Why is it that the Tombstone is rarely kicked out of?

[matty256]

I've realized that I can only think about three superstars who have kicked out of the Tombstone. Kane at Wrestlemania 14, Edge at Wrestlemania 24, and Shawn Micheals at Wrestlemania 25 (let me know if theirs more that have please) why is that? Triple H's Pedigree, John Cena's Attitude Adjustment or Micheals' Superkick are sometimes kicked out of, but usually when we see Taker deliver the Tombstone that means the match is over. Imo The Pedigree or Sweet Chin Music look like they are def more painful. When he's delevering the Tombstone the oppenet's head doesnt even hit the mat. I'm not trying to bash Taker or anything but I just don't see how a move that looks unreal and painless ends match after match never being kicked out of.

Thoughts?

 

[The Mizard of Oz]

The Pedigree and SCM look more painful? Are you kidding me? I'd rather be driven face-first into the ground or be kicked in the face than have my skull driven into the ground at full throttle from seven feet in the air.

The tombstone piledriver could legitimately kill someone if executed for real. No one is dying from a Pedigree or Sweet Chin Music.

 

[Spunky]

I'd rather take a face first 3 foot drop, Or a kick to the head. Rather than being dropped on the top on my head, Seriously try and spike yourself like The Undertaker spikes most opponents. You will know why when your in the hospital, Having your neck fused back together.

 

[matty256]

Please one of you give me a link to a youtube video showing me a tombstone delivered by The Undertaker in which someones actually landed on their head

 

[Spunky]

[youtube]DxD37Ao6Qyo[/youtube]

That's the best I can find on a 5 minute search. Do you mean it would be worst to take the tombstone kayfabe? Or take it real?

Kayfabe, Your dropped on your head, And it knocks you out, And makes your body numb.

Real, Yes The Undertaker protects everyone he hits the move on, But things are a damn sight worst if hit in real life, Broken neck is the first thought, Concussion next, Among other things.

 

[Captain Bean]

the tombstone would be soo much more devastating. the wrestlers heads dont hit the matt cos if they do it would break their neck and paralyse or kill them. if done legit, it could quite potentially kill someone. the pedigree and SWC do look pretty devastating, but would never kill you.

i also think batista kicked out of a tombstone in his HIAC with taker at SS07......then taker hit him with one on the steel steps, only for edge to interfere....correct me if imn wrong?

 

[Paradox100]

Yea man, The tombstone piledriver, could KILL YOU. The pedigree, i jump up, and i fall on my face. probably makes my nose hurt a bit. Sweet Chin Music, hurts your jaw pretty bad. The tombstone has you fall head first. If done for real, you can easily snap your neck. If your lucky, concussion.

Now, I know that wrestler's in the 90's used to use the tombstone as a regular move. But they just quickly did it, and didn't put much force behind it. Ok, let's take away all the power behind wrestling moves. Finishing moves, are just that. To finish a match. Got it?

 

[Hulkster84]

Hulk Hogan kicked out of the Tombstone at Survivor Series in 1991!

The Ultimate Warrior also kicked out of the Tombstone in his match at Rampage 91 on video cassette against the Undertaker.

Batista also kicked out of the Tombstone at Survivor Series 2007.

Then there are Shawn Michaels, Edge and Kane that have already been listed. That's a total of 6 people in the almost 19 year career of the Undertaker character.

I think it is so rarely kicked out of because the Undertaker is the only real animated 'character' left in WWE. Because of his dark side death persona, if wrestlers kicked out of the tombstone regularly, it would significantly effect the whole 'hes not human' concept of the Undertakers character. His character would be considered more 'human'. By rarely having wrestlers kick out of his finisher, it makes the Undertaker look more invincible, which is what his character is all about, invincibility!

 

[Y 2 Jake]

Because it's a finishing move. That would be my first guess. My second guess would be that it means more when somebody actualy does kick out of it.

 

[TheOneBigWill]

Mainly because the Undertaker isn't one to screw with on trying to up-stage him by making his Finishing move look like it isn't effective, maybe? People used to kick out of the Last Ride all the time. So much so, that it made the Tombstone that much more deadly, because Taker had moved on to trying to change things up.. and failed.

When you look at the current list of finishing moves, I doubt you'd find one that delivers half the impact of a Tombstone.

Pedigree: If Triple H delivered it the way he used to, without releasing the arms until the guy's head had rammed into the mat - I might think this move was still half as effective. But in today's match, he barely even holds the arms as he's jumping up, let alone holding them as he's going down. The entire reason the Pedigree was worth half a shit is because your head is unprotected, and you can't bring your arms together to brace the impact.

Go To Sleep: Sure, when it connects its deadly. It can break stuff. (Just ask Snitsky) But the odds of Punk connecting dead-on are about 1 in every 5 matches. Especially against different sized opponents. Typically, he randomly hits anything from the head to the upper chest. And almost all the time, you see opponents getting their arms up to brace the impact.

Sweet Chin Music: Similar to Punk's GTS, H.B.K connects directly on the face 1 in every 5 matches it seems anymore. Other times, he barely touches the face, or niks it. Half the time, I've even seem him connect with the chest, too. Its not nearly the same type of "holy crap" impact as it used to be.

Tombstone: So, in the end, you question why no one kicks out of the Tombstone? Or rather why its a move so few have kicked out of? Simple, really.. because its a move that doesn't have a flaw to it. Taker hits 100% of this move, everytime he lands it, because he's dropping you directly ON your head, jamming your entire body upward in an impactful motion.

If you've kicked out of this move, be very thankful for two reasons. First, because you've accomplished what so few have done. Second, because you still have mobility of your body parts.

 

[Loveless]

This is going way back but I've actually been on the wrong end of a tombstone, before I even knew what it was. I wasn't protected, my head did hit the ground hard and vertically and I'll tell you right now, I'd rather be kicked in the face any day. I did actually stand right up after it but I can recognise now that the dizziness and nausea was a concussion. It probably not a coincidence that I've had back problems ever since.

 

[switchback]

In reality the Tombstone would probably be the most painful when hit properly, but its also the issue of how much the move is hyped. To my mind 'Taker has 3 finishers; the Chokeslam, the Last Ride and the Tombstone. The first two he uses like normal finishers, hitting them suddenly and people kick out. The Tombstone is his exclamation point, its the move he resorts to in order to make a point. And, as stated, it fits his character; it gives him a fearsome finisher to fit his character!

 

[Milkyway!]

Mainly because the Undertaker isn't one to screw with on trying to up-stage him by making his Finishing move look like it isn't effective, maybe? People used to kick out of the Last Ride all the time. So much so, that it made the Tombstone that much more deadly, because Taker had moved on to trying to change things up.. and failed.

To add to what Will said,

Well and its his finishing move...The problem with a lot of finishing moves, like, The Stunner, and The Rock Bottom, they were kicked out of several times, before the match ended. It made several finishing moves look very weak. Now, the Tombstone, is the last remaining Piledriver type finisher, in the WWE thats executed on a matchly basis, I find that to say something, in it should be booked as a high impact move.

When you look at the current list of finishing moves, I doubt you'd find one that delivers half the impact of a Tombstone.

Well, in the WWE anyways.

Pedigree: If Triple H delivered it the way he used to, without releasing the arms until the guy's head had rammed into the mat - I might think this move was still half as effective. But in today's match, he barely even holds the arms as he's jumping up, let alone holding them as he's going down. The entire reason the Pedigree was worth half a shit is because your head is unprotected, and you can't bring your arms together to brace the impact.

I think this has a lot to do with HHH's quads. Landing on his knees to protect the head from taking any real damage can, will, and has severely hurt HHH. By not keeping the arms like he used to do, Triple H is free to turn him to the side, like he did with The Big Show and land in a more, angular type position, which keeps preasure off his quads, and allows him to stay healthy, and fit without much risk to him.

Tombstone: So, in the end, you question why no one kicks out of the Tombstone? Or rather why its a move so few have kicked out of? Simple, really.. because its a move that doesn't have a flaw to it. Taker hits 100% of this move, everytime he lands it, because he's dropping you directly ON your head, jamming your entire body upward in an impactful motion.

If you've kicked out of this move, be very thankful for two reasons. First, because you've accomplished what so few have done. Second, because you still have mobility of your body parts.

Agreed.

 

[SJM12492]

If you're asking why he doesn't throw the opponents head all of the way, then I've got one match that will answer your question. Owen Hart vs. Stone Cold Steve Austin for the Intercontinental Championship.
Owen used a Tombstone Piledriver, landed on his ass (noob mistake) and damn near broke Stone Cold's neck. You can see him temporerarly paralyzed for about 2 minutes. It was a miracle that is career wasn't cut short by it.
The Tombstone wasn't his move that he perfected, Undertaker has perfected it. I can't remember one time when he hit it and someone got seriously injured. Undertaker uses his upper body strength to hold the opponents body up and brace most of the fall.
Personally I think he sells the move extremely well and is a landmark move in this business.

 

[GameOver]

Well the smart answers have already been said by a few in this post
A) fail to realise that b4 he gets it on it has been reversed alot of times.
B) Lots of main eventers from the late 80's-now and even some mid carders have kicked out of it

Now it would be true to say that most people don't kick out of it more than once if at all, but that would because he has beaten the shit out of them b4 he delivers it.

The tombestone is an overpowered Pile Driver, well thats the idea in reality it's no more devastating than a regular one other than he lifts up onto his toes first. TheOneBigWill nailed it on the head its a move though that is simple and effective and add to that The Undertakers strength and non care factor (character wise) for his opponents wellbeing you've got a deathknell for whomever suffers it (one way or another)

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Hulk Hogan kicked out of the Tombstone at Survivor Series in 1991!

Actually, Taker never even got the chance to pin him, because Hogan got up immediately while Taker was looking at Paul Bearer.

Owen used a Tombstone Piledriver, landed on his ass (noob mistake) and damn near broke Stone Cold's neck. You can see him temporerarly paralyzed for about 2 minutes. It was a miracle that is career wasn't cut short by it.

I was always given the impression that Austin never fully recovered from that move, and that IS why he isn't wrestling today. He spent the next year appearing just to stun McMahon and throw chair shots and his matches were never as technically varied as they were beforehand, ever again.

Why does no one kick out of the Tombstone? Because it's the most devastating looking move in all of WWE. Just the concept of being held upside down, with your head about 3 feet off the floor, and then elevating higher for a split second, only to be have the force of your entire body weight PLUS Taker's 300 pounds drive the top part of your head into the floor, is enough to make you shudder.

Most guys heads don't hit the floor? Taker doesn't have time to make sure your head is in the exact position to make it look the most realistic. It's safer to have someone's head too high than too low. HHH got a stinger from Kane in 2000 for that reason and that's why the Tombstone was fazed out for a short while and Kane went for just doing the chokeslam, and Taker chose the Last Ride.

People kick out of the chokeslam and Last Ride? Chokeslam yeah, Last Ride? not really the same because Taker usually flops around all exhausted like after he hits it, so it's not like he covers them immediately. That extra 2 seconds recovery time makes a BIG difference.

 

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

[youtube]DxD37Ao6Qyo[/youtube]

That's the best I can find on a 5 minute search. Do you mean it would be worst to take the tombstone kayfabe? Or take it real?

Kayfabe, Your dropped on your head, And it knocks you out, And makes your body numb.

Real, Yes The Undertaker protects everyone he hits the move on, But things are a damn sight worst if hit in real life, Broken neck is the first thought, Concussion next, Among other things.

Holy Freaking Shit. This is nice. He actually freaking jumps. Instead of doing the "Ill just go on my tippy toes and drop", he jumps and slams the head down. What a badass.

HHH isnt the only one that toned down the finisher. If Undertaker did that now he'd get more pops than Air Bourne and Starship Pain. He'd maybe even get more pops that the Reality Check. Nah probably not, that knee to neckbreaker looks devastating.

 

[Shocky]

This is silly. Why doesn't the Undertaker actually drop anyone on their head, Um, take a looka t Steve Austin and Owen Hart from Summerslam 1997 and then ask why you don't drop someone on the top of their head with the entire weight of your body and the person delivering the move compressing your spinal column. You don't legitimately hit moves on guys, because you don't want to kill the person you are workign with. Seriously, what the hell type of question is this.

And as to why the Undertaker and his Tombstone is the move of all finishing moves as far as rarely being kicked out of, i answered that in the first paragraph. People are smart, they realize head, and neck, getting dropped on the top of the head, equals something very bad. Again, spinal compression, and the fear of paralysis exist in everyone, and that's why it's a cringeworthy move when you see it, and think it wasn't hit right. The Undertaker has done such a good job with the move over the years, it's incredible. It's also why he's the only one allowed to use a move that directly effects the neck and spine, because he has made a career out of protecting people with this move. Couple the two facts that it simply looks to be the most devastating move visually, and the fact that he's the only guy that uses piledrivers, and you have your answer.

 

[Motor City Mayhem]

People kick out....Once in a Blue Moon mostly because A)To make it look realistic being dropped on you head from 6ft up and looking like you got decapitated which if real looks like it hurts...And your telling me people will just get up from that. Imagine the credibility of the move if TBK just threw his arm up and kicked out of it.

 

[bulldog76]

I agree with what everyone is saying about the Tombstone.

The Pedigree on the other hand... Imagine a 240lb man locking your head between his knees. Pulling your arms back to prevent you from protecting yourself. Having enough strenght to pull you off of the ground while jumping. Using his knees and his 240lbs to drive you head first into the ground.

Concussion? Busted open? Broken nose? Possible fractures of the skull? A ring would minimize the impact true, but a Pedigree on the stage as we saw last Monday night? Im pretty sure you can find a video where someone was injured because he thought HHH was going for another move and didn't have the timing.

Tombstone is very dangerous but some people on here seem to be trivializing the effectiveness of a legit Pedigree.

 

[ThAwRe$tLiNgGaWd]

The Pedigree on the other hand... Imagine a 240lb man locking your head between his knees. Pulling your arms back to prevent you from protecting yourself. Having enough strenght to pull you off of the ground while jumping. Using his knees and his 240lbs to drive you head first into the ground.

Concussion? Busted open? Broken nose? Possible fractures of the skull? A ring would minimize the impact true, but a Pedigree on the stage as we saw last Monday night? Im pretty sure you can find a video where someone was injured because he thought HHH was going for another move and didn't have the timing.

Tombstone is very dangerous but some people on here seem to be trivializing the effectiveness of a legit Pedigree.

I would agree that the tombstone done correctly is a powerful, destructive move but the old pedigree was by far more devastating.

Anyone remember this little doozy??

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=do6SV7hYQ_4

Can't remember the poor guy's name but I'd take a bet he couldn't remember his own name after that one! The Pedigree that is used now sucks... I'd take a tombstone before something like that!!

 

[Motor City Mayhem]

About the Pedigree although I like the Pedigree as a Finisher it really looks good but when you look closely it dosnt look as defistating. I meen look closely at a Pedigree and you will see that the person getting the Pedigree manages to put his arms down to take the impact of it. In the original when Triple H did it in the beginning they didnt do that, now maybe people had to start doing it because they got hurt but atleast it looked devastading, now im saying its not now but you can see the arms go down.

 

[Black Snow]

I think it's pretty simple. Undertaker is a legend who rarely loses. He's always had this aura of near invincibility. So it only makes sense that his finishing move would have the same sort of reverence.

It helps that his finishing move is a piledriver which has been notorious over the years for causing neck injuries and being banned by different promotions.

Deadly move + Wrestling Legend = Hard to kick out

 

[matty256]

The Pedigree and SCM look more painful? Are you kidding me? I'd rather be driven face-first into the ground or be kicked in the face than have my skull driven into the ground at full throttle from seven feet in the air.

The tombstone piledriver could legitimately kill someone if executed for real. No one is dying from a Pedigree or Sweet Chin Music.

If kicked in the temple or or landing on your temple yeah you can die from that

 

[Razor]

I've realized that I can only think about three superstars who have kicked out of the Tombstone. Kane at Wrestlemania 14, Edge at Wrestlemania 24, and Shawn Micheals at Wrestlemania 25 (let me know if theirs more that have please) why is that? Triple H's Pedigree, John Cena's Attitude Adjustment or Micheals' Superkick are sometimes kicked out of, but usually when we see Taker deliver the Tombstone that means the match is over. Imo The Pedigree or Sweet Chin Music look like they are def more painful. When he's delevering the Tombstone the oppenet's head doesnt even hit the mat. I'm not trying to bash Taker or anything but I just don't see how a move that looks unreal and painless ends match after match never being kicked out of.

Thoughts?

Because. Taker never uses his Tombstone until he really has to. It's always that Chokeslam. Or the weird Death Valley Choke or whatever they call it. Hell's Gate, I think. Meh.

The point is, Triple H/Cena/and Michaels only really have that one finisher. So when they wanna make the match seem unpredictable or make their opponent seem stronger, the opponent kicks out of their finisher. Simple, really. Everyone would immediately believe the Miz was stronger if he kicked out of that FU. Holy shit. They'd be all "WHAT THE FUCK?!?!" True. Because Miz isn't looked at as that strong. He's supposed to stay down. It's not like Cena only uses the FU once in a blue moon. He, Triple H, Shawn Michaels, MVP, Orton, Edge, they all use the same finisher against everyone. It's going to be kicked out everyonce in a while.

Now. Taker. Taker has how many finishers? The Chokeslam, and his Tombstone, and his submission. I think he has one other. Either way, he always uses the Chokeslam. So people are going to kick out of that. It's his FU, his Pedigree, his Sweet Chin Music, his Spear. BUT. He rarely ever uses his Tombstone. That is meant to be the "Oh shit, he wasn't put down after the Chokeslam, and I want this match to end now" move. No one should kick out of that. Unless you're pushing for a unpredictable finish, like Edge kicking out.

As for the way it looks, that's simple. The Piledriver is daaaangerous business. Steve Austin got a broken neck from Hart's rendition of one. Taker either can't, out of concern by the WWE for their wrestlers, or won't, out of concern for his partner out their, go all the way down and force the dude's head into the mat. As for the obvious, "His head doesn't hit the mat," stuff, that can be solved by camera work. No duh we can see it not making contact, we're right in front of the dudes. Off to the side though, with Taker's legs hiding the action, it'd look more effective. Really.