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World Heavyweight Champion: Bobby Roode

Long-term? I agree. Short-term? I don't.

I think short-term it's helping to establish the 2012 product right now. Clear-cut lines are being drawn. People know who the heel's are and who the face's are, and for a company recovering from such a rocky 2011 calendar year, that's kind of important.

If they need to have a full world title run to establish who the faces and heels are, they're in more trouble than anyone is going to be able to get them out of.

Also based on that, how smart is it to push the two people who caused the biggest embarrassment last year (Hardy) and the person who won the biggest competition of the year (Roode)? Wouldn't they want to distance themselves from those two?

Roode would be a good champion if they used him right. Calling him Bobby isn't helping him either. Bobby is the name of one of the Brady Bunch, not a world champion. It isn't working for me for the most part, although I've seen worse.
 
I might buy Roode as this cheating to win at all costs if he had a manager. some who's been there and done similar things. Ric Flair could have been that. IMO Ric Flair would a great manager to Roode. Roode fits that role a lot better than AJ Styles did in the past. Roode can wear the suits with his hair slicked back looking stylin. plus to me Roode isn't "great" on the mic. Flair could do some of the talking.

right now Jeff Hardy is going through this story of rebuilding himself. I think this story only works good with Hardy eventually winning the title back. it didn't come in his first title shot at Genesis, but I'm betting it will happen.
 
That said, he has gotten better as time has gone on but he hasn't had one story yet that has made you care about him being a top heel. Perhaps a renewed feud with Storm but the time may have passed. Had it happened first and after Roode had time to digest the story, you might have had something.

See, that's where I don't think you're getting it.

Had Roode v. Storm happened right away it would have been rushed and ultimately would have been just another feud. Yes, the matches would have been excellent, and the personal nature of the program could have helped it stay interesting, but in the end it would have done nothing major for the company.

How can you say the time has passed for a Roode/Storm, feud?? What TNA did was realize that they had all the makings of a big money, big draw feud, but it was between two guys who had yet to be put in a position to be seen as main eventers by the general wrestling public, who still just saw them as two halves of a successful tag team. We crucify wrestling companies for rushing storylines in this monthly PPV/instant gratification-era, then when a company decides to buck that trend and build two guys up into a program so that they can get the most out of it, some want to criticize that too.

Roode has done a good job with AJ and Jeff, and they have done their jobs too, but ultimately those programs are meant to do the exact same thing that James's program with Kurt is meant to do- which is nothing except build each guy into position for their next major meaningful story-arch, which is obviously with each other.

Both men needed to be solidified as main event talent before they could work what may prove to be TNA's most important main event feud in the last three years or so. And, as such, they needed to be built into the characters that creative wanted them to assume in that encounter, which is obviously the old-school matchup of sly, do-what-it-takes, high-life heel versus the relatable, likeable, southern, bar-fighting babyface. Each is qualified to play his role well, and the feud has a high success likelihood IMO, but they had to seperate them and fully get them over in their persona's first.
 
I was really enjoying Roode's reign when I was watching Impact Wrestling via minute-long video packages each week. He came off as a coward in the video packages, sure. But he was a coward with a twist. Spitting in Dixie Carter's face, for example, was a fantastic move. It made him look fearless, cowardly and arrogant all at once - an interesting combination.

But when I finally sat through an episode the other day (firs time since Bound For Glory), I couldn't stand it. He was horrifically dull. I mean, we always knew that Roode was the weaker half of Beer Money when it came to personality, but he surpassed even my expectations. Not only was he bland as hell, Roode also came across as utterly incompetent on the mic - to the point of the entire opening promo being hard to watch.

Man, those editing guys can make anyone look good.
 
i must say Roode has been a great heel champion hes so entertaining and 1 of the many highlights of impact each week the only problem i have with him is ppv matches shouldnt end in screw job endings...once in awhile sure but not every time but then again thats management not roode i hope he keeps going down the same path and after dropping the title he stays a main eventer
 
See, that's where I don't think you're getting it.

Had Roode v. Storm happened right away it would have been rushed and ultimately would have been just another feud. Yes, the matches would have been excellent, and the personal nature of the program could have helped it stay interesting, but in the end it would have done nothing major for the company.

How can you say the time has passed for a Roode/Storm, feud?? What TNA did was realize that they had all the makings of a big money, big draw feud, but it was between two guys who had yet to be put in a position to be seen as main eventers by the general wrestling public, who still just saw them as two halves of a successful tag team. We crucify wrestling companies for rushing storylines in this monthly PPV/instant gratification-era, then when a company decides to buck that trend and build two guys up into a program so that they can get the most out of it, some want to criticize that too.

Roode has done a good job with AJ and Jeff, and they have done their jobs too, but ultimately those programs are meant to do the exact same thing that James's program with Kurt is meant to do- which is nothing except build each guy into position for their next major meaningful story-arch, which is obviously with each other.

Both men needed to be solidified as main event talent before they could work what may prove to be TNA's most important main event feud in the last three years or so. And, as such, they needed to be built into the characters that creative wanted them to assume in that encounter, which is obviously the old-school matchup of sly, do-what-it-takes, high-life heel versus the relatable, likeable, southern, bar-fighting babyface. Each is qualified to play his role well, and the feud has a high success likelihood IMO, but they had to seperate them and fully get them over in their persona's first.

I think you missed my point. Perhaps I didn't explain it right, so let me try again.

The number one thing I'm suggesting from the beginning is that the chain of events from BFG through Storm's "injury" was terrible in my opinion. First off, you built up Roode as this blue collar babyface who worked really hard to win a 3 month long tournament. He even went through his best friends to prove that he was ready to beat the guy who was considered the best in the game. All of that says to me that he needs to win at BFG to make the build mean something. If you do that, Roode is established as a great babyface that has dethroned the great Kurt Angle. Instead, Roode loses in a ridiculous finish. Now, I know some people have argued for this finish, but keep in mind that this is your biggest show of the year. You sold a decent amount of seats for it and hopefully some PPV buys because people ideally wanted to see this happen. So instead of rewarding those fans for paying to see this, you screw them and have Roode lose.

Now, if the "plan all along" (which it wasn't as you can see Angle's recent interview) was for Roode to be a heel, then why not have Storm win the BFG series and win the title at BFG to give the fans the moment. Everything makes a lot more sense that way. Instead, you get Storm winning your most prestigious title in 90 seconds off Angle and then Roode, who didn't take ANY shortcuts in the entire BFG series, cheat to win the title. Here's the problem.

You established the guy as blue collar, someone who works hard for everything he has. Without even teasing that he's frustrated with his friend winning the title, and without him failing even once to beat his friend, he cheats to win and then goes full blown heel and steps on him with the title in hand. That is simply not believable. What I meant by "doing it right away" was that you don't put it on the backburner and have Storm feud with someone else. Use more time to let the Storm win resonate and have Roode officially turn after a month or two. Letting it fester makes the turn actually mean something, whereas the way it played out now, it was very forced and meaningless.

The difference is that my way you'd have a guy whose motives you understand and who finally snapped on his best friend. Then you have a vicious feud, whether for the title or not, that should be compelling TV. Instead, you turned him way too soon and then had to take significant TV time simply trying to get people to buy that the guy you pushed for months as the babyface is actually not a nice guy. It's backwards and just doesn't work, especially when he's the champion and should be focused on feuds. Most of the focus has been on "Bobby is bad" so the feud with AJ meant nothing and the feud with Jeff Hardy means less. Had it been the other way, Bobby doesn't become champion until he's over as a heel as a result of months of frustration becoming a dastardly heel.

So for me, the main problem is that the storyline was rushed from the beginning and the way it played out made no sense. You could have had literally months of TV revolving around the Beer Money implosion but instead we've forgotten about it for months and we might go back to it. Most likely we will, but is the heat still there? They'll mention what happened months ago, but the moment is gone. Both guys have been busy with other people and haven't interacted. It won't be the same and no matter how hard they try and how they'll probably have a few good matches, the heat just won't be there the way it could have been.

I hope that makes a bit more sense. I see problems with this heel run and the predominant one is the way it began.

Also, just an aside, but heels champions get over better when the beat an unbeatable babyface that the fans like. Thus, TNA needs to get over this fear of babyface champions. Had Storm gotten at least a month or two run before Roode screwed him (either to win himself or to help someone else win), that alone would have helped the turn to mean more.

There are a lot of factors at play here but the bottom line is that Roode's run is marred by hot-shot booking and I'm not sure that it will recover. All I can suggest is that TNA let things develop in the future rather than rush through ideas. Emotion hits home more than shock value.
 
I find Robert Roode to be refreshing. He's just a basic main heel. Most of the time you have a guy who's got a major stable backing him (Angle, Jarrett, Hardy, Christian) especially in TNA. This time things are as simplistic as they can get with a simple jerk on top.

I don't really care how he's managed to keep the title up to this point because up until this point I was used to seeing all sorts of shenanigans by a bunch of people at once happen for a heel to keep the title. Now it's just simple details with Roode like AJ and Storm being hurt and getting himself DQ'ed against Hardy.

I also like the simplicity of it. Strangely while his heel methods are simple and non-complicated, in a way they become more epic, if that make any sense. I don't know if it's because if we pull back during the Attitude Era where finishes seemed so overbooked with many things happening and wrestling had gone all the way to what it could possibly go but pulling everything back and doing this, it's like it's as shocking because it's so simple. It's like someone winning matchs by doing a suplex even though in this generation suplexes are merely transitional moves. And since cheating is really at the core of what being a heel is all about, Roode getting away with stuff by doing stuff we've already seen heels do gazillion times over, bring it back at the essence of what a heel is and makes him an iconic heel in some way.

Not only that but because Roode doesn't have official lackeys, doesn't have the owner in his pocket, doesn't have anything to his advantage, it's actually become fun and intriguing to watch his matchs and wonder how he is gonna get away with winning this time. (the only thing I would do is at least giving him a few clean wins)

Hell even Roode's reason for becoming heel and winning the belt this way when he faced Storm was incredibly uncomplicated. Because of Greed. It wasn't something with a super uber-duper plan like THEY and Immortal did. He basically changed his leaf in the course of one match. Hell possibly just at the end of the match. He saw an opportunity, he took it. His desire to be champ and get that belt was so great that he did something evil for it. But that's what makes it good. It's at the core of what is a heel, the ultimate cheater. Also because it was simple, true and honest. Storm was just in the way. Even when he say that his family should get over it, he's not totally wrong. His view is that he did nothing wrong to THEM, they should support him now that he has become champ. Bad guys in real life don't see themselves as evil, they always have an excuse. And the fact that he turned in the middle of a match, that it wasn't planned before hand, made that match even more special. It was all about winning that one match. And from now on Roode's matchs will always come off as special because of it.
 
I think the reason we've not seen much talk about Bobby Roode on here is because he doesn't do anything to get people talking. He's easily the most boring World Champion I've seen in TNA (and I saw a bit of Samoa Joe with the belt). I think there's potential in the character but Roode just isn't really putting much into it IMO. He basically just cuts the same promo every week and it doesn't look as though he's bringing anything new/different to the table. I can't really put my finger on what it is, but there's zero interest or excitement when it comes to Bobby Roode for me. I don't really see him being able to evolve his character and become a staple in the main event. As soon as James Storm rightfully takes the World Title back, I see Roode slipping back down into the mid card or forming another tag team.
 
I think the reason we've not seen much talk about Bobby Roode on here is because he doesn't do anything to get people talking. He's easily the most boring World Champion I've seen in TNA (and I saw a bit of Samoa Joe with the belt). I think there's potential in the character but Roode just isn't really putting much into it IMO. He basically just cuts the same promo every week and it doesn't look as though he's bringing anything new/different to the table. I can't really put my finger on what it is, but there's zero interest or excitement when it comes to Bobby Roode for me. I don't really see him being able to evolve his character and become a staple in the main event. As soon as James Storm rightfully takes the World Title back, I see Roode slipping back down into the mid card or forming another tag team.

Hulk Hogan has done the same boring promo for 30 years only he did it louder, he seems to have done well with it. Bobby Roode is just what he is, a darn good in ring worker, an Ole Anderson type strait shooter on the Mic, and a guy who can make the baby face look good in the ring. He isn't flashy, something I think Ric Flair or a manager of that type could really help with, but right now he is on his own and that is something that we need to live with.
 
My problem with Roode's reign is it comes off as not "who can possibly stop him" but "when will someone stop him". It's like he's the weakest of the main event guys. He had to cheat against Storm, he lost to Angle, He won the BFG Series over Gunner who is pretty firmly in the midcard, he lost to Hardy, beat an injured AJ, drew with AJ, then drew with him AGAIN before beating him in overtime. In other words, his two wins as champion have come against an injured opponent and against the same injured opponent again in overtime. Roode looks like he can barely beat anyone and that as soon as someone competent and healthy faces him, they'll win. That's not a good way to present your champion, at least not all the time.

I know what you are saying KB, but you could say that about most heel champions. For example JBL's title reign consisted of a reply of the texas bull match with Eddie, assistance from Angle to beat Eddie in the steel cage match, defeating the Taker by disqualification, help from Heindenreich in the last ride match with Taker at No Mercy, defeating Booker T after hitting him with the title belt, then with some more help from Heindenreich at Armageddon and then got lucky when Big Show choked slam him at No Way Out through the ring. His title reign went for 9 months and it was definately refreshing and I thought it was pretty good because he was doing his job to get everyone to hate him.

Same can be said for HHH and Edge during some of there title reigns, and those guys are some of the greatest wrestlers and heels of all time. I think Bobby Roode is doing his job as a heel and as champion. I wouldn't mind him holding the title a bit longer and keep going with his "flukey" wins because it makes sense for the angle he is trying to do.
 
I know what you are saying KB, but you could say that about most heel champions. For example JBL's title reign consisted of a reply of the texas bull match with Eddie, assistance from Angle to beat Eddie in the steel cage match, defeating the Taker by disqualification, help from Heindenreich in the last ride match with Taker at No Mercy, defeating Booker T after hitting him with the title belt, then with some more help from Heindenreich at Armageddon and then got lucky when Big Show choked slam him at No Way Out through the ring. His title reign went for 9 months and it was definately refreshing and I thought it was pretty good because he was doing his job to get everyone to hate him.

Same can be said for HHH and Edge during some of there title reigns, and those guys are some of the greatest wrestlers and heels of all time. I think Bobby Roode is doing his job as a heel and as champion. I wouldn't mind him holding the title a bit longer and keep going with his "flukey" wins because it makes sense for the angle he is trying to do.

Yep, and I found JBL to be a very boring champion. Edge's title reigns were fairly dull too, but at least he won some matches. There's nothing wrong with cheating to win a match, but Roode rarely even wins them. Heels are supposed to win via cheating, but there's a big difference between winning all the time via cheating and losing all the time.
 
The gimmick that Bobby Roode is protraying right now is not a "cocky" heel like for example Mr. Anderson was when he was in WWE when he started. He cheats to win and why? Because the World Championship matters more to him than anything else.

You may say that a lot of World Champions say that, well they might do, but they don't act like it. One of the few World Champions I can remember acting like it was Ric Flair, but Flair wanted the championships because of the fame that came with it and the money, because for Flair it was all about the limousines, and everything that being World Champion could give him.

So I started thinking and I remembered another guy, that I already made a thread about comparing him with Robert Roode, and that guy is Triple H. Back in 2002 and 2003, when he formed Evolution, Triple H was surely the top heel in the industry, he was not liked by many of the IWC, including being called the most overrated wrestler in the world from 2002 to 2004. I didn't agree with it, but that's not the point of this thread.

Surely, Triple H had evolution but even if he didn't have them, he would still be the same guy, just look at the promos he did back in those years and you will see the similarities between Roode and Triple H, there is a quote from Hunter in 2003 about him losing the title to Shawn Michaels the year before: "I almost lost my career and I lost the most important thing in the world to me: My World Title."

Without any doubt I say that Robert Roode character/gimmick is very similar to Triple H's back then. I'm not saying they copied it because Triple H's gimmick surely wasn't the first one that only seemed to cared about retaining the title no matter what.

So what are your toughts? I'm refering to the gimmick from Triple H for those years (since the formation of Evolution until the end of it), do you think that Triple H's caracther is indeed very similar to what Robert Roode is portraying right now? This is not about anything else or any other comparisons between these two, it's only about the gimmick itself.
 
I agree with you. I think Roode is a mixture of Trip back in 99-00 and of 02-03 with Evolution. His attitude is definitely that of Trip in regards to the championship, but he needs that extra push from a top contender (Storm) to make him a better champ. Roode's character is walking the line of fighting authority at the same time being GQ.
 
I dont think you can compare Roode to Trips because of the guys Trips had to mold him into that guy, Nash,, Shawn, Flair, Taker, Hogan, Rock, Austin. Compair that to Roode who has Styles, Storm, Angle, Flair, Sting, Jarrett, and Biscoff (Exclude Hogan because he is on record as not being the biggest fan of Roode). I mean other than Flair, Angle, and Sting I say the edge is with Trips.

Roode traveled with Flair for about 6 months and he said it was the greatest learning experience of his career, he doesnt have the experience being on top nor being associated closely with many legends in his younger days like Trips did. Roode has some of the characteristics but he isn't as ruthless. I say wait and see, check back in six months on the Roode/Trips comparisons.
 
I haven't watched Impact in ages, I guess its good that someone different has the belt other then the usual guys but it could have been anyone besides Roode, never been a fan of him but I'd rather him then to sit through another Sting reign.
 

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