Why doesn't WWE recognize any other World title reigns ?

[ProWrestlingFan]

Why doesn't WWE recognize any other title reigns like the NWA World Title reigns or the TNA World Title reigns? Christian is a 2 Time NWA World Heavyweight Champion which means he is a 4 Time World Champion but why doesn't WWE count those reigns ? Does WWE thinks they are above all other companies ? What is the difference between the WWE Title's prestige and a NWA World Title's prestige ? NWA World Title is as prestigious as the WWE Championship as it has been held by Ric Flair, Harley Race, etc.

Ric Flair's NWA World Title reigns are counted but not Christian's. Why is that ?

And What do you think about WWE not counting other companies' World Title reigns ?

 

[ABMorales787]

The NWA reigns Ric had were from the WCW days and are under WWE library. Every title reign WWE acknowledges is normally found in there. There are rare instances like Michael Cole calling Gail Kim a 2x Women's Champion during her second stint (she only held WWE's once) but other that, they just don't.

I don't consider it a right move but it's not a wrong one either. They're a worldwide industry. You think they want to mention Christian held the NWA title and make people wonder how he held a belt that technically seized to exist in 1992?

 

[theBec2101]

They might not want to get newer fans confused with other title reigns and with other companies. Not everybody is a diehard lifelong fan and may not know too much. But they did recognize Ron Simmons as the first African American to hold the World Championship in WCW. So I think it’s more of a need to know "at this time" basses.

 

[asiatic7]

The NWA reigns Ric had were from the WCW days and are under WWE library. Every title reign WWE acknowledges is normally found in there. There are rare instances like Michael Cole calling Gail Kim a 2x Women's Champion during her second stint (she only held WWE's once) but other that, they just don't.

I don't consider it a right move but it's not a wrong one either. They're a worldwide industry. You think they want to mention Christian held the NWA title and make people wonder how he held a belt that technically seized to exist in 1992?

Yes, exactly. WWE owns the rights to Jim Crockett Promotions (old NWA), WCW, ECW but not TNA. I don't think WWE wants to acknowledge their immediate rivals existence by giving their titles status. This is the same company that pulled the original Zack Ryder tee shirt out of circulation because the back of the tee said "spike your hair". The mere fact that it said "spike" was enough reason to pull the tee, because TNA airs on Spike TV. WWE is doing what it did in the 80's and early nineties, that is, pretending other wrestling companies don't exsist. They think fans are stupid.

 

[Wolf Pac]

Simple, they don't wanna promote their rivals by acknowledging a part of their product. I know a lot of people are against it and always say "they think fans are stupid", but there are some fans out there who don't even know of TNA's existence, and if they even mention anything relating to TNA then it will get those fans wondering about it and they will go off, trying to find out what all the buzz is about, then they might get into their product & may lose a viewer cause that viewer could find the rival promotion better than the WWE. Honestly I think this is the right move by them, better to be safe than sorry. I know it's a bit different, but did anyone learn anything from WCW announcing the results of Mankind's WWF Championship win on RAW?

 

[The Wolf]

Very interesting topic in my opinion, but to the topic I believe it more depends on the "Superstar"

Christian is the perfect example in fact I said in another posting that when he returned I was hoping for the Christian Cage character but Vince only wants what he can create.

But what gets me about not counting anything from another company is 2 different comments made by Vince himself
1) "The wrestling business is what it is today because of me."
2) "The best era for wrestling as a business was during the monday night wars"

So if both are true why not let fans know about other companies so he can try to get back to the best era or is he just scared of TNA

 

[SethKaelin]

So if both are true why not let fans know about other companies so he can try to get back to the best era or is he just scared of TNA

In my opinion, whilst I would like to see all titles acknowledged, it is all about promoting your own company. You can't do that if you mention others during your broadcasts, doesn't make good for business.

 

[King Patrick Star]

The only reason I can come up with as to why Ric Flair’s other World Titles are counted is because he’s Ric Flair. The number of Titles he has had over the years became one of his catchphrases, so to speak. “16X”, though that’s incorrect, from my last count it was 22, is commonly associated with the Nature Boy. His own autograph has “16X” included.

I personally do count the other World Title reigns and I think the WWE should as well. I consider Christian to be a 6 time World Champion. I consider R-Truth to be a 2 time World Champion. If they ever came back, I would consider Mr. Kennedy a 2 time World Champion, Rob Van Dam a 3 time World Champion, Mick Foley a 4 time World Champion, Jeff Hardy a 5 time World Champion, and finally, Kurt Angle as a 12 time World Champion, including his IWGP Title reign.

My point is it doesn’t matter what the WWE says. It’s True…it’s damn Real!!

 

[One to Remember]

There are rare instances like Michael Cole calling Gail Kim a 2x Women's Champion during her second stint (she only held WWE's once) but other that, they just don't.

You think they want to mention Christian held the NWA title and make people wonder how he held a belt that technically seized to exist in 1992?

They call Tensui a champion in Japan and say more about that then him being WWF I-C champ.. I think they follow Pro Wrestling Illustrated's procedure of dividing NWA World champions from NWA heavyweight champions from 1993 til c. 2006. They started recognizing NWA-TNA's NWA champs as world champs when TNA got stronger. I don't think anyone thinks the NWA title held by Adam Pierce was equal to the one held by Steamboat or Race. It never ceased to exist it just got downgraded sept. of '93 just like it got devalued in 1991 when WCW debuted its World title.
WWE may recognize Dreamer or Taz as former ECW World champions but they wouldn't Snuka or Muraco.

if they even mention anything relating to TNA then it will get those fans wondering about it and they will go off, trying to find out what all the buzz is about, then they might get into their product & may lose a viewer cause that viewer could find the rival promotion better than the WWE. Honestly I think this is the right move by them, better to be safe than sorry. I know it's a bit different, but did anyone learn anything from WCW announcing the results of Mankind's WWF Championship win on RAW?

thats WAY different because WCW and the WWF were for the most part on equal footing. And Foley was actually winning his first WWF title. I'd think for thAT to even have a chance of being repeated the two guys fighting for the TNA title would have to be WWE and/or WCW alums. Hardy vs Angle, Lashley vs Sting, RVD vs Matt Hardy.. And even if it did get them watching TNA if it comes down to clicking between spike and USA like we did every 7 to 12 minutes from 1995-01 i don't see TNA being strong enough to maintain itself in a click war.. Thats why Impact is on SD's old day and time even though a flag ship should always be on monday..

The only reason I can come up with as to why Ric Flair’s other World Titles are counted is because he’s Ric Flair. The number of Titles he has had over the years became one of his catchphrases, so to speak. “16X”, though that’s incorrect, from my last count it was 22, is commonly associated with the Nature Boy. His own autograph has “16X” included.

I personally do count the other World Title reigns and I think the WWE should as well. I consider Christian to be a 6 time World Champion. I consider R-Truth to be a 2 time World Champion. If they ever came back, I would consider Mr. Kennedy a 2 time World Champion, Rob Van Dam a 3 time World Champion, Mick Foley a 4 time World Champion, Jeff Hardy a 5 time World Champion, and finally, Kurt Angle as a 12 time World Champion, including his IWGP Title reign.

My point is it doesn’t matter what the WWE says. It’s True…it’s damn Real!!

That was an accolade Flair was known for not his catchphrase like Booker T.'s. He was called a 18 time champion in WCW by the announcers and commentators too. Even before WCW, ECW,and the AWA were acquired WWE had already recognized the NWA title and the AWA titles via various unification bouts between the WWWF/WWF champs and the AWA or NWA champ. Taz was called the ECW World champion when he brought that belt on smackdown. As for Ron Simmons, WWE has hinted that its WHC is the former WCW title at times. WCW seemed to be under the impression their title was the NWA title eventhough a judge forced them to do away with their puppet NWA title in 1993 and despite the fact that WCW had the WCW and NWA titles as two seperate titles for several years represented by twi different belts and two different champs.

TNA is not big enough for WWE to list its guys as former title olders of that company and when TNA does get big enough WWE won't mention those title reigns for the sake of self preservation so i dont see it ever happening unless WWE absorbs TNA or TNA's champ jumps ship with the belt in Slick Ric fashion..

 

[Jack-Hammer]

As others have mentioned, it has a lot to do with recognizing rival promotions. Personally, I don't think that recognizing Christian as a 4 time World Champion, which would include his two runs with the NWA WHC in TNA, is going to be some sort of game changer for TNA. At the same time, Vince is someone that doesn't want to do anything that might even come across as helping out rival promotions.

TNA isn't in a position to compete with WWE when it comes to money, audience size, ratings and all that. But Vince is also someone that holds grudges to an extreme. Various TNA wrestlers and TNA officials have made derogatory comments about him or WWE in the past and Vince is someone that takes stuff like that very personally. Unless WWE ever owns TNA, they'll never officially recognize any World Championship runs that take place within that company.

To answer the question if WWE considers themselves to be above most other wrestling promotions, the answer is yes and they're perfectly justifiable for thinking that. The WWE is the biggest and most successful wrestling company in the world. Their television programming is watched throughout the world by potentially hundreds of millions of people each week, they generate successful international tours wherever they go, they've become part of the American consciousness & are the first thing most people think of when they hear the term "wrestling" mentioned, the company makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year from live shows, merchendise, DVD sales, ppv buys, etc. The WWE is the biggest bully on the block and they have the frame of mind that they have the best talent in the world. Every wrestling company should have that sort of mind set. Pro wrestling isn't some day care center where all the companies sit in a circle to hold hands and sing happy songs about friendship & how much they love each other. It's a business and WWE treats it exactly as such.

Also, as others mentioned, the NWA/WCW WHC runs that took WWE recognizes came about due to a combination of how legendary some of the wrestlers are and the fact that WWE owns & controls so much of the televised & taped wrestling footage of most of the biggest wrestling promotions in North America for the past 50 years. You'll hear the WWE recognize title runs by guys like Harley Race, Ric Flair, Lou Thesz, Jack Brisco, Terry Funk, Dory Funk, Jr. and numerous others because of who those men are and because WWE owns a ton of taped footage on those wrestlers.

Now of course that doesn't mean that somebody isn't a World Champion just because WWE doesn't recognize them as one. Any other wrestling company can have the exact same view on WWE's titles. It'd be laughable, but they can do it. If that sounds like a double standard, I suppose it is but it can't be helped. When you're the biggest wrestling company in the world, there are certain perks to being the biggest.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The reality is simple as others have said - Vince basically owns the rights to every title that ever mattered as a "World Title", the WWF, NWA/WCW and the AWA or rather he owns the trademarks of the companies they were associated with.

Why does he not refer to Mr. Perfect as a former World Champion? cos it messes with WWF continuity. With a history as long and storied as the WWF there has to be someone who makes sure continuity is right, just won't always promote the whole continuity (Benoit for example)

So they make a trade, if the wrestler warrants it, and it's worth them doing then they will. Take Booker T and his "Five Time...Five Time" stuff... he never had any of those belts in WWE/F continuity for years, but it made sense to let him refer to the WCW titles as they now owned them, the title had been defended on WWF PPV. But a Kerry Von Erich, who was an NWA World Champion, they won't acknowledge that in passing, only when directly relevant (a doc on the Von Erichs or NWA) because it would mess too much with WWE history to suddenly have Mr.Perfect and Kerry Von Erich as 2 former world champions duking it out at Summerslam for the IC title. Not for the kids, but for us who would pick holes and say "That's not right".

So they take the only route they can. Selectively choose belts to promote dependent on the situation. If they own them, if not then they either ignore or use a generic term to avoid insulting our/the IWC fans intelligence.

 

[One to Remember]

Why does he not refer to Mr. Perfect as a former World Champion? cos it messes with WWF continuity. With a history as long and storied as the WWF there has to be someone who makes sure continuity is right, just won't always promote the whole continuity (Benoit for example)

i dont 100 percent agree with that. There are huge inconsistencies with WWE's recognition.
Curt Hennig is referred to as an AWA World champ on his WWE.COM profile. DDP, and Book are referred to as fmr WCW champions while Simmons was referred to recently as a WCW champions, during the APA years as nothing, and during the damn era as a former "World champion" which is the generic title the Rock held and Jericho unified into the WWF title.. The Texas Tornado might not be called a former World champion but Steamboat and Flair are. I think they might be inclined to call King a former AWA World champion though.

So they make a trade, if the wrestler warrants it, and it's worth them doing then they will. Take Booker T and his "Five Time...Five Time" stuff... he never had any of those belts in WWE/F continuity for years, but it made sense to let him refer to the WCW titles as they now owned them, the title had been defended on WWF PPV.

I find it bizarre when he says hes a "5 time, 5 time, 5 time world champion" when hes a SIX time world champion but a 5 time WCW champion. Its like his WWE WHC title reign was discarded in the name of keeping a catch phrase catchy.. But we seen Taz come to SD with his ECW title, and WWE reinstate the ECW title but Jimmy Snuka is never referred to as the inaugural ECW champion ever.. Vader isn't really hyped as a 3 time WCW champ either and that would had helped him a tad in his ill fated come back a few years ago..

But a Kerry Von Erich, who was an NWA World Champion, they won't acknowledge that in passing, only when directly relevant (a doc on the Von Erichs or NWA) because it would mess too much with WWE history to suddenly have Mr.Perfect and Kerry Von Erich as 2 former world champions duking it out at Summerslam for the IC title. Not for the kids, but for us who would pick holes and say "That's not right".

So they take the only route they can. Selectively choose belts to promote dependent on the situation. If they own them, if not then they either ignore or use a generic term to avoid insulting our/the IWC fans intelligence.

I disagree with your premise. I don't believe that being a World champ in one company, even if its huge means you should be World champ everywhere you go. Wendham didn't need to be WWF champ just because WCW made him their NWA champ and he wasn't going to ever be WCW's WCW champ either. Lance Storm could have added the WCW title to his U.S., Crusierweight, and Hardcore titles but he didn't need more then the tag title in ECW and i couldnt see him over the I-C title in the WWF. Ditto for Dean Douglass.. If Scott Hall ever won a world title it should had been in the WWF not the AWA and maybe not WCW.. Didn't Von Erich get the NWA title out of sympathy for his family deaths? I could only see Dean Malenko as an ECW champion. Austin should not have held the WCW title, the ECW title and of course the WWF title were for him. WWE doesn't know what it's doing or what it seeks to promote..

 

[AndThat'sTheBottomLine]

this thread is pointless they dont have to and honestly who would care?The answer is no one.
Do u think that tna or the nwa would do the same?
i could care less it some one is an ex tna champion or ex nwa champion blah blah blah because the truth is the wwe is the top dog when it comes to wrestling programs and why should they want to promote lesser shows? just sayin

The recent NWA and TNA are one and the same it just got renamed after Jeff Jarrett sold it to the Carter's. TNA does achknowledge other world title reigns. Ask Kurt Angle.

 

[Just Do It]

Yes, exactly. WWE owns the rights to Jim Crockett Promotions (old NWA), WCW, ECW but not TNA. I don't think WWE wants to acknowledge their immediate rivals existence by giving their titles status. This is the same company that pulled the original Zack Ryder tee shirt out of circulation because the back of the tee said "spike your hair". The mere fact that it said "spike" was enough reason to pull the tee, because TNA airs on Spike TV. WWE is doing what it did in the 80's and early nineties, that is, pretending other wrestling companies don't exsist. They think fans are stupid.

Don't worry about the WWE - your post makes you look stupid on its own.

Does Pepsi mention Coke in it's advertising or history? No. Why? For the obvious reasons - not because it thinks it's audience is "stupid". Why would WWE mention TNA in any capacity? It would not help them out in any way in the current climate, all variables as they are.

Besides, TNA to WWE isn't even a Pepsi / Coke analogy. It's Pepsi vs some own brand cola.

 

[One to Remember]

The recent NWA and TNA are one and the same it just got renamed after Jeff Jarrett sold it to the Carter's. TNA does acknowledge other world title reigns. Ask Kurt Angle.

What is Angle supposed to know..? The position of TNA was almost identical to WCW's between 1991-3, and JCP/Mid-Atlantic. It was a prominent territory bolstering up the NWA in exchange for being apart of the NWA family anf having access to titles with older lineages and legendary wrestlers that can be referenced in its lineage to give commentary title holders a rub.

The TNA titles are all 5 years old.. The X title is a decade.. The NWA still exists and is still in business 64 years down the line.. Jarrett's TNA has never been renamed to anything.. TNA recognized the NWA title because it was formally its top title, it recognizes the IWGP title because of a working relationship with NJPW, I don't hear TNA recognizing WWE titles or ROH titles..

 

[THTRobtaylor]

i dont 100 percent agree with that. There are huge inconsistencies with WWE's recognition.
Curt Hennig is referred to as an AWA World champ on his WWE.COM profile. DDP, and Book are referred to as fmr WCW champions while Simmons was referred to recently as a WCW champions, during the APA years as nothing, and during the damn era as a former "World champion" which is the generic title the Rock held and Jericho unified into the WWF title.. The Texas Tornado might not be called a former World champion but Steamboat and Flair are. I think they might be inclined to call King a former AWA World champion though.

I find it bizarre when he says hes a "5 time, 5 time, 5 time world champion" when hes a SIX time world champion but a 5 time WCW champion. Its like his WWE WHC title reign was discarded in the name of keeping a catch phrase catchy.. But we seen Taz come to SD with his ECW title, and WWE reinstate the ECW title but Jimmy Snuka is never referred to as the inaugural ECW champion ever.. Vader isn't really hyped as a 3 time WCW champ either and that would had helped him a tad in his ill fated come back a few years ago..

I disagree with your premise. I don't believe that being a World champ in one company, even if its huge means you should be World champ everywhere you go. Wendham didn't need to be WWF champ just because WCW made him their NWA champ and he wasn't going to ever be WCW's WCW champ either. Lance Storm could have added the WCW title to his U.S., Crusierweight, and Hardcore titles but he didn't need more then the tag title in ECW and i couldnt see him over the I-C title in the WWF. Ditto for Dean Douglass.. If Scott Hall ever won a world title it should had been in the WWF not the AWA and maybe not WCW.. Didn't Von Erich get the NWA title out of sympathy for his family deaths? I could only see Dean Malenko as an ECW champion. Austin should not have held the WCW title, the ECW title and of course the WWF title were for him. WWE doesn't know what it's doing or what it seeks to promote..

That's the rub... modern wrestling fans take "World Champion" to mean either WWF/E or WCW/NWA/WHC champion.

Older fans remember the AWA (which was a legit world title) and ECW (which wasn't really), Snuka was the Eastern Championship Wrestling champ, if they were going to acknowledge the first ECW World champ, then it's Shane Douglas.

Every thread that says "should Hennig have been World Champ?" Well he was... the AWA folded first but it was around earlier as a title than the WWE title. Was Von Erich a World Champ? Yes... and he got it instead of his brother as you mention... but it's in the books...

Windham got the title again, as a desperate measure cos Flair left and Lex was on the outs for the WBF.

WWE knows exactly what it wants to promote... WWE... So for fans, the "storied history" of the biz will include the AWA title and every world champ would get their proper resepct from Vince. but Vince isn't interested in that, only what sells a DVD or is fodder for his "network" to use. But absolutely, that AWA title "should" carry over... it just never will. Vince isn't interested in being "the keeper of the flame" with his HOF or lineage... just what makes WWE look good in that lineage and history.

 

[Just Do It]

Great post by THTRobTaylor above, well thought ouot and to the point. The best thing he said was "Vince isn't interested in being "the keeper of the flame" with his HOF or lineage... just what makes WWE look good in that lineage and history." and it's so true. He is interested in his iwn company only -and rightfully so. When I look at my wife - I like to think about our history - not what she got up to with another bloke ;-)

 

[One to Remember]

They've referred to him as an 11 time champion. I'm pretty sure he hasn't won the TNA title that many times.
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You need to know the difference between "TNA World champion" and "TNA's World champion." One refers to a specific title and the other refers to what an orginization considers to be its world title or top title. Like if you look at the wikipedia on a wrestler's profile and scroll down to the "championships and accomplishments" and see how they list titles for Great Muta. Hes listed as a NWA champion and NWA TV champion under the WCW umbrella. Jeff Jarrett is listed as the WWF's NWA North American champion. All the pre 1997 WWF Light Heavyweight champions are on another company's roll call of former champions. So its the same principle with TNA, just as all NWA champions from 1991-3 are former World champions of WCW and are equal to WCW champions even though they arent in the WCW title lineage. Tommy Dreamer is a former ECW champion of ECW, a former WWE's ECW champion and he is a champion twice in its lineage.. WCW's NWA champions are in the NWA's title lineage..
That is what TNA means by that, he held TNA's top title or TNA's World title 11 times. The Rock is a 9 time World champion in the WWF/E because of this rationale.

That's the rub... modern wrestling fans take "World Champion" to mean either WWF/E or WCW/NWA/WHC champion.

But I mean should a modern day fan be expected to know about a company that shut down in 1991? They probably don't even know the U.S.S.R. shut down in 1991, don't expect too much from them. At all.. ECW's status was always in dispute, no one gets the station NJPW airs on, World Wrestling All-Stars was obscure at times, so it was hard to understand World titles existed outside of the WWF and WCW. There just was NO DEBATE that both of those companies had actual World titles. You don't need WWE propaganda in your ear to have that view point.

Older fans remember the AWA (which was a legit world title) and ECW (which wasn't really), Snuka was the Eastern Championship Wrestling champ, if they were going to acknowledge the first ECW World champ, then it's Shane Douglas.

I am only 24, I learned about the AWA reading PWI, reading some of their flashback articles, and my interest in the AWA was fueled by guys like Hennig, Scott Hall, Zybizco, and HBK. That was based off what I had seen of those guys in WCW and the WWF though. Id think you'd have to be between 35 and 75 to remember watching a company that was in business from 1960-91. Also in 2005 I had ESPN classics and at 3 am they showed AWA shows.

My thing with Snuka is this, i give him recognition for getting the ball rolling. I always say he should be addressed as the ingaueral ECW champion, I never say to anyone he was an ECW World champion and I'd never be like "well even though he didn't land on Backlund after that jump atleast he was a World champion in ECW.." ECW wasn't that big in 1992. But I don't exactly understand why Buddy Rogers is a WWWF World champion if WWE was just regional in 1963 itself. And the WWF rejoined the NWA a few times downgrading their own title and you can see those periods listed on the Wrestling Information Archive or puroresu.com right above their title histories. ECW wasn't really even big 'til '97 so only Douglas' last reign was truly a World title reign. There is a tendency to retroactively award statuses. It's sad though if Jerry Lynn gets to be a ECW World champion but Bam Bam Bigelow was just an ECW heavyweight champion..

Every thread that says "should Hennig have been World Champ?" Well he was... the AWA folded first but it was around earlier as a title than the WWE title. Was Von Erich a World Champ? Yes... and he got it instead of his brother as you mention... but it's in the books...

I got onto the bleacher report about an article like that and I don't even think the writer responded. If WWE kind of thinks its WHC is the former WCW title and if WCW kind of hinted its title was the NWA title I would expect by WWE's logic that Von Erich would be a former "World heavyweight champion."

WWE knows exactly what it wants to promote... WWE... So for fans, the "storied history" of the biz will include the AWA title and every world champ would get their proper resepct from Vince. but Vince isn't interested in that, only what sells a DVD or is fodder for his "network" to use. But absolutely, that AWA title "should" carry over... it just never will. Vince isn't interested in being "the keeper of the flame" with his HOF or lineage... just what makes WWE look good in that lineage and history.

Although not by design I hope the WWE dvds and library and station benefits defunct orginizations by bringing them notoriety and giving some relevance to their former athletes. WWE can't prevent me from watching an AWA dvd and thinking their wrestlers were superior to the WWF's or that Nitro provided better action then Raw. He may not wanna be the keeper of the flame but hes by default blowing air on the embers.

 

[HBsam31]

Definitely has a lot to do with recognizing their rival. I always wished they recognized all titles as it would make the champions more prestigious having won title all over. The always seemed to recognize WCW title reigns because they own it, but I can't remember if they used to recognize the AWA reigns. There may have been no one left buy the time they bought the AWA rights. I doubt they will ever recognize the TNA title reigns while they are still around.