Why ignore other achievements?

[Trill Co$by]

So I've been watching wrestling since the 90s, where it was still an era of respect and promoters admitted to new wrestlers coming having made success in other promotions. Example, AWA would admit it if Ric Flair were to come to their show and they'd make sure fans KNEW he was an accomplished NWA star. They wouldn't say "He's won world titles across the independent scene"...

And in the 90s, these were still major promotions. Or at least, the early 90s they were. But then almost out of nowhere, things changed. Promoters stopped caring about a person's recognition and just started shuffling them in basically ignoring the legacies behind them.

Sure there are a few wrestlers today who will come right out and mention another promotion (ala CM Punk). But in the end, you don't hear TNA's Mike Tenay coming out and saying "Austin Aries made such an impact in ROH that he's got promise for TNA!" or even in WWE you won't hear Michael Cole say anything about CM Punk's ROH endeavors... even though CM Punk will.

And my questions for you are simple.

1) Why not admit a wrestler's previous achievements elsewhere?

2) Would you mind if promoters mentioned past achievements?

 

[The Brain]

Not to be an ass but probably because nobody cares. If Michael Cole mentioned CM Punk is a former ROH champion most people would have no reaction because they don't know what ROH is. They wouldn't care that the man who walked into WrestleMania as champion in front of 78,000 fans was once champion of a rinky dink promotion that draws a couple hundred people. Those that do know what ROH is already know Punk is a former champ and they don't need Cole to tell them that. They would get a momentary thrill that ROH was briefly mentioned on WWE television but nothing more than that. WWE wouldn't benefit from putting ROH over. It's not like they are avoiding mentioning it. It's more like it doesn't even cross their minds.

 

[HBsam31]

I can see both sides this this. Like the Brain said, a lot of today's fans probably would not care if CM Punk was champion in ROH. On the other side I think it could help wrestling as a whole if WWE would mention that their stars were champions in other promotions. Maybe if they said he was champ in ROH fans would tune in to see what ROH is all about. Lets face it WWE is so far a head that mentioning other promotions are not going to hurt their business. I also think that it would make wrestler more believable as stars if their past accomplishments were mention. Booker T made a catch phrase out of being a five time WCW champ, and I would have to say that is what he is most remembered for. He also had quite a good career in WWE as well. Overall I just don't think it could hurt and only help everyone if past accomplishments were mentioned on tv.

 

[Trill Co$by]

Not to be an ass but probably because nobody cares. If Michael Cole mentioned CM Punk is a former ROH champion most people would have no reaction because they don't know what ROH is. They wouldn't care that the man who walked into WrestleMania as champion in front of 78,000 fans was once champion of a rinky dink promotion that draws a couple hundred people. Those that do know what ROH is already know Punk is a former champ and they don't need Cole to tell them that. They would get a momentary thrill that ROH was briefly mentioned on WWE television but nothing more than that. WWE wouldn't benefit from putting ROH over. It's not like they are avoiding mentioning it. It's more like it doesn't even cross their minds.

But then why in the 90s would Vince outright admit Flair's achievements in both NWA and WCW if it didn't matter? Why does opting out one person's achievements fly for the likes of CM Punk and ROH when Flair and NWA are perfectly acceptable?

 

[Remy LaCroix]

Because they want people to believe the wrestlers are working for the best pro wrestling promotion in the country/world, so any titles or achievements they won in other promotions don't mean shit in their company. They're essentially saying they're the big leagues and don't want to promote other promotions as being on par or above them.

I wouldn't mind. As a fan of IWGR I would mark out if I heard them being referenced when, let's say, umm, Black Terry makes his debut. Not the best example, but you get my drift.

 

[Psyclone]

But then why in the 90s would Vince outright admit Flair's achievements in both NWA and WCW if it didn't matter? Why does opting out one person's achievements fly for the likes of CM Punk and ROH when Flair and NWA are perfectly acceptable?

easy... WCW and NWA were still nationwide figures when flair first entered the WWE... Also it was never mentioned (back then at least) that Flair was the WCW or NWA champion... he was only ever called the "real world's champion" because Vince knew, as you should know, that calling attention to your competition is STUPID!!!! If you called him a WCW champion or NWA champion you'd get sued at worst or at best give them a free plug (especially if he was going over your champion at the time, which flair did winning the royal rumble).. That just says "hey this guy came in and beat the WW(E)F champion, he must be better, I'll go look for the NWA or WCW cause they seem to beat us.."

anyways as to why its not important now a days, its again very simple and boils down to 2 reasons...

1) There is no other national company.... The WWE has become a juggernaut... There is no other company that warrants enough appeal or attention that any championships that a wrestler may have earned deserve recognition on the show.. WWE is the "major leagues" of wrestling (sorry TNA, ROH etc..) but its the truth... They are the only company that has the national broadcasting, national recognition, and international tours (yes I know TNA does go to england from time to time, but if you film 80% of your shows from one location, you're not national even with a television audience...)

2) I would bet that 90% of the roster of the WWE (not counting diva's, because frankly I think diva's aren't promoted or hired based on their wrestling skills more than their "Other" skills more often than not..) has had a title reign in at least one other promotion they've worked for... Again this goes back to the WWE being the "Major league" promotion.. At this point every worker in the company from the lowest of the low (Jinder Mahal maybe???) to the highest of the high (John Cena since hes the face of it???) has wrestled elsewhere and more than likely won a title... Any wrestler for the WWE wasn't always a WWE product and wrestled elsewhere at the beginning... If they werent good enough to get a championship somewhere else, the WWE would never have been interested in any of them..

Anyways in essence I understand wanting to bring about the accomplishments of others, but ultimately the WWE won't do that nowadays because A) Everyone has been a champion elsewhere.. and B) You don't want to give free advertising to the 2 companies that are closest to you on the food chain (TNA and ROH)... Why give them free plugs??? Just not good business

 

[FlairFan2003]

When Vince took over, he basically started raiding other companies for established talent, he built his early to mid 80s roster with a collection of major NWA (Greg Valentine, Roddy Piper, Bob Orton, Harley Race, Ricky Steamboat, Jake Roberts, Paul Orndorff), Mid South (Ted DiBiase, Randy Savage, Junkyard Dog), UWF (Terry Taylor, Ultimate Warrior) & AWA (Hulk Hogan, The Midnight Rockers, Curt Henning). The wrestlers originally kept their basic look, character, etc although Vince never acknowledged that they wrestled elsewhere. By 86-87 range, Vince started making the wrestlers undergo major changes to their gimmicks, creating "The Million Dollar Man" Ted DiBiase or the regally dressed King Harley Race. By this point Vince not only wouldnt admitt talent wrestled elsewhere he started creating completely different characters for them, as if to completely erase their memories from wrestling fans.

This was an ultra competitive time in the industry and Vince wanted to promote his show and stars as if no other wrestling existed. By 1990, only the absolute biggest names from the NWA, their biggest rival, were permitted to maintain their same name, look, and gimmick (Road Warriors, Tully Blanchard & Arn Anderson), partly because the audience would not accept them changing and partly because he wanted to rub it in the NWA collective face he was making money promoting their best known stars. Still there was no mention that they had careers before WWE even though they didnt have to change their names or gimmicks.

The NWA/WCW also did not acknowledge that talent wrestled elsewhere although they were not as likely to create "Red Rooster" Terry Taylor, Big Boss Man, or "Mr Perfect" Curt Henning.

The first time a major star switched companies and his past was acknowledged was Ric Flair. Although Vince wouldnt allow WCW to be named on his shows he did promote Flair as an "International wrestling star" who had "won championships around the world" and was in WWE to win the biggest title, the WWE World Title. He even paraded the big gold WCW Title Belt all over TV a full month before Flair arrived with Bobby Heenan advising audiences that "everyone in wrestling knows who wears this belt...and he is coming to the WWF". Still, even though Flair was so well known he not only kept his name & gimmick & was represented as having a successful wrestling career before coming to WWE, his previous employer was never named and the WWE title was portrayed as the biggest title in wrestling.

The basic rule of pretending wrestlers never wrestled before went back in effect after Flair, in part because none of his other signings (Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, HHH, even Steve Austin & Brian Pillman) were as big and he still wanted to portray WWE as the only wrestling company in the world. WCW would make veiled references to outside careers but they never mentioned WWE by name, even with guys like Orndorff, Rick Rude, & Steamboat all on their early 90s roster. Simply put, the Big Two didnot mention each other, and unless you were an established mega star like Flair WWE didnt even admitt you ever wrestled before. By the early 90s most of the other promotions were out of business anyway.

The concept of commonly acknowledging wrestler`s careers in rival companies really didnt start till WCW brought in Hogan & Savage and basically had to admitt who they were to drum up interest in matches vs Flair. WWE didnt really start until after the Monday Night Wars started. They acknowledge past accomplishments from major stars from major companies today because they own the video footage from those companies so it makes business sense (IE Austin, HBK, etc). WWE doesnt acknowledge things like ROH or TNA because they do not have the national recognition that WCW or even ECW had so most of the audience wouldnt know who they are. It would add to their sense of legitimacy if those companies were mentioned by WWE. Since the demise of WCW Vince more than ever promotes his company as the only wrestling in the world.