WWE can insult our intelligence and get away with it

[Radical]

WWE has benefited a very long time now by being pretty much the only show of its kind. One of the biggest benefits is that that huge writing staff and Vince with the final say doesn't have to be very unique or logical all the time and can still get away with it.

What do I mean by "get away with it?" Well, they are in the business to make money so if Vince decides to run an angle that doesn't quite make sense or is kind of dull or lazy but the upcoming PPV still does well and the TV ratings don't tank week after week and merchandise is still sold at a solid rate, then he's getting away with it.

As for PPVs, since it's more about Network subscribers now, as long as there isn't a massive cancelling of Network subscriptions then Vince can assume everything he is doing is okay.

Let's talk examples, shall we? Take Monday Night Raw. Dean Amborse "The Lunatic Fringe" is in line for his WWE World Title match against Seth Rollins at the upcoming PPV on Sunday. The Authority say Ambrose still has to sign the contract but before he can have a chance he accidentally hits a camera man. Apparently that accident is so severe it warrants an arrest and a trip to the police station. YEAH, RIGHT! C'mon, seriously? It's like Vince was having a nostalgic night and wanted to relive some of those Austin vs Corporation moments and just picked an old storyline right out of the book. We've seen this before and we know how it ends. Honestly, how many people had even the slightest doubt as to how the show would end? Even the kids knew! When they tell you that if Ambrose doesn't sign the contract that there will be no WWE World Title match at the upcoming PPV you have to know that won't be the case. So why even run that angle? To me, it insults my intelligence when I'm already trying to suspend my disbelief.

What else could they have done? Well, if the wanted to go the "Ambrose is unstable and unsafe" route then The Authority could have put him in a straight jacket and Kane or J&J could have taken him to a 'secure' location somewhere backstage and then near the end of the show Ambrose would break down. It would be funny if he shows up on the stage and one of J&J security is in the straight jacket or they are tied up there together.


What do you guys think? Can WWE (aka Vince) constantly insult our intelligence and get away with it?

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Here's the thing: while I fully agree that WWE allows huge gaps in logic to flow through into their storylines, it's time to stop singling them out for insulting our intelligence while pretending that the rest of professional wrestling doesn't do the exact same thing. During the glory days of the NWA, WCCW, WCW, New Japan, ROH, AAA, CMLL, TNA, All Japan and every tiny indie company working today, they all do the same thing. At the same time, can we be really surprised? I mean, we're watching a show built around men & women with fictional personas who engage in fictional feuds that culminate in fictional fights in which the outcomes are predetermined; expecting a lack of logic holes big enough to drive truck through while watching pro wrestling is like watching Game of Thrones and not expecting to see a bunch of men running around showing their flaccid wangs.

Granted, there are times in which Vince's sheer lack of cohesive logic is vomit inducing, it's plain frustrating as hell sometimes to the extent in which Vince lets logic fly out the window. Again though, this is one of those things that goes on in pro wrestling as a whole and has for decades, yet WWE gets slammed for it while everyone else gets a free pass because WWE is the big boy on the block and is therefore the most convenient target; only instead of it being someone from the mainstream media raking WWE over the coals for something controversial that goes on everywhere else in wrestling, it's fans taking them to task for something that's been standard operating procedure since before Vince was being potty trained.

I'm not saying that makes it right, but just holding WWE responsible for industry wide shortcomings is as lazy as some claim WWE booking is.

 

[TheICChampion]

Well, and this is not a defense of some of the dumb things Vince has come up with in the past, you need to remember that on most weeks (not counting PPV's), Vince and his writers have to come up with roughly 10 hours of TV, which can't be easy, and sooner or later they'll have to use something they've done before. It's just how it is.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

Well, and this is not a defense of some of the dumb things Vince has come up with in the past, you need to remember that on most weeks (not counting PPV's), Vince and his writers have to come up with roughly 10 hours of TV, which can't be easy, and sooner or later they'll have to use something they've done before. It's just how it is.

That's a situation they put themselves in. There is zero demand for a second or third show. There is zero demand for a 3 hour RAW. They chose to do it, because that way they can hock more advertising in your face without you realizing it.

Why WWE thinks there's any benefit in SmackDown is well beyond me. Again, it must come down to some monetizing type reason, because it sure as hell is not because of the quality it brings.

So this predicament is WWE's fault, and it can't be used as an excuse as you said. They should've thought about it prior to launching all of this content. Actually, I'm sure they did. Only they don't really care.

So yes, the WWE will continue to insult your intelligence. Not because they're so arrogant and evil, but because you let them. Every time they do it and you come back to watch next week, you give them carte blanche to insult your intelligence again.

And why wouldn't they? They keep bewitching you with promises like "Anything can happen in the WWE", relying on your incessant belief that the WWE will get better and of course your unfathomable optimism. They hook you in the easy way - why try harder?

Why spend more hours and more effort on really fleshing out a carefully written show when they'll get you even with a poor one? It makes no sense. Waste of time. WWE is smart here. They get viewers for less work. You (whoever's reading this, agreeing that WWE insults our intelligence and keeps watching) are the idiot. Not them.

"Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me three hundred thousand fifty eight times ... "

Of course, there's the argument that if they produced better television that did not evaporate IQ points on cue, they'd be better off with ratings, brand awareness, yada yada. And it's a valid argument. But they're already pulling in big bucks, they seem to be doing just fine.

Clearly no direct competitor will arise in the next five decades, and clearly you'll keep watching no matter what - so why bother?

If you want them to change and you're annoyed, simply stop watching like this disgruntled former WWE fan right here. And I mean stop watching it on your TV set. Download it instead. Just take away that Nielsen participation. Don't watch it on TV, don't buy their merchandise, don't click on their YouTube videos, don't follow their social media (any of it). Still keep up to date from dirt sheets and torrent sites, but don't give them your participation when it counts. If more people did what I did and their precious audience dwindled down even more, you'll see them scrambling to produce some kick-ass shows pretty goddamn quick. I guarantee you that. And if they do, then they've earned you back as a viewer that counts. Then you can support them.

Until then? You're just making it worse. Even if you think just one person is a drop in the ocean and doesn't impact anything - what is an ocean but a multitude of drops. (watch Cloud Atlas, it's good)

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

What do you guys think? Can WWE (aka Vince) constantly insult our intelligence and get away with it?

Ofcourse he can for one simple reason: Its because wheather its good or bad, you guys are handing him the money. Its like asking: Why Michael Bay is still allowed to make movies? Same thing as in WWE, you go to movie theater and pay for it wheather its good or really bad.

So unless he sees lack of Network or ticket sales or real dissapointment(like last year when fans downright booed Batista out of building and it was clear that Batista- Orton feud aint gona work for Wrestlemania mainevent or even this year when bad reaction to Reigns compromised year long plan where Reigns should beat Lesnar on his way out) WWE and Vince arent gona change a thing. Because, you know, he still makes money on product and doesnt really care if IWC is concerned how somebody got arrested and then comed back like he got away from police station as fugitive. Or how HHH few years ago got away with coming uninvited to Ortons home and trashed his house along with him. Its WWEs logic so you either go with it or try to point out how stupid it is.

Oh, and personally, I dont mind that Ambrose stuff. More concerned with "Authority" angle that isnt gona end soon, bad acting of "Entourage" guys because, you know, its just important to promote some movie that is coming in theaters soon and fact that you take monster like Rusev and turn him in wimp that feuds with the likes of Ziggler who is just serving for Sheamus to be "feed".

 

[Radical]

expecting a lack of logic holes big enough to drive truck through while watching pro wrestling is like watching Game of Thrones and not expecting to see a bunch of men running around showing their flaccid wangs.

I appreciate the simile but I would like to be able to watch Game of Thrones without seeing that, just as I would like to be able to watch WWE without every show feeling like it's just going through the motions.

I do understand that it's not JUST WWE's fault. I know other wrestling companies have done it for years. I know WCW was beloved during the NWO vs WCW thing but if you go back and look at the show there was a LOT of plot holes and the under card stuff was filler with little story to it and pretty much only the NWO driven matches had any meaning. Same goes for old WWE Attitude Era. There was a lot of plot holes and lack of character development but it worked back then because it was crash-bang TV.

But what worked in the Attitude Era was that WWE did have to be 'must see TV' or be true to 'anything can happen' because during the Monday Night Wars if you were watching a match or segment on Raw and it wasn't very interesting or nothing big was happening, you would switch over to WCW. These days, if you don't like what is on WWE, you can just switch to another program but it is hard to get another wrestling fix on TV and nothing else is on Mondays.

I think what WWE seems to lack these days is intensity and drive. On Raw there were 3 separate matches with members of the IC Elimination Chamber match in them. Only one match really had a story to it. That was Dolph losing to Sheamus from distraction from Rusev. But what about that Ryback vs Barrett match? It was JUST a match. The IC title was on display but there was no real passion or intensity other than what would be normal. Why wasn't there something more? Why didn't Barrett go out and grab the IC title while the match was still on, distract Ryback and the ref with it, give him a cheap shot and then win the match. After the match he could gloat too long while holding the title and Ryback could come back and give him a Shell Shock. Then maybe out comes Sheamus to Brogue Kick Ryback. Out comes Dolph to Superkick Sheamus and out comes Rusev to knock him out of the ring and hold the IC title high. THAT would show more intensity and build better towards the match on Sunday. But why didn't they do that? Because they don't have to! The little feud they did with Rusev and Dolph is 'enough' because as long as people still subscribe to the Network and still go to shows, they don't need to be MORE intense and interesting.

What about the SUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUPER long talking segments on Raw? Rusev and Lana was like 15 minutes. All that time drawn out just so Rusev could say please come back and drop Ziggler. What about Cena talking for 15 minutes before his Open Challenge? He was so pandering and repetitive that I couldn't even listen and barely could watch. If I was in the crowd I would have got up and gone to the bathroom. Can anyone tell me those segments had to be that long instead of more time for the Tag Team match that could have been a 6 Team Tornado Tag match and a LOT more interesting than that 3 minute spot fest?

I'll give WWE credit, they are doing something right. Despite how boring and illogical much of the show can be, they are doing enough things right because they have over 1.3 Million Network subscribers, they constantly have 3-4 million viewers of Raw and 2-3 on SmackDown, they still sell merchandise well (including Cena who is becoming more and more unbearable). Even if I'm complaining, all WWE sees is dollar signs.

I'm not saying that WWE is all bad either. Again, there were dreadful and terrible parts in the beloved Attitude Era too. I still enjoy when the WWE puts on a good segment or match. When they do that well, it reminds me why I like to watch.

But what I do know is WWE is motivated by what is best for business. I'm not completely satisfied or in love with WWE so that's why I never buy their merchandise (only exception is the video games), I haven't gone to live events, I haven't subscribed to the Network or bought a PPV and I occasionally sit down and watch Raw or SmackDown on TV but I don't really factor much into their ratings. But clearly there are people who do all those things I don't do and there are enough of them that WWE is doing very well financially.

So WWE is motivated to get people to subscribe to their Network. It's awesome for them because it's guaranteed monthly money. They want us to get the Network so we can see Elimination Chamber. But do they need to put a LOT of effort into it? Not really. They feel the match will mostly sell itself. But if WWE was in direct competition with another company, a WCW of today, for example, then don't you think they would have had a more exciting Raw?

I bet if WWE had to compete with another company then on Raw we would have seen more intensity. Dean Ambrose wouldn't just have come to the ring with a paddy wagon, he would have brought mace and sprayed The Authority down. The Tag Teams would have had a more intense and interesting match. The members in the IC Chamber match would have shown more passion. Kevin Owens wouldn't have just stepped on the US title, he would have spat on it so he'd draw even MORE heat and people would be furious with him and want to get the Network to see Cena beat Owens down.

But instead? We got the Raw that we got. And unless the Network loses many subscribers over the next few months, WWE doesn't really have to change much. They can insult our intelligence. Actually, what they are really doing is testing our loyalty and sometimes disrespecting it.

If you watch NXT and you have someone walk in who sees you watching it you can pretty proudly explain why you watch because of the quality of matches, the intensity but also efficiency of promos and segments and the feeling of legitimacy every wrestler and title and feud has.

If you watch Raw or SmackDown, there are many segments where you could be bored to tears and have difficulty explaining to someone why something is happening or why it's interesting.

I know NXT is part of WWE but that's kind of my point. WWE's Raw and SmackDown feel like they insult my intelligence or exploit my loyalty despite not being a fully entertaining show, whereas NXT does the opposite. I can watch every NXT episode and feel it was worth my time.

But WWE is doing fine without me. It's like that show The Big Bang Theory. I enjoyed it most in its first few seasons but that's when it wasn't getting the best ratings (they were okay, but not the top), then in the last couple seasons I've barely watched the show because I don't find it as entertaining any more but they've been having amazing ratings! Clearly, what they are doing is working for more people and me not watching is not making a difference and they don't need me.

WWE has found a demographic that is so loyal that what annoys me isn't annoying enough to them to get them to stop so WWE doesn't have to. It's like John Cena these days. He can be as annoying as hell but he's selling merch all the time and still gets a reaction. If fans truly stopped caring, let's say, a couple years ago then every time he came out the fans would be silent. They would be silent through his promos and matches. But they aren't, so he's still around. He hasn't caused mass amounts of people to cancel their Network subscriptions or stop buying his merchandise.


Bottom line, if WWE continues to see Network subscriptions rise and they never fall drastically and they see steady merch sales, live event attendance and TV ratings, they simply won't have to change very much. Cena promos will continue to go long and pandering, Cena will continue to win in Super Cena like ways, certain tag teams will keep going without any character development or be thrown into a PPV match without much logic, IC title holder won't be built as a true champion and hard to beat, Diva storylines will be dull and confusing, Wyatt's feuds won't have any lasting purpose or meaning, Ambrose will be held back from being TRULY a must-see lunatic character except for rare occasions, etc, etc, etc.

 

[Woodstuff]

Let's talk examples, shall we? Take Monday Night Raw. Dean Amborse "The Lunatic Fringe" is in line for his WWE World Title match against Seth Rollins at the upcoming PPV on Sunday. The Authority say Ambrose still has to sign the contract but before he can have a chance he accidentally hits a camera man. Apparently that accident is so severe it warrants an arrest and a trip to the police station. YEAH, RIGHT! C'mon, seriously? It's like Vince was having a nostalgic night and wanted to relive some of those Austin vs Corporation moments and just picked an old storyline right out of the book. We've seen this before and we know how it ends. Honestly, how many people had even the slightest doubt as to how the show would end? Even the kids knew! When they tell you that if Ambrose doesn't sign the contract that there will be no WWE World Title match at the upcoming PPV you have to know that won't be the case. So why even run that angle? To me, it insults my intelligence when I'm already trying to suspend my disbelief.

What else could they have done? Well, if the wanted to go the "Ambrose is unstable and unsafe" route then The Authority could have put him in a straight jacket and Kane or J&J could have taken him to a 'secure' location somewhere backstage and then near the end of the show Ambrose would break down. It would be funny if he shows up on the stage and one of J&J security is in the straight jacket or they are tied up there together.


What do you guys think? Can WWE (aka Vince) constantly insult our intelligence and get away with it?

You're (presumably) a fully gown man that watches pro wrestling, and you're complaining about having your intelligence insulted? Come on, dude... Time after time after time, these threads pop up "WWE is doing this wrong", "WWE is doing that wrong", "WWE doesn't care about the fans" blah blah blah. But the fact is, WWE do care about the fans. They care about the fans that buy tickets to house shows, pay for network subscriptions, and contribute to ratings/growth of the company. Not grown men posting on internet forums about how one segment on one show didn't work, or one angle didn't make 100% sense.

If you feel WWE's product is insulting to your intelligence, then don't watch it. It's like eating at McDonald's every day, but at the same time posting on HealthyEating.org "God, that company are such dicks. I'm so sick of their shitty food clogging up my arteries and giving me heart disease." If you don't like it, stop watching.

But FYI, WWE and Vince aren't trying to insult your intelligence. They don't care about your intelligence. 10 hours of original material every week is tough, and not every line of dialogue is going to hit a perfect chord.

 

[Nate DaMac]

Let's talk examples, shall we? Take Monday Night Raw. Dean Amborse "The Lunatic Fringe" is in line for his WWE World Title match against Seth Rollins at the upcoming PPV on Sunday. The Authority say Ambrose still has to sign the contract but before he can have a chance he accidentally hits a camera man. Apparently that accident is so severe it warrants an arrest and a trip to the police station. YEAH, RIGHT! C'mon, seriously?

Yeah you deserve to have your intelligence insulted. Assault, which is what Ambrose was guilty of at the time, is a felony. When you commit a felony, you get arrested.

Now if you were to address the fact that Ambrose was processed and let of jail waaaaay earlier than he would have in real life after the evidence was presented or asked how exactly he acquired a police uniform and SWAT truck, you'd have a point. You'd be a pedantic twat, but at least you wouldn't be flat out incorrect.

 

[Kizzani]

What do you guys think? Can WWE (aka Vince) constantly insult our intelligence and get away with it?

Yes he can and yes he will, it is a show about entertainment, Not about real facts. Can a car drive 140 mph and flip a u-turn while driving with your eyes closed like in fast and the furious? Well let's just as Hogan's kid best friend oh wait he died, well then let's ask Paul Walker....Oh snap dead too. Okay so maybe on a closed course but not on a busy city street.

So when did wrestling become "REAL LIFE". So instead of having Dean Ambrose get a FAKE arrest, Obviously paid for by the McMahon (We are in story mode) I mean hell they have arrested people for NO reason before. Which is a tried and true method, Stone Cold stealing beer trucks, DX stealing a Tank, Undertaker stealing a hearse etc etc.

So since you decided to pick apart WWE's idea let dismantle yours. Where did they get a straight jacket, How come a actual doctor didn't evaluate Amborse, they just tossed him into a random straight jacket they had lying around? Oh and then magically using Chris Angel Magic he broke out of the straight jacket, but that is impossible once locked ( if they wear easy to get out of I would think they would use something else). So does he dislocate his shoulder like Martin Riggs ( Lethal Weapon) ? So how did he get out, oh he was locked away so the security was dumb like in the movies, I thought we were talking real life.

Yeah your story is full of holes too, But breaking out of a straight jacket ranks 2 of 10 ( which is why movies don't show that crap) But how many movies so car cashes and stealing of cop cars? I rest my case.

It is entertainment and it is meant to be seen this way, Not as real life.

 

[Radical]

But the fact is, WWE do care about the fans. They care about the fans that buy tickets to house shows, pay for network subscriptions, and contribute to ratings/growth of the company. Not grown men posting on internet forums about how one segment on one show didn't work, or one angle didn't make 100% sense.

Clearly you didn't read my second post where I basically said the same thing you did and clearly you are pretty defensive about WWE and making assumptions about me.

I just said in my last post that I know wrestling shows and companies have always had gaps in logic and silly storylines that one could say insult the viewers intelligence. I'm not saying they DO, I'm asking if people feel that way.

Actually, one thing I'm realizing as I'm writing this is really wrestling has always been the same. It's always been cheesy, silly and illogical. I realize that's part of the fun. I admit, part of the reason it can be enjoyable is how silly it is. How funny it is to see a wrestler climb to the top turnbuckle and jump backwards at their opponent without looking in an attempt to take them down. Who in their right mind would turn away from their opponent? Obviously, stuff like that only happens in the magical world of pro wrestling. So, getting even an averagely logical or compelling storyline should be acceptable and anything better than that should be considered a bonus.

Yeah you deserve to have your intelligence insulted. Assault, which is what Ambrose was guilty of at the time, is a felony. When you commit a felony, you get arrested.

Now if you were to address the fact that Ambrose was processed and let of jail waaaaay earlier than he would have in real life after the evidence was presented or asked how exactly he acquired a police uniform and SWAT truck, you'd have a point. You'd be a pedantic twat, but at least you wouldn't be flat out incorrect.

Way to take that the wrong way. I wasn't talking about intelligence being insulted as "what should happen in real life" because pro wrestling world is pretty much its own world, Vince would prefer you call it the WWE Universe. I wasn't saying it was insulting to me either, I was stating an example of where people may feel that way. It wasn't about what should happen legally, it was about how that story would be interesting or suspenseful to the viewer. Did anyone think Dean Ambrose wasn't coming back that night? No.

But again, I realize this has been the standard of WWE and pro wrestling for ages. Just putting a bunch of stuff out there, silly stuff, over-the-top stuff because it's acceptable in the world of pro wrestling.

I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings suggesting that someone who watches wrestling could feel like their intelligence is being insulted by watching any part of it.

 

[V Dogg]

We all complain about WWE's product. But yet we still watch. You know why? Because it's the only form of entertainment worth watching on Monday nights and on select Sunday nights.

 

[FlairFan2003]

We're really complaining about gaps in logic for pro wrestling in TV ?? How did Randy Savage get reinstated after being forced into retirement by losing vs Ultimate Warrior ?? That never made any sense

At least Hogan & Savage petitioning the WCW Board Of Directors to reinstate Ric Flair made some sense since they couldn't beta him up if he wasn't an active wrester....

Didn't The Four Horsemen jump Dusty Rhodes in a parking lot and break his arm with a baseball bat --- and not get arrested ?

Didn't they assault Lex Luger in a parking lot and bounce his head off a limo a year later ...and not get arrested ?

Didn't The Horsemen all get arrested for attacking Eric Bichoff and beating up Barry Whyndam & Scott Norton ?? WTF

Didn't the NWO kidnap Ric Flair and beat him near to death in the woods ? With a camera man filming the whole thing ? No arrests

Yet Vince McMahon had Flair arrested for assault during his 2002 feud with Undertaker ?

Was there any logic behind Brett Hart's bi weekly defections to and from the NWO in 1998 ?

Didn't anyone in WWE notice that rules clearly state that titles can not change hands on DQ but The Brain Busters won the tag titles in a 2 of 3 falls match thanks to a DQ ???

Katie Vick ????

The actual ridiculous back stories of Undertaker & Kane, which reads like something right out of a soap opera ?

Lita's baby ???

The entire premise of The Hurricane ?

The ridiculous promos of The Wyatt Family, complete with "brainwashed" children ??

There are so many examples through the years it's hard to actually put them all in writing....The Red Rooster anyone ???

This is a soap opera....you suspend belief for entertainment value, most of the time the storylines seem somewhat rooted in reality but periodically they go too far, but if you are a soap opera fan you expect this and live with it, otherwise you don't watch soap operas....and pro wrestling is a soap opera.

 

[SinCityBlitz]

You can't have your intelligence insulted if you don't watch. If you continue to watch something that insults your intelligence I doubt you have much intelligence to begin with.


Like others have said every fed does stupid stuff. It's not limited to WWE. But when it comes to PW you really have to suspend belief.

 

[Navi]

To be quite honest anyone who has their intelligence insulted by watching wrestling doesn't have much intelligence to begin with. It's not real, it's fake, it's scripted. I view it as entertainment, the same way I would look at any other TV show. Does logic flying out the window make me scratch my head, sure it does, but it's Vince and he's been out of touch for a long time, so it's almost expected.

 

[Vanilla Midget]

I honestly didn't pay much attention to the Ambrose arrested angle. I knew it was a joke from the jump, as soon as the cop actor started reading the Miranda rights from a piece of paper, I choked on my soda laughing.

Wrestling is over the top, it's a bit silly, and it's often hokey. To think that they insult the intelligence of their fans is ridiculous, they've been fairly transparent in recent years. In CNN interviews, Triple H has been clear that WWE is scripted entertainment. It's not The Wire, it's never going to televised filet mignon.

WWE is like a juicy American hotdog, it's not the healthiest thing to ingest, it's full of various potent flavours, you ignore the buttholes and all the other garbage parts stuffed in it, you're often embarrassed to be seen eating it, but God damn can it be satisfying. If you focus on the lips and the shoulders and the ridiculousness of it all, you're not going to like it.

That being said, you don't have to blindly enjoy it. You're welcome to criticize it, that's why we have these little get togethers like this on these forums. To say they insult the fans intelligence is a stretch. WWE need to create storylines that are digestible to seven year old Cena fans, to average working Joes, to smarter fans like us. Kids see the Ambrose arrest angle and they buy right into it. Guys like us see it, we groan and see some development of a feud between two guys who ought to put on a barn burner this Sunday.

There are some gaps in logic, and blindly enjoying it isn't the answer, but neither is letting it get you bent out of shape. Wrestling in of itself is insulting to intelligence of you don't willfully suspend disbelief. Sweaty dudes in tights try to pin each other to the ground in an effort to get big shiny belts. Intelligence.

 

[Zeven_Zion]

I honestly didn't pay much attention to the Ambrose arrested angle. I knew it was a joke from the jump, as soon as the cop actor started reading the Miranda rights from a piece of paper, I choked on my soda laughing.

Wrestling is over the top, it's a bit silly, and it's often hokey. To think that they insult the intelligence of their fans is ridiculous, they've been fairly transparent in recent years. In CNN interviews, Triple H has been clear that WWE is scripted entertainment. It's not The Wire, it's never going to televised filet mignon.

WWE is like a juicy American hotdog, it's not the healthiest thing to ingest, it's full of various potent flavours, you ignore the buttholes and all the other garbage parts stuffed in it, you're often embarrassed to be seen eating it, but God damn can it be satisfying. If you focus on the lips and the shoulders and the ridiculousness of it all, you're not going to like it.

That being said, you don't have to blindly enjoy it. You're welcome to criticize it, that's why we have these little get togethers like this on these forums. To say they insult the fans intelligence is a stretch. WWE need to create storylines that are digestible to seven year old Cena fans, to average working Joes, to smarter fans like us. Kids see the Ambrose arrest angle and they buy right into it. Guys like us see it, we groan and see some development of a feud between two guys who ought to put on a barn burner this Sunday.

There are some gaps in logic, and blindly enjoying it isn't the answer, but neither is letting it get you bent out of shape. Wrestling in of itself is insulting to intelligence of you don't willfully suspend disbelief. Sweaty dudes in tights try to pin each other to the ground in an effort to get big shiny belts. Intelligence.

The problem comes from the simple fact that to be enjoyed, wrestling expects you to suspend disbelief. That's the compromise we make. Unlike TV series, where we completely understand that what happens in the realm of the TV show stays there, wrestling doesn't really operate that way. It sells itself as a real part of our very real world. It sells the action as completely real, it sells consequences are real. The lines are blurred.

If Breaking Bad tried to sell Walter White as a real person in the real world who sells real meth and is part of real crime organizations, it would be the same as wrestling.

I suppose the difference comes from the fact that Breaking Bad is a show about a meth dealer, and wrestling is ... wrestling. It's not a show about wrestling.

So with that, knowing what's up, we already suspend our disbelief quite a lot. We ignore the fake punches, the fake physicality, the predetermined outcomes, the fake stories, the fake friendships, the fake rivalries, the fake acting. We turn a blind eye to so much, that at the very least we expect that wrestling tries to really plug the holes of inconsistency such as the ones listed in this thread, and so many others over the years. No matter what people think, suspending disbelief so much is actually really hard. That's why so many non-wrestling fans can't get into it. What's the number one complaint? "It's fake". It's pretty tough to dive into something like wrestling, completely suspend disbelief and thus get the reward of how awesome it actually is. Cracking through the shell of fakeness is rough, after that it's great. But wrestling companies make it a little too difficult even for us sometimes.

I mean, hell, we already feel like idiots for watching it when it's so fake that it takes us out of the show.

The problem comes when wrestling writers assume that we'll just take any fakeness, and just because we ignore all the other unrealistic things, we'll take anything.

But no, it doesn't work that way. We still want a shred of realism to hold on to, just so we can enrich the disbelief (as weird as that sounds).

Of course they can't make the actual wrestling more physical and they have no control over the realism of the basic wrestling elements because that might put wrestlers' well being in jeopardy. However, touching up the small things in stories, consistency maintenance and so forth can't be too hard. I feel it's lazy sometimes.

 

[Radical]

The problem comes from the simple fact that to be enjoyed, wrestling expects you to suspend disbelief. That's the compromise we make. Unlike TV series, where we completely understand that what happens in the realm of the TV show stays there, wrestling doesn't really operate that way. It sells itself as a real part of our very real world. It sells the action as completely real, it sells consequences are real. The lines are blurred.

If Breaking Bad tried to sell Walter White as a real person in the real world who sells real meth and is part of real crime organizations, it would be the same as wrestling.

I suppose the difference comes from the fact that Breaking Bad is a show about a meth dealer, and wrestling is ... wrestling. It's not a show about wrestling.

So with that, knowing what's up, we already suspend our disbelief quite a lot. We ignore the fake punches, the fake physicality, the predetermined outcomes, the fake stories, the fake friendships, the fake rivalries, the fake acting. We turn a blind eye to so much, that at the very least we expect that wrestling tries to really plug the holes of inconsistency such as the ones listed in this thread, and so many others over the years. No matter what people think, suspending disbelief so much is actually really hard. That's why so many non-wrestling fans can't get into it. What's the number one complaint? "It's fake". It's pretty tough to dive into something like wrestling, completely suspend disbelief and thus get the reward of how awesome it actually is. Cracking through the shell of fakeness is rough, after that it's great. But wrestling companies make it a little too difficult even for us sometimes.

I mean, hell, we already feel like idiots for watching it when it's so fake that it takes us out of the show.

The problem comes when wrestling writers assume that we'll just take any fakeness, and just because we ignore all the other unrealistic things, we'll take anything.

But no, it doesn't work that way. We still want a shred of realism to hold on to, just so we can enrich the disbelief (as weird as that sounds).

Of course they can't make the actual wrestling more physical and they have no control over the realism of the basic wrestling elements because that might put wrestlers' well being in jeopardy. However, touching up the small things in stories, consistency maintenance and so forth can't be too hard. I feel it's lazy sometimes.

I think you make a lot of good points.

Others have made good points too about how wrestling fans willingly have to accept pretty silly and ridiculous events and enjoy them for what they are presenting themselves to be because if you start digging into it for realism and truth all the time you'll pretty quickly stop enjoy it.

Ok, maybe wrestling isn't insulting to anyone's intelligence but it is asking a fair bit of our patience and forgivingness, wouldn't you say?

Just to be a wrestling fan at all you have to accept all the fake stuff and get into the story that is being told and the action that you can see.

But how many times have wrestling fans admitted that they were embarrassed to be a wrestling fan when they saw a certain segment or match? I'm sure it's happened to us all. Wouldn't you say those are times where you wish the creative team put a little more effort and care into the the show?

I know fans do want more. Just because they are wrestling fans doesn't mean they don't want to be proud of what they are watching. I realize WWE is a variety show, though.

I realize that they are really trying to interest the young demographic because they have the most potential to influence ratings, sales through their obsession over it.

That's why Cena is still around. Kids love him because he always wins and does it with passion. Kids with Cena gear are sometimes no more than 5 or 6 years old. No wonder they like him. He's colorful, he's confident and he wins almost all the time! What kid wouldn't like that? So when Cena goes into a match, gets beat up basically the whole match, looks almost unable to walk but then goes into Super Cena mode and pops up with one AA and puts away an opponent ... does that mean we should all be happy with that? Just because we know pro wrestling is fake and silly? Or should we expect more logic? Should we expect the wrestlers to sell better and consistently so we aren't so clearly drawn out of the action?

Really, I'm just trying to find where the line should be. Where is our breaking point? We accept a lot and suspend our disbelief to a level many people who watch other shows don't have to but at what point do we still have to except more from the show to allow us to feel more passionate, proud and interested in the product?

That's really what I'm trying to get at. What is the breaking point?