Will WWE Ever Get Better?

[GeneralKarim]

WWE is just not cool anymore. And the only reason is that people who dont have a pulse on the wwe universe are in charge of making the decisions.

Look at all the freaking talent they have that can tear the house down 24/7. And we get matadores and shit on our TVs or Wyatts being the next best thing and then losing constantly when it matters.

Look at Cesaro. The guy can probably literally carry the company on his back because of his strenght and how he knows to manipulate weight. And they have him be this...heel? IS he a heel? He doesnt even do heelish things besides some slaps to the face. The momentum he had after WM should've made him a way bigger player than he is now. Not to mention he has a lot more personality than he is showing on TV but WWE doesnt give a crap about that. Just push Cena.

Bryan even if he wasnt hurt probably reached the highest point in his career. And I doubt once he comes back he will be treated like when Cena comes back.

WWE has been "trying" to build new stars for a lot of time now and they still fail. They bring guys up, they do good, they get pushed and then Vince gets bored and buries them.

They struck gold with the Shield but don't hold your breathe. Stuff can always happen. They have the easy fued with Rollins and Ambrose, lets see what they do after that with them. Will they end up like the Wyatts? Can't answer that but given WWE's track record, even tho The Shield was booked very good ( tho their face run should've continued for a bit more ) that doesn't right all the wrongs WWE has done.

It's very hard to get invested in the product nowadays when the guy you like can be off television out of the blue because creative/vince got bored. Look at Bo Dallas, latest example, he's not off television, but they pretty much lost interest in him.

But don't worry Batista will comeback with his Guardians of the Galaxy hype and attract more viewers. For a day.

WWE I got one word for ya: Inconsistency. They do a good raw, then an awful raw. Then they do an even better RAW and then they have a RAW like this week's. They did that whole thing with Cesaro and where is he now? They brought that stupidf freaking lollypop sucking gimmick and thought it would work and where is he now?

They brought Wyatt to be the first actual character in years with actual skills. And where is he now? Having a completely meaningless feud with Jericho that will end in a few weeks and then he will feud with Sheamus most probably. Just great.

Roman Reigns just defeated Randy Orton CLEAN in his first real singles feud, AFTER Randy Orton went full Viper. So basically WWE made Orton look strong for a week after being booked so weak for months only to have Reigns beat him clean. While Wyatt has to resort to 1001 tricks to get out of a cage....consistency...

Sandow. A great wrestler. An excellent talker. Seemed like he was going into a feud with Cena. And he supossedly was Triple H's pet project. Look at him now. I swear if I was him and given mic time I would just say Fuck WWE and then go and get more money and respect in New Japan or somewhere else.

 

[Crawlnstall]

This is my first post here, I first watched wrestling during the attitude era and loved it. I was hooked. I stopped watching around 2001 or 2002. I only started watching a few months ago. The first raw I has watched in years was the one where the shield broke up. I've been entertained watching. Cena seems a little stale but isn't terrible like some people make it seem. I really like cesaro, I hope they do something good with him. The thing that's the most annoying has been the rusev promos/matches. It's always the same and is getting old to me. But so far so good for the wwe. Hoping to get some good discussions here in the future

 

[Alastor]

Actually I can remember a time when wrestling was marketed to and presented for adults. It didn't start becoming an out-and-out cartoon until Junior bought out his daddy.

To be fair 90% of today's target audience wasn't even born at the time. Also things didn't work out that well during that time either. Without Junior's vision we wouldn't even be talking about 'telling stories with our bodies' or *gasp* sports entertainment. We would probably still be in denial and think 'wrestling is still real to me!'

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

To be fair 90% of today's target audience wasn't even born at the time.

Considering the WWE's "target audience" is ten year olds you aren't saying anything that anybody doesn't already know.

Also things didn't work out that well during that time either.

Oh? The WWF was floundering in financial ruin when Vince Senior was running it? That's news to me. However the WWF WAS teetering on financial before Vince went to an adult format in the Attitude era.....something he was forced to do because another company who was presenting wrestling for adults was kicking his ass and taking his lunch money.

Without Junior's vision we wouldn't even be talking about 'telling stories with our bodies' or *gasp* sports entertainment. We would probably still be in denial and think 'wrestling is still real to me!'

Most people I knew who watched wrestling back then knew it wasn't real. They were just willing to suspend disbelieve and enjoy the show (You know, kind of like what you do when you watch a movie?).....or at least they were until Junior started reminding them every five minutes that it's fake. Sorry, but I have no desire to watch Jaws, really get into the movie, only to have Roy Scheider turn to the camera and say "Hey, you guys realize this is just a fake mechanical shark right?". Talk about total buzzkill.

 

[Alastor]

Considering the WWE's "target audience" is ten year olds you aren't saying anything that anybody doesn't already know.

Try going closer to 20 years old and they still weren't even born yet.

Oh? The WWF was floundering in financial ruin when Vince Senior was running it? That's news to me. However the WWF WAS teetering on financial before Vince went to an adult format in the Attitude era.....something he was forced to do because another company who was presenting wrestling for adults was kicking his ass and taking his lunch money.

I'll say WWE now is miles ahead of what wrestling could have been 30 years ago. As for the Attitude era, that was crash TV which only had a limited lifespan. Was it adult format or frat programming? Jersey Shore was a horrible show that was a huge cultural hit a few years ago. Viewers have moved on. There is a limit to how long a programme can last with that trying to outshock viewers every week.

Most people I knew who watched wrestling back then knew it wasn't real. They were just willing to suspend disbelieve and enjoy the show (You know, kind of like what you do when you watch a movie?).....or at least they were until Junior started reminding them every five minutes that it's fake. Sorry, but I have no desire to watch Jaws, really get into the movie, only to have Roy Scheider turn to the camera and say "Hey, you guys realize this is just a fake mechanical shark right?". Talk about total buzzkill.

Well tell that to the CM Punk fans who thinks breaking the 4th wall is the holy grail of promos. Junior reminded fans that it's fake or did the fans want to be part of the show and remind other fans that it's fake?

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

Try going closer to 20 years old and they still weren't even born yet.

And this is relevant how? My entire point was that for the majority of wrestling's history it wasn't kiddy show. The fact that's what the WWE is now doesn't change that.

I'll say WWE now is miles ahead of what wrestling could have been 30 years ago. As for the Attitude era, that was crash TV which only had a limited lifespan. Was it adult format or frat programming? Jersey Shore was a horrible show that was a huge cultural hit a few years ago. Viewers have moved on. There is a limit to how long a programme can last with that trying to outshock viewers every week.

Considering that, as Jim Cornette points out, there's more people out there that USED to watch wrestling but don't anymore than there are that currently watch it, how is it "miles ahead" of anything?

Well tell that to the CM Punk fans who thinks breaking the 4th wall is the holy grail of promos. Junior reminded fans that it's fake or did the fans want to be part of the show and remind other fans that it's fake?

Considering it was Junior's head writer Vince Russo and his BS "worked shoots" that started all that "pipebomb" shit it looks to me like smarks are just a symptom of the problem. And that, of course, was following Junior putting out a product that was so cartoony that it was practically impossible for an adult to suspend disbelief. That's as much reminding the audience that it's fake as any of Russo's BS shoots. Either one is buzzkill.

It's one thing to talk about pushes and jobbers and shit, but when I'm watching the show I don't want to be reminded of it.

 

[Alastor]

And this is relevant how? My entire point was that for the majority of wrestling's history it wasn't kiddy show. The fact that's what the WWE is now doesn't change that.

And my point is for the majority of wrestling's current core audience it has been a kiddy show. Grown ups that used to watch it as kids. Kids that are currently watching. Its nice to know the history of the business but do 90% of the audience give a damn?

Considering that, as Jim Cornette points out, there's more people out there that USED to watch wrestling but don't anymore than there are that currently watch it, how is it "miles ahead" of anything?

People grew up and moved on to other things in life. There's more people that used to watch Saturday morning cartoons but don't anymore than there are that currently watch it. Guess what? Kids programmes both.

Considering it was Junior's head writer Vince Russo and his BS "worked shoots" that started all that "pipebomb" shit it looks to me like smarks are just a symptom of the problem. And that, of course, was following Junior putting out a product that was so cartoony that it was practically impossible for an adult to suspend disbelief. That's as much reminding the audience that it's fake as any of Russo's BS shoots. Either one is buzzkill.

But attitude era is adult content! That's what 90% of the comments section in wrestling always tell me.
Could it be they had to do it because smarks were thinking 'this is fake' and only watched to be 'in on it'? The taste for scripted fighting was wanning. Without all the caricatures of the 80s and 90s wrestling would not have been as popular. Kids don't want to watch two random guys fighting. They are entertained when a zombie fight for a rich guy. Adults don't want to watch scripted fighting when alternative real fights are good. (boxing in the past, MMA in recent years)

 

[Cub McCallister]

I hope the wwe gets better because they are showing signs that thy can put on great matches, at this time though I'm not really interested in it as much as I used to because of the announce team is too corny and not at all interesting and the titles don't feel meaningful. The only feud that is interesting me is Ambrose & Rollins because they just continue to show how great they are, wwe have made some great signings in Devitt, Kenta & Steen so hopefully they will all make the product better. Triple HHJ wants to put wrestling matches on where Vince wants to make it more family based and constantly chanes his mind which is annoying. Hopefully by next year they can make it better by doing this following things:

Pushing new stars.
Making the titles mean something.
Getting rid of gimmick ppvs because they just don't do anything.
Make survivor series an all elimination ppv.

These things should happen hopefully.

 

[Bockwinkel's Class]

And my point is for the majority of wrestling's current core audience it has been a kiddy show. Grown ups that used to watch it as kids. Kids that are currently watching. Its nice to know the history of the business but do 90% of the audience give a damn?

People grew up and moved on to other things in life. There's more people that used to watch Saturday morning cartoons but don't anymore than there are that currently watch it. Guess what? Kids programmes both.

And did it ever occur to you that they'd still be watching if Junior hadn't changed it from adult programming to a kiddy show? "Growing up" wouldn't be an issue then now would it?

But attitude era is adult content! That's what 90% of the comments section in wrestling always tell me.
Could it be they had to do it because smarks were thinking 'this is fake' and only watched to be 'in on it'? The taste for scripted fighting was wanning. Without all the caricatures of the 80s and 90s wrestling would not have been as popular. Kids don't want to watch two random guys fighting. They are entertained when a zombie fight for a rich guy. Adults don't want to watch scripted fighting when alternative real fights are good. (boxing in the past, MMA in recent years)

Missing the point that adults WERE watching scripted fighting that they knew was scripted. Do the NWA and WCW ring a bell? WCW was kicking Junior's ass with adult programming (that wasn't crash TV btw) hence why he had to dump the cartoons for the Attitude Era in the first place. So obviously adults had no problems watching scripted fighting when it was marketed for them. It wasn't until after WCW was in the rearview mirror that Junior felt safe enough to go back to his Spongebob style programming.

 

[Alastor]

And did it ever occur to you that they'd still be watching if Junior hadn't changed it from adult programming to a kiddy show?

Which era are you referring to? The early 90s where both WWE and WCW were doing the same shit? Or the PG era where WWE had to contend with Linda McMahon's failed campaign and rebound from the Benoit incident? In both cases I believe business was better to stay a kiddy show.

"Growing up" wouldn't be an issue then now would it?

It would still be an issue. Majority of the viewers stopped watching whatever they were watching when they were kids or teens because life has different priorities than before.

Missing the point that adults WERE watching scripted fighting that they knew was scripted.

Yes the key word is WERE. Majority of fans that grew up during the attitude era who are adults now will just say 'are you still watching that?' when wrestling is on TV. An era you seem to believe was adult programming.

Do the NWA and WCW ring a bell? WCW was kicking Junior's ass with adult programming (that wasn't crash TV btw) hence why he had to dump the cartoons for the Attitude Era in the first place.

WWE has more years successful than both of those two. WCW was kicking ass just as WWE did before due to star power and deep pockets and not 'adult programming'. WCW was even more cartoonish in the early 90's if I remember correctly.

So obviously adults had no problems watching scripted fighting when it was marketed for them. It wasn't until after WCW was in the rearview mirror that Junior felt safe enough to go back to his Spongebob style programming.

Junior went back to it because that's where the money is. Also his wife was running for office. WWE has always marketed towards adults too even though wrestling is a kids show. Adults had no problems watching scripted fighting but prefer to watch real fighting over it. Is that Ok with you?