Why do WWE (ladder) matches suck mostly nowadays?

[Any007]

Compare the present WWE matches to the WWE matches in the attitude era - especially: ladder matches. WWE ladder matches in the attude era could be compared to ECW matches - they had huge impact and great actions. Nowadays, they aren't exciting that way.

Is this because of PG? Or is this, because WWE wants the wrestlers not to be hurt?

 

[Nate DaMac]

Well I happen to think that Ladder matches are just as good now as they were then. But if I had to come up with a reason why they aren't as good, it's because most of the spots have already been done before.

You seem to be implying that they don't take as many risks, to which I have to say you are incredibly blind. They do just as many breath taking spots as they alwasy have, it's just when they do things that have already been done they don't seem as incredible.

All in all, I have to assume that you're just one of those TEH ATTITUDE ERA WAS BESTZ kind of guys since you really offered up no real reasoning behind your post.

 

[ABMorales787]

Wha? They do? I didn't realize it. I must be in lalaland or something. I was under the impression that the latest few Ladder Match were some of the best matches of their respective year. Sheamus/Morrison, Del Rio/Christian, Edge/Hardy, Punk/Hardy, MITB 2010 II.

Either the regular matches suck major ass to make the Ladder matches seem like that, or I'd say you're wrong. I honestly prefer these over most crash-fests.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

They just aren't that special anymore. Simple as that, and have become too repetitive. It's no different from any of the other gimmick matches nowadays. For Ladder Matches imagine the gap between HBK/RAZOR, HBK/RAZOR II, and HHH/ROCK, they were all done in 1994 - 1995 - 1998 respectively so that makes THREE Ladder Matches in almost 4 1/2 YEARS!!!

No doubt this attributed to making them more special and more innovative. These days there are just too many ladder matches a plenty, and there's that case of diminishing returns.

It also doesn't help that the last innovation in Ladder Matches was Wrestlemania 2000, I mean there were great ones after that but all look identical to one another.

Heck the feud of 2008 was HBK and Jericho and its so strange too see the Ladder match being the most underwhelming.

 

[Lionheart_Y2J_fan.]

The HBK/Y2J Ladder Match was the most underwhelming of the feud?!? More like the most OVERWHELMING match of the feud. That was the best match of 2008 in my opinion. I agree with Candle Jack here the ladder matches over the past 3 years really have been the best of their respective years.

 

[The Perfect Max]

I for one think the Ladder Matches today are as awesome as the ones in "The Attitude Era". Isn't that funny. Everything! Everything in "The Attitude Era" was better, wasn't it?

You have the Money in the Bank Ladder Matches. These matches are more intruiging as the Triangle Ladder Matches and TLC Matches in 2000 - 2002 because they actually have a great advantage at the end.

Christian vs Alberto Del Rio. You can't tell me that it wasn't a great match! Yes, Christian won, but it still delivered and more.

Edge vs Alberto Del Rio vs Kane vs Rey Mysterio. A Fatal-4-Way TLC Match was pretty good. Hell! The entrance stage was used for Mysterio's advantage. A pretty good back and forth match. Also, it was for the Heavyweight Championship.

Sheamus vs John Morrison. The winner would become the number one contender for the WWE Championship. Awesome. Mainly because it was John Morrison during the Morrison/Sheamus feud. Awesome.

The thing is, that if five Ladder Matches in 7 months. Back then, there wasn't even 7 Matches in history. BUT, it doesn't meen they aren't as good.

 

[Dan E. Inferno]

I'm not agreeing with the opinion that today's ladder matches suck, but if you think they do, predictability is probably the reason. How many different ways are there to fall from the top of a ladder, or use the ladder as a weapon. As for coming up with something new, it's probably not as easy as you think, considering how many ladder/TLC matches there have been. It's probably all been done before, at least the stuff you can perform moderately safely. However, i've got to say that I think recent ladder matches have been as good as you could expect. Del Rio vs Christian was good, Fatal 4 Way TLC at TLC last year was good and the Sheamus vs Morrison match was absolutely brilliant. Nothing wrong with present day ladder matches as far as I can see.

 

[JDavis328]

I understand where your comming from. I dont think they suck,but they are also not as big as previous years ladder matches. And I know exactly why its that way. Some people are gonna dislike what I say,disagree with it,and even bash it but in the end it has truth to it.

The reason Ladder matches are lack luster compared to the Attitude era is simple,look who ruled the ladder match in the attitude era. The Hardys,E&C,and The Dudleys. Only one member of one of those teams remain in WWE. Those guys seriously did things no one even thought of and were so revolutionary wether your a fan of them or not,they really raised the bar in Ladder matches/TLC matches. Infact they raised so high that now days alot of people find ladder matches lack luster in comparison. Its not a fair thing to feel because the ladder matches now days are not bad,just the bar for ladder matches are so high up,its extremely difficult to actually reach it. Now im not saying if WWE brought back all these guys and did it,that it would be on par with past matches. They are older thus slower and banged up. They would still likely put on one amazing show but it wouldnt be the same ether. I think we wont see that level of ladder matches until we see some young hungry talent that isnt getting noticed in a ladder match really get the oppertunity from the bookers to raise the bar. Im sure guys like Evan Bourne,John Morrison,Kofi Kingston and the Usos if given a good amount of time and the right build,could put on some amazing ladder matches.

 

[VinnieSunshine]

OMG!!! *bangs head against the desk* ANOTHER Attitude Era vs PG thread!


Personally I happen to think the ladder matches are just as good...if not better than the AE.

Think of it this way...would the AE matches have been as good without all the blood and unneeded violence attached to it?

At this moment, the matches are different in context for multiple reasons.

1) the violence has been toned down.

2) Guys are not trying to get hurt because it means they get put on IR and dont get the show bonus if they cant wrestle. For example...Joey Mercury got his nose broken and bled profusely because of a botched spot with the ladder involving Matt Hardy and him.

3) It probably has something to do with kids in that, back in the day you heard so many stories of kids geting injure or dying because they tried to re-create moves. SO the less high spots you do, the less kids aren't going to imitate.

4) Most of the guys that participate in them are older than ones from years before.

5) Not as many high flyers as there used to be, OR not as many guys wanting to take a big bump.


Thats just my thought, but NO ladder matches are pretty much no different than the AE.

 

[Blue Chipper]

They suck because you don't understand professional wrestling. You fail to see that storytelling makes a match, not cool bumps or spots; and there's clear storytelling in today's gimmick matches. In other eras, I think it was very spot-heavy and less about telling a story and thus you are displeased with the change.

 

[Karilas]

They suck because you don't understand professional wrestling. You fail to see that storytelling makes a match, not cool bumps or spots; and there's clear storytelling in today's gimmick matches. In other eras, I think it was very spot-heavy and less about telling a story and thus you are displeased with the change.

Gotta disagree with this to some extent, not all gimmick matches do a better job of telling a story these days, as Hell in a Cell has not only been devalued to the point of irrelevance, but the use of the match in the context of a special edition PPV just doesn't make sense. I'm all for either doing away with Hell in a Cell matches completely, or at least ditching the PPV and only using HiaC as a blow-off to the most epic, over the top personal feuds.

I guess my point is that sometimes the story needs brutality, in those situations the modern adaptations don't quite hold up.

As for ladder matches, they're doing just fine considering how many there are per year nowadays.

 

[DethMetal]

They suck because you don't understand professional wrestling. You fail to see that storytelling makes a match, not cool bumps or spots; and there's clear storytelling in today's gimmick matches. In other eras, I think it was very spot-heavy and less about telling a story and thus you are displeased with the change.

Well, that was it in a nustshell. Although all ladder matches don't tell a story, I think the ladder matches of today are just as good as they used to be. Did you see Christian v. Del Rio? Edge v. Hardy(2009)? Each Money in the Bank match steals the show. There's nothing wrong with ladder matches.

 

[Snap Suplex]

I can offer a couple reasons: 1) they've been beaten to death (as others have said, a lot of it has been done before) 2) There were two things 10 or 15 years ago that made the match more special 1-Developed and established characters going into the match 2-properly built/developed story lines going into the match.

Remember, these days it's more about entertainment (ie focused story telling OUTSIDE of the ring, back then was more wrestlingn (ie focused story telling INSIDE of the ring-during matches)

 

[MizMark11]

I have to disagree. I think we've seen some great ones in the past year.

MITB(both matches) last year were great, the fatal four way at TLC was also great, Sheamus vs JoMo was fantastic, Swagger vs Kofi vs Dolph was also enjoyable, and Christian vs ADR was pretty good as well. We don't need crazy spots(Jeff Hardy/Edge) in ever ladder match to make it good.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

It sounds like, more or less, the OP has basically stated that he/she just isn't into WWE ladder matches anymore and that the Attitude Era was great.

That's all well and good but as far as the Attitude Era goes, yes it was fun and produced some great stuff. However, it was not this golden age of greatness in which everything that took place was some grand epic. The AE was not that, not even close, not by a looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong shot.

As for WWE ladder matches, I've got no problem with them whatsoever. The ones I've seen over the course of the past year or so have been very entertaining in my opinion.

Raw & SmackDown! MITB matches - MITB ppv, 7-18-10 - Both of these matches were lots of fun and delivered all the spots that a lot of fans do enjoy seeing here. Personally, I thought the WWE sent an interesting message with both matches. Surprisingly, Kane won the SD! MITB match whereas The Miz won the Raw MITB match. Kane is a long time veteran that most had written off as having had his best days in the sun a long time ago, so I thought it was great to see a guy that's worked his ass off and been a very solid presence in the mid-card/upper mid-card scene for well over a decade to get his shot. As for The Miz, it was a sign of things to come. The Miz was pegged to be the next main event star in the company and he's someone that's gone on to show that he deserved to win and he earned the spot.

The Miz vs. Jerry The King Lawler - WWE Monday Night Raw, 11-29-10 - This was a TLC match for the WWE Championship that took place approximately 1 week after Miz cashed in his MITB contract and defeated Randy Orton for the title. This match may have lacked in high spots but it more than made up with that in storytelling. Jerry Lawler was never the most athletic wrestler but he could always tell a story and the crowd was eating it up that night. There were a few parts where it really looked as if Lawler was going to win the title. It gave some people a nice little scare and helped generate immense heat for Miz & Michael Cole.

John Morrison vs. Sheamus - WWE TLC ppv, 12-19-10 - This was a ladder match to determine the #1 contender for the WWE Championship. As with their other matches, this was a competitive, physical match between two guys that have great chemistry with each other. Morrison gave another standout performance and there were some pretty nice high spots coupled with good storytelling. JoMo gets the win, becomed #1 contender and faces Miz in what's not only JoMo's first WWE Championship match but is the first WWE match of 2011.

Kane vs. Edge vs. Rey Mysterio vs. Alberto Del Rio - WWE TLC - This match had the storytelling, it had the high spots and it had four wrestlers competing that have really good chemistry together. Everybody looked strong throughout the match and everyone ultimately looked good at the end of the night.

Christian vs. Alberto Del Rio - WWE Extreme Rules, 5-1-11 - This was one of the best matches of 2011 thus far and, if I'm not mistaken, is the only ladder match WWE has had this year even though that'll change with the MITB ppv. Again, two guys that work great together, competitive, told a great story and Christian winning the WHC was a fantastic moment. I was legitimately a little choked up as I've been a fan of Christian for a very long time. This match ultimately shot Christian into the main event picture and his 3 way feud that's gone on with Orton & Sheamus has not only been one of the best of the year but has helped cement Christian as someone that does belong in the main event.

I can understand if someone's tastes have changed regarding ladder matches. After all, we've seen a lot of them over the course of the past decade or so. The fact that the WWE has often injected more storytelling into their ladder matches over the past few years is a plus in my opinion. High spots are nice and all but there's only so many times and so many ways you can see a man fall off of a ladder and watch him go splat against the canvas. Just like the use of blood in some matches in the past, ladders are a tool to be used to further a match along. Of course, you can't have a ladder match without a ladder whereas you can have a great no DQ match without blood, but the ladder is still a prop. If the action isn't there, if the story isn't interesting, then the fans won't care. Oh sure, they'll all cheer whenever someone does a suicide dive off a 20 foot ladder, but that's not the mark of a great wrestler. Anybody will get big cheers and crowd reaction for that. There ultimately has to be more brought to the table than the high spots.