WWE can't get babyfaces right

[akathelaw]

Over the past few years I've noticed WWE is having a lot of trouble making babyface stars, specifically in the main event. Even John Cena is suffering from WWE's inability to book likable heroes. The Miz, Alberto Del Rio, Dolph Ziggler and others have had setbacks in their careers from WWE deciding that they need to become faces. Usually not enough happens organically over a few weeks to actually get the crowd behind them. A slight attitude change is usually all we get.

The best heel-to-face transition lately has been Daniel Bryan, and it happened organically over the course of 2 years. I credit Bryan and his in-ring instincts for accomplishing this, but he had the best booking scenario to support the change. What are your opinions on this subject? Has WWE lost the ability to make likable stars and can really only make vile asshole characters?

 

[lil bitch Kid]

You just answered it perfectly. The best heel and face turns happen organically. In history, this has been the case. Rocky Mavia turned into the Rock because fans chanted "die Rocky Die", Austin turned face and Hart turned heel DURING A MATCH, because of fans. neither changed the characters, really, originally. Punk's face turn happened before Heyman hit him with the ladder. And, as you mentioned, no event can be attributed to Bryan being a face, except that fans cheered him. The problem happens when the E decides to jump the shark when the fans cheer or chant. Fans are saying 'We the People' with the Real Americans, and now there are rumors of turning Cesaro face. This would be a huge mistake.

 

[Redemption-2012]

I personally think face and heel turns should always be organic. You can force something on people and most smart people won't accept it. It does not take a genius to figure that one out. Daniel Bryan is a prime example of an organic face turn and a guy like say Sheamus is a pure example of a face turn, not so organic.

The problem with the WWE is that they are known for forcing something down the fans throat, and as a result ends up being a complete failure, case in point: Sheamus and ADR. This is a problem for the WWE, they develop their characters to be too cookie cutter and this results in them generally being booed by half the portion of most crowds. I don't you can really use John Cena as an example because his reaction is very natural and loud. You can understand the reaction he gets because it's his character.

 

[Jaredtyler]

what exactly is a face lol?
the universe is what keeps the faces low.
not the wwe, wwe tries to push someone but when they do the smart fans will
boo the faces, and keep faces from how they use to be.

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

I think the problem with the current faces is the crown pandering. It's why people didn't like the 2013 Rocky, it's why they didn't like ADR and it's why they don't like Cena. Naturally, a face should be cheered, but as I have said numerous times, we are in a fighting sport and therefore the "good guy" attitude and playing nice to others and stuff is just making it seem so fake, while, even it is PG, it should be a bit more aggrssive.
Cm Punk was an edgy babyface, he wasn't pandering to the crowd as much as others do, of course he would ask for their support at times, but nothing like Cena, Sheamus or the Rock. I remember Rocky cutting epic promo after epic promo during the AE, trash talking other Superstars etc, but in 2013, he was mostly this "spoiled kid" that Cena disgraced and came off like a bitch and therefore his promos were not funny.
Bryan is a special example, he made himself through the last 2 years to seem like an underdog babyface who needs our support, but he still doesn't pander to the crowd as much, although everyone says YES. There are a lot of stuff I could add here, but it's kinda late so I won't do that.

 

[Rhodes2TheFuture3313]

Same problem with the Miz. The Miz as a "FACE" should be the same unlikable guy he was as a heel. Because he's the MIZ. And he's AWWWWEESSOOOOOOOOOMMMEE!!!! The reason this Miz face turn has been unsuccessful is because people love to HATE the Miz. He should have remained the same COCKY guy he's always been. I disagree w/Dolph Ziggler. I believe his Face turn has been a success. Ziggler is still a top merchandise seller. He still puts on the same quality 5 star matches and he still loses more than he wins. Dolph's still got the cocky attitude and still has kept on mannerisms that he had as a heel. People like Ziggler. What they/we don't like is the WWE keeping the WHC off of him when he should have had a legit run. We get it Del Rio's been reliable, but it's time for a change. Hopefully RVD or Sandow walk out of Battleground WHC.

 

[Slash-LN]

You just answered it perfectly. The best heel and face turns happen organically. In history, this has been the case. Rocky Mavia turned into the Rock because fans chanted "die Rocky Die"

I can't find the article but a few years back I remember reading that the WWF used plants in the crowd to get people to chant stuff like Die Rock Die and Rocky Sucks. They would give them signs to hold with the same phrases and if you look at the WWF magazine at the time they would write articles about Rocky saying things like "Too much too soon?" playing up that Rocky's fan base was suddenly turning on him. The definitely steered you in that direction.

As far as why people like ADR and The Miz not working as faces. It's because they have this "I want to see this guy get his ass kicked" aura about them. Just looking at them is enough to make me want to punch them. The Miz is annoying as hell on the mic even as a face.

A guy like Cody Rhodes is doing fine as a face right now. They're doing a decent job of creating sympathy for Big Show.

Some would argue that heels aren't really heels anymore because they all want to be cool heels. It's hard to garner sympathy for the supposed face in a program when people are cheering the heels. For the most part wrestling has done away with the face/heel dynamic.

 

[StunningBlackMamba24]

If I had the choice to turn roles in the wwe right now i would turn Daniel Bryan heel right away because Im just sick and tired of the guy and all these "yes" chants. Daniel Bryan has talent but hes just soo boring now and Im tired of seeing Daniel Bryan vs Shield like how much times have we seen this as the main event of raw like a million?(just exaggerating). He was really entertaining though as a heel and arguing with the fans but anyway have you guys not forgotten about y2j? He had a face turn last year and it just happened to be one of my favorites and also a face turn that had sense and a good story. Dolph Ziggler told him he had lost his touch and maybe if he went back to his old y2j self that everything would be turned around. But anyways I know Chris Jericho already had his moment and this thread is about making faces a star, but if you realized to be over as a babyface, you gotta be over being a heel. See CM Punk, he got so over that one night he cut that one promo in las vegas and for anyone that was a heel promo as he ripped on the fans at one point, and thats what got him so over. Daniel Bryan got so over as apart of team hell no, and he was a heel playing as a face, since he would always rip on the fans in an angry heelish way, but the crowd loved it though and loved him. IMO CM Punk had the best heel-translation over Daniel Bryan.

 

[MWRedskins]

well, in my book it's too soon to call Ziggler's face push a failure. i think if WWE had him go after Del Rio and/or use him as an underdog type of challenger for the World title that had to overcome odds put in front of him, it could get some fans behind him and add to that the fact that he can sell a move can make him a good face to rally behind.

as for Del Rio, i think one issue with him was how forced he seemed to be on us. Sheamus was a good face....at first, but then he started being too forced on us. as for Miz, it's more of his mannerisms that cause him to not be as good a face as he should/could be. i think WWE can turn a good heel to a good face, but it has to be done right. Cody Rhodes started bad, but if done right, i think they can make him a strong face as well.

 

[MCMG]

The problem is the the majority of superstars are better as heels. In recent years, Del Rio, The Miz have turned and struggled. Guys like Ziggler, Sheamus, Orton turned and did well but I think they are ultimately better as a heel. Not everyone has the same ability as The Big Show, Triple H, Kane who can turn effortlessly with great success.

The two best face turns in recent years have probably been Bryan and CM Punk. Bryan's was definitely organic and Punk's was inevitable. It is evident that Bryan is a better face and although Punk is stronger as a bad guy he is definitely doing well thus far.

I don't think it is necessarily the WWE's fault. Some guys just don't get over with the crowd which is unfortunate. The Miz for example was fantastic as a heel and fucking main-evented Wrestlemania against John Cena. Now he is a face his career has stagnated. Poor booking yes but he just isn't a great face and isn't very likeable. I'm not sure what the WWE could do about that other than turn him heel.