Wrestlers with the whole package

[relentless1]

When we think of wrestlers we think of them as being good at this or that, what wrestlers in the entirety of the industry do you think had the complete package? Attributes such as:

Wrestling ability
Promo ability
Looks
Charisma
Gimmick
Longevity
Real world toughness

The man that springs to mind for me right away would be Kurt Angle. This guy had it all, everything I've posted above and then some, Who do you guys think is the complete pro wrestler from any era?

 

[Goldie]

I'm not sure about how tough he was... not that it matters really as marketability, promo skills, charisma, in ring work, longevity are the key factors.... but Randy Savage ticks the main boxes.

An instantly recognisable rock n' roll voice.... excellent in the ring, and he was equally comfortable playing a beloved babyface or a mega mega heel.
Savage could milk the crowd as a babyface seeking sympathy or was a heat magnet as a bad guy showing cowardice and employing cheap tactics.

 

[Wolf Pac]

Real world toughness and longevity shouldn't even be factors.

It's pro-wrestling which is fake fighting, not MMA and Boxing, so who cares how tough these guys are in real life. And Longevity is just a quantity > quality thing. Some guys have made more impact on the business in a short amount of time than most guys who have been in the business for years.

That being said...Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Wrestling ability: He was one of the best pure wrestlers on the planet before his neck injury and even after his neck injury, had the best in-ring year in WWE history in 2001.

Promo ability: Could make you pop and go crazy for a middle finger and a swear but could also cut great intense promos without the use of middle fingers and swears as evidenced by his ECW promos and could do great comedy promos too.

Charisma: The most popular star and face of the Attitude Era. One of the 3 faces on the Mount Rushmore of pro-wrestling. Biggest star to come along since Hulk Hogan.

Gimmick: The NWO may have changed the game with the anti-hero rebel character but it was Austin that took it to bigger heights than they did. Could play a great badass babyface and badass heel. Even his 2001 heel run is underrated as he played a great range of other heel characters: a psycho heel, an entertaining comedy heel and a good cowardly heel. His heel turn gets hated on for the stupidest fucking reason: because he wasn't playing a badass anymore, that's it. Doesn't mean he played a shit heel though. He was a great heel in 2001.

 

[OYDK]

The first guy I think of is Kurt Angle.

The second guy that comes to mind is Chris Jericho.

Wrestling ability: Jericho has widely been touted as one of the best ring workers in wrestling history over his 25 year career.

Promo ability: Not many can work the mic like Y2J. He held his own with The Rock when Rock was at his best and was never overshadowed in a back and forth. His work today is testament to his mic ability.

Looks: Jericho's a sexy beast.

Charisma: Whatever charisma is, Jericho has... IT! I'm sorry, I had to. Throughout his career people have either loved him or hated him with a passion.

Gimmick: Jericho has had about 5-6 different gimmicks and has made them all work.

Longevity: 25 years.

Toughness: Guy took down Goldberg and stood up to Brock Lesnar. Good enough for me.

 

[Wolf Pac]

Real world toughness and longevity shouldn't even be factors.

It's pro-wrestling which is fake fighting, not MMA and Boxing, so who cares how tough these guys are in real life. And Longevity is just a quantity > quality thing. Some guys have made more impact on the business in a short amount of time than most guys who have been in the business for years.

That being said...Stone Cold Steve Austin.

Wrestling ability: He was one of the best pure wrestlers on the planet before his neck injury and even after his neck injury, had the best in-ring year in WWE history in 2001.

Promo ability: Could make you pop and go crazy for a middle finger and a swear but could also cut great intense promos without the use of middle fingers and swears as evidenced by his ECW promos and could do great comedy promos too.

Charisma: The most popular star and face of the Attitude Era. One of the 3 faces on the Mount Rushmore of pro-wrestling. Biggest star to come along since Hulk Hogan.

Gimmick: The NWO may have changed the game with the anti-hero rebel character but it was Austin that took it to bigger heights than they did. Could play a great badass babyface and badass heel. Even his 2001 heel run is underrated as he played a great range of other heel characters: a psycho heel, an entertaining comedy heel and a good cowardly heel. His heel turn gets hated on for the stupidest fucking reason: because he wasn't playing a badass anymore, that's it. Doesn't mean he played a shit heel though. He was a great heel in 2001.

Forgot about Look but yeah Austin made wearing plain black tights, having a goatee and a bald head famous and badass just like Hogan made red and yellow famous. Another megastar, Goldberg, took on a similar badass look as Austin, which speaks volumes about the black tights, facial hair and bald look. And there was Bad News Brown before them, the look wasn't famous with him but he still looked badass.

Should also add that Austin played a great cocky arrogant funny heel in The Hollywood Blondes with stuff like A Flair For The Old. Him and Pillman were Edge & Christian before there was an Edge & Christian. Austin was also a funny heel in ECW with Monday Nyquill and Steve-O-Mania. Austin as a comedy performer really is underrated.

 

[LBGetBack]

Mr. Perfect
Randy Savage
Kurt Angle
Chris Jericho
Ric Flair

All very charismatic, all fantastic workers who could wrestle exciting matches as heels or faces.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

When we think of wrestlers we think of them as being good at this or that, what wrestlers in the entirety of the industry do you think had the complete package? Attributes such as:

Wrestling ability
Promo ability
Looks
Charisma
Gimmick
Longevity
Real world toughness

The man that springs to mind for me right away would be Kurt Angle. This guy had it all, everything I've posted above and then some, Who do you guys think is the complete pro wrestler from any era?

If you take out Longevity I would say The Rock but if The Rock didn't do Hollywood he would have lasted in the business for a long time. In fact you could argue that his successful Hollywood career would be an argument that he had Longevity.

 

[Bernkastel]

Real world toughness and longevity shouldn't even be factors.And Longevity is just a quantity > quality thing

Longevity is tied into drawing power. Longevity refers to the duration of drawing power. It's not simply quantity versus quality. It's a representation of quality and the duration of said quality. In the example of Austin, he was a tremendous drawing card over a short amount of time. For just a few years. He lacked longevity. Hulk Hogan was a tremendous drawing card over the time span of many years. He had more longevity than Austin.

When we think of wrestlers we think of them as being good at this or that, what wrestlers in the entirety of the industry do you think had the complete package? Attributes such as:

Wrestling ability
Promo ability
Looks
Charisma
Gimmick
Longevity
Real world toughness

The man that springs to mind for me right away would be Kurt Angle. This guy had it all, everything I've posted above and then some, Who do you guys think is the complete pro wrestler from any era?

I feel drawing power is equality as important as anything else on the list. A wrestler has to be able to sell tickets, or in the modern era, have the marketability to move merch or sell PPV's or network specials. I also consider promo skills [talking] just another aspect of charisma. Or in this case showmanship.

I think there are many, many fine examples of the "complete package" of wrestler, meaning that they exuded all the qualities the OP listed in addition to being able to draw on a high level.

I would say, based on drawing power and longevity, that the top 4 "complete packages" for me would be Jim Londos, Bruno Sammartino, Lou Thesz, and Hulk Hogan.

When talking about in ring ability, looks and persona, charisma and showmanship, longevity, and perceived toughness and how that translated into money I think those 4 are the best examples.

 

[Wolf Pac]

Longevity is tied into drawing power. Longevity refers to the duration of drawing power. It's not simply quantity versus quality. It's a representation of quality and the duration of said quality. In the example of Austin, he was a tremendous drawing card over a short amount of time. For just a few years. He lacked longevity. Hulk Hogan was a tremendous drawing card over the time span of many years. He had more longevity than Austin.

That's just your opinion, other people have different definitions of longevity and I certainly don't tie drawing power into it. And if drawing power was tied into longevity, why are other people picking guys like Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Mr. Perfect etc? Those guys weren't big draws. Hulk Hogan was a tremendous drawing card over the time span of many years, you're right, but some people also use this same argument for John Cena, which is absolutely ridiculous since this guy has brought more negative to wrestling than positive and the only reason he has been WWE's top draw for so long is because they refuse to push anyone else as their top guy. No quality there with him, just quantity. This is why tying drawing power into longevity is stupid and is a stupid excuse to discredit guys like Austin and Rock to make Cena look better than them, when Austin and Rock have made more impact, drew more money in their short amount of time and are way more important to the business than Cena has ever been in his 10+ years.

 

[Kizzani]

When we think of wrestlers we think of them as being good at this or that, what wrestlers in the entirety of the industry do you think had the complete package? Attributes such as:

Wrestling ability
Promo ability
Looks
Charisma
Gimmick
Longevity
Real world toughness

The man that springs to mind for me right away would be Kurt Angle. This guy had it all, everything I've posted above and then some, Who do you guys think is the complete pro wrestler from any era?

HBK
Kevin Nash
I think both have proven time and time again they can easily rise to the top in every category

As for new and up and coming I would say Corbin, he lacks some in the wrestling and promo departement but given time he can be molded. I still recall seeing Cena the first tiem and I was like LOL, yeah that crap won't last a white rapper, seriously. But fans seem to love it, so I was wrong.

But Undertaker....nuff said.

 

[Bernkastel]

That's just your opinion, other people have different definitions of longevity and I certainly don't tie drawing power into it. And if drawing power was tied into longevity, why are other people picking guys like Kurt Angle, Chris Jericho, Mr. Perfect etc? Those guys weren't big draws. Hulk Hogan was a tremendous drawing card over the time span of many years, you're right, but some people also use this same argument for John Cena, which is absolutely ridiculous since this guy has brought more negative to wrestling than positive and the only reason he has been WWE's top draw for so long is because they refuse to push anyone else as their top guy. No quality there with him, just quantity. This is why tying drawing power into longevity is stupid and is a stupid excuse to discredit guys like Austin and Rock to make Cena look better than them, when Austin and Rock have made more impact, drew more money in their short amount of time and are way more important to the business than Cena has ever been in his 10+ years.

This whole rant was ridiculous, for several reasons. You hate Cena. I get it. But if you aren't willing to at least acknowledge the fact that Cena has been WWE's top drawing card for the last several years, and the positives that come with that, then you have no business talking about the man. The other reason why its ridiculous is that longevity can't be anything other than a reflection of a performers monetary value over time. What else would it measure, length of career? In that case I suppose you'll agree that Gypsy Joe was the greatest wrestler of all time, since he had like a 6 decade career. Austin and Rock both set records for drawing the most big gates in the time span of a single year, and that's an achievement that no one can dismiss or downplay, but neither were big drawing cards for more than a few years. They lacked longevity. That's fact.

 

[Wolf Pac]

This whole rant was ridiculous, for several reasons. You hate Cena. I get it. But if you aren't willing to at least acknowledge the fact that Cena has been WWE's top drawing card for the last several years, and the positives that come with that, then you have no business talking about the man. The other reason why its ridiculous is that longevity can't be anything other than a reflection of a performers monetary value over time. What else would it measure, length of career? In that case I suppose you'll agree that Gypsy Joe was the greatest wrestler of all time, since he had like a 6 decade career. Austin and Rock both set records for drawing the most big gates in the time span of a single year, and that's an achievement that no one can dismiss or downplay, but neither were big drawing cards for more than a few years. They lacked longevity. That's fact.

I already acknowledged that Cena has been WWE's top drawing card for the last several years but I also said that he's only been WWE's top draw for so long because they refuse to give the top spot to anybody else, which is fact. They could've put anybody else in Cena's position for the last 10 years and pushed and shoved them down our throats as much as they have done Cena and they still would've drawn his numbers. You act like WWE wouldn't have survived, bought the WWE Network etc. without Cena all these years, yes they would have. Cena as a top draw is a farce especially with all this longevity crap being added to it. And what positives have come with it, making top babyfaces hated, making wrestling uncool and giving it a bad rep? That's Cena's impact on the business. That's exactly and the only thing longevity is, length of career. It's got absolutely nothing to do with monetary values, that's just some dumb shit you have made up here. If you want to factor in drawing power, that's fine, but don't lump it in with longevity. Austin and Rock were bigger drawing cards than Cena's entire run in those singles years, which is far more impressive and makes longevity irrelevant when discussing drawing power. Cena has been there for 10 years, big whoop. No one cares. If The Rock were there for 10 more years, he would've been WWE's top draw instead and drew much more than Cena has. And no I wouldn't agree Gypsy Joe was the greatest wrestler of all time as longevity means nothing, it's all about the impact you make on the business whether you're there for a long time or a short time.

 

[Bernkastel]

I already acknowledged that Cena has been WWE's top drawing card for the last several years but I also said that he's only been WWE's top draw for so long because they refuse to give the top spot to anybody else, which is fact.

That's because no one else has proven themselves to be the ticket seller and merch mover that Cena has been so consistently over the last decade.

They could've put anybody else in Cena's position for the last 10 years and pushed and shoved them down our throats as much as they have done Cena and they still would've drawn his numbers.

That's 100% bullshit. Based on your logic I guess Mankind could have drawn the numbers Austin and Rock did since apparently WWE can force just anyone on the fan base.

You act like WWE wouldn't have survived, bought the WWE Network etc. without Cena all these years, yes they would have.

Maybe, but they wouldn't have done as good of business with anyone else as the face of the company other than Cena.

Cena as a top draw is a farce especially with all this longevity crap being added to it.

If you can accept longevity being tied to the drawing power of guys like Hogan and Flair, then you can accept it for Cena, because the same benefits they reaped being able to draw for so many years he does too.

And what positives have come with it, making top babyfaces hated, making wrestling uncool and giving it a bad rep? That's Cena's impact on the business.

Cena isn't the first babyface to receive a polarizing reaction or to be an unpopular choice in the eyes of fans. Ever heard of Dory Funk Jr and Bob Backlund? Like Cena they were also tremendous drawing cards over the course of many years despite being unfavorable choices. Fans can claim that they don't like Cena, but the numbers that reflect monetary value show something different.

That's exactly and the only thing longevity is, length of career

So you'd agree that Gypsy Joe is the greatest ever since he wrestled like 6 decades.

It's got absolutely nothing to do with monetary values, that's just some dumb shit you have made up here.

Yes it does. It's not my fault that you are too stupid to see the correlation. Pro wrestling is a business. Wrestlers exist to make money. Why would longevity measure anything but a wrestlers ability to draw or retain their marketability over a given amount of time?

You want to give Austin and Rock the most credit because they hold records for drawing the most big gates in a short amount of time [1 year,] but yet neither were able to sustain that level of popularity and appeal for a prolonged period of time. Like Hogan, Flair, Thesz, and Cena.

I'd gladly put the 2 years Austin was a dominant draw and the 1 that Rock was up against the last 8 that Cena has been. Or the 20 that Hogan, Flair, Andre, and Sammartino were consistently drawing sellouts.

If you want to factor in drawing power, that's fine, but don't lump it in with longevity.

Why, because it hurts your argument? Who cares.

Austin and Rock were bigger drawing cards than Cena's entire run in those singles years, which is far more impressive and makes longevity irrelevant when discussing drawing power.

No, they weren't.

Cena has been there for 10 years, big whoop. No one cares. If The Rock were there for 10 more years, he would've been WWE's top draw instead and drew much more than Cena has.

And in that time span he's headlined more PPV's than Rock and Austin combined, including 5 Wrestlemania's. You are a Cena hater. You refuse to acknowledge Cena's contributions and his drawing power, marketability, and sustained appeal of the last 8 years because it hurts your argument, and would force you to reconsider just how successful Austin and Rock truly were in the 1-2 years they were dominant draws.

Claiming that Austin or Rock drew more in 1 year than Cena did in 8 is not only monumentally stupid, but also impossible.

And no I wouldn't agree Gypsy Joe was the greatest wrestler of all time as longevity means nothing, it's all about the impact you make on the business whether you're there for a long time or a short time.

If longevity measured length of career that is, but it doesn't. As established. And Cena has brought in more money to the WWE in 8 years than Austin or Rock did in 1.

 

[relentless1]

This isn't really accurate. Cena was at best the third choice to be "the guy" of the modern era. Lesnar was gonna be that guy until he left, Orton was also being groomed for that spot as well as Batista, it was luck that saw Cena rise to that top spot nothing more. sure he had a connection with the fans but once that faded there wasnt anybody left to take the spot for him because WWE has been gun shy about 100% pushing anybody to that spot since. Don't believe me? ask Daniel Bryan or CM Punk... or Wade Barrett for that matter.

 

[Bernkastel]

This isn't really accurate. Cena was at best the third choice to be "the guy" of the modern era. Lesnar was gonna be that guy until he left, Orton was also being groomed for that spot as well as Batista, it was luck that saw Cena rise to that top spot nothing more. sure he had a connection with the fans but once that faded there wasnt anybody left to take the spot for him because WWE has been gun shy about 100% pushing anybody to that spot since. Don't believe me? ask Daniel Bryan or CM Punk... or Wade Barrett for that matter.

What? Even if the first part of your post was accurate, Cena kept the top spot because no one else proved themselves to be the type of moneymaker that he has been. When you talk about the total package, Cena has obviously been the most complete and best example of the current era.

 

[relentless1]

hows it inaccurate? Cena wasnt pegged to be the top guy ever, until he was.

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

HHH and The Rock are the two that really come to mind. WHile others like HBK and Angle may fit the description they don't necessarily have the "look". Of course Angle can get away with that because he is an olympic gold medalist but I'm trying to talk kayfabe here.

Looking at HBK and Angle they wouldn't look like "tough guys" so to me you can't give them credit for looks. They have everything else but that though of course. But The Rock and HHH are both about 6'3-6'4 and in their primes ripped to shreds so they had the look, and while neither were HBK or Angle in the ring they both were good enough to put on great matches and both had great mic skills and in The Rock's case his were second to none.

So to me those are really the two "total packages" that come to my mind.