Would the Radicalz have been better off staying in WCW?

[Reddannihilation]

Many people consider the day the Radicalz jumped from WCW to the WWF one of the most important factors that lead to the collapse of WCW. For those unaware, The Radicalz were Eddie Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Perry Saturn and Chris Benoit.

Despite being relatively small wrestlers each of these men were regarded as the best of the best when it came to in-ring ability. In early 2000 the 4 men simultaneously jumped from WCW to the WWF appearing in the audience at RAW and laying a picture perfect beat down on The New Age Outlaws.

seen here:
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However, after their debut the Radicalz weren't really as successful as they should've been. For a quick run down here' the title history of each individual member;

Perry Saturn:

WCW:
WCW World Tag Team Championship (2 times) &#8211; with Raven (1), Chris Benoit (1)
WCW World Television Championship (1 time)

WWF:
WWF European Championship (1 time)
WWF Hardcore Championship (2 times)

Dean Malenko:

WCW:
WCW Cruiserweight Championship (4 times)
WCW United States Heavyweight Championship (1 time)
WCW World Tag Team Championship (1 time) &#8211; with Chris Benoit

WWF:
WWF Light Heavyweight Championship (2 times)

Eddie Guerrero:

WCW:
WCW Cruiserweight Championship (2 times)
WCW United States Heavyweight Championship (1 time)

WWF/E:
WWE Championship (1 time)
WWE Tag Team Championship (4 times) &#8211; with Chavo Guerrero (2), Tajiri (1), and Rey Mysterio (1)
WWE United States Championship (1 time)
WWF European Championship (2 times)
WWF Intercontinental Championship (2 times)

Chris Benoit:

WCW:
WCW United States Heavyweight Championship (2 times)
WCW World Heavyweight Championship (1 time)[130]
WCW World Tag Team Championship (2 times)[131] &#8211; with Dean Malenko (1) and Perry Saturn (1)
WCW World Television Championship (3 times)

WWF/E:
World Heavyweight Championship (1 time)
WWE Tag Team Championship (1 time) &#8211; with Kurt Angle
WWE United States Championship (3 times)
WWF/E Intercontinental Championship (4 times)
WWF/E World Tag Team Championship (3 times)

Now of these 4 men, Guerrero and Benoit had the most success after jumping ship, comparatively Saturn and Malenko drew the short straws with both men only winning one major title (Malenko won the Light Heavyweight twice, the Hardcore title was a gimmick title and the 24 hour rule made it available to be won by anyone).

On top of this, Malenko and Saturn were given somewhat terrible gimmicks in comparison to their roles in WCW. Malenko who had previously been the man of 1,000 holds and a member of the 4 Horsemen instead ended up feuding with Lita and briefly Jacqueline and Ivory as well as briefly going by the name Double Ho Seven. Needless to say the once proud man noted for his icy demeanor and excellent technical skills was treated rather poorly in the WWF. Malenko would retire in 2001.

Similarly Perry Saturn got lumped with a pretty terrible gimmick in the form of Moppy. To put it simply the creative team decided it would be a good idea for Saturn to fall in love with a mop. Surprisingly the gimmick got over in a Goldust sort of way, such that people would cheer for him, but you'd never see him as a main event contender.

Now the argument for Saturn and Malenko is relatively easy to make as neither man tasted the success they had in WCW during their WWF tenure. Gurrero and Benoit on the otherhand made it to the top of the WWE, however, an important factor to consider is the time it took from their jump to their arrival in the WWE main event.

The highest level title Guerrero won in WCW was the US title, however his popularity was undeniable and although many (including Eddie himself) wanted him to be elevated to the main event it never happened. That being said Eddie's rise to the main even in the WWF/E took a lot longer than it should have. Too put it into perspective Guerrero won the WWE championship in 2004, 4 years after he crossed over to the WWF/E, he would have only one reign before his untimely death in 2005.

Similarly Benoit stayed in the WWE mid-card until 2004 winning his only world title at Wrestlemanina XX. In WCW he had won the WCW World title in what many believe was a last ditch resort to keep Benoit from leaving (whether that's true or not is up to you to decide). So looking at it that way Benoit broke into the WCW main event in 2000, left the next day and spent 4 years getting back to the belt, only to recieve it once before never winning again.

An important factor to consider is that the main reason for these men leaving WCW was due to their lack of being pushed and in 1999 who could blame them? Especially after Kevin Sullivan was promoted to head booker. However, an extra factor needs to be taken into consideration;

The New Blood was arguably one of the biggest failures in the history of wrestling. It was basically a last ditch effort to bump mid-carders to the main event. Unfortunately by this time all the good mid-carders had bailed. So part of my question lends itself to the New Blood, specifically with these 4 men, especially Benoit and Guerrero who were both incredibly popular could they have found success in WCW as leaders of the New Blood (I have no doubt the New Blood would've gotten over much more with those two going up against the veterans, instead of Billy Kidman).

So really this comes down to 3 questions;

1.) Should the Radicalz have stayed in WCW (If you only think some members should have, state which ones and why)?

2.) Would the failed New Blood faction have had a better chance of success with these guys as members?

3.) Would WCW have survived (or perhaps lasted longer) had these four stayed?

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

1.) Should the Radicalz have stayed in WCW (If you only think some members should have, state which ones and why)?
No...they moved because they wern't given their chances in WCW...these guys were pushed a lot in 2000....

2.) Would the failed New Blood faction have had a better chance of success with these guys as members?
I could see it...they were really good in-ring performers the lot of them...it could have been succesfull...but I don't think 4 guys can change the failure it had...

3.) Would WCW have survived (or perhaps lasted longer) had these four stayed?
No...these guys wern't part of the main event scene...apart from Benoit which was from late 99 to early 00 when they left...and that was around the time WCW did daft booking..and that was what killed WCW...

If the radicalz stayed in WCW then i'm sure I would have still seen them at InVasion...

 

[closet_fan]

i think Malenko and Saturn would have done more in WCW if they had stayed, but you can clearly see that Guerrero and Benoit got the most out of the jump. They were midcarders at best in WCW, but were elevated to main event status once in the E.

To be honest, I never knew what people saw in Saturn.

Malenko's character was boring, but he was one of the best in the ring. Watching him wrestle was awesome.

 

[Judah's Lion]

1.) Should the Radicalz have stayed in WCW (If you only think some members should have, state which ones and why)?
nope. they left for good reason. remember the mid-card faction in WCW called "Revolution"? it was Malenko, Benoit, Shane Douglas and somebody else that i can't remember right now. but it was semi-work/semi-legit faction as it was a bunch of mid-card guys that wanted to be pushed and were trying to fight their way to the top. it never happened and it was never gonna happen in WCW.

2.) Would the failed New Blood faction have had a better chance of success with these guys as members?
i wish that i could answer "yes" to this question. but realistically, probably not. during this time, Hogan and Nash and Flair and others were arguably past their prime and past their best days. still could put on good matches and work the mic and still had tons of natural charisma, but their best days were behind them. and yet, this may be the time of the biggest egos for these men and others. i feel that Hogan, Nash and Flair and others from the era and notoriety are taking better care to invest in the next generation of superstars. this was not that time and quite likely, all of these 4 men would have been buried in this angle by the "Millionaire's Club".

3.) Would WCW have survived (or perhaps lasted longer) had these four stayed?
again, nope. with bigger stars come bigger paychecks to write out. maybe more money coming in, but not guaranteed. but if Guerrero and Benoit were beating out Hogan, Nash and Flair in the main events, they'd be more valuable and therefore be worth more money, and therefore might have demanded more money. that is a more likely guarantee than more money for sure coming in. WCW was past the point of no return by this time. but, if these 4 guys and several others that were very well-deserving of such a push got that push a few years earlier, say 97-99, it might be a different story.

i'd also like to note a few things about the Radicalz in WWE:

for sure, Malenko and Saturn were buried. i'm not sure that i'll ever get why. i liked them both on the mic and in the ring.
Eddie and Benoit, though they didn't win the WHC for about 4 years, both guys were in the main events and wrestling for the title and in high-profile feuds from the beginning. both guys challenged Rock, Austin and Triple H. and both had some set-backs that weren't related to WWE creative writing or booking.
Benoit was injured for a year and Eddie was having some substance abuse problems and had to take some time off. so their title wins coming late isn't totally attributed to WWE taking its time with them. some of that time was just bad luck.

 

[wushady]

No I don't think they should have stayed. The main reasons they left was they weren't being used the way they felt they should have,and they were sick of the politics. WCW was in such bad shape it wouldn't of mattered who was there they would have went under regardless.

Saturn was pushed decently at first in WWF, but personal problems led to his own demise.

Malenko was near the end of his career his gimmick wasn't the best for sure, but he did a great job putting over the light heavyweights before moving to behind the scenes were he still is today as a agent/producer.

Guerrero started out in WWF getting injured in his first match. Then his drug habit stalled his career when he got fired in '01. Then after he got his life on track he returned in '03 had a few IC,US, and tag title reigns. Then finally winning the WWE title in '04.

Benoit was on the fast track to the main event in '01 then he injured his neck and was sidelined for a year.Many believe he was scheduled to get the push Jericho got when he won the undisputed championship. When he came back the WWE was a different place with many new stars. All the momentum he had was lost. He had some more IC,US, and tag title reigns as well. Then got one of the greatest pushes to the world title I have ever seen. I think he felt the wait was worth it.

If they would have stayed in WCW they would have all ended up in WWE when they bought WCW a year later. Chances are they would have been lost in the shuffle with all the talent coming in.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

1.) Should the Radicalz have stayed in WCW (If you only think some members should have, state which ones and why)?

Short answer No. First off Dean Malenko and Saturn weren't relevant in WCW at all over the last 2-3 years and Eddie and Chris' talents were wasted in WCW as they never really gave them a chance even though they more than earned it. If Saturn stayed in WCW he would have made it as far as he did in WWE, no more, Malenko still works for WWE so it was beneficial to him and Eddie and Chris never would have become world champions, or even relevant in the 2000's. Although Saturn jumping ships never did him any favors (didn't hurt him either) I would say they ALL made the right decision to come to WWE.


2.) Would the failed New Blood faction have had a better chance of success with these guys as members?

No even though they could have. No matter how good a superstar is they don't really matter unless the company they work for makes them relevant. All 4 guys weren't relevant going into the storyline (Benoit was only relevant because he was leaving, if that didn't happen he wouldn't have been) and WCW never did a good job of pushing wrestlers who were top workers (especially in the early 2000's). Even though all 4 guys were in the top 10 of workers in WCW, they were never guys who people thought could sell tickets, so they wouldn't have been a big deal in the storyline, hell ALOT of good wrestlers were overlooked during this time.

3.) Would WCW have survived (or perhaps lasted longer) had these four stayed?

Hell No. WCW was in the shitter before these 4 left. Like I said before, WCW never utilized the full potential of these guys therefore they wouldn't have mattered in keeping the business afloat. WCW lost something like 70 million in 2000, with the way these 4 were booked there is no way they would have helped in bringing in more revenue.

WCW never used these guys as well as they could have, all 4 of them saw brighter pastures in the WWE (except for maybe Saturn) and even though they could have helped WCW, they were never given the opportunity to when it mattered. After the cruiserweights fizzled out all 4 guys became curtain jerkers, even though 2 of them could have been main eventers, and the other 2 could have been in the upper mid-card. All in all they made all the right decisions and them staying in WCW wouldn't have helped matters for anyone, not them, not WCW, not ANYONE.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Well if Benoit would've stayed, he would've friggin' imploded because he HATED it there!
And seeing as he was the top man in Radicalz it would've been just mediocre if only 3 of them would've come.

So no I think it was better off they all came.
(sorry seems like a lazy post, but that's all I gotta say about it)

 

[CyDeez]

I just think they did the right thing and there is no reason to speculate scenarios about if they stayed in WCW...

WCW didn't appreciate them and I am glad they left... Had they stayed though, they wouldn't have attained world title status by any means... Benoit would have kept flirting with stardom but would have still suffered being held down by the over the hill guys... Guerrero wouldn't have EVER been WHC and Malenko and Saturn wouldn't have been as relevant in their careers without the "Radicalz" jump to WWF/E!

 

[RuKDaD]

As far as if they should have stayed in WCW....... No. They have the right to leave for bigger and better, the same way any of us would have if we were in there shoes.

But if they would have stayed in WCW it would have been cool to see Benoit as a contender right away (he did win the belt the night before he left) instead of having to wait again. Guerrero could have possibly been a contender immediately because of his great in ring work ability with Benoit. I don't think it would have turned out any different for Saturn or Malenko. Maybe they wouldn't have had to do such ridiculous (moppy and feuding with divas) things in WCW.

As far as the new blood angle and WCW, the angle would have 100% worked out better and lasted longer with using Benoit and Guerrero instead of people like Stasiak and Polumbo. I doubt it would have delayed the inevitable (WCW's sale) for too much more than a year or so longer.

In the end WCW executive's inability to control the talent and put out a good program is what killed them. Even if you eat healthy, in the end a pile of shit is still a pile of shit.

WCW SCREWED WCW

 

[LascoX]

I think the Radicals did the right thing jumping ship. At the time WCW was an ego driven clusterfuck heading for the cliff. Saturn might have done well to stay with WCW and lead the new blood but most likely he would have been buried by the booking committe. Malenko , did very well to jump ship , he might not have had a great push in the WWE but he still has a job with them! Eddie did very good in the WWE and became one of the most loved superstars in recent years and Chris did find somewhat what he was looking for. Had he not imploded Chris Benoit would have become one of the biggest stars today leading the lockerroom and pushing the new tallent to the max. The four of them might have helped the new blood angle but they could not have helped WCW stop before it went over the cliff.

 

[klunderbunker]

Not at all. Benoit wisely saw what the title was: a way of keeping him there. As long as Sullivan and Nash had the book there was no way these guys were ever going to get a serious push. Simply being world champion does not make you the top guy in the company. Benoit was never going to be the top star as long as Hogan and Nash and everyone else over 40 was there. It simply wasn't going to happen and these four were smart enough to realize it. They got out and were instantly better off. Two of them wound up winning the world title. Benoit's world title finally came to him because the champion was hurt and it was a last ditch effort to keep him there. In WWE it was because he was the top guy on Raw. Big difference and more proof that they did the right thing.

 

[Via Armbar]

If they would have been better off in WCW, wouldn't they have stayed? There was more than enough reasons for them all to leave. Like KB stated above, Benoit was given the title as a bribe to stay in the company. He knew how things worked and he understood that if he ever wanted to go any higher he would need to remove himself from his current place. The other three followed for the same reasons and were all close to Benoit. All three were given chances in the WWE that they would have never gotten in WCW. Even if say Guerrero won the WCW Championship, that doesn't mean he would be in the same position as Nash or Hogan or any of the top guys like them. They easily made the right decision to jump ship.

Had they stayed I can guarantee that Benoit wouldn't have kept the title for very long. I'm sure Saturn and Malenko would have been regulated to the midcard and nothing much would have come from any of their careers outside of the work they had already done. Probably no world titles, and countless terrible gimmick matches in which they were all above. It would have been a true shame. Even Saturn who didn't accomplish an incredible amount in the WWE still did more than he would have done in WCW. Malenko would have probably retired anyway. Guerrero was the exact type of wrestler that they had their hearts set on keeping down so it wouldn't have looked good for him. One could go on and on about coulda's and woulda's, but in the end there is no reason for me to believe that the right decision wasn't made.

 

[The Holy One]

No way would they have been better staying in WCW. Just b/c Chris Benoit won the WCW title wouldn't have mean he would have been the focal point for Nitro. His reign would have been a normal reign for WCW at the time, two weeks to a month. After that, he would have been put in the midcard to join Saturn. Milenko and Guerrero would have stayed as cruiserweights and probably the only time they would be seen as more than that would be if they had a chance at the t.v. title. It has been shown that both Benoit and Guerrero became world champs and both had a decent reign imo. Saturn and Milenko both were giving better opprotunities to shine in the WWE. This is something that would have never happened if they stayed though.

EDIT: I also believe that the New Blood angle would still have failed b/c the angle happened one year too late imo. If the angle would have happened a year earlier you still would have had talent such as Chris Jericho and Bret Hart to work with too.

 

[One to Remember]

theres no dispute. WCW still would had been sold to the lowest bidder by Time Warner, TNT would had still taken their slot back.

Malenko was screwed because he could only dominate in a bygone era. I think he was like Bob Backlund in alot of ways where as Benoit although the perennial athlete, was a tad less vanilla. Being a workaholic gave Benoit a cult following. Malenko would had survived better in the WWF c. 1978-84..

Guerrero made the right call because if he couldn't reach the top of the card as leader of the LWO he wasn't ever going to. The irony of the LWO storyline was the reality of it.

Saturn was the whipping boy in Raven's flock for awhile. Maybe if John Kronus was put on the payroll he could had been a dominant figure in the tag team division. The WWF likewise didn't let him try out tagging enough. Saturn continued to suffer as a victim of the status quo.

Benoit as World champion still would not be able to hold at bay the locker room bandits ruining the WCW product through their own misconduct. It does say alot that WCW FINALLY gave him the titl and shows he had some leverage but he couldn't save WCW because he couldn't shake WWE's botom line. A nice shimmer though he offered.

They all came off better jumping ship because they came in with such contempt and bitterness towards WCW. These were four WCW guys who used to be ECW guys.. That doesn't help in the WWF but since they would end up in WWE anyways as members of the Alliance. It was crucial that they came in just before that on their own terms to avoid the black balling ECW and WCW alumni usually fall prey to. They jumped ship right before it was almost too late.