Will the roles of the babyfaces and heels ever be reversed?

[Rusty]

I've been thinking about this topic for weeks now. Now, I am well aware the Internet Wrestling Community only takes up about 5 to 10% of total wrestling fans. And to an extent, I do believe they are part of the problem with wrestling today. But that's not what this thread is about. For a few years now, there has been a change in wrestling. Since the Attitude Era I believe, in some instances babyfaces have been booed, more so than the heels. And the heels have been cheered over the faces. It doesn't happen every match, but it happens much more often than ever before.

You look at wrestling from the 80's. I wasn't even alive back then, but I know for a fact that guys like Hulk Hogan were cheered every single night without fail. Their role was to be cheered, for the fans admired them as they were the "hero" whose role was to fight against the "villian". It's wrestling 101. Today for example, babyfaces like Batista, John Cena, Shawn Michaels, Jeff Hardy and Rey Mysterio are the "good" guys in wrestling. They are the guys the fans are meant to admire, to look up to, and to cheer for. 20 years ago, nobody cheered for the heels at all. But things have changed.

Edge, Randy Orton and Chris Jericho have all been cheered as heels. The IWC in particular loves these 3 superstars, and they cheer for them. One could say they are showing support for their favourite wrestler and they have a right to cheer for whoever they want to, but the fact is, you aren't supposed to cheer for them. Slyfox's recent comments in a particular wrestling thread mentioned something along the lines of "if the heels who take out families, injure superstars, have live sex celebrations, continiously diss the crowd and are just assholes in general are CHEERED for, then what does that say about our society". I know he didn't say exactly those words, but it was something similar to that.

He's right. But things have changed. Society has changed, so therefore wrestling has changed. Everytime I hear the fans boo Cena, cheer Edge, cheer Orton, boo Triple H, cheer Chris Jericho and boo CM Punk, it annoys me. Because by going against what they want the fans to do, not only does it shit the wrestlers off as they aren't playing their role good enough, but it ruins the entire experience for the fans that actually do the right thing and cheer and boo for the people who are meant to be cheered and booed. When Randy Orton won the WWE Championship at Backlash a few weeks ago, people cheered for him and they booed Triple H. The guy who punted Vince in the head, punted Shane, attacked Triple H's wife, brutalized Triple H himself and tore the entire McMahon family apart, was cheered for.

What more can the guy possibly do to get booed? Which leads me to this: Will the babyfaces be the guys who are arrogant assholes and who are seen as the more "entertaining" superstars such as Edge, Jericho and Orton. And will the heels be the "boring" superstars who have morals and who always obide by the rules? I'm not saying it should happen right now, because it shouldn't. But let's face it folks, the internet is growing on a daily basis. Eventually the IWC is going to make up close to 20% percent of wrestling fans, and the number will continue to grow. Eventually, more and more people are going to boo the faces and cheer the heels because it's the "in" thing to do. And unfortunately, that's how our society works.

I know it sounds stupid as it completely goes against traditional professional wrestling. But I think it's a possibility. A guy like Stone Cold was cheered, and he was a guy who took no shit whatsoever and continously drank beer. He isn't what I'd call a role model figure, but it worked. And ratings were at the highest ever during the Attitude Era. A guy like John Cena draws hugely, but he gets booed. He gets booed by being a guy who never backs down and never quits. He gets booed because he has morals and he respects others. He goes booed because the fans think he's not "cool".

With times changing, society becoming more rebelious and more destructive than ever, I think eventually wrestling will completely change. Do you think in the future, babyfaces are going to be the guys who hide from fights, diss others and attack superstars for no good reason? Do you think the heels are going to be the boring superstars who play by the rules and don't do anything fun? Please discuss your thoughts in detail.

 

[The Todd]

As usual Rusty posts absolute gold. This thread should run and run.

The fans booing the faces isn't the worst thing in the world, it shows they are into the character and do actually care about them. If you were bored of them, you wouldn't make a noise. I have heard an interview with John Cena where he says he doesn't mind the boos at all. He said as long as there is noise when he comes out he is doing his job.

Personally, I think booing the face is pathetic. If I went to a live show and Batista came out, I wouldn't boo, I would sit in my seat making no noise. That is how you make your protest against a face not doing their job. It would take the enitre arena booing a face every night to turn a character. These 10% booing won't make a difference.

As for the heels, I have heard an interview with Randy Orton where he says hearing cheers is the worst thing for him as it tells him he isn't doing a job. To try and combat it he said he had to drop his familiar pose on the ropes, as people copied him and cheered it. He also said he loves hearing "boring" chants. He said his aim was to make the crowd be bored when he is on top, then they will cheer the face more when they make their fightback. It shows you the length these superstars are having to go to to get people to boo them.

WHat the fans don't seem to realise is if they cheer them yoo much, and they got turned face, the characters would change and they wouldn't like them anymore.

Now to answer if I think roles of faces and heels will change, it is very possible. In the attitude era your top babyface was a beer drinking, rebelling, swearing wrestler. One of your most hated heels was an olympic champion, who had his three I's (intensity, integrity and intelligence) who drank milk. This was not a great role model but it wasn't aimed at a PG audience.

To change the roles, the PG rating would have to go which could well happen at some point, but maybe not for a decade or so yet. If that happens then there will likely be a change in the roles of faces and heels.

It depends on whether the kids carry on watching wrestling or if they grow out of it. If they carry on, the audience will grow up hating the heels like Edge and Orton, and maybe the "smarky" crowds will disappear. If the younger audience grow out of it and the "smarky" audiences carry on going, there will have to be a change.

 

[Fratelli]

good thread!! i was screaming out for someone to say that the way you just did rusty, well done

i think that the 'cool' fans, as they are now known as, need to really think for a second and think, "are we real wrestling fans"?

you wouldnt go to a movie and cheer for the bad guy, just coz hes a better actor.

cena isnt the worst wrestler in the history of the world. hes not even the worst wwe champion. to be honest hes not even that bad, not really great but hes quite good. and yes being quite good shouldnt cut it as the main guy in the wwe, but he has the charisma, mic skills, he sells so much merchandise it would be stupid for him to be in the low or mid card. he needs to be at the top for people to keep buying his stuff, and keep the intrest up.

i think the wwe dont know what to do anymore. they sell so much cm punk merch that anyone would think that hes popular, so they give the fans what they think they want and cm punk gets boo'ed. WHY BOO CM PUNK???!!! hes only doing what vince and co tell him. hes a solid wrestler and anyone who says hes a shit wrestler has never watched a single cm punk match and has decided to join the fad and be 'cool'.

WHY CHEER ORTON???!!! the iwc love mvp and with christian he was their pick to win MITB. but mvp has started a mini feud with orton now. by cheering orton they are just being totally hypocritical.

heres the scenario: orton vs punk -
fan " oh hey here comes punk, i hate him, lets boo him, BOOOO!!!! go orton!!!!"

mvp makes the save during an after match beat down on punk who just lost.

fan "Yeahhhh!!! go orton he just beat punk yeah!!"

Mvp rushes to the ring.

fan," Go MVP Kick his ass!!!! yeah i love mvp hes so great! take that orton you piece of shit!!"

thats basically what would happen in that scenario.

to answer the question. no, i just hope not

the roles wont be changed the wwe doesnt like to give into the fans. its too easy and predictable.

what would be the point in watching a show when you couldnt tell who was the bad guy because the audience cheered for the guy who was doing the wrong thing. whilst the good guy was getting booed for doing the right thing.

im not saying faces should be all goodie too shoes all the time but the cool fans really dont know what they want. the cheer orton and jericho and edge. but boo william regal, umaga and jack swagger. im not saying the last 3 are as good as orton/y2j/edge but they can certanly hang with them. and basically do the same antics as the 'cool' heels.

wwe fans will never know what they want because there will always be people in the IWC telling them what they want. and the fans take their advice because those who bash cena with their 3,000 posts and 2000 green rep are all knowing and wise...................oh and 'cool'

 

[RVDgurl]

First of all, Rusty, this is a great topic and your post was fantastic. I have to say that wrestling has changed tremendously. I was alive for the 1980's, so I've seen first hand the changes that have occured in regard to the roles of heels and faces.

I started watching wrestling in 1984 and at that time, you cheered faces and booed heels. No question about it, that was just the way it was. I remember Brutus Beefacke being my first "favorite" wrestler. At the time he was a heel so I never cheered him because I wasn't supposed to.

Over the past 15 years, things have really evolved. 1994 was the start of kayfabe being broken, which is what I believe started the confusion between roles. As wrestling became more "real", fans became more open about who they liked and they were vocal, even if that meant cheering their favorite heel. Heel factions like DX and the NWO were popular in mainstream culture, not just the world of wrestling. They were "cool" guys that people could related to. Who doesn't want to cheer that?

Wrestling will never again be about "good guys" vs. "bad guys". It just doesn't make sense anymore. Fans identify with a wrestler and will cheer for them regardless of how their booked.