WrestleMania XII: Yokozuna vs. Vader

[The Brain]

You probably know the opening match of WrestleMania XII was a six man tag match featuring Yokozuna, Jake Roberts, and Ahmed Johnson against Vader, Owen Hart, and The British Bulldog. What you may not remember is the original match was announced as Yokozuna vs. Vader one on one. I was looking forward to the one on one match and was disappointed when it was changed.

For three years Yokozuna was Jim Cornette’s number one guy in the WWF. In 1993/1994 Yoko enjoyed the longest heel WWF title reigns in 16 years while under the guidance of Cornette. At the beginning of 1996 Vader joined the WWF and took on Cornette as his manager. Vader and Yokozuna had a confrontation during the Royal Rumble match and it was obvious from the start that the two big men were not going to be able to coexist under Cornette. Cornette chose Vader and eventually Yokozuna left Camp Cornette and turned face. The one on one match was signed for mania and we were going to see the two most dominant big men of the 90s face off on the big stage.

Over the next few weeks Owen Hart and The British Bulldog would assist Vader in attacking Yokozuna. Ahmed Johnson and Jake Roberts would come to Yoko’s aid. The one on one match was changed to a six man tag. Why was this done? Did the booking team feel the six man was a more interesting angle because of Yoko’s past partnerships with Hart and Smith? Was this done just as a way to get Hart, Smith, Johnson, and Roberts on the mania card? Did the WWF feel that Yoko vs. Vader would not have been a good enough one on one match for mania given Yoko’s rapid weight gain?

Personally I would have preferred Yoko vs. Vader one on one. It seemed like a big match that was certainly worthy of mania. I felt the six man kind of watered down the feud. The six man would have been a great match for In Your House the following month but mania should have been one on one. I guess if the consequences to the singles match was leaving Owen and Davey off mania all together then I would be more accepting of the six man but if they could have been fit in elsewhere then the singles match would have been the way to go. Why do you think the match was changed and would you have preferred the singles match over the six man tag?

 

[Lord_Frish]

I think it boils down to WWF not having confidence in Yokozuna's ability to perform. I think he was over 600lbs at the time, and there are stories of people not wanting to work with him because of his weight affecting his ability to perform. I wouldn't be surprized if there were some kind of ultimatum in place for Yoko, "Lose this much weight by this time and you will go one on one with Vader." It didn't happen, we get the 6 man tag match instead. I think this is the most likely reason for the match change.

I would have preferred a singles match, but if Yokozuna would have struggled to perform then perhaps it was better that we got the 6 Man Tag match instead.

EDIT: Now that I think about it, I believe it was just a few weeks later that Vader "broke" Yokozuna's leg so Yoko could take some time off to lose weight. Which makes it more likely that it was due to a lack of confidence that they didn't put on a one on one match.

 

[justtxyank]

He didn't really take time off to lose weight. That's just a fan created reality.

He was barely gone after the leg break at all. Only a few weeks before he returned and wrestled Vader in May.

The weight loss ultimatum didn't come until later that year after the issue with NY.

To answer the thread, they should have done the one on one bout. Both of those big men knew how to work a big man match. They could have given a 7-10 minute big man spectacle that really put Vader over. Have the leg break segment happen at WM with the forklift and everything. Would have been a great way to generate major heat for Vader at the biggest stage and set him up for the summer feud with Michaels.

 

[enviousdominous]

Are we not aware of the fact that Vader and Yokozuna went one on one a couple months after that at IYH 8? Sure, IYH has as much prestige as an event in the pro-wrestling world as literally anything the Insane Clown Posse has ever produced. But still, the theme of this thread seems to be speculation as to what would have happened if these two had a one on one match at all. If the intention is to suggest that their encounter deserved to be at a Wrestlemania, I only agree because the drama of a good grudge match gets watered down when you make it a six-man tag.

Honestly, from what I remember, their one-on-one match ended up being fucking terrible. I realize that having that opinion today is moot in that it doesn't take into consideration that 90% of a pro-wrestling match is the hype surrounding it. The hype was worthy of mania, that I'll give you.

 

[Wolf Pac]

I always felt it was just a way to get Owen, Bulldog, Roberts & Johnson on the card but to also make time for the Ironman match. Personally I would've preferred if Yoko and Vader went one-on-one and Owen, Bulldog, Roberts & Johnson competed in different matches, but if they had added more matches on to Wrestlemania it probably would've meant short matches for them.

 

[donfryeismyhero]

Bulldog, Owen, Jake & Ahmed deserved to be on the card but considering the fact that the Iron Man match took up so much time on the card from the entrances, the over time & HBK's celebration afterwards, there was just not enough time on a 3 hour broadcast to have them otherwise so it made sense to add them to Yoko's & Vader's match & turn it into a 6-man tag. Also, 2 weeks later they ran the leg injury angle & they probably didn't want anything to overshadow that like HBK winning the big one since it was considered a very big deal to see the former champion in such a weakened condition. Yokozuna had never been hurt like that before & it really helped to get Vader over.

 

[thebarber]

Yokozuna had piled on the weight and was nowhere near the in ring performer of 1993-1995. This match was simply made a 6 man to protect Yoko and maintain the integrity of these guys in a Mania match. As also stated elsewhere, one match took up over a third of the time, so to get guys like Bulldog and Hart on the card, they needed to have a multi man match. Bret at the time would have made sure his brother and brother in law had matches on the card also. I have no problem this match being a 6 man tag.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Timing was the biggest factor, though Yoko's descent into blobdom was probably also a major factor.

In reality since WM8 you have always seen this, guys who should be on the card either shoehorned into a battle royale or dark match rather than the WM6/7 model of more but shorter matches (which was far better) that had a feud, even one that started 3 weeks before. The reason Bret, Shawn, Davey and their ilk could turn it on at Mania is cos they were on them all the time - even in a 30 second match like Harts v Bolsheviks at WM6. Even a short feud/beer break match at Mania was experience that moulded them into what they later became... modern guys and even most in the 90's didn't get that chance, and then Vince wonders why some guys don't catch fire at Mania... it's nigh on impossible when you have no feud, in a match thrown together cos you won a battle royale or on the pre-show.

In the case of Vader, you had a hot heel who had been given a poor opponent in reality, sure it looked good on paper but it was clear from the IYH match later that it wasn't a good fit.

But 12 was by far the worst booked Mania ever - not in terms of match quality (11, 9 and 13 all sucked worse in that respect or for matches that didn't spark as they should) but because 2 matches were booked to take nearly 60% of the show. Hart/Shawn was an hour and fifteen minutes all told and Goldust/Piper was 20 with all the car chase stuff, the fight and him being disrobed in the ring. So before you begin you are making an hour and a half Wrestlemania in reality... Warrior v Trips sure takes less than 5 mins but the rest of the card really did suffer because of the rushed nature of it.

Guys like Ahmed were being built to win the IC title just 2 months later so it wasn't possible to leave him off the card, Steve Austin was being considered for a major role helping Pillman win King Of The Ring (this was before his crash... if he was fit, he wins that tourney and feuds with Bret... not Steve) and needed the return of Jake Roberts to make that work...Davey Boy was being positioned to be Shawn's first title feud and Owen had been the most consistant Mania worker of the previous 3 years - so they HAD to get on the show.

What they should have done was tell Nash "Sorry mate, you're not on Wrestlemania, we need the time for the guys staying with us but thanks for playing"... sure you'd have lost a notch on the Streak, but that wasn't even a factor then and Taker could have worked with Bulldog, Owen or with someone else. They needed to not use the entire They Live fight scene (which is the longest in Hollywood history) as they did and have Goldust defend the title in a shorter match against Jake if needed.

But they chose 2 matches to be the bulk of the show and while one lived up to billing, the Goldust/Piper match didn't cut it...

Now as for Yoko and Vader they did the best they could, adding those extra guys into the mix certainly made up for Yoko's deterioration but it was criminal use of Vader, the guy who had just taken out Gorilla Monsoon... If I was booking that Mania it would have seen Vader beat Taker... Davey and Owen facing Jake and Ahmed and Yoko wouldn't have been there (or maybe he'd have gone over Nash in 3 minutes for shits and giggles..."Have fun storming the Nitro")

 

[donfryeismyhero]

Timing was the biggest factor, though Yoko's descent into blobdom was probably also a major factor.

In reality since WM8 you have always seen this, guys who should be on the card either shoehorned into a battle royale or dark match rather than the WM6/7 model of more but shorter matches (which was far better) that had a feud, even one that started 3 weeks before. The reason Bret, Shawn, Davey and their ilk could turn it on at Mania is cos they were on them all the time - even in a 30 second match like Harts v Bolsheviks at WM6. Even a short feud/beer break match at Mania was experience that moulded them into what they later became... modern guys and even most in the 90's didn't get that chance, and then Vince wonders why some guys don't catch fire at Mania... it's nigh on impossible when you have no feud, in a match thrown together cos you won a battle royale or on the pre-show.

In the case of Vader, you had a hot heel who had been given a poor opponent in reality, sure it looked good on paper but it was clear from the IYH match later that it wasn't a good fit.

But 12 was by far the worst booked Mania ever - not in terms of match quality (11, 9 and 13 all sucked worse in that respect or for matches that didn't spark as they should) but because 2 matches were booked to take nearly 60% of the show. Hart/Shawn was an hour and fifteen minutes all told and Goldust/Piper was 20 with all the car chase stuff, the fight and him being disrobed in the ring. So before you begin you are making an hour and a half Wrestlemania in reality... Warrior v Trips sure takes less than 5 mins but the rest of the card really did suffer because of the rushed nature of it.

Guys like Ahmed were being built to win the IC title just 2 months later so it wasn't possible to leave him off the card, Steve Austin was being considered for a major role helping Pillman win King Of The Ring (this was before his crash... if he was fit, he wins that tourney and feuds with Bret... not Steve) and needed the return of Jake Roberts to make that work...Davey Boy was being positioned to be Shawn's first title feud and Owen had been the most consistant Mania worker of the previous 3 years - so they HAD to get on the show.

What they should have done was tell Nash "Sorry mate, you're not on Wrestlemania, we need the time for the guys staying with us but thanks for playing"... sure you'd have lost a notch on the Streak, but that wasn't even a factor then and Taker could have worked with Bulldog, Owen or with someone else. They needed to not use the entire They Live fight scene (which is the longest in Hollywood history) as they did and have Goldust defend the title in a shorter match against Jake if needed.

But they chose 2 matches to be the bulk of the show and while one lived up to billing, the Goldust/Piper match didn't cut it...

Now as for Yoko and Vader they did the best they could, adding those extra guys into the mix certainly made up for Yoko's deterioration but it was criminal use of Vader, the guy who had just taken out Gorilla Monsoon... If I was booking that Mania it would have seen Vader beat Taker... Davey and Owen facing Jake and Ahmed and Yoko wouldn't have been there (or maybe he'd have gone over Nash in 3 minutes for shits and giggles..."Have fun storming the Nitro")

Totally disagree with you about needing to scrap Undertaker/Diesel. It was a match that had been built since late 95 early 96. Undertaker/Diesel was the co-main event, even if it didn't immediately follow Bret/HBK. It needed to happen. Plus, it made Undertaker look even better & stronger going over the former champion who had been champion for about a year. It was a pretty good match too. Up until that point, the only mania match that I'd say was better then Diesel/Taker was Takers match with Jake Roberts. The two of them busted their butts. Piper/Goldust was a last minute match with less then a months build to it. It was originally supposed to be a rematch between Goldust & Razor Ramon but Scott Hall got suspended in late February/early March because of substance abuse issues so they had to do a quick fix & went with Piper.

 

[The Eighties]

Yokozuna was to Bret what Vader was to Sting, on paper this was a Mania match-up although neither really suited being faces in my view.

I think the reason the match didn't happen is made clear by their match at the May IYH, Yoko had regressed so far it would have been crappy and a letdown, not the best way to display your new monster at his first WrestleMania.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

Totally disagree with you about needing to scrap Undertaker/Diesel. It was a match that had been built since late 95 early 96. Undertaker/Diesel was the co-main event, even if it didn't immediately follow Bret/HBK. It needed to happen. Plus, it made Undertaker look even better & stronger going over the former champion who had been champion for about a year. It was a pretty good match too. Up until that point, the only mania match that I'd say was better then Diesel/Taker was Takers match with Jake Roberts. The two of them busted their butts. Piper/Goldust was a last minute match with less then a months build to it. It was originally supposed to be a rematch between Goldust & Razor Ramon but Scott Hall got suspended in late February/early March because of substance abuse issues so they had to do a quick fix & went with Piper.

Maybe, but the reality was that Nash was surplus to that card... We could have seen the match on RAW or the prior IYH PPV rather than wasting that time on Mania and it was wasted in reality, as Taker got very little from it - he was still not in the title picture afterwards and it was simply Nash "doing the job on the way out".

With more thought and Nash not on that show, suddenly you can have Taker v Davey, Vader, Owen...any of those guys would have had a better match than Nash did and in Vader's case a credible opponent who could have gone over Taker with the other two's help. Remember the "streak" wasn't even a factor then, it was only Taker's 5th Mania appearance so it wouldn't have been a consideration. Vader beating Taker made sense, or even losing by DQ... Taker v Nash did nothing to stop the momentum of Nash in WCW or building Taker up.

As for Ramon, he'd handed his notice in at the Rumble or around that time so thats why he was off the show... if he'd gotten busted at the same time that would have been a pure coincidence - in Nash's case Vince was probably glad to see him go as he was a lot of coin for a "failed" champion, wheras Hall leaving (first I might add) would have simply pissed Vince off, especially after the Luger stuff.

 

[Loveless]

The 6-man match was simply the safer option. Some matches look better on paper than they would in reality and Vader Vs Yoko falls under that.
Given the shape Yoko was in, that match could have bombed, which not only damages Wrestlemania 12 (because it's the opener) but doesn't do Vader any favours either at a time when there are plans for him to get the title at Summerslam.
And of course it helps to get more people on the card and keep them happy, especially at a time when WCW was poaching anyone of value.

 

[donfryeismyhero]

Maybe, but the reality was that Nash was surplus to that card... We could have seen the match on RAW or the prior IYH PPV rather than wasting that time on Mania and it was wasted in reality, as Taker got very little from it - he was still not in the title picture afterwards and it was simply Nash "doing the job on the way out".

With more thought and Nash not on that show, suddenly you can have Taker v Davey, Vader, Owen...any of those guys would have had a better match than Nash did and in Vader's case a credible opponent who could have gone over Taker with the other two's help. Remember the "streak" wasn't even a factor then, it was only Taker's 5th Mania appearance so it wouldn't have been a consideration. Vader beating Taker made sense, or even losing by DQ... Taker v Nash did nothing to stop the momentum of Nash in WCW or building Taker up.

As for Ramon, he'd handed his notice in at the Rumble or around that time so thats why he was off the show... if he'd gotten busted at the same time that would have been a pure coincidence - in Nash's case Vince was probably glad to see him go as he was a lot of coin for a "failed" champion, wheras Hall leaving (first I might add) would have simply pissed Vince off, especially after the Luger stuff.

It would of been a waste of a good feud to end if it had ended on Raw. It was a big money match that did deserve to be on ppv. If you were a fan of WWE during that era, chances were that Diesel vs Undertaker was a dream match for you. It was for more most fans during that time. I understand what you're saying as far as utilizing talent that plan on staying with the company over guys that are leaving soon but the wheels were already in motion & the fans wanted this match at mania. It delivered imo, plus WWE did use footage of Undertaker beating Diesel in their hype videos during his feud with Mankind. If WWE had used either guy from Camp Cornette to wrestle Undertaker, there just wouldn't have been the kind of interest there that was there with him & Nash. The whole point of Vader being pitted up against Yoko was to build him up as a legit threat to the top tier in the company & not just be another fat guy "monster". It was way too soon for him to meet up with the Dead Man. As far as Ramon goes, it is true that he had given his notice earlier in the year but it was clear that WWE still wanted to go through with a rematch between the two at mania seeing as how they had Hall cut a promo on raw the night after IYH6 challenging Goldust, then proceeded to take part in the tag title tourney on Superstars with Savio as his tag partner up until his suspension. It worked out well for Stone Cold though as he ended up being Scott's replacement as Vega's tag partner & which would lead to the two of them wrestling at mania.

 

[HBsam31]

I am never fond of the six man tag at Mania, and I much rather would have seen Yoko and Vader one on one. I always thought that would have been the route they would have taken, but I agree with the posts that said Vince was probably concerned about Yoko in the ring by that time. He was way bigger than when he debuted, and I guess they figured he might not be able to go. I don't even remember much of the six man match, but a prime Yokozuna vs Vader would have been a match to see. TO bad it didn't work out that way.

 

[Matty~!]

Maybe, but the reality was that Nash was surplus to that card... We could have seen the match on RAW or the prior IYH PPV rather than wasting that time on Mania and it was wasted in reality, as Taker got very little from it - he was still not in the title picture afterwards and it was simply Nash "doing the job on the way out".

With more thought and Nash not on that show, suddenly you can have Taker v Davey, Vader, Owen...any of those guys would have had a better match than Nash did and in Vader's case a credible opponent who could have gone over Taker with the other two's help. Remember the "streak" wasn't even a factor then, it was only Taker's 5th Mania appearance so it wouldn't have been a consideration. Vader beating Taker made sense, or even losing by DQ... Taker v Nash did nothing to stop the momentum of Nash in WCW or building Taker up.

As for Ramon, he'd handed his notice in at the Rumble or around that time so thats why he was off the show... if he'd gotten busted at the same time that would have been a pure coincidence - in Nash's case Vince was probably glad to see him go as he was a lot of coin for a "failed" champion, wheras Hall leaving (first I might add) would have simply pissed Vince off, especially after the Luger stuff.

I'm pretty sure Hall didn't give notice until late feb 1996 and it was about 3 weeks before Wrestlemania that Nash gave notice. The idea of scrapping the second biggest match on the card was probably not an option, because of the time and effort they put into starting to Diesel in late 1995 and he was still working through dates in May.

As for the Yoko deal, it's been pretty well covered I think it's probably naive to think they didn't have concerns about his weight. However, I seem to remember that they weren't pro active about it, until they wanted to bring him back as a surprise at Survivor Series 96 and they couldn't get it past the New York commission.

 

[justtxyank]

Maybe, but the reality was that Nash was surplus to that card... We could have seen the match on RAW or the prior IYH PPV rather than wasting that time on Mania and it was wasted in reality, as Taker got very little from it - he was still not in the title picture afterwards and it was simply Nash "doing the job on the way out".

With more thought and Nash not on that show, suddenly you can have Taker v Davey, Vader, Owen...any of those guys would have had a better match than Nash did and in Vader's case a credible opponent who could have gone over Taker with the other two's help. Remember the "streak" wasn't even a factor then, it was only Taker's 5th Mania appearance so it wouldn't have been a consideration. Vader beating Taker made sense, or even losing by DQ... Taker v Nash did nothing to stop the momentum of Nash in WCW or building Taker up.

As for Ramon, he'd handed his notice in at the Rumble or around that time so thats why he was off the show... if he'd gotten busted at the same time that would have been a pure coincidence - in Nash's case Vince was probably glad to see him go as he was a lot of coin for a "failed" champion, wheras Hall leaving (first I might add) would have simply pissed Vince off, especially after the Luger stuff.

What a joke.

1) Vince loved Nash. When Nash returned to the E recently and everyone blamed HHH, Nash said on air it was Vince who brought him back. Vince told Nash in 96 that he would always have a job with him if he wanted it. There's this myth out there that Nash has never drawn money. It's simply not true. Nash was good for business, the problem he had as champion is that there wasn't much business out there and his opponents were hot garbage.

2) Nash was one of the WWF's biggest stars. He was hardly surplus to the Wrestlemania 12 card. Diesel vs Taker was a BIG matchup and was considered one of the biggest matches the WWF had to make.

3) Further discrediting the idea that it was surplus, the original plan was for Nash to BEAT The Undertaker at Wrestlemania 12 to go into the HBK feud white hot. When Nash and Vince couldn't work out a new deal (they tried, but Vince just couldn't get to the number Nash wanted) Nash took the loss. He was still used in the feud with HBK and gave HBK a great match. Also note that despite Vince knowing that Nash was on his way out he did not bury him, instead choosing to make him look strong in the feud with HBK.

4) Razor Ramon was susposed to rematch Goldust at Wrestlemania 12. He wasn't left off the card because he gave notice, he was left off the card because of a drug issue. Piper was brought in for the feud despite not originally wanting to be a wrestler anymore. Razor returned after his suspension and did the job on the way out.

I'm pretty sure Hall didn't give notice until late feb 1996 and it was about 3 weeks before Wrestlemania that Nash gave notice. The idea of scrapping the second biggest match on the card was probably not an option, because of the time and effort they put into starting to Diesel in late 1995 and he was still working through dates in May.

Seriously. The Diesel character had gone through a transformation at the end of 1995 and was finally cool again instead of the baby kisser Vince had made him during the title run. Diesel was a money draw and was suddenly mega over. Never let anyone tell you that Diesel was "surplus" or that Vince was happy to see him leave.

 

[Matty~!]

Yea sorry I did mean that due to the time and effort they had put into turning Diesel, it wasn't effective to just write him off TV with no reason. I really like the last few months of Diesel's initial WWF run. The match with Bret at Survivor Series, the mania match with Taker and Michaels at IYH 7 all good matches. IYH 7 probably being one of the best mathes of Nash's career.

I would have slight issue with Nash drew money especially while in WWF, for someone to draw money the point is they bring in more money than they are paid. With the exception of a two year stretch from 1996 - 1998 he didn't really draw anywhere else in his career.

 

[bioshock]

I would of rather seen something like Vader vs Ahmed Johnson at Wrestlemania 12, or even Bulldog & Owen against Yokozuna & Vader in a heels vs heels tag match. But neither of those happened, and due to how the Rumble played out they had Yokozuna vs Vader pretty much made up. The sad thing is, in the Rumble 96' match Yokozuna put up a pretty decent performance though he didn't move around the ring much, I still give him the credit for what he did given his size. Plus I think he and Vader helped a little in putting over HBK in that match, plus it was the building blocks to Summerslam 96 with HBK vs Vader.

If they had the one on one match at WM12 which I would of liked to seen too, I'm not really sure what the two guys could have done, its not like Vader was going to body slam or powerbomb him, I think it would of been too much like Lesnar vs Goldberg or Big Show in his WM21 Sumo Match like than anything else, I know I seen the match they had at IYH and I totally forget how it played out, but given its WM, I'm sure they would of done something more. But given Yokozunas weight i just don't think they had room to do anything.

Would of been nice to seen Yokozuna & Vader face off in 1993 though when Yokozuna could really get around the ring for a 500lber

 

[SilverBullet1929]

Yeah there's no way Yoko and Vader would have had much of a high quality match. And the length of the Iron Man Match meant the undercard had to be very short. So to improve the match and squeeze in Owen and the Bulldog, and to a lesser extent the fresh rookie Ahmed and the returning legend Jake, the 6 man was the best option. While it wasn't a show stealer either, I myself enjoyed the match for what it was and definitely preferred it over Vader and Yoko one on one.

Actually i remember really looking forward to Yoko winning and getting the 5minutes alone with Cornette and when that didn't happen I was furious! I remember thinking there was no way the heels would win because the stipulation only went towards the faces, like there was no stip in case the heels won, which to me as a 14 year old kid made me think that was dont because there was no way the faces would lose. And they did, damn you Jake Roberts!

Lol nonetheless, a decent but forgotten WrestleMania match. Thanks for reminding us of it!