The Way To Make The Best Heels?

[Mudlup50]

I read an article stating that Triple H was the definition of a great heel. See most of the casuals will cheer and boo for who they're told. The IWC has their own opinions on everyone and certain people are much stronger. Triple H was previously hated on the IWC because he supposedly used his backstage power to get what he wanted, whether it was true or not it helped him become universally hated.

People on here are hating on Lesnar because he isn't there, by making the IWC hate the champion they're making him more hated.

It works both ways too, Ziggler got a lot of love from the majority of the IWC and now that he's face he's one of the most cheered for guys on the show!

I'm not saying it's the only way to do it, but I'm saying using the IWC correctly is needed in the modern WWE landscape. It is the difference between a 7 and a 9 in the modern WWE world.

Due to the crowd mentality at a Raw event it makes perfect sense. Say 75% of the crowd is casuals(kids, anybody who isn't a super fan), 15% are super fans(i.e. the IWC) and 10% are one off(like celebrities, or the breast cancer survivors recently). These are all estimates and I don't want people commenting saying no it's not because it's an estimate just so people understand what I'm saying. Anyway, 80%ish will cheer or boo for who the WWE says, about 15% cheer or boo for who they want...so if you take people they already cheer or boo and make the rest of the crowd react accordingly then you have a super over face or heel.

Proof: Ziggler and Triple H within the last year or so.


Then you have your old school heels like Miz and Rusev.

Aside from that just about every other heel gets mixed reactions. Case and point: Bray Wyatt, Cesaro, Damian Sandow. Or they get no reactions.

So do you agree? What other ways are there to get a heel super over?

 

[Richard Blonoff]

I'm not 100% sure what you are saying, but the best way to make a heel is to make the fans dislike you, or I should say dislike your actions. Due to the internet and the breaking of kayfabe, we will never have true oldschool heels anymore because we know at the end of the day heels and faces are just people. We know they aren't the characters they portray on TV, so it does make it harder.

When you are a heel though, the best way to get over as a heel is to immerse yourself in the character. Don't try to be the cool edgy nWo style heel, don't be a Ziggler(he was an awful heel) and try to get to get the fans to cheer you, go out there and do dickish things and believe that you are doing nothing wrong. I forget who said it, I think it was Mick Foley, but they said the most important thing a heel can do is believe they are right. Seth Rollins is currently one of the better heels in recent memory. He isn't trying to be cool, he is a coward who runs at the first sign of trouble, he uses numbers to his advantage and uses The Authority to do his bidding. He only attacks when his opponents don't suspect it. He isn't trying to make people like him, he is a total and complete coward and scumbag. He has no redeemable qualities, he makes me want to boo him. If you want to see how to make a good heel, look no further than Seth.

Another good heel at the moment is The Miz. Its crazy to think, but Hollywood Miz something that is finally working for him. I think it helps that the movie star gimmick plays into his real life background as a reality TV star, but Miz has found his niche finally. He has a stunt double for matches he doesn't want to wrestle, he genuinely believes he is a hotshot movie star, he believes he is better than everyone, he shit on his hometown when they were in Ohio recently. Nothing he does is redeemable. Nothing he does makes you want to like him. In my opinion, that is the sign of a good heel.

 

[Mudlup50]

I'm not 100% sure what you are saying, but the best way to make a heel is to make the fans dislike you, or I should say dislike your actions. Due to the internet and the breaking of kayfabe, we will never have true oldschool heels anymore because we know at the end of the day heels and faces are just people. We know they aren't the characters they portray on TV, so it does make it harder.

When you are a heel though, the best way to get over as a heel is to immerse yourself in the character. Don't try to be the cool edgy nWo style heel, don't be a Ziggler(he was an awful heel) and try to get to get the fans to cheer you, go out there and do dickish things and believe that you are doing nothing wrong. I forget who said it, I think it was Mick Foley, but they said the most important thing a heel can do is believe they are right. Seth Rollins is currently one of the better heels in recent memory. He isn't trying to be cool, he is a coward who runs at the first sign of trouble, he uses numbers to his advantage and uses The Authority to do his bidding. He only attacks when his opponents don't suspect it. He isn't trying to make people like him, he is a total and complete coward and scumbag. He has no redeemable qualities, he makes me want to boo him. If you want to see how to make a good heel, look no further than Seth.

Another good heel at the moment is The Miz. Its crazy to think, but Hollywood Miz something that is finally working for him. I think it helps that the movie star gimmick plays into his real life background as a reality TV star, but Miz has found his niche finally. He has a stunt double for matches he doesn't want to wrestle, he genuinely believes he is a hotshot movie star, he believes he is better than everyone, he shit on his hometown when they were in Ohio recently. Nothing he does is redeemable. Nothing he does makes you want to like him. In my opinion, that is the sign of a good heel.

To your confusion, it is kinda confusing what I'm saying I suppose. But I mean like, the best heels are the ones who use the IWC's hatred of them and then get the casuals to dislike them...if that makes sense xD

For example, Triple H was a good guy for the better part of his last 4-5 yearsish(don't remember how long but it was a good while). A lot of the IWC hated him then because they thought(I don't know if it's true so I leave it up for debate) he used his wife to make him a 13 time world champ. So when he finally on screen used his power to get what he wanted (Orton to be world champ) the IWC still got to hate him like they were, but also the casual fans got a reason to hate him...thus elevating him up so high that mostly everyone hated him. So when he came out, he came out to boos regardless.

Another example is Brock Lesnar. During his initial run he was a monster heel but when he left the fans genuinely crapped on his match. It showed he didn't have a love for the company, so the IWC never really forgave him for not loving the business. So it's now part of his gimmick. I see a lot of hate on this site from people who hate that he doesn't defend the title enough or he doesn't show up enough, yet that helps him be a better heel. The WWE is using that to make sure he gets more boos.

Even the Miz like you mention, the IWC used to crap on him because he was from reality TV and he isn't that good of a wrestler. So instead of trying to prove the IWC wrong, they embrace it and made Miz a better heel for it.

I don't know if that helps explain what I mean. But I feel like the IWC being so fickle hinders certain heels from getting over. Heels like Bray Wyatt and Cesaro. They are heels but the IWC love them, and so when they come out you get this mixed reaction.

On the opposite end of my point, Ziggler was a heel for years and the IWC loved him. When the WWE turned him face so the casual fans would cheer for him. Now he's one of the most over guys in the company.

Basically, if you want a guy superover in one direction, book him like the IWC see them. Or use an old school gimmick like you mentioned Seth Rollins does and Rusev is another example.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

No... the IWC are immaterial in getting a strong/best heel over. Triple H was over as a heel long before they had any influence over the product, or were even a "thing."

The fundamentals of making a great heel can be taught, but there is an innate quality that the best have... just like great career babyfaces have that can't be taught.

Triple H learned initially from arguably THE best heel of his era... Killer Kowalski. Go back and look at some of his stuff, he was a beast, far more than Lesnar is today... He was big, gruesome and plain nasty in his attitude and how he worked. He demanded and got fear, awe, respect and hatred in equal measure from the fans and exactly when required.

Triple H probably didn't study under him for more than a year, but in that time he would have picked up a lot and it showed from his earliest Jean Paul LeVesque matches, he knew how to carry himself to make him dislikable, how to rile the crowd if things were slow... little touches like the bow in his hair, the curtsy... but a lot of his heelness came straight from the Kowalski playbook... stomps, gouges, kicks and mocking... He then went straight into being around his other "idol" Ric Flair... not for long but long enough to pick up some more, how to pace the match, how to elicit sympathy as the heel and act cowardly when needed (Kowalski NEVER did this) and to tell more of the story and he worked with Regal for a short time, who still can do the best facial reactions of the business and taught him how to behave "superior" and gain that level of heat. All this is before he left for the WWF.

So by the time Hunter Hearst Helmsley came along he was very well versed in heel tactics, taught by what is generally agreed to be 3 of the best heels of all time and clicks in with Shawn, who while not quite on their level was able to help him use the other side... the innate talent and who Paul LeVesque was himself... the circle was complete the student became the master and a wrestling "Darth Vader" was born...

WWE is smart in how they are creating new heels organically in the main, and disregarding fan reactions. Rusev is being created and built using the oldest tropes in wrestling, there since the days of Fritz Von Erich goose-stepping around the ring. That he is a real Bulgarian, whose folks would have grown up behind the Iron Curtain only helps his character.

But look at what really makes Rusev a heel... his look and moveset is only a smaller part and the fact he "supports Russia" is only a minor part.

He is paired with a female manager who every hetero man on the planet would want to be with, to have in his corner...Even the Rock had to admit "she's smoking", yet she's with this hairy, mis-shapen guy... that is instant heel heat from 90% of the fans over 13... He is a Bulgarian who has "sold his soul" to America's most hated foe historically, even though they've never been to war properly...FOR A GIRL!!! That is more heel heat there... "He wouldn't be like this, running down 'Murica if not for that bitch" is something more than one redneck idiot has probably uttered. He is on paper a "super-athlete" and being pushed as one as well, more heel heat because he is beating some of the bigger stars but also everyone else... he is backing up he and Lana's boasts... and when the heat is turned up to Rock level... it's a tease... he leaves the ring...again more heat.

It's one one old school gimmick fueling Rusev but at least 5 being combined. Rusev is not much different to Jimmy Garvin or Randy Savage in that everyone wanted their Valet/Girlfriend... He's not much different to Kurt Angle or Chris Adams, in that his ring skill/prowess seems to be unmatched and isn't shy about it being rammed down your throat... He's not that far removed from Nikolai Volkoff, they just use the Putin picture instead of the anthem...

Then look at Bray Wyatt, Seth Rollins, Bo Dallas... every heel that has debuted since the Performance Centre/NXT under Trips and you see the same DNA... the same teachings given to Triple H by Kowalski, Flair, Regal and a mixture of tropes... the skill is how the talents then apply it to their own personalities.

Bray works because he is basically, an amazing actor... he has almost divorced himself from Windham Rotunda completely and become Bray Wyatt just as Stone Cold did. Someone like Dallas is using those lessons and that he isn't as natural as his brother to his advantage by playing a clearly insecure, but overly compensating "guru". Rollins is using the CM Punk and Triple H models to create a character who is going to win... and you're gonna hate it. Just like when it was Ric Flair escaping with those wins back in the day with the Dusty finish.

The other big thing that you can't deny about all these heels is the fans WANT to love them... just like they were desperate to cheer for Austin, The Rock, Angle... that's the other crucial part of great heels... the fans are denied that, or that their cheers are meaningless, insulting, offensive... "You WANT me to be your hero...but I don't WANT to be..." It's why Jericho's heel turn in 08 was so good and made him a classic heel... why Austin's alliance with Vince was so painful to the fans...

The IWC has NO input in any of this... it's going on in that Performance Centre, in cars up and down the country and backstage at arenas... the heels that don't work as well are the ones that are just mixing tropes indiscriminately. Fandango failed cos Johnny Curtis wasn't right for it... had they given it to Ray Lepern instead of Adam Rose... Fandango could be a massive heel today... Ziggler trying to be both a new Perfect and a new Rude didn't work... anyone in NXT right now is getting the benefit of being taught by Triple H and Regal... so they are being taught exactly how Trips was taught... and that is how to build a great heel... by fellow heels building you.

 

[MartialHorror]

The problem with making heels these days is that that the fans are so unpredictable. It's one thing to start cheering the Rock as a heel, because the Rock is incredibly cool and he was around when that kind of character was popular.

These days, fans started cheering for Damian Sandow randomly, even when he's not involved in the matches. Why are they doing this? To troll WWE? Is it because his current gimmick is over with the crowd? Is it because Sandow has been shat upon so badly by creative that fans want to see a more positive direction in his career? It's hard to say, but it's easy to accidentally make a heel whom fans will root for.

I think it comes down to whom the heels are feuding with. Pit Sandow against Ambrose, it's highly unlikely they will continue to support him. Pit Sandow against Sheamus, who fans seem to be tired of, then they'll choose Sheamus.

Sometimes just the right psychology can work though. Even though Cesaro's heel run since Wrestlemania was a big mistake in retrospect, there's no denying that he does it so well. Those smug facial expressions, the rejected Swings (which fans want) and his attitude makes him easy to hate, but in a good way.

 

[LBGetBack]

I feel like the concept of "the Authority" could be great for making heels. In 2014, most fans know the deal. But "the Authority" really IS running the show. Having them handpick people as their chosen ones and favoring them is a great idea. Thing is, they've only really done it for Orton, and now Rollins. Feels like they could go further with it, and pick a few more people to favor. If they pick the right people, the fans will really hate them. Orton was getting great heat when the Authority actually cared about him. And Rollins gets great heat as well.

 

[vampireblade]

I'm not 100% sure what you are saying, but the best way to make a heel is to make the fans dislike you, or I should say dislike your actions. Due to the internet and the breaking of kayfabe, we will never have true oldschool heels anymore because we know at the end of the day heels and faces are just people. We know they aren't the characters they portray on TV, so it does make it harder.

When you are a heel though, the best way to get over as a heel is to immerse yourself in the character. Don't try to be the cool edgy nWo style heel, don't be a Ziggler(he was an awful heel) and try to get to get the fans to cheer you, go out there and do dickish things and believe that you are doing nothing wrong. I forget who said it, I think it was Mick Foley, but they said the most important thing a heel can do is believe they are right. Seth Rollins is currently one of the better heels in recent memory. He isn't trying to be cool, he is a coward who runs at the first sign of trouble, he uses numbers to his advantage and uses The Authority to do his bidding. He only attacks when his opponents don't suspect it. He isn't trying to make people like him, he is a total and complete coward and scumbag. He has no redeemable qualities, he makes me want to boo him. If you want to see how to make a good heel, look no further than Seth.

Another good heel at the moment is The Miz. Its crazy to think, but Hollywood Miz something that is finally working for him. I think it helps that the movie star gimmick plays into his real life background as a reality TV star, but Miz has found his niche finally. He has a stunt double for matches he doesn't want to wrestle, he genuinely believes he is a hotshot movie star, he believes he is better than everyone, he shit on his hometown when they were in Ohio recently. Nothing he does is redeemable. Nothing he does makes you want to like him. In my opinion, that is the sign of a good heel.

This right here i can tell you from personal experience as im a heel manager just immerse yourself in the character i allow myself to be the steve dave character completely (yes kevin smith fans im a huge fan myself so i used the name) i use alot of i guess oldschool tatics in that first sight of trouble i run if shaun tempers isn't there to protect me i run and most of the time he is right behind me i was once told the best way to make the crowd believe is to believe yourself step from behind the barricade learn what works and what doesnt and truth is i study guys like jimmy hart and jim cornette bobby heenan because what is old has truly become new again and crowds eat it up they truly hate me i was in walmart the other day and some lady was like i hate u as steve dave ur so mean and vile i stayed in character for the convo as well so hopefully she thinks im a dick in real life too haha

 

[Mustang Sally]

The problem with making heels these days is that that the fans are so unpredictable. It's one thing to start cheering the Rock as a heel, because the Rock is incredibly cool and he was around when that kind of character was popular.

That's for sure. Consider the consecutive Wrestlemanias in which The Rock opposed John Cena. In the promos leading to both matches, while Cena was soft-spoken and respectful of his foe, Rock was loud, arrogant and insulting.....the classic traits of a bad guy......yet, the fans cheered Rock and booed Cena.

The definitions of face and heel have changed.....sometimes, they're reversed. For some reason, we often worship the bad guy. It used to be easy to become a heel; all you had to do was perpetrate some evil deed on a good guy....and you were there.

Now, we have a lot of folks who "hate" John Cena, a guy who never lets the fans down, as far as his (kayfabe) moral compass or how he handles situations. This makes about as much sense as cheering Brock Lesnar. As a bad guy, we should boo him (imho) for his mercenary status in WWE....as well as all the dastardly stuff he does in the ring. Instead, when he fights John Cena, we cheer Brock. Go figure.

Still, pro wrestling has adapted to these curious events of the past decade; the industry has come up with the concept of 'tweeners..... an amazing character blend of good and bad qualities which, depending on the performer, can emerge at the most unlikely of instances. An entire new dimension has been added to the product with the invention of the 'tweener concept, and the effect is terrific. It keeps us guessing, and in a form of entertainment in which so many fans claim to be bored, because everything is so predictable.....the 'tweeners sometimes turn plot lines on their heads, which is great.

But, the classic manner of making heels still works; hit a good guy over the head with a heavy object while he's standing in ring center, spouting his message of good will toward all men, women & children......and he's on his way.

What he does to maintain his ultra-badness will determine the success or failure of his character turn.

 

[sanefan_har]

Here's my 2 cents (apologize for any repeats).

From my understanding, the OP wants to figure out why people like Ryback, Del Rio and Cesaro do not get the heat levels they should get.

In the case of a guy like Del Rio, it's his mannerisms inside the ring. For the most part, he looks (or looked) like he was rehearsing something someone told him to do, rather than take the ball and make the most of it. The only legitimate heat he ever got was when he cashed in on CM Punk and that match at Payback vs Ziggler, and both times it was because the opponent was the fan favorite, and in the case of Ziggler, the Chicago crowd loved him for reasons mentioned earlier in the thread.

Not much more can be said of Curtis Axel, the only reason he got any reaction was because he was paired with Heyman and was smartly booked in a triple threat match. Then he went downhill, when people saw that they were more invested in a mop standing sideways than his uncharismatic promos and that disgusting laugh of his.

As for Cesaro, his current heel turn seems forced, he doesn't have a reason to be heel, neither do the fans, they don't seem to understand why he attacks a face after a match, since he offers no explanation, and even if he does, it's something incredulously generic, to the point a fan would stop bothering about him.

As for Ryback, he turned heel to a loud ovation of cheers as opposed to the intended reaction. Then he went nowhere, and got injured.

In all these cases, the one common factor is that they don't (or didn't) get any reaction.

What would've worked for these guys was adding layers to their characters. An average human being has at least 5-6 different sides of his character and persona. These superstars on the other hand, don't seem to have any persona whatsoever. Having multiple top brand cars, or speaking in 5 languages is irritating at best, and that's not what a heel does, unless you are Bo Dallas (who seems to know how to make that work in his favor.)

 

[mkw1962]

I think a good heel is someone who gets on the fans nerves like Rusev, he never loses and makes fun of America. Brock is a good heel as well he is hardly ever there and never loses. HHH is a great heel he takes advantage of his power and gets on your nerves when he and Steph make fun of the good guys. Here is the one thing that they all have in common they are bullies and that is what does it, remember Ryback when he first turned bad after the feed me more thing. He would beat up the little guys, that is what makes a great heel, A BULLY.

 

[FromGlasgow]

I think to truly be a good heel you still need some kind of appeal about you to be watchable, I always kind of liked the heels even though I was rooting for the faces when I was a young child watching in the 80s I enjoyed watching heels like Piper, Iron Sheik, Dibiase, Perfect and Heenan and in the NWA guys like Flair and the Horsemen and watching heels now like Rusev, Orton or Batista for example I don't think it would matter to me what they done or said to get over as a heel I still would not root against or boo them as those guys matches feel too dull to watch or care about the outcome for me.

 

[kadroan]

I feel like the concept of "the Authority" could be great for making heels. In 2014, most fans know the deal. But "the Authority" really IS running the show. Having them handpick people as their chosen ones and favoring them is a great idea. Thing is, they've only really done it for Orton, and now Rollins. Feels like they could go further with it, and pick a few more people to favor. If they pick the right people, the fans will really hate them. Orton was getting great heat when the Authority actually cared about him. And Rollins gets great heat as well.

That would be great. It definitely would help some wrestlers they want to be heel so bad like Cesaro and Barrett from getting cheered. They definitely fit the profile of the types of guys in The Authority.

 

[whoopin' ass]

You need a hook like people have said but you also need to be a heel. Don't try and be cool, don't try to out talk the face - just go out there and so whatever it takes to win/beat down your opponent. That's part of the issue I have with Wyatt - I can't take him seriously as a threat because he is talks and talks but never actually gets the job done. Edge was the best heel in the past decade and when he was at his best, the crowds bought him 100%. He embraced being heel, he wanted people to boo him and it worked. Not saying you can't be heel and not have the catch phrase or have shirts to sell as Edge did but in the end, the heel is the bad guy and those typically don't sell the merch or have people quoting them. If you want to he a heel, you need to get people to hate you and not cheap heat like insulting their town. Piper did it, Edge did it and they were great.