WWE Isnt 'Wrestling'

[H33LTurn]

Pardon if I'm not the most articulate person on this site but I really like to speak in a way that just gets to the point. Now if you know me you know I'm not a fan of the indy scene. I've tried to watch ROH a couple times but it just didnt interest me. That being said I never criticized ROH for its lack of fancy HD sets, lack of famous wrestlers, or lack of backstage segments. I simply stopped watching and started watching WWE, which has what I'm interested in. Now people have called me a pop culture freak in the sense that I like all the drama you see on shows like Jersey Shore and I like it even more when it gets used in a wrestling storyline. There are those out there that have been criticizing WWE more and more for not being about "wrestling". For not letting certain superstars do the silly acrobatics they used to do in a bingo hall in front of 100 fans. For having superstars like Randy Orton who they claim has no personality yet they praise a guy like Daniel Bryan who by the definition of charisma (someone had it as their sig on this site) really has none. A character like Daniel Bryan would not survive on a show like Jersey Shore, or Family Guy, or anything popular that people are currently watching. They say that theres not enough ring action or that guys like The Miz, a former WWE Champion, cant wrestle. Now, ignoring the fact that it would be impossible for the WWE to hire someone who literally does not know what they're doing in the ring, lets look into this. So Miz's ring style is different than the majority of the superstars we see on Tv. But its not the first time we see someone who isnt an in ring technician. Randy Orton, Triple H, Batista, John Cena, and The Big Show have all reached significant success in the industry without having to learn 20 variations of a kick.

Another issue today's IWC fans express is WWE favoring backstage segments and storylines over what happens in the ring. But if you take a look at when wrestling was at its height WWE was never about wrestling over storylines and charcters. In the 80's Hulk Hogan, a guy who still today is criticized for his limited moveset (even though a match from Japan that made it to youtube proved he can actually wrestle a match like Punk or DB) was the top star of the company. During the Attitude Era, matches lasted for about 2-3 minutes. The big storylines werent about what was going to happen in the ring. Austin vs Vince, The MInistry, DX, were all about personal issues with someone. They used the ring as a medium for taking frustration out on eahcother, but while they were outside of the ring it was evident that the feuding participants hated eachother and were willing to attack eachother outside of a match. WWE isnt on sportscenter. After RAW there isnt a panel of former wrestlers talking about who scored more punches against their opponent, comparing the different ages of the superstars, or talking about how one superstars is more athletically gifted than another. What I'm getting at is that what goes on in the WWE isnt judged as a SPORT by anyone except for the members of the IWC. The rest of the world looks at it as entertainment. Now lets sum things up. Certain internet fans apparently dislike WWE because:

-There are backstage segments
-Its entertainment over wrestling ability
-All of the wrestlers arent ring technicians
-Some people on the roster have notable fame outside the ring


All I'm saying is if you trully dislike WWE why wouldnt you watch ROH instead and leave the WWE alone. ROH and the other indy companies arent what WWE is about. Instead of trying to judge WWE on a basis that it simply doesnt even attempt to fit, do like I did while watching ROH and just walk away and watch what entertains you. You know this logic doesnt work anywhere else. You cant go to school and complain that they dont teach you about video games. You cant watch Family Guy and complain that it lacked a proper story sequence like the ones HBO series' have. South Park, while its main characters are children thinking like children, is in no way intended to be for people who enjoy wholesome family entertainment. They just use the "children" as a way of making their crude humor even funnier. And WWE, while it may have a ring set up, is mostly about entertainment. They just use the ring as a medium for making their characters seem important. Now on to my questions:

Why do people try to judge the WWE for its lack of emphasis on ring technicians and wrestling when its clearly always been about entertainment first?

Why dont those people just watch indy wrestling if they dislike WWE's business approach so much?

Any further discussion is welcome.

 

[BaconBits]

Any successful entity is going to have haters. Funny thing is, these people who decry basically everything that the WWE does are the ultimate hypocrites. They "hate" the product" yet, they're watching it anyways.

This mindset isn't limited to sports entertainment, though. It spans all interests.

We're all guilty of it sometimes. I know I hate on shit that's popular simply because it's popular. In my case it's music. I hate on most music that gets major radio airplay. I find it to be talentless in most cases.

I'm sure you have shit you like to hate on too.

 

[ColtCabunny]

The WWE is about wrestling. As long as a contested match up is going to be the culmination of a storyline in that company, the WWE will be a wrestling company.

I can't speak for the "IWC"... but I can tell you I wouldn't want to watch the WWE if all I were watching was a bunch of people who have similar in ring talent. CM Punk, Dolph Ziggler, Alberto Del Rio, Daniel Bryan, Mark Henry... none of these guys are like each other on the mic or in the ring and I would be bored if they were all alike or didn't have any ring psychology.

I'm not disagreeing with you though, and like I said: I can't speak for the "IWC"... but there are things to complain about when it comes to the WWE and wrestling will be one of them so when I complain about bad matches its because sometimes the results don't service the expectations that I, or others had for it.

For instance,

Rey Mysterio vs CM Punk @ Wrestlemania
Randy Orton vs CM Punk @ Wrestlemania
lack of build up and support for R-Truth & Miz when they faced Rock & Cena

Noted lack of credible diva's division talent & storylines along with creative having little to nothing for newer talent...

Do you get my point without me having to cite more examples?

How would you feel if they gave Cena & the Rock only 11 minutes to wrestle at Mania and Cena went over clean? It would feel like the Rock wasn't much of a credible opponent for Cena. All of that hype would have fallen flat.

 

[Barbedwire Ropes]

What is the exact point of your post? It makes little to no sense.

For the topic at hand, let's just go with the basics.

WWE, World WRESTLING Entertainment. That right there proves your entire point to be null. Not only that but every week on WWE RAW, Smackdown, Superstars and NXT plus monthly on WWE Pay-Per-View we get to see what are called, wrestling matches between two wrestlers. Sure, ROH has them, TNA has them, CZW has them (sort of) and every indy fed everywhere has them too.

WWE is wrestling, they may not broadcast constant 60 Minute Iron Man matches six times a week but they are still a wrestling company. The entire essence of their entertainment is focused on bouts that take place in a squared circle (I tried to avoid using the word wrestling there). Every storyline, backstage segment, commercial and promo is intended to have some sort of payoff, either near or distant, that takes place in a wrestling ring.

 

[Chess]

Why do people try to judge the WWE for its lack of emphasis on ring technicians and wrestling when its clearly always been about entertainment first?

I agree with you to some extent, WWE has always focused on the entertainment side of things however I believe they used to take more pride in the wrestling side of things than they do now. Primarily people who watch WWE watch it for wrestling. I would guess that anytime someone goes to watch WWE they talk about going to watch a wrestling show and not to watch the piss poor comedy sketches or boring back and forths between HHH and Mr Laryngitus.

I think the problem you have is if you were to judge the WWE solely on the entertainment side of things you would more likely get a lot more complaints about the product. Why? Because the entertainment is Shit! WWE is great a certain things. They are great at video packages, they are great at marketing, they are great with the production and overall scale of some of their events but they lack in both entertainment and wrestling.

I like WWE to some extent. I enjoy some wrestlers like Ziggler, Orton and Daniel Bryan because these guys can put on great matches and have great ring psychology but when I have to watch a Zack Ryder/Kane match I just want to turn off. Add to that the ridiculousness of the womens division, the commentary and the shocking humour (or lack thereof) then you have a worsening product.

I for one just prefered the WWF/E in the past when we could witness epic matches with Kurt Angle, Edge, Christian, Shawn Micaheals, The Hardys etc as well as the entertainment value of guys like The Rock, Stone Cold, HHH.

You need to realise that without the wrestling WWE would not exist and that is why Wrestling will always be in their name. Lets just hope Punk stops claiming to be the best wrestler ever when in reality he isn't even in the top 10 wrestling now.

Why dont those people just watch indy wrestling if they dislike WWE's business approach so much?

I think because we do enjoy the spectacle as well as the wrestling and most of these Indy shows have no production values and really do look bad. I have tried to watch some of the ROH PPV's that received epic reviews but despite some of the wrestling being great I found myself becoming disinterested due to the lack of crowd, decent camera work and porr production. TNA is improving all the time and if they can have more shows like the last two Wembley shows and add some pyro and a better sound system thenmaybe, just maybe some WWE viewers and dirtsheets may take them more seriously or simply review them fairly.

Any further discussion is welcome.

I like Brodus 'Funkasaurus' Clay as he is both entertaining and will destroy some people given the chance as he can actually wrestle.

 

[Headman]

Vince himself would admit that the WWE has always focused more on the entertainment side of the business, but make no mistake the guys in the ring are still wrestlers and still take pride in their craft. Some guys embrace the talking points and put over the fact that it's an entertainment company, but those same guys still know if the wrestling aspect is neglected all together the product will suffer. After all, the movie business is about entertainment, but you can't sell a big budget action movie if your stunts look like crap. I think some members of the IWC are hyper critical when it comes to the wrestling side of the WWE and usually don't know what the hell they're talking about. They've convinced themselves that CM Punk carried Cena to a 5 star match, an argument that makes the poster look foolish. While the things done in ROH are entertaining, they wouldn't fly in the mainstream which is exactly why the WWE isn't doing it. Guys like Punk and Daniel Bryan didn't come in and work the style they worked in ROH, they adjusted to the WWE's style because they know that's what plays in large arenas and television. Fans can't process a 100 moves a minute, they need every move to flow naturally and make sense. If a guy in the indies takes 3 Vertabreakers and is then finished off by a top rope curb stomp that makes every other hold completely unbelievable and it's just too much. I remember when Jericho got to the WWE people in the company where saying he needed to learn how to wrestle their style. A few years later someone asked Jericho how he felt about making the transition to "WWE" Style. Jericho replied... "It's not WWE style. It's main event style". And he was right.

 

[PlayTheGameHHH]

What are they then? There's not a name on the planet that could disassociate them from wrestling. If you ask someone who's somewhat familiar with the company what WWE is all about they're not going to say "WWE is a Global Entertainment Company" are they? They're going to say it's a WRESTLING company. Vince can try and try but it will ALWAYS be wrestling.

 

[H33LTurn]

I think some of you might have misinterpreted me on this one, and its completely fine since I understand the point isnt that clear. I never denied that people in the WWE wrestle.... you know...in a ring, the one thing that is obvious when you watch RAW on Monday Night. What I'm saying is that theres more to it than that and that certain "fans" just come off as cynics when they talk about WWE. The different styles, superstars, and segments irk them so much even though they themselves chose to watch the show and not the indy stuff thats practically made for their tastes.

Simply put, some people have a marginalized mindset towards wrestling, which is nothing to be ashamed off, but trying to compare the WWE that has so much variation to the indy scene where all a guy needs to do is be able to mat wrestle to get over is just wrong. WWE is a bunch of storylines that culminate into a match, thats what I'm saying. There needs to be a balance of both, you cant criticize WWE for sticking with the fan favorites and the guys who have "the look" over the guys who can mat wrestle the best. Its like bashing Big Show for not being able to wrestle a CM Punk caliber match and claiming that hes worthless even though he has his own way of doing things in the ring and can make a connection with the crowd.

 

[H33LTurn]

What is the exact point of your post? It makes little to no sense.

For the topic at hand, let's just go with the basics.

WWE, World WRESTLING Entertainment. That right there proves your entire point to be null. Not only that but every week on WWE RAW, Smackdown, Superstars and NXT plus monthly on WWE Pay-Per-View we get to see what are called, wrestling matches between two wrestlers. Sure, ROH has them, TNA has them, CZW has them (sort of) and every indy fed everywhere has them too.

WWE is wrestling, they may not broadcast constant 60 Minute Iron Man matches six times a week but they are still a wrestling company. The entire essence of their entertainment is focused on bouts that take place in a squared circle (I tried to avoid using the word wrestling there). Every storyline, backstage segment, commercial and promo is intended to have some sort of payoff, either near or distant, that takes place in a wrestling ring.

I agree with you, WWE is a wrestling company. I think some people just cant wrap their fingers around accepting it as such. They want one type of character, one type of moveset, and one type of match. I'm not denouncing WWE as a wrestling company, I'm just saying what goes on in the WWE doesnt fit other individuals' definition of the word "wrestling". What they consider wrestling is what goes on in the indy scene, whether it be the non-limited movesets or anything else. I'm just saying there has to be entertainment and WWE wouldnt be entertaining without variety. It seems like so many IWC members hate that variety and and have a one track mind as to what WWE should be doing.

 

[H33LTurn]

What are they then? There's not a name on the planet that could disassociate them from wrestling. If you ask someone who's somewhat familiar with the company what WWE is all about they're not going to say "WWE is a Global Entertainment Company" are they? They're going to say it's a WRESTLING company. Vince can try and try but it will ALWAYS be wrestling.

First of all I dont know why you're criticizing Vince since hes the owner of the company and can make it to be whatever the hell he pleases. Second, its not about disassociating the company from wrestling, its that some people act like wrestling has to be this incredibly marginalized concept with only in ring action that is solely based on the technical and submission styles of wrestling as opposed to being a powerhouse or a brawler. They act like wrestlers have to look talk and fight one way and one way only. What I'm saying applies to people like you who want to demonize Vince for catering to the entertainment side of things a little bit more than the wrestling. My point is there is something out there for you guys who dont enjoy what Vince has done or what is trying to do with the company. People act like Vince just woke up one day and decided that storylines come before the in ring action and thats not the case. Since Vince took over its been nothing but entertainment, storylines, interviews and all the such. Hes not separating the company from wrestling because as you said, the name will always be World Wrestling Enertainment, but hes not ignoring that last E in the name that so many fans seem to forget about. They are a sports entertainment company

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

I've never been afraid to admit that I enjoy the WWE for the storylines in general, but I can understand why the common adult WWE fan, who grew up on a more simple wrestling format, would be frustrated with promos and backstage segments. I've never been ashamed to admit that the WWE is a soap opera for men, written and produced by people who are used to working on TV shows and movies.

The WWE got the highest ratings they've ever gotten when they started focusing more on the story and less on the wrestling, during the attitude era. It only makes sense that they would continue to run with this formula, especially when other wrestling promotions who've reverted back to the "old school" style of wrestling are light years behind WWE in ratings, money, and awareness.

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

With this thread you come of as a guy who can't take it if someone criticizes WWE. Is WWE your company ? Are you a WWE employee ? Some fans just come as like they are being paid by Vince to be a WWE fan. During the 90s the fans of this sort were so less hence it was the most successful decade in Pro-Wrestling history. Most people watched both companies WCW and WWF, applauded on all the good things they did and criticized them for bad. They didn't have a narrow mindset that WWF was the only Wrestling company or WCW was the only Wrestling company. Who are you to say that we can't state our opinion? Either good or bad everybody wil have their opinion. Pro-Wrestling etc have always been like this. some like certain things on a show and some don't.

For example take Wrestlezone forums as example.People come here to discuss about Wrestling.Some users agree on certain things and some disagree. If everybody started to agree on everything there will be no discussion. I watch both WWE and TNA and give my unbiased opinion without being a "Mark" for a certain company.

A person worse than a critic is a "Mark" (A Biased one-sided fan,you are a WWE mark for example not a "Pro-Wrestling" Fan ). And WWE will continue to be a "Wrestling" company as long they have "Wrestling" in their name. World WRESTLING Entertainment.

I bet you like Muppets on a WRESTLING show, Natalya farting and Santino using the "Cobra".

 

[Serious Mozzarella]

With this thread you come of as a guy who can't take it if someone criticizes WWE. Is WWE your company ? Are you a WWE employee ? Some fans just come as like they are being paid by Vince to be a WWE fan.

Or maybe the guy just wanted to drive discussion, you know, on a discussion forum.

During the 90s the fans of this sort were so less hence it was the most successful decade in Pro-Wrestling history.

I think people are just more aware of what others think about the product, because the internet is now a household concept. Back then, people had magazines and word-of-mouth to go on. It's sad, but when everyone you know is bashing a product you like, you're much less likely to continue investing time into it.

Further, wrestling became a trend back in the late '90s. Trends die. It's the nature of the beast.

Lastly, fans were probably more divided than they are now, considering fans back then were a part of the Monday Night Wars. Fans would give their hard-earned money to a company they hate so they can feel like rebels, holding up a sign promoting the competition.

Most people watched both companies WCW and WWF, applauded on all the good things they did and criticized them for bad. They didn't have a narrow mindset that WWF was the only Wrestling company or WCW was the only Wrestling company. Who are you to say that we can't state our opinion? Either good or bad everybody wil have their opinion. Pro-Wrestling etc have always been like this. some like certain things on a show and some don't.

This only tells me that you weren't actually around during the MNW. People lost their shit over Eric Bischoff reading off Raw results on the air.

Even after all that shit, no, most people didn't watch both companies. They aired their shows at exactly the same time, and I guarantee you most people weren't interested enough to tape the other show in another room. They'd just watch the promotion they preferred.

For example take Wrestlezone forums as example.People come here to discuss about Wrestling.Some users agree on certain things and some disagree. If everybody started to agree on everything there will be no discussion.

Yeah. So why are you giving the OP shit for starting a discussion?

A person worse than a critic is a "Mark" (A Biased one-sided fan,you are a WWE mark for example not a "Pro-Wrestling" Fan ). And WWE will continue to be a "Wrestling" company as long they have "Wrestling" in their name. World WRESTLING Entertainment.

Wow, now you're just being a presumptuous asshole.

I bet you like Muppets on a WRESTLING show, Natalya farting and Santino using the "Cobra".

I don't understand what any of this has to do with your, or his argument. Are you saying your argument is more valid because he prefers a show that features silly, slapstick comedy?

Or are you one of those people who prides himself on watch mature shows like TNA, that swear, hit people with chairs, and do other mature things for mature people like yourself?

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

Or maybe the guy just wanted to drive discussion, you know, on a discussion forum.

Really ? And I just stated my opinion, your point ?

I think people are just more aware of what others think about the product, because the internet is now a household concept. Back then, people had magazines and word-of-mouth to go on. It's sad, but when everyone you know is bashing a product you like, you're much less likely to continue investing time into it.

Further, wrestling became a trend back in the late '90s. Trends die. It's the nature of the beast.

Nope, WWE just has more "Brainwashed" fans then before.

Lastly, fans were probably more divided than they are now, considering fans back then were a part of the Monday Night Wars. Fans would give their hard-earned money to a company they hate so they can feel like rebels, holding up a sign promoting the competition.

Fans were and will always be split as different people like different things.

This only tells me that you weren't actually around during the MNW. People lost their shit over Eric Bischoff reading off Raw results on the air.

Now who is being a "presumptuous asshole" ?

Even after all that shit, no, most people didn't watch both companies. They aired their shows at exactly the same time, and I guarantee you most people weren't interested enough to tape the other show in another room. They'd just watch the promotion they preferred.

Just look at the ratings,it proves all. 1995,1996 RAW was ahead and beating WCW Nitro in ratings then some fans started splitting 1997 and 1998 Fans became more intrested in WCW. RAW lost ratings and WCW Nitro was beating RAW for 84 consecutive weeks. Is it coincidence that when WWF lost fans,WCW gained fans ? Fans were split and they liked WCW more at the moment so they switched to WCW. Proves those were the same fans who came back in 1999 when WWF started beating WCW in ratings again. People switch the channels in-between the commercials too you know ?

 

[evantay26]

Do you mean its not wrestling in the traditional sense, like Greco-Roman? If not then i guess your saying they aren't as focused on wrestling as before. Fair.

 

[H33LTurn]

With this thread you come of as a guy who can't take it if someone criticizes WWE. Is WWE your company ? Are you a WWE employee ? Some fans just come as like they are being paid by Vince to be a WWE fan.

It not that I cant take it if someone criticizes the WWE, if you're a true fan and something bugs you believe me I'm a huge proponent of the first amendment, but if you're criticizing WWE because its not like ROH in the sense that big guys get pushes on their looks alone, not everybody has a spectacular technical moveset, and company men like The Miz get treated right then you just dont get the bigger picture.

Who are you to say that we can't state our opinion? Either good or bad everybody wil have their opinion. Pro-Wrestling etc have always been like this. some like certain things on a show and some don't.

There are logical and illogical opinions. A logical opinion would be along the lines of "WWE is better than TNA because the characters are more interesting" or something of the sort. But it is illogical to hold the WWE to a standard it doesnt want to satisfy. There is indy wrestling out there for indy fans. I'm just saying dont bring your taste for indy to the WWE section if you're going to treat WWE like it should be more like ROH. Basically if you want strictly smaller guys doing greco roman or technical wrestling go watch ROH and leave the WWE alone. They're obviously trying to satisfy an aaudience unlike yourself and you just come off as foolish if you try to compare indy wrestling to main event WWE wrestling. One is concerned with creating well rounded athletes in a ring and the other is concerned with getting mentioned on ESPN or getting an interview on a late night talk show. Take this for example, I dont watch college basketball. To me its not the same as the NBA and it will never be as exciting to watch. Am I still a fan of basketball in general, yes, but I prefer the main event over the minor leagues so instead of boring college ball fans to death by criticizing the games I instead stick to watching the NBA.

For example take Wrestlezone forums as example.People come here to discuss about Wrestling.Some users agree on certain things and some disagree. If everybody started to agree on everything there will be no discussion. I watch both WWE and TNA and give my unbiased opinion without being a "Mark" for a certain company.

Which is exactly what I'm doing. You think I made this post because I thought everyone would agree with me? Hell no. And do you think people will cease to discuss things related to the WWE if more fans understood that WWE is sports entertainment at its core. Of course not. You seem to be misunderstanding the point. If we got certain people to just stop watching WWE since its clearly not for them we'd get less "But I dont like Randy Orton because hes boring in the ring boo hoo hoo" and we'd get more, "How can Randy bring his character to the next level at this stage of his career".

A person worse than a critic is a "Mark" (A Biased one-sided fan,you are a WWE mark for example not a "Pro-Wrestling" Fan ). And WWE will continue to be a "Wrestling" company as long they have "Wrestling" in their name. World WRESTLING Entertainment.

So let me get this straight, I seem to be a bad fan because instead of going to the ROH section and pestering them over how boring I think their shows are I go to the show I enjoy the most and watch/criticize that?

I bet you like Muppets on a WRESTLING show, Natalya farting and Santino using the "Cobra".

I dont see what this has to do with anything. This is whats wrong with some of you more ignorant fans on this site. You take the worst of the worst and try to compare it to your mediocre. Whenever someone says they want the Attitude Era back people immediately say "Ohh, you want to see people giving birth to hands?" instead of saying "ohh you want to see characters like Stone Cold and The Rock again". Just because I like entertainment doesnt mean I like stupid cartoonish storylines.

 

[anthonymclaughlin]

A person worse than a critic is a "Mark" (A Biased one-sided fan,you are a WWE mark for example not a "Pro-Wrestling" Fan ). And WWE will continue to be a "Wrestling" company as long they have "Wrestling" in their name. World WRESTLING Entertainment.
What's wrong with being a "Mark" are you so jaded that your genuinely annoyed when someone can get emotionally invested in the show? Hell i'm definitely a Sheamus mark I loved him as a heel i love him now as a face and i'll probably still love him when he's a heel again.

I bet you like Muppets on a WRESTLING show, Natalya farting and Santino using the "Cobra".[/QUOTE]
I loved the muppets ep pissed my pants throughout most of it, the cobra is a comedy move, one i happen to enjoy. Natalya farting i find disrespectful to a professional athlete .

 

[ProWrestlingFan]

It not that I cant take it if someone criticizes the WWE, if you're a true fan and something bugs you believe me I'm a huge proponent of the first amendment, but if you're criticizing WWE because its not like ROH in the sense that big guys get pushes on their looks alone, not everybody has a spectacular technical moveset, and company men like The Miz get treated right then you just dont get the bigger picture.

1.)Who is talking about movesets ? I don't care if someone does 1000 moves or 10 moves. I will like whomever's moveset I prefer.

2.) I don't care if the guy is a Heavyweight or a Cruiserwiight. I like Hulk Hogan,Kevin Nash,HHH,etc but I also like Chris Jericho,Dean Malenko,William Regal,etc. Don't care if they are small or big I like their Wrestling style.I don't care if Daniel Bryan does 100 moves I just don't like him.

3.)I don't care how any wrestler looks. Its Wrestling not modelling.

There are logical and illogical opinions. A logical opinion would be along the lines of "WWE is better than TNA because the characters are more interesting" or something of the sort. But it is illogical to hold the WWE to a standard it doesnt want to satisfy. There is indy wrestling out there for indy fans. I'm just saying dont bring your taste for indy to the WWE section if you're going to treat WWE like it should be more like ROH. Basically if you want strictly smaller guys doing greco roman or technical wrestling go watch ROH and leave the WWE alone.

Why you keep bringing ROH ? I haven't mentioned ROH is any of my posts. I don't even like ROH or indys.

"WWE is better than TNA because the characters are more interesting"

Wow,Some WWE fans just can't stop bashing TNA and they can't take it when some TNA fan bashes WWE. So you think Brodus Clay is much more intresting than Sting,etc ? Oh, because they are in TNA and you are just a WWE fan.Damn.

Which is exactly what I'm doing. You think I made this post because I thought everyone would agree with me? Hell no. And do you think people will cease to discuss things related to the WWE if more fans understood that WWE is sports entertainment at its core. Of course not. You seem to be misunderstanding the point. If we got certain people to just stop watching WWE since its clearly not for them we'd get less "But I dont like Randy Orton because hes boring in the ring boo hoo hoo" and we'd get more, "How can Randy bring his character to the next level at this stage of his career".

So you don't want Wrestling fans to express their opinions on Cena,Orton etc ? People want them to change their characters as they find it boring but I guess you don't ...

So let me get this straight, I seem to be a bad fan because instead of going to the ROH section and pestering them over how boring I think their shows are I go to the show I enjoy the most and watch/criticize that?

Again, I don't care about ROH.

You take the worst of the worst and try to compare it to your mediocre. Whenever someone says they want the Attitude Era back people immediately say "Ohh, you want to see people giving birth to hands?" instead of saying "ohh you want to see characters like Stone Cold and The Rock again".

Never complained about the Attitude Era so I don't know what you are talking about.

 

[H33LTurn]

I dont know when people are going to realize that playing dumb during arguments doesnt work out. Even if I have to explain everything again I will in a way that you cant deny.

1.)Who is talking about movesets ? I don't care if someone does 1000 moves or 10 moves. I will like whomever's moveset I prefer.

2.) I don't care if the guy is a Heavyweight or a Cruiserwiight. I like Hulk Hogan,Kevin Nash,HHH,etc but I also like Chris Jericho,Dean Malenko,William Regal,etc. Don't care if they are small or big I like their Wrestling style.I don't care if Daniel Bryan does 100 moves I just don't like him.

3.)I don't care how any wrestler looks. Its Wrestling not modelling.

So then I obviously wast referring to you and theres no reason for you to be offended.

Why you keep bringing ROH ? I haven't mentioned ROH is any of my posts. I don't even like ROH or indys.

Then I am not referring to you.

Wow,Some WWE fans just can't stop bashing TNA and they can't take it when some TNA fan bashes WWE. So you think Brodus Clay is much more intresting than Sting,etc ? Oh, because they are in TNA and you are just a WWE fan.Damn.

No ones criticizing TNA. Its not my thing and I was just providing an example to contrast my following example with.

So you don't want Wrestling fans to express their opinions on Cena,Orton etc ? People want them to change their characters as they find it boring but I guess you don't. ...Must be a new fan.

Didnt I just say that we should get more questions about how Orton can evolve his character? Its one thing to criticize a guy because his character has gone stale like Cena's or Orton's, its another to bash him because its physically impossible for him to wrestle just like CM Punk or Daniel Bryan.

Again, I don't care about ROH.

Stop pulling out little bits of the argument and get the whole picture. I dont find ROH interesting, so instead of wasting ROH fans' time complaining I watch what I find genuinely interesting, not what allows me the opportunity to bicker more.

Never complained about the Attitude Era so I don't know what you are talking about.

You assumed that just because I like entertainment over mat wrestling that I automatically prefer Natalya's farts over a descent match. Your argument follows the same logic as someone who assumes that just because they want the attitude era back that they condone people giving birth to hands iover some wholesome family fun in the sense that they would rather watch the worst of what they find enjoyable over the best of what they dont completely like.

 

[TheAwesomeF'nTruth]

What is the exact point of your post? It makes little to no sense.

For the topic at hand, let's just go with the basics.

WWE, World WRESTLING Entertainment. That right there proves your entire point to be null. Not only that but every week on WWE RAW, Smackdown, Superstars and NXT plus monthly on WWE Pay-Per-View we get to see what are called, wrestling matches between two wrestlers. Sure, ROH has them, TNA has them, CZW has them (sort of) and every indy fed everywhere has them too.

WWE is wrestling, they may not broadcast constant 60 Minute Iron Man matches six times a week but they are still a wrestling company. The entire essence of their entertainment is focused on bouts that take place in a squared circle (I tried to avoid using the word wrestling there). Every storyline, backstage segment, commercial and promo is intended to have some sort of payoff, either near or distant, that takes place in a wrestling ring.

No WWE is entertainment, real wrestling would be college wrestling or olympic wrestling. WWE is a show where superstars pull off exaggerated moves and have scripts for entertainment purposes. If you didn't know Vince Mcmahon has been trying to remove the word "Wrestling" from the companies name for years, that's why "World Wrestling Entertainment" was simply changed to "WWE" in 2011.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Pro wrestling has NEVER been "WRESTLING". It's ALWAYS been marketable guys working an audience for an emotion response.

Here's the thing, before say, 1980, people thought it was real. Which meant you had to treat it more like a sport for it to sell and to work people. People ended up getting smart and thus, saying "this is 20 minute wristlock exchange is because it's real" doesn't work and people think 'God these guys fuckin suck".

Like Al Snow (who knows more about wrestling than anyone on here) said "It's always been the same, it's more sophisticated now, but it's still the wheel. You can't reinvent the wheel, you can't reinvent wrestling, just put spinners on it". Same shit. It's still wrestling. It's still the same exact fucking thing that it was in the 1800s when carnies would work the locals, it's still the same thing as when Gotch and Thesz and Sammartino wrestled. It's still the same as when Hogan and Austin and Rock wrestled.

People are just dumb. If you want it to go back to being 90% in the ring, you can plan on only watching wrestling via DVD because it'll die. It MUST adapt to the audience to survive and that's all they've done. Everything is sped up. The feuds, the matches, the character development. Back in the 70s you could be the same character your whole life, you could work a headlock for 30 minutes and people would buy it. They don't do that anymore because it DOESN'T SELL.

Companies that hold on to this bullshit concept of "WE ARE STILL WRESTLING" are delusional (spelled wrong I know). In ring stuff didn't sell in the 50s because people said "FIVE STAR MATCH AMAZING" it was because they said "man I really fuckin hate Buddy Rogers". Guess what, that's STILL why the product sells.

 

[xoxo French Kiss xoxo]

Why do people try to judge the WWE for its lack of emphasis on ring technicians and wrestling when its clearly always been about entertainment first?

WWE: World Wrestling Entertainment. Wrestling may be in the title still, but entertainment is what they strive for. The company strives to appeal to the masses, rather than just a small segment of viewers, hence why the WWE is a Global company with offices overseas, that does international tours.

Why dont those people just watch indy wrestling if they dislike WWE's business approach so much?

Because majority of people who dislike the WWE's business approach are fucking ******ed, and would rather bitch, moan, and complain about what the WWE isn't doing that sit back and enjoy the programming and take it for what its worth.

 

[1ToughSOB]

Your just figuring out now that the WWE isn't wrestling? neither is TNA to find real wrestling
you'd have to find a independent circuit, where they get no television time and just focus
more on in the ring action!

 

[D-Man]

First off, I understand where the original poster is coming from. On that note, I disagree completely and these fans that you speak of are 100% wrong. Let me explain why...

What they're basically saying is that professional wrestling, as opposed to any other sport and aspect of pop culture and entertainment, is not allowed to evolve. And the reason why is because they personally don't think it has or should. Well, that or they just choose to ignore it.

According to the points discussed, pro-wrestling = in-ring ability, less drama, more action. But here's a newsflash to all of the ignorant opinions out there: professional wrestling has evolved from a sporting contest into an entity of entertainment. What you see in today's product is wrestling, like it or not. So every time you say that the "WWE isn't wrestling", you're saying that the re-inventors of the wheel are lying about the product they're selling. THEY are the ones who changed the game. THEY are the ones who turned pro-wrestling from a fake sporting contest into an obvious form of entertainment. So, your biased opinions, while you're entitled to them, are 100% wrong based on fact.

 

[H33LTurn]

No WWE is entertainment, real wrestling would be college wrestling or olympic wrestling. WWE is a show where superstars pull off exaggerated moves and have scripts for entertainment purposes. If you didn't know Vince Mcmahon has been trying to remove the word "Wrestling" from the companies name for years, that's why "World Wrestling Entertainment" was simply changed to "WWE" in 2011.

This right here sums it up. I dont know how to put it more simple than this. I just think its ridiculous when fans bash every single person that doesnt have an Olympic style of wrestling in the WWE or doesnt have some bland personality whos inly edge is based off the fact they could do acrobatics in the indys.