WrestleZone Hall of Fame 6th Inductee Nominations

[JGlass]

Welcome to the interactive portion of the WrestleZone Hall of Fame. For the next week, you, the users of WrestleZone Forum, will be deciding who the next inductee to the hall of fame will be. A committee composed of JGlass, Sly, and KB has selected the following three wrestlers for you to vote on, and the wrestler that receives the most votes will be inducted into the Hall of Fame. The poles will be open for one week.

Bret Hart

Bret Hart is arguably one of the greatest ring generals to ever step into the squared circle. Trained by his father Stu Hart in the infamous Hart Family Dungeon, Bret Hart learned all about submission maneuvers, technical wrestling, and most importantly ring psychology. This showed in Bret's wrestling style, as it's said every move Bret Hart used in a match was to set up for his legendary submission hold, the Sharpshooter.

Bret Hart did just about all one could do in the WWF. Bret could very well have written the book on how to put on a great feud, as he has had legendary wars with Shawn Michaels, Steve Austin, his brother Owen Hart, and Jerry Lawler. He could also write the book on how to put on a legendary specialty match, having many of them to his name, including WrestleMania 13 vs. Austin in a Submission Match, WrestleMania 12 vs. Shawn Michaels in an Iron Man match, and SummerSlam 94 vs. Owen Hart in a Steel Cage.

Some of Bret's accomplishments can be measured, like his 7 world titles between the WWF and WCW, or his 3 PWI Match of the Year awards. Some of his accomplishments are less tangible, like the insane pop he and Davey Boy Smith received during their Intercontinental Championship match at SummerSlam, or his godlike reputation in Canada. Any way you cut it, Bret Hart is one of the greatest figures to ever come through professional wrestling.

Shawn Michaels

The boyhood dream of Shawn Michaels didn't just come true, it became a legend. Shawn Michaels had always wanted to be a World Champion, but little did he know he would be one of the best wrestlers America would ever see. The story of the Heartbreak Kid is one of hard work. He worked his way up through small regional promotions until he became a tag team specialist in the AWA. From there, he and his partner Marty Jannetty moved up to the WWF, where the duo quickly became one of the most popular tag teams the company had. After their famous split, which saw Michaels throw Jannetty through the window of Brutus Beefcake's Barber Shop, Michaels would sky rocket to success.

Shawn's legacy is one that stretches out from his WWF debut to his retirement. Some will remember Shawn for his boy toy years, where he and manager The Sensational Sherri were two of the biggest villains the WWF had to offer. Some will remember him for being part of Degeneration X, arguably the most successful stable in the company's history. Some will remember him as the innovator of the Ladder match and the Hell in a Cell match. Some will remember him for being Mr. Wrestlemania, the man who never seemed to disappoint on the biggest stage of them all.

Regardless how you remember Shawn Michaels, it's obvious that he is one of the most influential and most enjoyable performers in the history of professional wrestling.

Terry Funk

Many contemporary fans know Terry Funk for his middle aged and crazy gimmick, a man with little regard for his own well being; a man willing to wrap himself up in barbed wire to get the audience to pop. However, Terry Funk’s stint in ECW is nothing compared to the legendary work he put on during the prime of his wrestling career.

Before growing to be middle aged and crazy, Terry Funk wrestled all over the country in various NWA promotions. He held numerous titles in the various regions before eventually beating the legendary Jack Brisco for the NWA World Heavyweight Championship. Funk would hold onto the belt for 14 months before dropping it to another legend of wrestling, Harley Race. After his World Championship reign ended, Terry Funk rededicated his career to tag wrestling with his brother Dory, and the two wrestled all over the world, from the US to Puerto Rico to Japan, and won belts in numerous different promotions.

Even as the days of the regional promotions came to an end, Terry still managed to be successful as companies like the WWF and WCW began to take over. Terry would have some success in tag team wrestling in the WWF as he continued to team with his brother Dory, and he’d have solo success in WCW as he feuded with Ric Flair and Ricky Steamboat.

So when voting, remember that Terry Funk didn’t get famous for putting himself through hellish matches in ECW, he didn’t get famous as Chainsaw Charlie in the WWF, he got famous for putting on great, classic matches back in the territory days.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

Terry M.F. Funk

Two words come to mind when it comes to the guy from Texas:

Longevity & adaptability

I really think the only person to have a longer career than Funk is Mae Young (she has 8-9 DECADES of working). It wasn't just because he was very good; the guy was well aware that he had to change with the times and places, and he did. The guy has managed to work all over the world, if that ain't a sign of him being good, I don't know what is.


The other two are just products of how they were booked. tbh

- Bret Hart and his "darting promo" eyes was constantly booked as being the best ever enough though he was as charismatic as the sand paper his voice would end up sounding like. That and he wanted to win all the fucking time.

- HBK worked with some of the best wrestlers the WWF/WWE had. How can you possibly suck versus Austin, Taker (after 1996 of course), and Cena? Razor Ramon and Jeff Jarrett were also very good in the early-mid 1990's. Diesel wasn't bad at what he did, either.

 

[Uncle Phatso]

I'm not gonna lie, I've told J that I wasn't a fan of Bret. I didn't like him as a kid, and I still don't. But one thing is for sure, that now being older and looking more into it. Bret did a shit ton for the WWE. He was one of the best ever.

Hbk is another iconic performer. I wasn't around to see him or Terry Funk when they started. But Hbk as a performer was just about as close to great as you can get. He did some things like overselling in matches that I personally try to frown on. But you can't argue about any of his award winning matches.

But personally I've seen Terry Funk take the cake. I wasn't around for his hey days. Most of us wern't either. But I have read up on his Legacy. He was just a great all around wrestler. He adapted his styles to stay with the times. And because of that I believe that he is deffinaly more Hof worthy than Hbk and Bret.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

I voted for Bret Hart and it really becomes an easy choice when you compare him to the other two contenders.

Bret vs Funk

Terry Funk's statistics are more misleading than revealing. In a nutshell Funk's biggest achievements in wrestling are:

1. His 14 month title reign
2. His tag team with his brother Dory.
3. His feud with Ric Flair in 1989.
4. Longlevity and Hardcore matches.

Now, I have issues with that 14 month title reign of his. It came at a time when wrestling was not televised every week on television. It came during the days of the territory era and wrestlers could remain fresh for a long time. In effect a 14 month title reign in the territory era is comparable to a 6 month title reign in Bret's era at the very maximum. Bret as we know has been champion multiple times and has also held the belt for long intervals. So I would say that Bret trumps Funk in this regard.

Bret also trumps Funk when it comes to legendary feuds. Funk has had maybe one or two great feuds in his career and I believe that Bret's has had more classic feuds with the likes of Austin, Owen, Lawler and HBK. Even quality wise, I would say that Bret's feuds are much better than those of Funk's.

Bret's performance as a tag team wrestler is also comparable to that of Funk's. The Hart Foundation was as good a tag team as the Funk's and so on this point, they are comparable.

As for hardcore matches, changing his style and longlevity, Funk is much overrated in all these aspects. His hardcore matches were awesome in brutality but are they better than Bret's matches? Some of the matches may be equal in quality but most of Bret's matches are better than the majority of Funk's matches. His longlevity is much appreciated by the IWC but he did not matter much in the bigger promotions in his advanced age. He only mattered in a glorified indy company and even there his style of matches brought more disrepute to the business than acclaim. Now Bret while going out of the WWF also brought disrepute to the business so I think that they are equal on this point.

So, to sum up Bret beats Funk in terms of being a champion and in terms of quality and quantity of feuds and matches. There is no place that Funk beats Bret and so Bret deserves to go into the HOF more than Funk.

Bret vs Shawn.

I won't go as long as I went in the Bret vs Funk comparison because this is an oft repeated topic of conversation amongst most wrestling fans. What I will say though, is that Bret superseeded HBK in terms of being a draw and also in terms of title wins. As far as quality of feuds and matches are concerned, Bret is HBK's equal in every single way. So I would put Bret over Shawn too.

Vote for Bret people!!!

 

[LSN80]

I voted for Bret Hart and it really becomes an easy choice when you compare him to the other two contenders.

I don't think it's an easy choice whatsoever, but ok, Ill bite.

Now, I have issues with that 14 month title reign of his. It came at a time when wrestling was not televised every week on television. It came during the days of the territory era and wrestlers could remain fresh for a long time. In effect a 14 month title reign in the territory era is comparable to a 6 month title reign in Bret's era at the very maximum. Bret as we know has been champion multiple times and has also held the belt for long intervals. So I would say that Bret trumps Funk in this regard.

What you fail to mention about his time in the territories is that when he was champion, he defended the belt everywhere that the NWA was sanctioned. It wasn't as if he was just defending the belt in Oklahoma or Kentucky, he was defending the belt in the US, Mexico, Japan, Puerto Rico, and Canada, amongst others. If anything, it was Bret who had more restrictions when it came to where and against who he defended his title against. Combine that with the fact that he wrestled both as a single's star and as a tag team wrestler for over 20 years simultaneously and that makes his 14 month title run all the more impressive.

Bret also trumps Funk when it comes to legendary feuds. Funk has had maybe one or two great feuds in his career and I believe that Bret's has had more classic feuds with the likes of Austin, Owen, Lawler and HBK. Even quality wise, I would say that Bret's feuds are much better than those of Funk's.

Another highly debatable point. The one you have dead wrong is when you say he had "maybe one or two" great feuds. Only if you add, say, 10 or 12 to that. During his 14 month title reign alone, he had great feuds with Jerry Lawler, Dusty Rhodes, Jack Brisco, Harley Race, and the Great Muta, amongst others. He also had vicious feuds with Ric Flair and Mick Foley, and that doesn't even touch on his feuds alongside his brother Dory. The Briscoes and Funks were one of the greatest tag team feuds in history due to them being natural rivals with the Briscoes being from Oklahoma and The Funks from Texas. They also feuded with DickMurdoch and Dusty Rhodes, the Invaders, and The Sheik and Abdullah the Butcher, amongst others. Funk also wrestled in an era, specifically when he was wrestling men like Jack Brisco, where it was less common to see them go under 60 minutes. His longevity provided him the opportunity to have more legendary feuds then Bret, and he did.

Bret's performance as a tag team wrestler is also comparable to that of Funk's. The Hart Foundation was as good a tag team as the Funk's and so on this point, they are comparable.

The thing about the Funk's is that they wrestled together as a tag team from the late 60's to the late 80's. That's over 20 years of being together as a tag team. Not only that, but Terry maintained his single's success as well despite tagging with his brother for 20 years. When his brother was champion for 4 years, he would go into territories before his brother and challenge the top babyface, and only if they could beat Terry, they could fight Dory. They were a tag team in every sense of the word.

As for hardcore matches, changing his style and longlevity, Funk is much overrated in all these aspects. His hardcore matches were awesome in brutality but are they better than Bret's matches? Some of the matches may be equal in quality but most of Bret's matches are better than the majority of Funk's matches. His longlevity is much appreciated by the IWC but he did not matter much in the bigger promotions in his advanced age. He only mattered in a glorified indy company and even there his style of matches brought more disrepute to the business than acclaim. Now Bret while going out of the WWF also brought disrepute to the business so I think that they are equal on this point.

I think you're making the mistake of confusing Funk as just being the hardcore legend here. His match quality back in the 60's into the 80's was just as high of quality as anything Bret produced. From his marathon matches with Jack Brisco to his I Quit match with Ric Flair, he adapted with the times, and still produced high quality matches despite wrestling decades apart. It's not as if he was churning out crap in the 80's when he changed his style. You call him overrated, I call it "remaining relevant." I think Bob Backlund, Stan Hansen, Bruiser Brody, Tito Santana, and Ted Dibiase Sr., amongst others, would agree. He only trained them and all.

So, to sum up Bret beats Funk in terms of being a champion and in terms of quality and quantity of feuds and matches. There is no place that Funk beats Bret and so Bret deserves to go into the HOF more than Funk.

Unless youre counting longevity of match quality, feuds, training legends, and his tag team with his brother Dory. I don't fault you for not being familar with Funk's career because it was well before either of our times, but he wasn't just an ECW spectacle. He was one of the greatest athletes the wrestling business has ever seen, and it showed in his adaptility, longevity, and ability to manage training, a single's career, and a tag team at the same time.

I won't go as long as I went in the Bret vs Funk comparison because this is an oft repeated topic of conversation amongst most wrestling fans. What I will say though, is that Bret superseeded HBK in terms of being a draw and also in terms of title wins. As far as quality of feuds and matches are concerned, Bret is HBK's equal in every single way. So I would put Bret over Shawn too.

I voted for Shawn because I trly believe he's the greatest wrestler Ive ever seen. Shawn was like Funk in terms of adapting himself as his career wore on in that he put over countless stars after being the star in the mid- late nineties. His ability to bounce back from what appeared to be a career ending injury and return five years later and have an absolute classic of a match in his first match back was astounding. He was arrogant, brash, and controversial, but he backed it up in the ring. As his career wore on, not only did he put over numerous superstars but he managed to make every one of them look like a million dollars along the way. He was a better talker then either Funk or Hart, was at least equal in terms of match quality, and returned to wrestling different then he left. He could have stayed retired and been a sure-fire HOF but he returned and competed at the same level he left at, made many a star, and went out still at the peak of his career. There's not a wrong choice in the bunch as I think it's very close, but I voted for Shawn.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

I voted for Bret Hart and it really becomes an easy choice when you compare him to the other two contenders.

Bret vs Funk

Terry Funk's statistics are more misleading than revealing. In a nutshell Funk's biggest achievements in wrestling are:

1. His 14 month title reign
2. His tag team with his brother Dory.
3. His feud with Ric Flair in 1989.
4. Longlevity and Hardcore matches.

The guy has been around longer than most people who posts here parents and he only has four accomplishments?

BTW, here is a list of all the titles Funk has won in his bazillion year career:

NWA (Texas) World Tag Team titles w/Dory Funk Jr. defeating Kurt & Karl Von Brauner (June 18, 1968);
NWA (Texas) World Tag Team titles w/Dory Funk Jr. defeating The Infernos (October 17, 1968);
NWA Western States Tag Team titles w/Ricky Romero defeating ??? (??, 1969);
NWA Western States Heavyweight title defeating ??? (May 7, 1970);
NWA Western States Heavyweight title defeating Bull Ramos (July 7, 1970);
NWA Western States Tag Team titles w/Ricky Romero defeating Bull Ramos & The Beast (August ??, 1970);
NWA Florida Televison title defeating Buddy Austin in a tournament (March 18, 1971);
NWA Florida Tag Team titles w/Dory Funk Jr. defeating Jack & Jerry Brisco (March 30, 1971);
NWA (Florida) Southern Heavyweight title defeating Johnny Walker (April 14, 1971);
NWA Western States Heavyweight title defeating ??? (May ??, 1971);
NWA (JWA) International Tag Team titles w/Dory Funk Jr. defeating Antonio Inoki & Giant Baba (December 7, 1971);
NWA Western States Heavyweight title defeating Ciclon Negro (????, 1972);
NWA (Amarillo) Brass Knuckles title defeating Dick Murdoch (July 13, 1972);
NWA Western States Heavyweight title defeating Ciclon Negro (????, 1973);
NWA Missouri Heavyweight title defeating Johnny Valentine (Febuary 10, 1973);
NWA (Los Angeles) Americas Heavyweight title defeating Victor Rivera (July 3, 1973);
NWA (Amarillo) International Tag Team titles w/Dory Funk Jr. defeating Cyclone Negro & Killer Karl Kox (October ??, 1973);
NWA Western States Heavyweight title defeating Kung Fu Lee for the vacant title (October 25, 1973);
NWA Western States Heavyweight title defeating Siegfried Stanke (November ??, 1974);
NWA (Amarillo) International Heavyweight title defeating Ciclon Negro (June 21, 1975);
NWA (Mid Atlantic) United States Heavyweight title defeating Paul Jones in a tournament (November 9, 1975);
NWA World Heavyweight title defeating Jack Brisco (December 10, 1975);
NWA (Amarillo) International Heavyweight title defeating Super Destroyer (July 1, 1976);
NWA (Amarillo) Brass Knuckles title defeating ??? (October ??, 1977);
NWA Georgia Tag Team titles w/Dory Funk Jr. defeating Jack & Jerry Brisco in a tournament (November 23, 1978);
NWA (Florida) Southern Heavyweight title defeating Dick Slater (December 30, 1978);
WWC World Tag Team titles w/Dory Funk Jr. defeating The Invaders (April 6, 1979);
NWA Florida Heavyweight title defeating Steve Keirn in a tournament (September ??, 1979);
WWC World Tag Team titles w/Dory Funk Jr. defeating The Invaders (December 22, 1979);
NWA (Los Angeles) World Tag Team titles w/Dory Funk Jr. defeating The Twin Devils (Febuary ??, 1980);
SCW (Texas) World Tag Team titles w/Dory Funk Jr. Awarded (August ??, 1980);
NWA (Georgia) National Televison title defeating Terry Taylor (October ??, 1980);
SCW Southwest Heavyweight title defeating ???? in a tournament (????, 1981);
SCW Southwest Tag Team titles w/Wahoo McDaniel defeating Gino Hernandez & Tully Blanchard (August 15, 1981);
NWA (Florida) North American Tag Team titles w/Dory Funk Jr. defeating Jack & Jerry Brisco (January 1, 1982);
USWA Unified World Heavyweight title defeating Jerry Lawler (November 5, 1990);
ECW Television title defeating Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka (October 1, 1993);
ECW World Heavyweight title defeating Sabu (December 26, 1993);
ECW World Heavyweight title defeating Raven (April 13, 1997);
WWF World Tag Team titles w/Cactus Jack defeating Billy Gunn & Jesse James (March 29, 1998);
WCW World Hardcore title defeating Norman Smiley (April 16, 2000);
WCW United States Heavyweight title defeating Lance Storm (September 22, 2000);
WCW World Hardcore title defeating Crowbar (December 17, 2000);
3PW Heavyweight title defeating Gary Wolf & Sandman in a three way match (June 21, 2003);

Biased or not, I think you really short changed him with such a short list of shit he has done.

Now, I have issues with that 14 month title reign of his. It came at a time when wrestling was not televised every week on television.

Newsflash.. Most of Bret's work wasn't televised every week either. That and there's no telling how much Funk has actually worked of the years. He could very well be the Gene Simmons of pro wrestling.. 'Cept instead of pussy, it was matches.

It came during the days of the territory era and wrestlers could remain fresh for a long time.

It also came in an era were if a wrestler wanted to make money, he would have to boogie on down the road to make the money.

In effect a 14 month title reign in the territory era is comparable to a 6 month title reign in Bret's era at the very maximum.

Considering the guy wrestled any and every where that would allow his crazy ass to in that year and some change, I don't get this conversion at all. Must be the "biased as fuck" units I don't know about.

Bret as we know has been champion multiple times and has also held the belt for long intervals. So I would say that Bret trumps Funk in this regard.

So.. Huh? Bret's big WWF hey day was only about 6 years at the most. Funk's year and some change reign comes to about 20% of Bret's hey day for the WWF. And that doesn't even include the forty years this asshole has been around.

Bret also trumps Funk when it comes to legendary feuds. Funk has had maybe one or two great feuds in his career and I believe that Bret's has had more classic feuds with the likes of Austin, Owen, Lawler and HBK. Even quality wise, I would say that Bret's feuds are much better than those of Funk's.

Vs. Lawler MIGHT be stretching it when you call it "legendary." And no offense dude, but come on. Those four versus The Briscos, Dick Murdoch, Dusty Rhodes, and Ric Flair, Jerry Lawler? I understand how not being around or not knowing about something would make you bias towards the thing you DO know. However, don't dog the other side.. Makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about.

Bret's performance as a tag team wrestler is also comparable to that of Funk's. The Hart Foundation was as good a tag team as the Funk's and so on this point, they are comparable.

A few years together is better than 20+ years? You must be Canadian.

As for hardcore matches, changing his style and longlevity, Funk is much overrated in all these aspects. His hardcore matches were awesome in brutality but are they better than Bret's matches?

Bret did hardcore matches?

Some of the matches may be equal in quality but most of Bret's matches are better than the majority of Funk's matches.

Quick question, and please answer honestly, outside of a fucking overrated as dog shit iron man match, that match with Austin passing out at the end, and that one about the screw job, what Bret Hart matches do you know off the top of your head?

This has nothing to do with me advocating for Funk so much; it is me being curious if you really know what you are talking about.

His longlevity is much appreciated by the IWC but he did not matter much in the bigger promotions in his advanced age. He only mattered in a glorified indy company and even there his style of matches brought more disrepute to the business than acclaim. Now Bret while going out of the WWF also brought disrepute to the business so I think that they are equal on this point.

Comparing indy feds to the WWE? Noice.

So, to sum up Bret beats Funk in terms of being a champion and in terms of quality and quantity of feuds and matches. There is no place that Funk beats Bret and so Bret deserves to go into the HOF more than Funk.

You listed four freaking feuds and one accomplishment of Bret. Quality is subjective, but a lot of Bret Hart's stuff is vastly overrated by an internet crowd who frankly didn't care or don't know what the f' they are talking about. If the kids today don't care for "real mat technicians" (whatever the f that is suppose to mean considering pro rasstlin' is fake), I guarantee ya that they didn't care in Bret's hey day.

 

[The Prodigal Anti-Lemming]

The comparisons between Hart and Michaels could go either way. I voted for Shawn, but I wouldn’t argue with the logic of anyone whose vote went to “the Hitman.”

Funk is quite another story. I just don’t believe he should get into the hall of fame this early, certainly not ahead of Lewis, Gotch, Gorgeous George or Tiger Mask. The thing about Funk is that he is the one “old-school” wrestler that has been active within the past decade, and thus is the one guy a lot of modern fans associate with the ‘70s and ‘80s.

But...let’s not forget this very important detail:

He was not the top wrestler of the 1970s, and anyone who suggests to me otherwise has been in the sun too long.

He was not the top wrestler of the 1980s.

Nor was he the top wrestler of the ‘90s, and I don’t care how many ladders he backflipped off of.

Funk was, to put it simply, a wrestler who hung on long enough to be remembered by today’s generation. But his career accomplishments are far, far behind those of Bruno Sammartino, whose pair of WWWF title reigns lasted longer than some fans have been alive, or Harley Race, who carried the NWA World title eight times during the period in which Funk climbed the mountain merely once, or even Verne Gagne and Nick Bockwinkel, the two most dominant wrestlers in the AWA in Funk’s prime.

Sure, he managed to remain relevant far longer than some wrestlers. Then again, so did Abdullah the Butcher and The Sheik, and I haven’t heard their names mentioned this early in the balloting. Yes, he won dozens of regional titles, but I could name fifteen wrestlers of the same era off the top of my head who won as many or more. Yes, he held the ECW title, but let’s face it, most of the other wrestlers that held that belt will probably never be included in this hall. What many seem to forget when citing Funk’s ECW accomplishments was that ECW was a distant, distant third to the big two of the WWF and WCW.

Don’t’ misconstrue me here; I’m not belittling Funk’s legend—clearly, he is one—I’m just keeping things in perspective by reciting the facts, and the fact is Funk’s overall resume does not stack up particularly well against the Sammartinos, Races, etc.

Ultimately, I'm not arguing against Funk's inclusion in the hall...I'm only arguing against his inclusion this early.

 

[Mac Attack]

Bret Hart

Could there be biased considering I live in Calgary yes, however I'll try to keep my reasoning for Bret Hart short and sweet. Bret Hart is a more well known, well respected, and better in ring competitior than the other two men. The Hall of Fame isn't necessarily about how much Gold you had or how much money you made, but your impact on wrestling as a whole. Bret Hart has made the status of wrestling rise in the eyes of many. He is a loved character much like Michaels. He had the ability to fight through anything much like Funk. However in all reality Bret Hart brings a mix of both likability and ability which should allow for him to go over in this round.

Reasons not to vote for Michaels

He has a storied career however I personally feel a lot of love that is been given to him has been given to him due to his more recent retirement, his very recent induction into WWE HOF, and his overall still appeal. I do believe that he is a high quality star however in this case Bret Hart wins the round.

Reasons not to vote for Funk

The every day wrestling fan when thinking of people who impacted wrestling will NOT know Funk. The common wrestling fan will know Hart and Michaels. However considering this is a wrestling forum I feel that is how Funk got some of his votes. But put that aside and you end up realizing that although he had a long career and has had many titles his matches fail in comparison to matches that Hart and Michaels have competed in.

 

[Wade's Public Transit Bomb]

I am putting more care to this than I expected. Thanks Myraid and Marcios. <3

Bret Hart is a more well known, well respected, and better in ring competitior than the other two men.

Subjective on all accounts. You admitted that you are Canadian, so maybe that is why Bret wins those points.

The Hall of Fame isn't necessarily about how much Gold you had or how much money you made, but your impact on wrestling as a whole.

Bret was just lucky to not look like some musclehead freak at that time. He looked perfectly healthy as well. Same goes with HBK. It can't be a mere coincidence that they push these two good around the steroid time when there were guys on the roster that easily fit that larger than life look Vince loves (Razor comes to mind)

Bret Hart has made the status of wrestling rise in the eyes of many. He is a loved character much like Michaels. He had the ability to fight through anything much like Funk. However in all reality Bret Hart brings a mix of both likability and ability which should allow for him to go over in this round.

Like HBK, he wasn't a business draw. I know Canadians are patriotic and loyal to Bret, but it's the true.

He has a storied career however I personally feel a lot of love that is been given to him has been given to him due to his more recent retirement, his very recent induction into WWE HOF, and his overall still appeal. I do believe that he is a high quality star however in this case Bret Hart wins the round.

I think it interesting you say this. Bret Hart had a lot given to him to recent years to make him look better as well. Myraid could only state four major feuds for the Pink and Black guy, isn't that indicative that Bret didn't make as big of a deal of himself like you and Myraid implied?

The every day wrestling fan when thinking of people who impacted wrestling will NOT know Funk. The common wrestling fan will know Hart and Michaels.

Can you define "every day wrestling fan" for me? I don't think most will know Bret Hart either. HBK would get the nod simply because he has much more relevant to the WWE fans than the other two in recent years.

But put that aside and you end up realizing that although he had a long career and has had many titles his matches fail in comparison to matches that Hart and Michaels have competed in.

Okay. I've already said the big three matches people commonly associated Bret Hart with and all the great talent HBK has worked with.

IF Funk's matches don't.. Err.. Match up to HBK and Hart's work, you could easily blame that he wrestled in an era were all the big names wrestled each other at one point or another. I liked the Funk vs Flair match I've seen, however.. I wouldn't say it was Flair's best match or opponent. Why should I take anything from Funk in this case?

 

[ThUnDeRpHoEnIx]

I voted for Shawn Michaels over the Hitman.I couldnt vote for Funk because I dont know a lot about him.

Dont hate me but I think Shawn Michaels is the greatest man WWE has ever seen.He was the total package.He had the looks,charmisma and the ability in ring to create a match that might not look good on paper and turn it into a 5 star match.He was only held back by his lack of a draw.It was one of those rare cases where size didnt matter, everyone knew HBK could win against any odds eg Summerslam 2006 DX vs the McMahons.HBK alone against Vince and Shane while HHH was taken out by Big Show.HBK survived the moves untill HHH came back.HBK could also adapt to any style,such as vs Kurt Angle at Wrestlemania 21 or Shawn Michaels vs Vince McMahon at Wrestlemania 22 showing Shawns Hardcore side.

I may get hated by the Canadians for this but to me, out of Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels,Shawn was the better wrestler.While Shawn could do any style while Bret Hart was restricted to technical wrestling. Kurt Angle is the closest person I can think that matches Bret Harts technical abilitites.Watch Wrestlemania 21 and watch Shawn Michaels match Kurt Angle move for move,then try to find a match where Kurt Angle can do what Shawn does. Shawn Michaels also had longetivity unlike Bret Hart even though that wasnt his fault.Shawn Michaels should've retired after his Back Injury from vsing Undertaker but he came back and in his return match he gave a great match in Shawn vs HHH Summerslam 02.

But then again I might be completely wrong and only vote for Shawn because we have the same name.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

Bret vs Funk



The guy has been around longer than most people who posts here parents and he only has four accomplishments?

BTW, here is a list of all the titles Funk has won in his bazillion year career:

I never said that these are the only four things that Funk has achieved but rather the most remarkable things that he has done in his career. And that huge list of titles does not mean much because even I can go to Wiki and copy paste a similar list of achievements in Bret's case. Also Funk had the advantage of wrestling in an era where you could wrestle for more than one promotion at a time whereas Bret was commited to wrestle for the WWE once he signed with them.

Biased or not, I think you really short changed him with such a short list of shit he has done.

READ. what. I. wrote.

In a nutshell Funk's biggest achievements in wrestling are:

I would expect you to understand the difference between biggest and only.

Newsflash.. Most of Bret's work wasn't televised every week either. That and there's no telling how much Funk has actually worked of the years. He could very well be the Gene Simmons of pro wrestling.. 'Cept instead of pussy, it was matches.

How come Bret's work was not televised. Raw started at the time of Bret Hart's main event rise and before that too. Before that too you had Prime time wrestling where matches were televised even though it was not live.

What I want to say is that though Funk has wrestled lots of matches, the matches that the audience of one city would see would not be viewed by the audience of another city because wrestling was not televised in that era. In that manner he could remain fresh for a longer time. The audience had little chance of getting bored of seeing him day in and day out as it was in the case of Bret and the wrestlers that followed.

Considering the guy wrestled any and every where that would allow his crazy ass to in that year and some change, I don't get this conversion at all. Must be the "biased as fuck" units I don't know about.

As far as I understand, you become a champion on the basis of popularity and not the amount of matches you wrestle. Because of there being no television broadcast of wrestling in Funk's heydey he could remain fresh for a long time. Remaining fresh aided his popularity unlike in the case of Bret who could easily get stale as he was on TV every week.

So.. Huh? Bret's big WWF hey day was only about 6 years at the most. Funk's year and some change reign comes to about 20% of Bret's hey day for the WWF. And that doesn't even include the forty years this asshole has been around.

Longer does not always mean better. The wrestling business has evolved into such a thing these days that 14 month long reigns will result in a decrease of the TV ratings and attendance.

Also at least Bret was the top guy of wrestling for at least 3 years. I cannot say the same thing about Funk even when he was champion. He wasn't the face of the NWA at any point of time. There were always guys around him who were more popular or more hated than him. Despite his longlevity he was not the biggest star of any era, unlike Bret who was definately the biggest star in wrestling from 1993 to 1996.

Vs. Lawler MIGHT be stretching it when you call it "legendary." And no offense dude, but come on. Those four versus The Briscos, Dick Murdoch, Dusty Rhodes, and Ric Flair, Jerry Lawler? I understand how not being around or not knowing about something would make you bias towards the thing you DO know. However, don't dog the other side.. Makes you look like you don't know what you are talking about.

The feud with Lawler won both PWI as well as Wrestling Observer Newsletter best feud awards.

You can also include the mini feuds that he had with Backlund and Diesel as great feuds. Now let us come to Funk. As I said, his feud with Flair was a great one. As for the other feuds that you mentioned please mention a few remarkable incidents and matches from those feuds that are remembered even today. How much did those feuds draw? Did these feuds change the direction of any of the careers of the wrestlers involved in a positive way? Was there a great story behind these feuds? These are some of the criterias for judging the greatness of a feud. Either prove it that the feuds you mentioned were great or concede this point.

A few years together is better than 20+ years? You must be Canadian.

Bret was in the Hart Foundation for seven years and the Hart Foundation is remembered as a great tag team as they participated in a number of good feuds and matches.

Bret did hardcore matches?

Bret wrestled in great matches that are as good as, if not better, than Funk's hardcore matches.

Quick question, and please answer honestly, outside of a fucking overrated as dog shit iron man match, that match with Austin passing out at the end, and that one about the screw job, what Bret Hart matches do you know off the top of your head?

This has nothing to do with me advocating for Funk so much; it is me being curious if you really know what you are talking about.

Of the top of my head some of Bret's great matches are:

Hart Foundation vs Demolition Brothers 2 out of 3 falls match( Summerslam 1990)
Hart vs Mr Perfect(Summerslam 1991)
Hart vs Piper( Mania 8)
Hart vs Bulldog( Summerslam 1992)
Hart vs HBK( Survivor Series 1992)
Bret vs Owen( WrestleMania 10)
Bret vs Owen Cage match( Summerslam 1994)
Bret vs Austin Survivor Series 1996
Bret vs Austin vs Taker vs Vader Final Four 1997
Hart Foundation vs Austin, Shamrock, Goldust and LOD Canadian Stampede 1997

There are obviously many more such matches but these are his most memorable matches outside the matches that you mentioned.

Comparing indy feds to the WWE? Noice.

What are you talking about? I never even mentioned any feud in the paragraph you quoted here. I am just saying that this longlevity of Funk that the IWC rate so highly is nothing more than a small lower midcard stint in the top promotions and a main event stint in an indy.

You listed four freaking feuds and one accomplishment of Bret. Quality is subjective, but a lot of Bret Hart's stuff is vastly overrated by an internet crowd who frankly didn't care or don't know what the f' they are talking about. If the kids today don't care for "real mat technicians" (whatever the f that is suppose to mean considering pro rasstlin' is fake), I guarantee ya that they didn't care in Bret's hey day.

Vastly overrated? Yes that is why Bret is a 5 time World Champion and has wrestled in numerous great matches in his time and participated in a number of great feuds. And I can list more feuds and more matches and accomplishments of Bret. I mentioned some of his best stuff. Maybe you need to improve your reading comprehension skills. Best is not equivalent to only.

For Bret to have been overrated you need to mention feuds of his that sucked but are highly acclaimed by the IWC. Same thing with matches. Till you do that your comments would not be taken seriously.

 

[PsychoBlack]

My vote goes for Funk here. The guy is a legend in every sense of the word. His feuds with Brisco and Flair could quite possibly be two of the greatest of all time. He was never the Top guy in wrestling but despite that fact he continued to draw huge numbers all around the world.

Now the reason that I wont vote for Bret or Shawn is because neither of them ever really seemed to be as good as everyone claimed them to be. We'll start with Bret.

He didn't draw a damn thing in his time as WWF's "top" guy and was simply handed the belt because of Hogans departure. Him being the "top" guy damn near put Vince out of business. Now for all the Bret was so great in the ring shit that i hear, his matches really all looked the same and plenty of them were quite boring as well as overrated. During Bret's prime when he was supposedly the best in the world their were still about 5 or 6 guys that trumped him in popularity, Sting, Savage, Flair, Luger, Hogan, and even HBK all trumped him in popularity. So, while Bret's career and accolades are HoF worthy he does not deserve it so soon.

Shawn is a different case from Bret. Yes he was Popular. Yes he had great matches and yes he had the accomplishments. The thing that always keeps me from voting Shawn is that i feel like he had things handed to him. He always just seemed to jump into the title picture instead of earning it from outside feuds like everyone else does and i just never thought that was fair to the other superstars.

 

[Mac Attack]

I am putting more care to this than I expected. Thanks Myraid and Macios. <3

I'm going to enjoy arguing/agreeing with some of your points here.

Subjective on all accounts. You admitted that you are Canadian, so maybe that is why Bret wins those points.

I said there was possible bias however there is one thing I want to say and that is this entire Hall of Fame is subjective. There is no clear way to say who had more impact then others. There is no clear way to formulate who is in an out which is why it is all subjective.

Bret was just lucky to not look like some musclehead freak at that time. He looked perfectly healthy as well. Same goes with HBK. It can't be a mere coincidence that they push these two good around the steroid time when there were guys on the roster that easily fit that larger than life look Vince loves (Razor comes to mind)

Well truth of the matter is, sometimes you just get lucky. Everything that happens in wrestling is done by chance. Someone decides what people do and people must follow it, so saying that luck played apart in it is true and I think it can't be used against him. The same case for luck could be said about Andre the Giant by bein lucky that he was massive.

Like HBK, he wasn't a business draw. I know Canadians are patriotic and loyal to Bret, but it's the truth.

I think this is arguable. It all depends on how you define a business draw. Personally I consider a business draw someone who had people following him and came to see him wrestle. When clearly you say that Canadians are patriotic and loyal to him. So saying he isn't a business draw is contradictory to the statement you made after it.

I think it interesting you say this. Bret Hart had a lot given to him to recent years to make him look better as well. Myraid could only state four major feuds for the Pink and Black guy, isn't that indicative that Bret didn't make as big of a deal of himself like you and Myraid implied?

Only Four Major Feuds really? Really? I didn't go to look at Myriad's post however I know there are more than 4. Here are just a few that I could think of which are MAJOR. He has countless amount of other feuds which were great as well

Hart vs Yokozuna
Hart vs Owen
Hart Foundation vs British Bulldogs
Hart vs Michaels
Hart vs Stone Cold
Hart vs Vince

Can you define "every day wrestling fan" for me?

When I think of every day wrestling fan I think of someone who casually watches Raw or Smackdown who has no interest in wrestling history, whose only real interest is to watch people fight. every day fans may or may not know wrestling is fake.

I don't think most will know Bret Hart either. HBK would get the nod simply because he has much more relevant to the WWE fans than the other two in recent years.

Well considering that bret Hart just recently appeared on Raw, recently appeared on Tough Enough and wrestled at Wrestlemania only last year I would assume they would know him.

IF Funk's matches don't.. Err.. Match up to HBK and Hart's work, you could easily blame that he wrestled in an era were all the big names wrestled each other at one point or another. I liked the Funk vs Flair match I've seen, however.. I wouldn't say it was Flair's best match or opponent. Why should I take anything from Funk in this case

You mentioned luck before, and the truth is this is tough luck. Yes FUnk could not do anything about this, however sometimes you must be in the right place at the right time.

 

[JGlass]

For me, it's gotta be Shawn. While Bret was certainly a top performer that could not only work a match but also electrify a crowd, Shawn was a move exciting performer and was just about as good as Bret was at working a crowd.

Funk shaped the industry, no doubt, and he was extremely influential in both brawling and technical style wrestling, and his ability to stay relevant over the course of five decades is nothing short of amazing, but he was never a top guy in any company for an extended period of time, and he was never the explosive yet reliable performer that Shawn Michaels was.

Don't sleep on Shawn. His career stretches out much longer than that of the Hitman, and he's put on more breathtaking matches at just one show than most guys have had in their entire career. What's more, Shawn never had any sort of fall from grace. Sure, Bret may have been a star until his career ended had it not ended so abruptly, but Shawn was a real superstar from the time he set out as a singles performer until his final match.

This vote is very close, as it should be. All three of these guys are some of the greatest to ever step in the squared circle. For me, though, Shawn is the best of the three. Sure, Funk had a huge impact on the industry and was a fantastic wrestler, but I'm sure in 20-30 years Shawn will be remembered as one of the all time greatest.

 

[Fizzy]

Back when he wrestled, I wasn't Shawn's biggest fan. I never liked his look, and never really paid attention to him unless he was in DX, or feuding with one of my favorite wrestlers. Well ad the old adage goes, you don't know what you have until it's gone. That goes for me dealing with Shawn. Once he retired, I reflected on all the moments he has given us in the past. All the show stealing matches he had, all the amazing moments he left us with, and how he overcame so much to be thought of as one of the best of all time. Since he has retired, I have found a new appreciation for everything Shawn has done. I've watched his matches countless times since then, and he has broken into my top five favorite wrestlers of all time.

It isn't that i'm not a fan of the other two. Terry Funk was one of the first wrestlers i've ever watched, and I respect him for everything he's done in the business. The guy is the definition of legend as is his entire family. While I was never a big Bret fan, he was a fantastic performer who deserves to make it into this hall one day. That day however, is not today. Shawn gets my vote.