like Stone Cold Steve Austin, then the heels would come across as being hated. But unfortunately for the heels, they're more entertaining and we want to see guys like Barrett, Rhodes, Ziggler, and The Miz succeed and get properly pushed. WWE...hell wrestling in general needs better babyfaces!

 

[kokoBawesome]

I don't know, people are getting too smart. I wanna boo Christian in theory, but the next time i see him live i'm going to cheer my ass off because hes one of my favorites. Not even sure who i would boo right now.... Mark Henry i guess, but i really don't feel any emotion toward him either way.... Its looks fun to boo Vickie, and i honestly hate cole so that might be fun too.

Maybe its because i'm nearing thirty and i appreciate how good the heels are. I can't remember the last timed i honestly hated anyone....

Kurt Angle.... I didn't get him as a character, than he interrupted Triple Hs comeback at MSG and I was seething.... within a year he was my favorite wrestler.

yeah, the WWE is really missing full on hateable heels right now. If the heels are good at their job I like them more. I guess its because the heels dont cheat like they used to. They aren't on Vinces side and screwing over the good guys all the time. Fuck... THE ROCK NEEDS TO BECOME A HEEL BEFORE WRESTLEMANIA. hes the only one that could really show these new kids how to get hated. especially since Cena is already working to get the fans against him.

 

[ULTRASTARZZ]

Actually, I noticed that the WWE has too many heels in recent years, and as such has had a very difficult time building up any new babyfaces, so they have to resort to turning veteran heels (Randy Orton, CM Punk) into heelish faces to fill those gaps. And since they are veterans, and they will mostly face young heels, the audience will have a difficult time accepting that those unproven studs even stand a chance.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

This is something that's common in all wrestling companies nowadays. Whenever you turn on TNA or even ROH, you'll see fans that cheer for the "cool heels" or will cheer for guys that they like whether they're heel or face.

We've seen it in WWE with CM Punk, Randy Orton, R-Truth, Triple H, Christian, Edge and so many others. Mark Henry is probably the most overall hated heel in wrestling right now because he's "feared". People look at Henry, they listen to what he has to say and what he's doing, they see what he's legitimately capable of in terms of strength and reason to themselves that it's easy to dislike this guy because not only is he a bully, but he's a bully that can beat the crap out of damn near anybody.

Heels today aren't really doing anything different than heels were doing 20 years ago. They take short cuts in their matches, they cheat to win, they insult the live crowds, they jump babyface wrestlers from behind, they smack around announcers & commentators, they flaunt their wealth & success by shoving it in the faces of the fans, etc. The problem is that the audience isn't the same as it was 20 years ago. Again, due in large part to the internet, the audience is much more educated as to the goings on behind the scenes, how characters are developed, what's ultimately going to happen, etc.

Besides that, there's only so far you can go with a heel. The only way to generate the type of "pure heel" response that we saw 20 years ago would be if you had heels coming out and portraying themselves in a certain light. For instance, what if you had a heel wrestler portraying this character with a mission to be a moral compass for the rest of the world and part of his schtick would be to openly denounce homosexuality, declare that abortionists should be put to death, etc. Such a character would be extremely controversial to say the least and would probably generate an intense heel response from some people. But, look at the people who would be offended by such a character and I'm not just talking about people who are gay or who are even particularly religious. Look at the negative attention such a character could bring to the WWE and just imagine if someone went out and bombed an abortion clinic after saying they were, at least partially, motivated by the words of a pro wrestler they saw on television the week before.

Sure, that sort of character is an extreme example but it's also the type of character that could get that extremely old school heel reaction. The WWE's not going to do a character like that and, quite frankly, no wrestling company with anyone sane running things would either, so what they've got left is the primarily harmless heel formula to rely on.

 

[Arcade]

I agree with what Jackhammer said. WWE lack heels who send out controversial messages. Wade Barrett tried to be that way at Capital Punishment but failed. The last controversial heel I can remember was Muhammad Hassan and he was hated by everyone. He was so hated that UPN didn't wantt him on the channel at all. This Guy was an awesome heel and if he won a world title, half of the WWE fans would kill themselves.

 

[XXJJ]

I think its tough to have a full-fledged hated heel because of the Attitude Era. Some fans just want to cheer for the heels because they either like the wrestler or they think its the cooler thing to do. The babyface that appeals to kids seem to be the most hated character among smarks.

Also a lot of the current WWE heels just aren't good enough to draw heat from the crowd. Its sad that Cole, Vickie, Laurnities draw more heat than any of their heel wrestlers.

 

[Alittude]

It's definately WWE's fault with booking as well as the talent themselves. Bully Ray is probally the best full fledged 'heel' in wrestling right now as you look at him compared to anyone in the WWE and no one is close. He can draw reactions from the crowds at any point on the mic or in the ring and makes people actually hate him. This is also probally because it is similar to how he is in real life so he iss 100% believable.

Mark Henry is one of the more hated heels and that's from booking alone. He has never done a promo that makes you really hate him afterwards, it's more the injuries and his hall of pain that made him so fearful.

Del Rio is bland as bread and Miz does well but a lot of people don't seem to take him too seriously for one reason or another. I don't want to say PG has anything to do with it as it's not the main reason at all but imagine if someone like Miz was allowed to be much more brutal and violent and attacking guys from behind leaving a fan favorite a bloody mess, that would add much more heat than he has now.

 

[Marv95]

Even if Miz shown more of a brutal side he is still hard to take seriously because of his look. When he scowled in a promo after he took out Morrison he looked constipated. I do agree with Bully Ray being the best heel; I said WWE needed someone like him on the roster since his gimmick started.

Edge and Hassan are the last 2 fully-fledged heels I could think of. The current crop either gets cheered, aren't over or is booked in a way that is counterproductive for a dastardly heel.

 

[Alittude]

Ahh Hassan could have been one of the greatest of this generation if that stupid mess up didn't happen. He had heat like no other at the time and had the crowd in the palm of his hand, as well as being excellent on the mic and good in the ring and had the perfect look. The gimmick and booking was so smart as well in that whole angle as he actually had a point and even though he was actually American people would still chant USA with a lot of emotion.

WWE is missing that kind of heat and passion right now and it's due to them not booking things right along with some talent not being up to scratch.

 

[Dagger Dias]

I have noticed this as well. WWE and TNA both lack heels that the fans legitimately hate. The problem is that the Attitude Era made it cool to be a heel by pushing antiheroes. Both federations need to build up heels that the fans are going to boo out of dislike for the character's actions. Heels that do their job best are boo'ed for their heelish actions, not for the fans wanting them off their tv. Mark Henry for example generates a negative reaction from me. It isn't legit heel heat though. It's "go away" heat. The same can be said for Vickie for nearly every fan. The closest that WWE has to a heel with legit heat right now is The Miz. Gone are the days of oldschool hated heels or even modern guys like JBL who made you want to pay to see them get the beating they deserve because today's heels get pushed in a way that gets them cheered as antiheroes.

 

[Alittude]

I have noticed this as well. WWE and TNA both lack heels that the fans legitimately hate. The problem is that the Attitude Era made it cool to be a heel by pushing antiheroes. Both federations need to build up heels that the fans are going to boo out of dislike for the character's actions. Heels that do their job best are boo'ed for their heelish actions, not for the fans wanting them off their tv. Mark Henry for example generates a negative reaction from me. It isn't legit heel heat though. It's "go away" heat. The same can be said for Vickie for nearly every fan. The closest that WWE has to a heel with legit heat right now is The Miz. Gone are the days of oldschool hated heels or even modern guys like JBL who made you want to pay to see them get the beating they deserve because today's heels get pushed in a way that gets them cheered as antiheroes.

TNA has Bully Ray who is an excellent heel imo. Everytime he talks on the mic he generates good heat and his heelish actions in the ring alwats get under the crowds skin. Roode is also doing well at the moment because he is being booked strongly and is at the top of his game at the moment.

The sad thing is the best heel in the company is probably Michael Cole as people actually want to punch his face in haha. When an announcer and a manger (Vickie) are easily your most over heels then you know you have a problem.

 

[DirtyD79]

It's not just WWE or wrestling in general it's all of entertainment. It's that ever since the fall of things like the Comics code in comics and the Hays Code in movies and TV we've seen the villains being allowed to have more realistic motivations than being evil simply for the sake of being evil. No more mustache twirling Dick Dastardly tying Penelope Pitstop to the train tracks simply because it's Tuesday or Cobra Commander wanting to dynamite his face onto the moon.

The reality is most real conflicts seldom are black and white. Look at CM Punk's character for a lot of his career. On the surface his stances against things like drugs and alcohol would make him a traditional babyface. The problem is his holier than thou tone is what made him a heel and even then fans still loved him for his skills.

Teddy Long and D-Lo Brown and later Rodney Mack did have a point that minorities weren't being given a fair shake in the WWE. The problem is they decided to beat people up. Rikishi later used the same logic in running over Stone Cold and was incensed that The Rock his fellow countryman didn't appreciate it. Like Teddy Long he felt the end justified the means. Some of the very people he intended to help didn't and certainly the people who got "the means" applied to them sure didn't either.

And then there's the matter that let's face it sometimes the bad guys are cooler than the good guys. People grew tired of the overgrown boy scouts of the rock n' wrestling era telling us to train say our prayers and eat our vitamins and falling for every stupid trick of the Saturday morning cartoon heels. That's what made Stone Cold Steve Austin great was he was allowed to be smart and fought the heels on their own terms plus he embraced the raunchy culture of the time. The Rock and RVD didn't do the aww shucks humble pie routine.

Plus we were teenagers and young adults. It's fun to feel rebellious like you're going against the grain at that age. Hell sometimes it's fun when you're older too. It's why John Cena grates on so many of the fans from the attitude era and why soon enough the current crop of kid fans once they get older will turn on him too just like we did on Hogan.

 

[Tommy G]

There are many reasons why current heels are not as hated as we would all like them to be.

One main reason is that the heels with real potential (Ziggler, Rhodes ect.) are not being utilized to there utmost. Ziggler in my opinion is in a perfect gimmick right now, because he stays in character even off the wrestling spotlight and with in interviews he still shows off the on screen arrogance he portrays as Dolph Ziggler. The problem is, he's not receiving the heel push, that in my opinion he deserves. Another example is what they should be doing with John Cena, who is in the right spotlight to be a heel. John Cena is still a baby face, yet the fans boo him and there are already t-shirts saying "Cena Sucks", just imagine seeing him coming into the ring and taking out the top face wrestlers by fighting dirty and interrupting their matches through-out the course of the weeks.

Another reason why heels are not fully hated is the way social media is now integrated into the WWE. Yeah, you may not like Alberto Del Rio when he wrestles, but how can you take him seriously when he's the nicest guy in his interviews? I remember watching an old aussie episode of 60 minutes with WCW wrestlers, and you Scott Steiner and other members of the nWo refusing the interviewers and practically abusing them. A true wrestling entertainer in my opinion has to withhold his on-screen persona on televised interviews and other events in order to keep that heel gimmick he portrays, its what makes you believe their character more in the WWE if they are the same person you see on other t-shows.

Another reason is the lack of pushing more controversial feuds. Controversial to the point of making you shocked that event even happened. Introducing more heel stables is a perfect idea. Just look at Evolution, they attacked The rock and sock connection and Goldberg, two huge face wrestlers/stables, and with-in that heel stable they created two face superstars which then created massive feuds resulting in a hatred towards them. Like when Randy Orton won the world title and they dropped him in the middle of his celebrating then beating down on him just when people were starting to cheer Randy Orton and recognize him as a face rather then a heel with Evolution, it was perfectly executed.

I just think certain Heels with potential need a good push and a good storyline feud with a well-loved baby face. Putting a Heel up against Cena, who is currently being booed, is clearly not a good idea. There are some good feuds brewing with proper potential, Wade vs Orton, at the moment I think it is building up but will become something decent. I am just hoping they turn Cena into a heel, which in my opinion is wayyyy long overdue.

 

[#CenaHeelTurn]

There is about to be a truly hated #Heel, and that is John Cena.

I agree with the OP. The biggest heels currently are Cole and Vickie. WWE needs true heels that are in the ring performing on a weekly basis.

Ziggler is a bigger #Heel than Miz, because Miz is a "cool heel" that a lot of people like. People hate Dolph more because 1. Vickie and 2. Dolph is lame in general.

Cena's turn will galvanize the fanbase (all the young girls) against him. There will be shots of girls crying, young boys throwing their headbands off, etc.

 

[Suibon]

It's because we know more about pro wrestling now than previous generations did (and assume more about pro wrestling about previous generations did - how else can you explain Cena's reaction?), and so we cannot conform too closely to what the WWE expects of us - face = love, heel = hate - without smirking at ourselves and thinking about the ultimate unreality of pro wrestling.