Why does 80's and 90's wrestlers more charisma then PG wrestlers today?

[mizowns]

The 80's and 90's wrestlers characters was so full of life and charisma.

Why is it that todays wrestlers lack so much of it?

You could be stuck for every word in a promo with a 80's 90's wrestlers, here it's more like a joke sometimes.

Why does todays wrestlers lack so much of charisma?

 

[Jonyboyuk2]

They were - but that was because they had to work the territories system. They had to get over faster and stronger in front of an audience in them days; without the WWE machine behind them. People forget how weak WWE was between 1992 and 1997; the only thing that kept them afloat was the talent of which you speak. Now days it is down to WWE to push talent and they even write their promos for them.

Triple H is actively pushing talent via NXT but WWE needs to go further than that if it is to create stars of tomorrow. When you haven't got talent managers like Jim Ross or leaders in the locker room like Bret Hart (he trained edge, christian, The Rock, Ken Shamrock and others), the product suffers.

 

[rge2010]

Lets not forget that in the 80s and 90s these Superstars were VERY over the top.

The wrestling industry is different now. The characters aren't larger than life, over the top etc and are more 'real'.

Macho Man and Hulk Hogan wouldn't 'get over' in today's game like they did 25 years ago. Imagine Randy Savage from the 80s and 90s cutting a promo on Raw this Monday. It would be a comedy act and deemed a joke!!!! Same could be said for Hogan.

 

[OldSchoolWrestlingFan]

They were - but that was because they had to work the territories system. They had to get over faster and stronger in front of an audience in them days; without the WWE machine behind them. People forget how weak WWE was between 1992 and 1997; the only thing that kept them afloat was the talent of which you speak. Now days it is down to WWE to push talent and they even write their promos for them.

This is 100% correct!! Back when I was a child there were still some territories around & it was up to the wrestler to cultivate there character, to get over with the fans/bookers, etc - they didn't just play a persona they became the persona, which meant there promos/matches were an extension of themselves.

I have said over & over my major complaint with WWE is that they try to force characters on fans & on the performers themselves - they don't allow their talent to develop naturally. Who in their right mind would want to be a character like Brodus Clay(was), Fandango, & the list goes on & on! They bring in these amazing Indy talents then want to revamp everything that makes them memorable. I see them allowing some NXT talent to develop naturally but will they allow them to carry over to the main roster - lets ask the Ascension!

Think about Taker - people know that he doesn't shoot lightning from his hands, make the lights come on by raising his hands & isn't really a dead man but he came from an era when you saturated yourself in your character. When that gong hits people get absorbed in him - it's because he isn't Mark Calloway......he IS the Undertaker! He was able to slow build this awesome persona & people just gravitated to him. I see a similar thing happening with Bray - they are allowing the performer to become the character naturally & the fans notice!

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Lets not forget that in the 80s and 90s these Superstars were VERY over the top.

The wrestling industry is different now. The characters aren't larger than life, over the top etc and are more 'real'.

Macho Man and Hulk Hogan wouldn't 'get over' in today's game like they did 25 years ago. Imagine Randy Savage from the 80s and 90s cutting a promo on Raw this Monday. It would be a comedy act and deemed a joke!!!! Same could be said for Hogan.

I disagree...this assumes that guys like Hogan and Savage wouldn't change to suit the time. They had a lot of charisma and their personas may've been products of the 80s, but these are smart, talented guys...they would've gotten over even today, especially a guy like Savage who could work like no other.

I think the territory system, kayfabe, as well as the not nearly as corporate outlook of the WWF at that point helped guys as well. We accepted more outlandish characters because of kayfabe. The territories meant more exposure to the promo part of the game, and few promos were truly scripted even in the WWF. I'd imagine guys today would do much better in the 80s because there was more room to screw up then. A guy like Reigns would be allowed to go out and cut near weekly promos on Superstars of Wrestling or Wrestling Challenge.

Very few guys could cut promos effortlessly. Hogan had his internal script and catchphrases to fall on and playing the same character week in and week out, he got very good at it. The real geniuses were guys like Bobby Heenan, Rick Rude, Jake Roberts and Ted DiBiase...you probably could've handed them anything and they'd make it sing. But go back and watch a Hart Foundation promo, or a Rockers promo, or Junkyard Dog, Tito Santana, or any number of guys and you'd realize that they'd be absolutely crucified today for their perceived ineptness at delivering promos. In the case of Micheals, he got better probably because of being allowed to practice, trip and fall. Hart really never got much better, but he was good enough. Hell, I remember some of Triple H's old Hunter Hearst Helmsley promos and he was as stiff and wooden as can be.

Today's WWE doesn't really allow those same opportunities to grow and fail and try again when it comes to promos and building characters. It's all scripted and not much room for ad-libbing.

 

[shafe_41]

They 80s and 90s wrestlers were's so full charisma because they wrestlers was just all betters than today. They was much over the top mores than today.

I can't even try to go on typing like the OP because it just makes my brain hurt. Next question please!

 

[FlairFan2003]

This is 100% correct!! Back when I was a child there were still some territories around & it was up to the wrestler to cultivate there character, to get over with the fans/bookers, etc - they didn't just play a persona they became the persona, which meant there promos/matches were an extension of themselves.

I have said over & over my major complaint with WWE is that they try to force characters on fans & on the performers themselves - they don't allow their talent to develop naturally. Who in their right mind would want to be a character like Brodus Clay(was), Fandango, & the list goes on & on! They bring in these amazing Indy talents then want to revamp everything that makes them memorable. I see them allowing some NXT talent to develop naturally but will they allow them to carry over to the main roster - lets ask the Ascension!

Think about Taker - people know that he doesn't shoot lightning from his hands, make the lights come on by raising his hands & isn't really a dead man but he came from an era when you saturated yourself in your character. When that gong hits people get absorbed in him - it's because he isn't Mark Calloway......he IS the Undertaker! He was able to slow build this awesome persona & people just gravitated to him. I see a similar thing happening with Bray - they are allowing the performer to become the character naturally & the fans notice!

Taker is a bad example....First, the premise for the character was incredibly stupid, a walking dead guy who works as a grave digger for a dishonest funeral parlor owner ??? This was the same two year period in WWE that gave us Repo Man, Skinner, and Papa Shango so Vince & WWE were full of ridiculously crappy character creations back then. AND Taker was forced down our throats ad naseum back then, just like the others. The talent of Mark Calloway is what got that ridiculous angle over (while the others very quickly died and faded into obscurity).

Sometimes even a talented performer cant overcome a hideous gimmick. Glen Jacobs has done fine as Kane but he couldn't get over if he gave $100 bills to the audience as evil dentist Isaac Yankem (how sad Brett Hart went from being World Champ to feuding with this guy). Kevin Nash is going into the WWE HOF Sunday but it wont be thanks to Vinnie Vegas (who wasn't that bad compared to OZ).

The territory system, and the fact that multiple outlets played in front of large crowds and on TV certainly helped talent learn how to work crowds and talk. The AWA still ran stadium shows in the mid 80s, ROH couldn't fill a High School Stadium let alone draw 50,000 fans to a single event today. World Class often sold out major arenas in the Dallas Fort Worth area, does TNA draw 10,000 fans anywhere they play ? World Class held multiple shows in Texas Stadium back then drawing over 30,000 each time, including over 43,000 for the event where Kerry finally beat Ric Flair for the NWA Title. How many shows combined would TNA have to stage before the cumulative attendance reached 43,000 ??

The bigger problem is the promos - todays wrestlers have very little say if any in their promos and TV time, the biggest stars of past eras had considerable input into creating their speaking style, catch phrases, etc and learned on their own what worked and what didn't.

No WWE script writer wrote Austin 3:16 - He ad libbed that as an end to a legendary promo after a PPV and fans flocked to it - How many catch phrases did The Rock create on his own - Ric Flair created Space Mountain as a throw away line related to his character's womanizing after reading a newspaper article back stage about Spring Break in FLA and increased business at Disney Land! It was the wrestlers creativity that made their promos and TV time special and created the differences between their characters that made them stand out - The very best (like those three) were among the more creative but at the same time standing out and being different is hard when you are given strict orders to deliver pre written scripts verbatim crafted by a small group of people trying to write 5 hours of weekly TV every week for over 30 characters - Think wrestlers today sound homogenous (the same)....You're Right!

 

[Shocky]

Guys jumped around from territory to territory, fine tuning their craft and the character they were trying to portray. More competition and no guarantees make you work harder. Many old wrestlers will tell you, the best characters are those that are an extension of the person playing them. The WWE manufactures characters today, and slaps them on talent. Then they tell them how to act, script promos, and lay out everything so no one deviates from said script. Without competition, it will never change.

 

[Doctor Awesome]

I think the industry has changed so much in that dept that plenty of guys likely are equally charasmatic as stars of the 80'/90's but the cuffs are on them w/scripted promos. Very few guys now are given free reign (minus bullet points) to speak as they will and it's often evident that they are memorizing lines. They have to make sure and get terms like ppv name, wwe network, wwe universe and other promotional babble in, hindering their ability to tell a story. I'd dare say many guys from that era would really struggle now because most of their sizzle came from their promos and not in-ring ability. Hogan wouldn't be the star he is, for sure!

Side note: I'm just trying to imagine Iron Sheik handed one of those scripted Roman Reigns promos w/Mean Gene conducting the interview. "Facks the script, Gene Mean...my intelligent Jewish man."

 

[whoopin' ass]

That's easy - time and character. They were given the opportunity to develop a character and not just tossed out there and sink or swim like today. Look at Fandango and Adam Rose - they got a pretty good initial push for new wrestlers but when it didn't work, they were dropped quickly. Now look at The Rock - he got an initial push too but it wasn't as strong as thiers and he was allowed to develop a character. When you had the territories, it was easy since you worked your way up so you had a chance to develop it before you hit the big time but today, wwe wants it now. When you are assigned a character instead of developing one, you can run into a lot of problems and we are seeing that every week. Problem with wwe is that they won't admit to this and in some cases keep pushing guys who really are not going anywhere like Wyatt.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

My guess is that wrestling was new at that point in your life. You may have been a kid. You didn't have the exponentially increased entertainment choices that you have today. Wrestling existed in such smaller quantities than today. Also being a kid you may have actually believed that these guys were not acting. You were not jaded from watching wrestling for ten, twenty, or thirty years prior.

When looking back at that period you are nostalgic for the Flairs, Hogans, Pipers, and Savages of the world but you forget about the Bundys, Kamala's, Santanas, and Ortons.

Seriously, tell me about Steamboat's life and charisma. I loved the guy but he wasn't doing anything that extraordinary in the charisma department. JYD was my favorite non-Hogan face but I would cringe if he came out on Raw in 2015. Honkey Tonk would be exhausting and repetitive just like we complain about so many guys today.

This has nothing to do with territories or scripts. McMahon gave most of those guys new characters when he brought them in. The idea that you have to play someone who is an extension of your real self is BS to make marks actually believe a little bit more in the character. Stone Cold is no hero and other than women he isn't going around solving his problems with violence. Hogan said on a podcast recently that Hulkamania wasn't who he was but it gave him something to strive to be. Is The Rock an obnoxious, sarcastic asshole? They are actors acting. Some are more talented than others but for the most part the love and admiration you had for the characters of yesteryear is the same love a new generation is feeling today.

 

[boywithbluehanger]

Honestly, I don't think they were any more charismatic then than they are now. I'd say it hasn't changed. They had colorful, cheesy, gimmicks back then and still do. The acting back then was (for the most part) just as bad as it is now. The live audience determines who does and does not have charisma, based on their response. So overall, the only key difference I notice, is the fanbase. Because the fans have been allowed the opportunity to intentionally affect the outcome of careers and story arcs, we're essentially a collective (and unwanted) part of the creative team.

In the 80s and most of the 90s, the fans accepted their role as the "moral barometer" that played a crucial role in delivering the appropriate response for protagonists and antagonists. But now, an ever-growing and very large portion of the fanbase choose to consider the opinions and news that they receive online, to dictate the crowd response. If fans weren't privy to much of the information that they're told online, the responses would greatly differ and far more wrestlers would thus be considered charismatic.

For instance, if fans didn't know that Daniel Bryan was from the indies, they likely wouldn't have supported his push from low-midcarder to main-eventer. If Zack Ryder didn't have a trendy youtube show, they wouldn't have supported the idea of pushing him. If various online reports wouldn't have exposed negative stories about Triple H's politics, he wouldn't draw the level of heat he's been able to in the past 5-6 years. If Batista wasn't rumored to win the 2014 Royal Rumble, he wouldn't have been forced to turn heel.

So in all, the characters are mostly the same. It's just the fanbase:

a. Is disenfranchised by the spoiling nature of the internet

b. Refuses to strictly play the part of the moral barometer anymore

 

[John McCass]

The are many points why you find the current wrestlers relatively less charismatic than 80s and 90s guys.

1. You were a kid back then.
Yes, as GSB mentioned that you should have been a kid at that era. You were more into the character than you suppose to be today. Being a kid, you should have thought that this was real. Heels are bad guys and faces are good guys. This comes into mind being a child. When I watched it in my childhood I found it more interesting than I look up to it nowadays. Watching pro wrestling with a child mindset is always awesome. You don't know what reality is and what kayfabe is. Children just want the good guys to succeed and bad guys to be punished. Watching a kid is very much enjoyable. When I ask a child WWE fan "How do you like the product?" The reply is "I love it." When I watched WWE as a kid in early 2000s, it was very enjoyable. Just let alone the reality, and watch what it offers, don't think its scripted. I bet, with this mentality if you watch the product, you will be enjoying. Nowadays, there are smarks more than true wrestling fans. We hate something and love something. We raise our voices when we feel need to. All these didn't existed that ago.

2. They had edgy characters.
In those olden days, the characters had edge. They were larger than life and not realistic people just wanting to get the belt around their waste. Kayfabe was in an enormous quantity. As long as kayfabe existed, they looked up to ideas on how to book a character. Nowadays, all the characters are real life people. With the kayfabe gone, they don't have enough ideas to come up with. Hulk Hogan resembled a hero that never gave up. Randy Savage worked majority of his career as an evil. They had some interesting gimmicks which gave them some credibility. John Cena plays what Hulk Hogan played but he is never praised for his work. Now, we call it stale. But, they have very less idea to work upon.

 

[FromGlasgow]

I think the wrestlers today are more talented on actual wrestling skills and athleticism than wrestlers of the 80s and 90s but it is the actual charisma, characters and storytelling I feel that is really lacking today, To be honest a lot of the interview segments today I feel bored watching them and they nearly all seem to sound the same as each other nobody seems to shock anymore or stand out but who knows maybe most peoples favourite era for watching wrestling is whatever era they grew up in.

 

[mizowns]

Honestly, I don't think they were any more charismatic then than they are now. I'd say it hasn't changed.

LOL, are you saying that Reigns, Bryan, Cena has charisma like Hogan, Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Flair, Piper?

Please let's be real.

There is a huge difference in charisma. I think some of it has to do with kayfabe but also they were living their gimmick better back then.

 

[boywithbluehanger]

LOL, are you saying that Reigns, Bryan, Cena has charisma like Hogan, Austin, Rock, Undertaker, Flair, Piper?

Actually, you made those comparisons. Not me.

Determining who has charisma, is relative to each person's perspective So the only way to reasonably measure it for a discussion, would be crowd response. Rock, Austin, Undertaker, Flair and Piper, would all be considered charismatic because of the massive crowd responses they would get. If no one cheered or booed for them, you wouldn't even think to put them in your post. The live audience and fanbase dictates who has charisma. Otherwise, we're just talking about each of our personal preferences...which would be a pointless discussion since no one feels the exact same about each of the wrestlers that have ever been on a WWE roster.

But I'll humor your decision to discuss who we personally believe to be charismatic. You might think that the guys you mentioned from the past received a louder response because they were better talents but aside from The Rock, I'd disagree.

If you're legitimately asking about my opinion:
- Bray is as charismatic as Undertaker.
- Punk was as charismatic as Piper
- Ambrose is as charismatic as Austin.
- Reigns is as charismatic as Nash.
- Bryan is as charismatic as Steamboat.
- Cena is as charismatic as Hogan.

* I left out The Rock since I don't believe any other wrestler could conduct the crowd the way he can/could

However, a burgeoning portion of the fanbase are not as interested in these guys because of their persistence to disregard and oppose the direction of the writing. Most of those 80s and 90s talents didn't have to deal with that pre-Attitude Era (rise of internet popularity).

 

[mizowns]

If you're legitimately asking about my opinion:
- Bray is as charismatic as Undertaker.
- Punk was as charismatic as Piper
- Ambrose is as charismatic as Austin.
- Reigns is as charismatic as Nash.
- Bryan is as charismatic as Steamboat.
- Cena is as charismatic as Hogan.

You are delussional lol.

They got charisma, and that's why they got a crowd going.

That you even compare it like they all got charisma like them is just funny.

Look up nearest mental hospital on your GPS. Or are you already inside?

 

[rmp0012002]

It's actually simple. Wrestlers back then were allowed to be themselves more and could ad lib and that came out but today you are told exactly what to say so if a wrestler comes out as bland and with no charisma it's because creative did a poor job matching up the character with the correct person and how he was written to act.

 

[SoulTrain4]

Nostalgia is very strong in the wrestling community. There isn't much of a difference between then and now.

The in-ring product today is leaps and bounds better than the 80s and the 90s.

The major difference is the age of the fan, booking philosophy and kayfabe being intact.

The main heel wasn't being pinned every week, guys that couldn't talk wasn't forced to talk extensively on TV, it was okay to be a good wrestler and that's it, and crowds knew their place.

 

[mizowns]

Nostalgia is very strong in the wrestling community. There isn't much of a difference between then and now.

The in-ring product today is leaps and bounds better than the 80s and the 90s.

We are not talking about in-ring product, we are talking about charisma.

Undertaker is still wrestling today, still has more charisma than the entire roster.

Same with Sting coming in.

 

[SoulTrain4]

You can't quantify charisma, it's subjective and proven that most people have no idea what the word means.

It's like when internet dweebs misuse wrestling terms like "buried", "squash", "job" etc.

 

[nwojeff]

I knew that nostalgia would be brought up in this discussion as a reason why us long-time fans prefer wrestlers from the 80s and 90s over today's wrestlers. But that's not the case for me personally, and I'm willing to bet it's not the case for many others as well. If this were truly a case of nostalgia and us being kids back then being the only reasons why we liked the product much more than today, then if we were to go back and watch the same stuff we loved back then right now, we wouldn't think the same of it. We'd think it was corny, hokey, boring, etc.

But when I go back and watch stuff from 1984-2000 on the WWE Network or on DVDs/tapes, I get almost the same amount of enjoyment out of it as I did when I was watching it as a young kid or young teenager. The difference in charisma, character development, and overall talent (but not in-ring talent) is so significant when compared to today's wrestlers that it's almost like watching two entirely different forms of entertainment.

My opinion, and the opinion of many other long-time fans, is that the product during the Hulkmania era and Attitude era was awesome, from 2001-2006 it was watchable and often mildly entertaining with great in-ring action, and from 2007-present, with few exceptions (mainly veterans and legends like Michaels, Undertaker, RVD, Jericho, Rock, HHH, etc.) the product has been mostly unwatchable, boring, and at times downright cringeworthy.

Today's wrestlers are vastly inferior from any standpoint you look at it with the exception of pure athleticism and match quality. But I'd even debate that point because a fast-paced match with better athletes don't always equal better wrestling. Many people, myself included, prefer the 80s/90s style of slow-paced, psychological matches where guys actually knew how to sell, rather than fast-paced spot fests.

 

[Woodstuff]

The biggest difference between old school 80s/90s characters and the modern locker room is that the old school guys didn't have the IWC constantly staring at them the through a microscope.

It's not about Charisma, it's about living in an age where people have access too lots of information and supposed 'backstage news'. You could get away with being a goofy dead man or an OTT patriot in the 80s/90s, because the audience turned up/tuned in expecting to be entertained, nothing more. Undertaker fans weren't tuning in and thinking "Man, Mark Calaway has come a long way from being Mean Mark Callus (or w/e his name was)". BNB has bags of charisma, as does Ambrose, Ziggler, Bryan, Rollins ect. Being charismatic, and being confident enough to shout a catchphrase into a microphone are two massively different things.

 

[LuckyLouie]

I am going to tell you one word.......Cocaine!
Looking at some promos by Hogan, Dusty, Worrior....they were all tripping balls of coke and thats why they were so hyped and amped up to do crazy stuff. Now since they test for coke most likely...you dont get hat natural crazy. Not thats that bad.
But can you imagine some of today guys coked up like Hogan or Macho!? I know how bad coke is and I dont think they should use it. But im just saying, cocaine was a huge part of wrestling from what I got. Maybe I watch too much old timers talk about the "good ol days" but it seems they were all HIGH AS BALLS. And they didnt care as much since WCW and other places were around. And since WWE is the only place to make a WORLD wide name for yourself, many of the guys are not going to push the edge to step outside the comfort zone of the boss. Look at Lex, coming from WWE to WCW. Many other guys did it for the money, and they could just fool around. Now since its all scripted, no one can show their true self. Back in that day YOU as the wrestler found your gimmicks IT factor. Anyone can be a redneck, but there is only one stone cold! Or even the Rock, I dont really know his gimmick but he is intense and I respect him. You cant get excited about something you dont totaly love. So I think if they guys could really open up and be themselves without fear of losing a job, it would jump 200xxx over

So in terms.
1. Cocaine
2. Places to work.

 

[whoopin' ass]

If you're legitimately asking about my opinion:
- Bray is as charismatic as Undertaker.
- Punk was as charismatic as Piper
- Ambrose is as charismatic as Austin.
- Reigns is as charismatic as Nash.
- Bryan is as charismatic as Steamboat.
- Cena is as charismatic as Hogan.

Bray is nowhere nearly as charismatic as Undertaker, Reigns is no Nash and while I like Ambrose, he isn't Austin. Ambrose is a interesting to watch but Bray and Reigns are jokes. Can anyone explain why Bray walks to the ring with an LED lantern that is "smoking" from dry ice and he then blows it out? Even with a real lantern, there would be no smoke or at least not as white and visible as what he has. That is the problem with a lot of these guys - they are undermined by stupidity. Imagine if that was for Taker - the druids walk out with flashlights instead of torches. You would laugh your ass of but with Wyatt, he is so charismatic and evil. It's all part of the package. There are guys who are charismatic today but there are so many more who are not. Look at your midcard - most show no personality. I don't think that is the wrestlers fault, I think that is more with wwe creative as you keep hearing of the guys coming up with ideas that get shot down. Justin Gabriel just quit over it.