Worst match of 2016 -> Shibata vs Ishii

[braveh]

What was that? They put the F in fake. That match was so stupid. Stupid looking head-butts! And then:

"I'll sit down on the mat and you can kick me in the back....then you sit down and I'll kick you in the ass!"


Over at Wrestling observer, Tom Lawler and Dave Meltzer ridiculed Kenny Omega for looking like he is NOT on steroids anymore.

 

[ヒュー　G.　レックション]

Ishii and Shibata's G1 Climax 2013 match is one of the greatest matches I have ever seen. It's only what 12 minutes? But in that time it captures utter brilliance from both of them. Add an amazing crowd, Ishii being white hot beating the face of the company two days prior, and overall company momentum at the time, it's virtually flawless.

Part of why it was so well received I think, is because it was a very unique presentation of the match, and also because expectations were not too high, I don't think anyone was expecting it to be so good.

Since then, we've had several of these kinds of "Ishii-style" matches since he seems to be the main guy involved in all of these. And they're good in their own way, but none since have ever captured or exceeded the greatness of that G1 match. This applies for their WK10 match. It was still good though. A little excessive but that's what Ishii, and the Never title, is now known for. Variety in styles across the card is what makes wrestling better.

"I'll sit down on the mat and you can kick me in the back....then you sit down and I'll kick you in the ass!"

This was a callback to their 2013 match. It's basically a show of force to prove that they are tougher than the other. The crowd eats it up and it's a fun spot showing a fucked up kind of "sportsmanship" in such an intense match.

 

[braveh]

Ok so let's say there's a backstory to the "kick me in the ass"-spot and also cultural differences....but still....head butts in wrestling look like shit. Always did, always will. And this match was all about head butts. That is what they built-up to. Do you agree?

 

[Papa Pillman]

Different strokes for different folks I guess. To me the match was nothing short of brilliant.

It's definitely not going to appeal to detractors of the strike and fighting spirit heavy version of Puro, as these two guys are the pinnacle of that in modern wrestling, but it no doubt told a well executed story.

Reading it called "fake" blows my mind. Understand that the story being told makes the match execution different. Ishii and Shibata are in a constant tug of war over being seen as the toughest and stiffest strong style wrestler in the world. At any point that they meet in the ring, even if its a random couple minutes in the middle of a multi-man tag, it becomes a game of one-upsmanship with both men determined to prove they are tougher than the other. Its like the Japanese version of "machismo"(call it "samurai spirit" or something else probably borderline-racist like that), and on a gigantic stage like a title match at Wrestle Kingdom that same familiar game just naturally gets turned up to ten. Which all explains the reasoning for the spot trading exchanges that you classified as adding to the match's "fakeness".

As for the head-butts, I thought most of them were well-timed and laid in pretty stiff, especially the last charging one to the chest that Ishii laid out Shibata with in the final minutes.

Considering the match tells a logical story(and does it excellently BTW), the overall stiffness of the contest seems to me to make it quite possibly the furthest thing from "fake" that you will ever see in pro wrestling.

 

[Shadowmancer]

It was seriously amazing. The best description is that it was a dick measuring contest. It was a 5* match for me. Its a different kind of selling than what you are used to in that it is delayed. The entire idea is that you are fighting through the pain, and with the sound of those connections you were feeling it more than seeing a Wrestler scream in agony. They are two of the toughest wrestlers in the world today and they want to prove it by holding the NEVER openweight title, which has turned into the division for beating the shit out of each other.

 

[braveh]

Different strokes for different folks I guess. To me the match was nothing short of brilliant.

It's definitely not going to appeal to detractors of the strike and fighting spirit heavy version of Puro, as these two guys are the pinnacle of that in modern wrestling, but it no doubt told a well executed story.

Reading it called "fake" blows my mind. Understand that the story being told makes the match execution different. Ishii and Shibata are in a constant tug of war over being seen as the toughest and stiffest strong style wrestler in the world. At any point that they meet in the ring, even if its a random couple minutes in the middle of a multi-man tag, it becomes a game of one-upsmanship with both men determined to prove they are tougher than the other. Its like the Japanese version of "machismo"(call it "samurai spirit" or something else probably borderline-racist like that), and on a gigantic stage like a title match at Wrestle Kingdom that same familiar game just naturally gets turned up to ten. Which all explains the reasoning for the spot trading exchanges that you classified as adding to the match's "fakeness".

As for the head-butts, I thought most of them were well-timed and laid in pretty stiff, especially the last charging one to the chest that Ishii laid out Shibata with in the final minutes.

Considering the match tells a logical story(and does it excellently BTW), the overall stiffness of the contest seems to me to make it quite possibly the furthest thing from "fake" that you will ever see in pro wrestling.

It was seriously amazing. The best description is that it was a dick measuring contest. It was a 5* match for me. Its a different kind of selling than what you are used to in that it is delayed. The entire idea is that you are fighting through the pain, and with the sound of those connections you were feeling it more than seeing a Wrestler scream in agony. They are two of the toughest wrestlers in the world today and they want to prove it by holding the NEVER openweight title, which has turned into the division for beating the shit out of each other.

I'm sorry but this is my honest opinion....it's two guys who try really hard to head-butt each other but they're too afraid to go all-in....that is what it looks like...it looks like every shitty Daniel Bryan-head butt I've ever seen.

And the sad part is....they're taking a lot of damage in the process! It's not funny. It's sad. It doesn't look good. It's not the main event...it's stupid.

 

[Papa Pillman]

It's not the main event...it's stupid.

What the fuck is even the point of this line?? How did they try to be the main event?

First off its a huge match being in the third to last spot on the biggest show of the year with a title on the line, yet they still didn't go over long, and didn't spam false-finishes. What is that criticism even trying to say??

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

You don't like Japanese strong style, don't watch it or get over it.

 

[braveh]

You don't like Japanese strong style, don't watch it or get over it.

What the fuck is even the point of this line?? How did they try to be the main event?

First off its a huge match being in the third to last spot on the biggest show of the year with a title on the line, yet they still didn't go over long, and didn't spam false-finishes. What is that criticism even trying to say??

Oh so you have a match with a stupid ass spot with two grown men kicking each other in the ass.........then they do fake looking head-butting...........how is that my fault? Why are you angry with me for pointing this out? It was is obvious...........










(and btw is Daniel Bryan retired for head-butting related issues? Did any of those lame head-butts look real?)


I watched the famous Kobashi - Akiyama - match back in 2011 and I never said a bad thing about a Nakamura-match. So how am I a "strong-style-hater"?

 

[Shadowmancer]

The thing is the head butts are more realistic than the ones that are traditionally in Wrestling.