Why Do We Have This?

[Tenta]

Greeting folks, and welcome to something that I can only hope becomes a weekly thing, titled

Why Do We Need This​

And admittedly, this is going to more or less deal with things in society that I question it's relevance, and wonder why people are in so much fucking love with these things. This isn't to say that I don't understand why they're here, per se, but to just give some sense of a debate as to why we have these things right now, and why they are relevant to our society. These will probably come from random things that come about during the week, and our first topic is no different. First, I'll give the context as to why the subject is being raised to my, and hopefully your, attention. The topic for today is;

Strip Clubs​

The Context: This weeks context comes from nbcsports.com. Admittedly, I am a Falcons fan, and being a Falcons fan, I've been watching the ongoing saga that has been Michael Vick's life. Placed in jail for two years for running a dogfighting ring, the man has been reduced to absolutely nothing. Now, he's trying to get himself back into the league, and trying to make a positive name for himself. Unfortunately, he seems to have encountered a minor setback in the public eye. Here's a portion of the article from NBC Sports.

According to "a number of gossip blogs," Michael Vick was spotted at a Virginia Beach strip club with Allen Iverson on Monday night.

Now then, I'm not taking away any blame for Michael Vick being in a strip club. He's an adult, and free to make his own decisions. However, I see another issue in the matter regarding this story. I'd never really thought of this before, but;

Why Do We Have Strip Clubs?

First of all, they're extremely degrading to the dancers, and women in particular. They portray women in a less than flattering light, and lead for seedy, rather dubious men to ogle at these women, placing them on display as if she were in a Zoo or something. Instead of goig to Night School, many women (and men. I'm aware that it works both ways.) take the alternate route of taking jobs in these dirty and lewd places, probably to support their children, or even other members of the family. It's a way to make money, which seems to be an issue with strippers. Meanwhile, you have customers that degrade these men and women to the status of animals, staring at them as if they were pieces of meat. You then have them throwing themselves at them, throwing money and what have you just for some attention, and to see just a bit of that women's giblets.

Plus,not only that, but I fail to see what type of help they provide to society, and what they do to better society. What about a strip club is good, per se? I know why it's appealing, but what is so good about how people find it appealing? I understand that I'm coming off as high and preachy, but what good comes out of strip clubs that another, more positive alternate, can't be explored. For the strippers, there has to be better places to work. And even if there is no work place, there's always the chance to go to Night School. For the people that frequent strip clubs, there's always the ability to get a fucking girlfriend/boyfriend!

What's that? Don't have a significant other? There's always speedates, blind dates, I really don't care what you call it. There's always a way to find "love" in better, less seedy places.

So again.... Strip Clubs... What is so good about these places? Why in the fuck do we have these?

 

[klunderbunker]

We have them because people are sexual creatures. At the end of the day, most men want to be around attractive females. When they can't do that on their own, they knwo they can pay for it. While it's not real, if you can let yourself go, you can convince yourself that it's real. It's the same as having a drink. it doesn't fix things, but it takes your mind off of them and loosens you up. If you can't get a real woman for awhile, this offers an outlet for you.

Now personally, I think that's bullshit. I refuse to believe that no one wants you. Somewhere out there, there is a woman or man that wants to be with you. I've never been to a strip club and I likely never will. What's the point? You can pay for someone to pretend to be interested in you for a few minutes? SO what? You're still more than likely sleeping alone that night. Why not get a real girlfriend that not only can you see naked for free, but you get to actually touch? It's based on fantasy vs. reality for me, and I don't see the point in living in a fantasy world.

There's also the whole issue from the woman's side, but I'll save that for later.

 

[Phoenix]

It's basically the equivelent of social pornography that you can share with your friends. I mean where they're overpriced to the limit, it's basically an oasis to men, it's a place they can escape to where women are your slaves, as you rightly said, in a highly degrading manner. Realy, you think, fuck, I need get out of here, I need some place to escape to from my troubles or girlfriend dumpings or something, thus this place is created. It is a place for escapism of which places like the cinema don't provide and is cheaper than going on a holiday.

But I know what you mean about it, when you do think strongly, what is the point of it? I've seen Pole Dancing used in a gymnastic way and it serves a better purpose than that in a strip club, that sort of tainting really affects a good exercise for people.

EDIT: I've been to a strip club for a friend's birthday one time, it honestly isn't that memorable. I've got better memories with my exs than going there. You have one naked girl dance for you, it's nothing special. But word of advice, if you ever go and they ask you for a second dance. Say NO!

 

[X]

Why Do We Have Strip Clubs?

Why not would be a better question.

First of all, they're extremely degrading to the dancers

Not really. Have you ever actually met a stripper? Most of them LOVE their jobs and get paid a shit load of money to just fucking dance a few times a night. Dance. That has to be the easiest job on the face of the planet.

They portray women in a less than flattering light, and lead for seedy, rather dubious men to ogle at these women, placing them on display
as if she were in a Zoo or something.

That's pretty ridiculous for you to call the majority of strip club patrons "seedy, dubious men". Every man likes tits, I don't care if you're the god damn Pope, you like tits. Plenty of perfectly responsible and mature adults have gone to strip clubs, and there's nothing wrong with it. Nothing.

Instead of goig to Night School, many women (and men. I'm aware that it works both ways.) take the alternate route of taking jobs in these dirty and lewd places, probably to support their children, or even other members of the family.

What do you think Night School is free Tenta? A lot of strippers actually dance so that they CAN get money for school. It's one of the easiest jobs to get and it requires absolutely no education or experience. You want to take away one of the few jobs that these women can get in the first place? How's that going to help the kids?

It's a way to make money, which seems to be an issue with strippers. Meanwhile, you have customers that degrade these men and women to the status of animals, staring at them as if they were pieces of meat.

NEWSFLASH: WE ARE PIECES OF MEAT.

We're all flesh and blood and veins, that's it. We have natural, carnal instincts and a strip club is an easy way to satisfy those needs for a person who can't actually get a woman like the one they're watching strip in a real relationship.

This is the big flaw in your argument, and the argument people have against porn and how it "degrades women". It's actually the exact OPPOSITE Tenta. These women hold all the power in this situation, they have men throwing money at them for simply showing their bodies. The strippers are the one in control here, not the men in the audience.

Plus,not only that, but I fail to see what type of help they provide to society, and what they do to better society. What about a strip club is good, per se?

What's alcohol "good for"? What are video games "good for"? For that matter Tenta, what the fuck is wrestling "good for"? It's entertainment. The dancers are performers, no different from a wrestler or a musician or a model.

I know why it's appealing, but what is so good about how people find it appealing? I understand that I'm coming off as high and preachy, but what good comes out of strip clubs that another, more positive alternate, can't be explored. For the strippers, there has to be better places to work.

I love you Tenta, but you're really talking out of your ass right now. Are you a woman? No. So why are you acting like you know what's in their best interest? It's their choice to strip, no one is forcing them to.

I mean, take a second to step back and actually look at their job description. They make hundreds of dollars per night for simply DANCING. Shit I WISH I had a job that easy.

But oh no, they "degrade" themselves by showing their bodies right? Wrong. I'm so sick of modern society's disgust over the naked human body. It's the most natural and beautiful thing that has ever graced this planet, and you guys want it to be covered up all the time? Fuck that. They're just body parts! No different from a toe or an arm!

And even if there is no work place, there's always the chance to go to Night School. For the people that frequent strip clubs, there's always the ability to get a fucking girlfriend/boyfriend!

Please step off your high horse Tenta.

A) Night school costs money. It's not free.

B) Some people can't/don't want a spouse. Is there something wrong with that? No.

What's that? Don't have a significant other? There's always speedates, blind dates, I really don't care what you call it. There's always a way to find "love" in better, less seedy places.

People don't go to strip clubs for "love" Tenta, they go to see naked women. If you want to point me in the direction of a legal speed "dating" service where the chick shows up naked, says nothing to me, and I can leave whenever I want to, than PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD do.

So again.... Strip Clubs... What is so good about these places? Why in the fuck do we have these?

The better question is why in the fuck shouldn't we? If we don't "need" strip clubs, than why do we "need" wrestling? We don't. It's entertainment.

 

[Tenta]

We have them because people are sexual creatures. At the end of the day, most men want to be around attractive females. When they can't do that on their own, they knwo they can pay for it.

I see the sexual point of the argument, KB, but I refuse to believe that a strip club is the best option. Again, when one considers all of the outlets possible, a strip club seems so bottom rung to me. You could always consider blind dates, speedates, whatever the course of action may be. Even a blind squirrel finds a nut every now and then, so even with this thought in mind, why not take the chance, and make yourself available.

Besides that, in the instance I'm referring to, it's a star athlete. You don't mean to tell me he doesn't have better options, KB?

It's basically the equivelent of social pornography that you can share with your friends.

It's called PlayBoy, though, man. I mean, really, you can get all jus tthe same in a PlayBoy magazine. That's the comparison I would make

 

[Tenta]

Why not would be a better question.

Well, I've said my reasoning as for why not, so let's head right into it.

Not really. Have you ever actually met a stripper? Most of them LOVE their jobs and get paid a shit load of money to just fucking dance a few times a night. Dance. That has to be the easiest job on the face of the planet.

Admittedly, I've never met a stripper, Xfear. I'm not sure if you have either, but if indeed you have, I'd like to ask two questions;

1. Did that person have a high sense of self-esteem, and a good personal view of themself?
2. Would they still be stripping if there was a better option out there.

That's pretty ridiculous for you to call the majority of strip club patrons "seedy, dubious men". Every man likes tits, I don't care if you're the god damn Pope, you like tits. Plenty of perfectly responsible and mature adults have gone to strip clubs, and there's nothing wrong with it. Nothing.

Perhaps dubious was a poor choice of words, I'll admit. Yes, anyone can like a strip club, but if you're of the realization that none of this is real, and that you aren't finding any true companionship while there, why not make the steps to better your view of self, and find some way to have companionship that isn't reliant on money?

What do you think Night School is free Tenta? A lot of strippers actually dance so that they CAN get money for school. It's one of the easiest jobs to get and it requires absolutely no education or experience. You want to take away one of the few jobs that these women can get in the first place? How's that going to help the kids?

Yes, by any stretch of the means, I get why women take the job, X. Don't get me wrong, I do. Again, though, how do you feel it helps the woman's esteem to be involved in such a thing? You don't feel that a woman would feel degraded having to take off her clothes in front of strangers she barely even knows?

NEWSFLASH: WE ARE PIECES OF MEAT.

We're all flesh and blood and veins, that's it. We have natural, carnal instincts and a strip club is an easy way to satisfy those needs for a person who can't actually get a woman like the one they're watching strip in a real relationship.

True, yes. But we're also forgetting a couple things in which is debateable whether or not we have. That would mainly be a conscience, and a soul. I'm not saying that men or women who go to strip clubs don't have souls. But is there any way at all in which they can really block it off from themselves for about two hours that these women are being objectified? At some point, it hits you, right?

This is the big flaw in your argument, and the argument people have against porn and how it "degrades women". It's actually the exact OPPOSITE Tenta. These women hold all the power in this situation, they have men throwing money at them for simply showing their bodies. The strippers are the one in control here, not the men in the audience.

really? They're the ones in power, X? Ok, quick question; what happens to the dancers that perform their routines, and get no money out of it? The men have just as much a choice to not pay the women, and if they weren't to pay them, what happens to the women? The women need the money as much as the men needs the stripper.

What's alcohol "good for"? What are video games "good for"? For that matter Tenta, what the fuck is wrestling "good for"? It's entertainment. The dancers are performers, no different from a wrestler or a musician or a model.

This, we'll come to agree with to some extent. However, there's one thing I'll point out;

The things you mentioned involve you taking the onus on yourself. Video Games & Such are some things that involve someone doing something upon oneself. For matters of entertainment such as wrestling, I'll agree with you on, as yes, Divas do some of the same thing. And look at how bad of coverage the WWE gets for this.


I love you Tenta, but you're really talking out of your ass right now. Are you a woman? No. So why are you acting like you know what's in their best interest? It's their choice to strip, no one is forcing them to.

Admittedly, this I'll agree with to an extent, and for what it's worth, you've opened up my eyes to things about a strip club that I've never noted. I hope this doesn't change your view of me that I'm making such a debate. However, again, I offer this... If a woman, with a good sense of self esteem were to be allowed a better chance of life, wouldn't they take it. It's the basic need to survive that brings them to stripping, not some joy. I'll agree that to some extent, they may enjoy the job. I admit that I'm not completely right in portraying it as a "bad" thing. But I don't feel it's nearly as good as you portray it, either.

But oh no, they "degrade" themselves by showing their bodies right? Wrong. I'm so sick of modern society's disgust over the naked human body. It's the most natural and beautiful thing that has ever graced this planet, and you guys want it to be covered up all the time? Fuck that. They're just body parts! No different from a toe or an arm!

Again, I'll agree to some extent, as I love the human body myself. Again, it all depends on environment in this case. How were you raised to view the naked body? Personally, I was raised to love the human body, but certain places were meant to be shared within an intimacy between someone else, and a caring of which I guess you could call "love". Love is one of those words we could get really iffy on. But the idea of showing said parts, to me, ruins that sense of intimacy, at least for me.

Please step off your high horse Tenta.

If it appears I'm on a high horse, I apologize. I even realized that while typing this, I may be getting preachy. I've modifed a few of my opinions on this matter

A) Night school costs money. It's not free.

And given how you've described stripping, it seems like a pretty sweet life. But again, I feel that stripping is nowhere near as bad as I initially portrayed it, nor near as good as you do. It's has both it's positives and negative sides to it. And for me, the negatives far outweigh the positives.

People don't go to strip clubs for "love" Tenta, they go to see naked women. If you want to point me in the direction of a legal speed "dating" service where the chick shows up naked, says nothing to me, and I can leave whenever I want to, than PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD do.

And as much as I love said human body, I feel there should be an extent of intimacy in the matter, even if said intimacy is to have disappeared that morning. There must have been something more to that person than meets the eye for you to like a person to find yourself getting that intimate with a person. That's just my view.

The better question is why in the fuck shouldn't we? If we don't "need" strip clubs, than why do we "need" wrestling? We don't. It's entertainment.

And I see the points, and do admit, you've changed some of my views. But here's my ultimate question; what good does a strip club to do a person, besides the monetary causes it provides for a woman, and the entertainment it does for a man. Admittedly, yes, those are good qualities. But isn't there a higher chance of finding something that can involve entertainment, that doesn't involve the same feelings of degradement that I would feel in the matter. I've been to one for someone's birthday... I wasn't entertained. I saw guys grab at girls, one guy spit at a girl, people beaten up in the strip club, and an alleged case of sexual assault that went down there, all in one night. I see that's not the whole population of the strip club. But through my experience, I just don't see the value in it.

 

[X]

Admittedly, I've never met a stripper, Xfear. I'm not sure if you have either, but if indeed you have, I'd like to ask two questions;

I've known several. And not through going to strip clubs, from knowing people that became strippers later on. They're normal people like you and me.

1. Did that person have a high sense of self-esteem, and a good personal view of themself?

One of the dancers I know definitely does not, but the rest do. They always talk about how hot they are. Why would they have low self-esteem when they're constantly being paid attention to for their beauty?

2. Would they still be stripping if there was a better option out there.

That's a pretty bizarre statement. Would you still be at your job if there was a better option?

Every dancer I've ever known has LOVED their job Tenta. They make more money in a night than I do in a week, without putting in even 1/10th of the amount of work. What's not to love?

Perhaps dubious was a poor choice of words, I'll admit. Yes, anyone can like a strip club, but if you're of the realization that none of this is real, and that you aren't finding any true companionship while there, why not make the steps to better your view of self, and find some way to have companionship that isn't reliant on money?

...Because a strip club isn't about "companionship", in any way. At all. You're thinking of prostitutes.

Yes, by any stretch of the means, I get why women take the job, X. Don't get me wrong, I do. Again, though, how do you feel it helps the woman's esteem to be involved in such a thing?

I REALLY do not get where you're getting this idea that stripping causes low self esteem or something. It's in fact the exact opposite. Men are willing to give you their hard earned money just to see your body. That's a pretty big compliment to a woman's looks, is it not? If anything stripping BOOSTS self-esteem Tenta.

You don't feel that a woman would feel degraded having to take off her clothes in front of strangers she barely even knows?

If she felt degraded, than why the hell would she be doing it? No one is forcing these women to strip, they choose to. I don't have any sympathy for someone feeling degraded for doing something voluntarily. If you don't like the way it makes you feel, don't do it. Simple as that.

True, yes. But we're also forgetting a couple things in which is debateable whether or not we have. That would mainly be a conscience, and a soul. I'm not saying that men or women who go to strip clubs don't have souls. But is there any way at all in which they can really block it off from themselves for about two hours that these women are being objectified? At some point, it hits you, right?

The "soul" is nothing more than a silly theory that humans have invented for themselves. They don't exist. Consciousness and "souls" are very different things keep in mind.

really? They're the ones in power, X?

Damn right they are. They're the ones who these men are worshipping and throwing money at for simply standing infront of them without a shirt on. That's some serious fuckin' power if you ask me.

Ok, quick question; what happens to the dancers that perform their routines, and get no money out of it? The men have just as much a choice to not pay the women, and if they weren't to pay them, what happens to the women? The women need the money as much as the men needs the stripper.

Never heard of free strippers. Where might I find these? Seriously though, strippers do receive a paycheck. They don't work strictly for tips or something.

This, we'll come to agree with to some extent. However, there's one thing I'll point out;

The things you mentioned involve you taking the onus on yourself. Video Games & Such are some things that involve someone doing something upon oneself. For matters of entertainment such as wrestling, I'll agree with you on, as yes, Divas do some of the same thing. And look at how bad of coverage the WWE gets for this.

Again Tenta, these women are there voluntarily. If they don't like being "exploited" they don't have to take the job do they?

Admittedly, this I'll agree with to an extent, and for what it's worth, you've opened up my eyes to things about a strip club that I've never noted.

Good, that was my hope.

I hope this doesn't change your view of me that I'm making such a debate.

Not at all man. I'm very passionate when I debate and I may completely disagree with you, but I fully respect you.

However, again, I offer this... If a woman, with a good sense of self esteem were to be allowed a better chance of life, wouldn't they take it.

I really don't get where you're getting at with this. Say I worked at a Burger King, and someone came up and offered me a multi-million dollar job as a sports announcer. Would I take it? Shit yes I would. Does that mean we should close down all the Burger Kings in the world?

It's the basic need to survive that brings them to stripping, not some joy.

...But you've already admitted you've never met a stripper. So how would you know that Tenta? On the contrary, all of the dancers I've met LOVE their job. They LOVE dancing.

I'll agree that to some extent, they may enjoy the job. I admit that I'm not completely right in portraying it as a "bad" thing. But I don't feel it's nearly as good as you portray it, either.

I'm not portraying it as some wonderful family-friendly job Tenta. It's easy, and you get paid a shit load of cash for it. That's not my opinion, that's the truth.

Again, I'll agree to some extent, as I love the human body myself. Again, it all depends on environment in this case. How were you raised to view the naked body? Personally, I was raised to love the human body, but certain places were meant to be shared within an intimacy between someone else, and a caring of which I guess you could call "love". Love is one of those words we could get really iffy on. But the idea of showing said parts, to me, ruins that sense of intimacy, at least for me.

That's fine if it ruins that sense of intimacy for you Tenta, no one's trying to change your mind on that. But your opinion is just that---an opinion. You can't take your personal morality as a reason to shut down a multil-billion dollar industry. If you could, don't you think mothers all across America would have had video games banned years ago?

If it appears I'm on a high horse, I apologize. I even realized that while typing this, I may be getting preachy. I've modifed a few of my opinions on this matter

Don't worry about it bud.

And given how you've described stripping, it seems like a pretty sweet life. But again, I feel that stripping is nowhere near as bad as I initially portrayed it, nor near as good as you do. It's has both it's positives and negative sides to it. And for me, the negatives far outweigh the positives.

What negatives? That the woman's feelings might be hurt? That outweighs making hundreds of dollars a night for a few rudimentary dances? I'm pretty sure most people would agree that they'd gladly have their feelings hurt in exchange for a few hundred dollars. I sure would.

But again Tenta, you have to remember. This is voluntary. If the negatives outweigh the positives for a woman, she doesn't have to work there. Should that mean that everyone who does enjoy their job shouldn't be allowed to do it anymore? You don't rule the majority by the minority opinion.

And I see the points, and do admit, you've changed some of my views. But here's my ultimate question; what good does a strip club to do a person, besides the monetary causes it provides for a woman, and the entertainment it does for a man. Admittedly, yes, those are good qualities. But isn't there a higher chance of finding something that can involve entertainment, that doesn't involve the same feelings of degradement that I would feel in the matter. I've been to one for someone's birthday... I wasn't entertained. I saw guys grab at girls, one guy spit at a girl, people beaten up in the strip club, and an alleged case of sexual assault that went down there, all in one night. I see that's not the whole population of the strip club. But through my experience, I just don't see the value in it.

That's perfectly fine if you don't see the value in it Tenta. That's why you have the choice of never having to go to a Strip Club if you don't want to. But just because you don't approve of it, that doesn't mean you get to force your morals on everyone else and have strip clubs shut down or made illegal or something. If you don't approve of them, than don't go to them. Simple logic mate.

 

[Tenta]

I've known several. And not through going to strip clubs, from knowing people that became strippers later on. They're normal people like you and me.

I'm not saying they aren't normal. What I am saying is that I feel that there's more to life than just taking off clothes. I don't understand what brings them to it, other than things that are of this matereal world? Without the money, is the job nearly that glamorous?

One of the dancers I know definitely does not, but the rest do. They always talk about how hot they are. Why would they have low self-esteem when they're constantly being paid attention to for their beauty?

Well, sure, that is the case for their physical selves, but how about for their mentality? How would they feel about their child knowing their doing these things? I just don't get how a stripper can block that out of their mind?

That's a pretty bizarre statement. Would you still be at your job if there was a better option?

Absolutely, in heartbeat. I'd do whatever I can to better myself in a situation. But I wouldn't do something to comprimise my sense of self, and you can't tell me every stripper out there is going to feel as positive about the strippers you work with.

Every dancer I've ever known has LOVED their job Tenta. They make more money in a night than I do in a week, without putting in even 1/10th of the amount of work. What's not to love?

Depends on the individual we are talking about? I guess I'm a bit naïve to feel that everyone views I see as the "intimate" body parts in the same way. But I feel there are certain parts of the body that are far more intimate than others.

...Because a strip club isn't about "companionship", in any way. At all. You're thinking of prostitutes.

Same connotation, though. A person's getting paid to satisfy someone's needs. Doesn't it sound similar?

I REALLY do not get where you're getting this idea that stripping causes low self esteem or something. It's in fact the exact opposite. Men are willing to give you their hard earned money just to see your body. That's a pretty big compliment to a woman's looks, is it not? If anything stripping BOOSTS self-esteem Tenta.

Again, I feel it's a feeling of interpreatation. It all depends on the individuals mindset. Some may feel complimented... Some might feel that they wish they weren't doing it.

If she felt degraded, than why the hell would she be doing it? No one is forcing these women to strip, they choose to. I don't have any sympathy for someone feeling degraded for doing something voluntarily. If you don't like the way it makes you feel, don't do it. Simple as that.

Sometimes, you can't quit. You need that money. Othertimes, there are extenuating circumstances to the job. I'm not saying every stripper would leave, but the money is there, and again, the question would beg as to why people seem so addicted to strip clubs?

The "soul" is nothing more than a silly theory that humans have invented for themselves. They don't exist. Consciousness and "souls" are very different things keep in mind.

I would agree with the idea of soul and conscioussness being the same, however, it still begs to be asked, at what point, does it hit you what's going on? And at what sense would one feel guilt?

Damn right they are. They're the ones who these men are worshipping and throwing money at for simply standing infront of them without a shirt on. That's some serious fuckin' power if you ask me.

And they do it for that person's money. Without that money, they're returned to next to nothing.

Never heard of free strippers. Where might I find these? Seriously though, strippers do receive a paycheck. They don't work strictly for tips or something.

But the tips are where they make a majority of their money. Without those tips, a paycheck is 30000 to 50000. I'd say that, withing any other job, someone could earn that if they saved.

Again Tenta, these women are there voluntarily. If they don't like being "exploited" they don't have to take the job do they?

Again, admittedly, because a better job isn't out there. I'm not sure why everyone drops out of school... But I can only assume someone with a degree wouldn't be caught dead up there. Just an opinion

Not at all man. I'm very passionate when I debate and I may completely disagree with you, but I fully respect you.

As I respect you. I'm not sure if you'll be able to read this, but with as much as we agree, I somewhat like when we disagree more, because that's when ever more of your knowledge comes out. Call me a glutton for punishment

I really don't get where you're getting at with this. Say I worked at a Burger King, and someone came up and offered me a multi-million dollar job as a sports announcer. Would I take it? Shit yes I would. Does that mean we should close down all the Burger Kings in the world?

No, but if that were the case with every one working a BK, wouldn't they leave? Yes, the money is great, and as I've admitted, this goes upon the idea on common human nature, at this point in society, that we somewhat dislike being disrobed in public.

...But you've already admitted you've never met a stripper. So how would you know that Tenta? On the contrary, all of the dancers I've met LOVE their job. They LOVE dancing.

But that surely can't be everyone, can it X?

I'm not portraying it as some wonderful family-friendly job Tenta. It's easy, and you get paid a shit load of cash for it. That's not my opinion, that's the truth.

I don't see, without the tips, that being a high payng job. As compared to if they had stayed in school, and decided to just make more of themselves. That's just me.

That's fine if it ruins that sense of intimacy for you Tenta, no one's trying to change your mind on that. But your opinion is just that---an opinion. You can't take your personal morality as a reason to shut down a multil-billion dollar industry. If you could, don't you think mothers all across America would have had video games banned years ago?

They've tried on multiple occasions, haven't they? What about good old Joe Lieberman?

What negatives? That the woman's feelings might be hurt? That outweighs making hundreds of dollars a night for a few rudimentary dances? I'm pretty sure most people would agree that they'd gladly have their feelings hurt in exchange for a few hundred dollars. I sure would.

Admittedly, I would probably, as well. But then again, you can't tell me all strippers like it that much

But again Tenta, you have to remember. This is voluntary. If the negatives outweigh the positives for a woman, she doesn't have to work there. Should that mean that everyone who does enjoy their job shouldn't be allowed to do it anymore? You don't rule the majority by the minority opinion.

It's like you said... The money outweighs it. And without Strip Clubs, who knows? Maybe she could place more of an emphasis on another job, perhaps stay withing education?

That's perfectly fine if you don't see the value in it Tenta. That's why you have the choice of never having to go to a Strip Club if you don't want to. But just because you don't approve of it, that doesn't mean you get to force your morals on everyone else and have strip clubs shut down or made illegal or something. If you don't approve of them, than don't go to them. Simple logic mate.

Logical? To some extent, yes. But again, and it needs to be asked, does stripping do more to harm women, and the image of women, than it does help women? Admittedly, I wouldn't think about that if I wasn't in a Feminism Course right now. But what sort of stereotype does it place on the gender?

That's right... The stereotype that they are pieces of property. And what good does that do?

 

[Cena's Little Helper]

We have strip clubs in America for two reasons:

1) As klunderbunker already said, we are sexual creatures. But, in America, we are sexual creatures with guilty consciences (this more than likely has to do with our country's Puritanical history and how important religion is here to many as a moral compass). I'd hazard to guess that a significant portion of strip club patrons are middle-aged, married men who strive to remain faithful to their wives (that is, remain faithful to them per se). So, in this context, strip clubs serve as a morally acceptable means to satisfy one's sexual desires.

2) Because some women suck and have deluded themselves into thinking that there's a fine line between stripping and prostitution. This is the only explanation I can come up with for the existence of strip clubs in Nevada, where prostitution is legalized.

 

[X]

I'm not saying they aren't normal. What I am saying is that I feel that there's more to life than just taking off clothes. I don't understand what brings them to it, other than things that are of this matereal world? Without the money, is the job nearly that glamorous?

Hey I'm not trying to sell the position as some glamorous thing. I've been to some seedy places and it's the exact opposite of "glamour", similar to the club you described going to before.

But it's just a job at the end of the day Tent. Every job requires that you perform a certain task in exchange for money. Well the certain task that strippers do is take off their clothes while dancing. Any emotional toll that may have on them (feeling "degraded" or something along those lines) is simply something they sacrifice in exchange for their paycheck. I'm sure there are parts of our jobs that we all hate, but at the end of the day having that job is a privilege, not a right.

Well, sure, that is the case for their physical selves, but how about for their mentality? How would they feel about their child knowing their doing these things? I just don't get how a stripper can block that out of their mind?

Well most dancers don't have children first of all. It's a young woman's business, not many places for a 35 year old single mom. But like I said, any emotional toll the job may take can easily be ended/averted Tenta. They just quit. Some people can't do certain jobs; a pacifist would make a shitty Marine.

Absolutely, in heartbeat. I'd do whatever I can to better myself in a situation. But I wouldn't do something to comprimise my sense of self, and you can't tell me every stripper out there is going to feel as positive about the strippers you work with.

Again though Tenta, if they don't want to do it, they don't have to! Why are they accepting jobs that compromise their morals to begin with? It's a privilege, their lack of enthusiasm for their work is irrelevant. People don't pay their employees to love their job, they pay them to do it.

Depends on the individual we are talking about? I guess I'm a bit naïve to feel that everyone views I see as the "intimate" body parts in the same way. But I feel there are certain parts of the body that are far more intimate than others.

But again Tenta, not to sound harsh, but your personal moral opinion on nudity is irrelevant. We have the freedom in this country to express ourselves however we may please so long as it abides by the law. If you're against "intimate" body parts than what makes this different from nudity in a movie? Both actresses are shedding their clothes for pay.

Same connotation, though. A person's getting paid to satisfy someone's needs. Doesn't it sound similar?

They don't share the same connotation in the meaning you were using though Tenta. You were equating the needs that are satisfied by strippers to the same needs satisfied by a relationship earlier. They aren't comparable because they're completely different things, no one goes to a strip club to fulfill any romantic notions, they go to have a good time. If stripping is immoral than Casinos better be on your shitlist as well.

Again, I feel it's a feeling of interpreatation. It all depends on the individuals mindset. Some may feel complimented... Some might feel that they wish they weren't doing it.

I'm sure even the ones who wish they weren't doing it surely realize that they are having people throw money at them and go crazy over just seeing them dance. If people threw money at me when they saw me naked, I know I'd be pretty impressed with me self

Sometimes, you can't quit. You need that money. Othertimes, there are extenuating circumstances to the job. I'm not saying every stripper would leave, but the money is there, and again, the question would beg as to why people seem so addicted to strip clubs?

I don't know many people addicted to strip clubs, but I'm sure they exist. I'd much rather have a strip club addict than an alcoholic though. We have to legalize some vices Tenta because sometimes that's the only way to control/curb it. It's true. Alcohol was more popular than ever during the Prohibition.

I would agree with the idea of soul and conscioussness being the same, however, it still begs to be asked, at what point, does it hit you what's going on? And at what sense would one feel guilt?

Again Tenta, you're judging the situation based strictly on your own personal morals. I for one find nothing wrong with it, as I've stated before.

And they do it for that person's money. Without that money, they'e returned to next to nothing.

Yeah, what's your point? Is money not a sign of power? All of human civilization has relied on monetary systems to evaluate success among the species. Money is the most valuable thing on this planet, everything revolves around it. So I'd say the exchange of high amounts of it in return for seeing some taboo body parts is a pretty big sign of men submitting power (i.e. money) to a woman.

But the tips are where they make a majority of their money. Without those tips, a paycheck is 30000 to 50000. I'd say that, withing any other job, someone could earn that if they saved.

It's an easy job. Incredibly easy. It requires no skill whatsoever to take off your clothes. I'm sure they're paid a fair wage, and they always get tips. It's customary, another silly American habit.

Again, admittedly, because a better job isn't out there. I'm not sure why everyone drops out of school... But I can only assume someone with a degree wouldn't be caught dead up there. Just an opinion

Some people just make a few mistakes or have problems that their lives run into. Not sure why you assume ever single dancer is a high school drop out though. Its hard to get a job if you graduate high school without getting into a college, and this is an easy way to make

No, but if that were the case with every one working a BK, wouldn't they leave? Yes, the money is great, and as I've admitted, this goes upon the idea on common human nature, at this point in society, that we somewhat dislike being disrobed in public.

Someone would leave any job for a multi-million dollar one. What I'm not getting is how that discredits the job they're leaving.

I don't see, without the tips, that being a high payng job. As compared to if they had stayed in school, and decided to just make more of themselves. That's just me.

Name me some jobs where you make upwards of a few hundred dollars per day. That's a damn good job I'm sure, but hardly accessible to all of the general public. As I said before, some people aren't cut out for some jobs.

They've tried on multiple occasions, haven't they? What about good old Joe Lieberman?

You've proven my point for me, Joe Liberman is the definition of a soulless piece of shit politician. Only the crazy ones try to fight for something like this, hardcore fundamentalists and whatnot. There's a reason for that.

It's like you said... The money outweighs it. And without Strip Clubs, who knows? Maybe she could place more of an emphasis on another job, perhaps stay withing education?

Why can't someone strip and attend school at the same time Tenta? You have all of this preconceived notions about strippers as being these trashy two dollar meth-head ****es from trailer parks or something. They're capable of working and attending school at the same time, anyone job is.

Logical? To some extent, yes. But again, and it needs to be asked, does stripping do more to harm women, and the image of women, than it does help women? Admittedly, I wouldn't think about that if I wasn't in a Feminism Course right now. But what sort of stereotype does it place on the gender?

Stereotype? Who sees women in general as strippers? I wouldn't guess many. That's like judging the entire male race on male rapists. Doesn't make sense, and anyone who sees the world that way is a pretty sad person mif you ask me.

Oh and for the love of God, feel free to not reply to some of my post. I'm not up for a massive Will-sized debate tonight, let's try not to make it physical labor to respond next time.

 

[FromTheSouth]

Seriously?

When you've put X and I on the same side of a debate, you've really found something.

We have strip clubs because of supply and demand. Women have tits and we like them. It's that simple. You can give me all the reasons to close them down you want. Shit I'll give them to you and tell you why you're wrong.

1. They objectify women.

Bullshit, they put women on a pedestal. We go in, give them money for being pretty, but them drinks for their attention, and then leave without expecting anything in return. Furthermore, the women that dance choose to, so even if they are objectified, they do so by choice, and exercising your free will is a patriotic act.

2. It's perverted to go.

Bullshit. The strip club experience is about so much more than tits and ass. Men go because the women make them feel better about themselves. Men go to hang out with their friends. Strip clubs are a great place to watch sports. There's no girlfriends around asking you why the man in the stripes threw the yellow hankie on the ground. Most of those girls know about the game that's on. Guys like that. Beer is free flowing, the music is good, the chairs are comfortable. There are lovely distractions for TV time outs.

3. They are havens of prostitution.

Well, first of all, so? I don't even know why prostitution is illegal. Secondly, no, they aren't. I've known lots of strippers. Some of my best friends were strippers. None of them took money for sex. As a matter of fact, I know more Hooters girls who have taken money for sex than I do strippers. Not that it doesn't happen, but the generalizations made about these women are disgusting. Talk about a propaganda machine.

4. These women are going nowhere.

I would bet that most of the girls in these clubs are either making money to go to college or trying to make enough to get out and retire. Strippers can retire at 25. They make thousands of dollars a week to dance (which girls do anyway), dance naked (which girls do anyway, just this time it is out of the privacy of their bedroom), get told they're pretty, and give attention to men. If someone wanted to pay to see me naked and didn't expect to penetrate me, I would do it in a heartbeat. It is easy money.

5. The girls have no morals.

Bullshit. God gave them beautiful bodies. They are giving glory to God by showing off their gifts. If God made me smart as hell, I would think it glorified him to show off my intelligence. The stigma attached to nudity and the body in this country is an extension of the Puritans who founded this country. The human body is a beautiful thing (not mine, per se, but others ). There are instances in which a little modesty is desirable, but amongst adults, who are all consenting to the nudity, it is a glorious and beautiful thing. I have to question men who do not want to be surrounded by beautiful women.

6. The girls are all drug addicts.

One, you can find drug addicts in any line of work. Two, this thought is more propaganda. Most strippers are clean, or at the very least, no more of a druggie than everyone else their age. They are college age kids, and college age kids experiment sometimes.

It is easy to take the opinion that these are seedy places with heroin addicts dancing for their next fix. Those places do exist, but for the most part, strip clubs are nice establishment, and I would bet dollars to donuts that the girls that work there would say that they feel safer in a strip club than they do in a regular club. The security at a strip club is always visible and copious. Managers walk around and ensure that no lines of decency are being crossed.

So many assumptions are made about strip clubs and strippers. The people who talk bad about strippers are the sexists who objectify women. They are the ones who pigeonhole them into social roles, no matter the circumstances. Patrons feel a bond to the girls. The girls provide a service to grateful men who give money to grateful women. The moral crusaders are the ones who make these places into brothels, when in fact they are nice bars with pretty girls.

That being said, I haven't been to a strip club in a while. I question myself when I go, in that I wonder why I am paying to see girls naked. But that's not to say I will never go again. Where else would you want to go for a bachelor party? Talking your girlfriend into going to strip club is an amazing experience. I have had great fun in strip clubs. I love women, I love naked women, and there is nowhere better to show my appreciation than a strip club.

 

[Razor]

Strips clubs are there because men like boobies and naked chicks. It's why the porn industry is here. Men like to see boobs, and there's a place they can go seem them while eating shitty hot wings and drinking beer with their friends. Some men simply don't want relationships, they just want boobies.

As far as the whole "conscience" part of the strip clubs...these women are doing it voluntarily. Just as with Porn. Porn allows the women incredible control over who they have sex with, what they do, and when they do it. Strip clubs are basically a bar where a man hires the women to dance for you, and he probably makes all of his money from the beer, the food, and he might get a slight cut from the tips. Might. These women are not being gravely mistreated. They are being glorified because we wanna see their boobs, and if they didn't wanna show them to us they wouldn't have to.

And yes, some women are there because they are trying to pay their way through college, or night school, or because it's the best job they could get. But to say we shouldn't allow it because of those reasons is like saying we shouldn't allow people to work at Burger King, because if they had just applied themselves in school they wouldn't have to work there.

Having said all that, I don't go to Strip Clubs. Mainly because the ones near campus have totally nasty ass strippers. And if you go too late, there are crazy drunk dudes hanging out there. The bouncers make sure they don't fuck with the girls...but that still doesn't mean I wanna hazard some drunk pissing on my leg. Fuck that.

 

[Tenta]

..... God damn it, this is what happens when I miss out on a couple hours. Ok, look, for the sake of a long ass argument, I'm just going to say that FTS and X are right on certain things. However, there's two topics I'd like to at least throw out there, and see what people believe of this?

The idea that people place strippers on pedestals.... To some extent, yes. But is it for the right reasons at all?

You see, a long, long time ago, starting about the late 19th Century and such, women began to push for equality as compared to men, and for the ability to be considered on a physical, intellectual, and to some extent, spiritual level. Women began a push to the belief that they could be on the equal level of men, and that they are seen as comparable to men, both at the work place, in relationships, and in any other place in which the genders are consequentially separated. But mainly, the origin of the belief that women should be considered the equal of men, based upon their reasoning abilities, and the right to a claim that all men and women are created equal.

Doesn't the idea of strip clubs seem counterproductive to said movement, and that it negates work by such women as The Grimke sisters, Maria Stewart, Elizabeth Stanton, and other such women? Instead of placing the value of women for being our equal of an intellectual leve, we're placing them as subjective to out own purposes, and in some way shape or form, rendering them as no more than sex slaves. Sure, from a physical standpoint, they're being glorified, but that's been the case between women and men for to thousand years. Women have been the center of praise for men for their looks since the beginning of civilization. However, we as a society are learning now to take women on a serious level from an intellectual standpoint. Shit, women were only given the right to vote in this country 89 years ago on what will be august 18th. And yet, when we see these women, doesn't it do a bit of damage to the belief that women are the intellectual equivalency of men?

Second, is the type of belief we want to place into our societies mind? That you can drop out of school, as long as you're attractive, and everything's going to be fine? That you'll make more money than a regular stiff like you and I, working nine to five? You see, I don't see the equality in such a thing. I have to bust my ass through school, yet someone can dance their way through life, and still may be relatively better off than I will? No, sorry, to me that's bullshit. Women to this day are still trying to break the glass ceiling encountered in the business world. And you mean to tell me a woman can make it far better off... By looking attractive? What kind of society is that?

Yes, I know this will get a few angry responses, which I love, actually. I love to start a debate. Just know it'll take me a while to get back to you. As it stands, I have a JTMFTG Induction to make

 

[FromTheSouth]

On your first thought, I would say that women have become tired of the movement, in that it asks more from them, and some women don't want to participate because they WANT to be moms, or they want men to buy things for them. Women have figured out they can use their sexuality for their gain. It is the women's fault if the movement fails, and if they want it to, then cool. I think there is a large portion of women that feel that the opportunities provided for them are plentiful, and they're exercising the next phase of the movement. Choice. They can do whatever they want. It's only man's or the club's fault because we are stupid enough to oblige them. Fuck it though, they get what they want, we get what we want, and everyone's a happy adult.

Secondly, I don't know what's wrong putting sexual ideas in society's mind. At least, adult society's mind. X will agree with me here, we could always be too busy fucking to be fighting, and that's good. Besides strippers know there is a glass ceiling, they just choose to take the stairs, and go around it. Some of these girls make thousands of dollars a night. Is it not counterproductive to tell them not to make this money. They aren't breaking the law.

Besides, how much tax revenue does the purchase of pleather boots and g-strings add to the yearly tills?

 

[Tenta]

To some extent, perhaps women are tired of said movement, but I simply can't believe in the idea that they'd allow for said situation to occur. Sure, they can manipulate men via sex, but what's the point in manipluating multiple men for said result, when you can manipulate one, and probably get a far more long term goal out of the situation? Sure, it's a choice by the individual, but to some extent, the society of women is being screwed over in the process. Shouldn't it matter one bit that by being involved in this matter, that they might be playing right into the stereotypes of what certain men believe of them? Sure, they may be manipulating men, and using their judgments to otherwise seduce these men, yet at the same time, they're being judged themselves, and in said judgement, they reduce women to the mere role of a stereotype. And any time an entire gender is placed in the role of a stereotype, how does that cause the betterment of society, which in theory, we should all be working to?

Secondly, I don't think it's that they're smart enough to realize the glass celing is there, so much as they didn't even want to make the attempt in the first place. They didn't even want to try to make something better of themselves. And again, what the fuck is that supposed to say... Cheat the system if you can, but only if you're fucking pretty enough?

Sorry, still doesn't jive with me. Now then, I promise i'll be back later to deal with anyone's response. I've really got to finish up this induction... Keep the arguments there for me.

 

[Loveless]

Why Do We Have Strip Clubs?

Women need money and men like women, it really is that simple.

First of all, they're extremely degrading to the dancers, and women in particular. They portray women in a less than flattering light, and lead for seedy, rather dubious men to ogle at these women, placing them on display as if she were in a Zoo or something.

I would say they're far more degrading to men. Handing over loads of money, just so you can look at a naked woman? Come on, I thought we were better than this. I've never been to a club and never will because I'd feel like a total idiot.

Instead of goig to Night School, many women (and men. I'm aware that it works both ways.) take the alternate route of taking jobs in these dirty and lewd places, probably to support their children, or even other members of the family. It's a way to make money, which seems to be an issue with strippers.

Well you've just hit the nail on the head, they don't go to nightschool because it doesn't pay, instead it costs them money. If you knew how much a decent stripper earns in a week you'd consider it too. Hell even I'd consider it.

Meanwhile, you have customers that degrade these men and women to the status of animals, staring at them as if they were pieces of meat. You then have them throwing themselves at them, throwing money and what have you just for some attention, and to see just a bit of that women's giblets.

Well yeah I've already given my thoughts on that. I think in part it's people wanting to get back to human nature. Human nature is so supressed, in particular in white males that I can understand wanting to go to a place where you can act like a horny dick for a couple of hours.

Plus,not only that, but I fail to see what type of help they provide to society, and what they do to better society. What about a strip club is good, per se? I know why it's appealing, but what is so good about how people find it appealing?

It's giving well paid jobs to people who otherwise wouldn't be employed, or would have to take a 9-5 job and miss out on their kids growing up. A hundred years ago these strippers would have turned to prostitution instead, I don't think that's preferable.

For the strippers, there has to be better places to work. And even if there is no work place, there's always the chance to go to Night School. For the people that frequent strip clubs, there's always the ability to get a fucking girlfriend/boyfriend!

Night school again? Some people need money now, some people aren't suitable for education. I have a kind of admiration for strippers, they put up with a lot of shit. Frankly if you've got the goods and you're smart enough to be able to exploit some morons, I say go for it. Everyone's got to make a living somehow.
I don't think getting partner would make much difference really. You can never get tired of boobs and some people will always be stupid enough to pay for it.

What's that? Don't have a significant other? There's always speedates, blind dates, I really don't care what you call it. There's always a way to find "love" in better, less seedy places.

I don't think it's about finding love at all, infact I'm certain that's exactly what it's not about. I think men go to strip clubs so they don't have to put up with the crap women put us through. Again, going back to the prostitution thing, it's just like casual sex. Fun, costly, hassle-free. Not everyone is looking for a relationship, doesn't mean they don't like sex.

So again.... Strip Clubs... What is so good about these places? Why in the fuck do we have these?

Employment for the less capable, feeding families, entertainment for men, everyone wins.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Admittedly, I've never met a stripper, Xfear. I'm not sure if you have either, but if indeed you have, I'd like to ask two questions;

1. Did that person have a high sense of self-esteem, and a good personal view of themself?
2. Would they still be stripping if there was a better option out there.

A very good friend of mine was a stripper for a brief period. She certainly does have a high self-esteem and is also a highly intelligent, confident, fun loving person and on top of all that, she's hot as hell.

Secondly she started pole dancing because she enjoys it. She never needed the money, because her family are very well off, and since she is an only child, SHE is very well off as well. She then decided to take up stripping as well, but felt uncomfortable with the advances of the customers.

tbh i don't really see the point in strip clubs from the male side of it, because there's perfectly good porn online. I'm not really interested in a girating naked girl unless we're going to get it on, but i can understand that it is indeed a good thing for young women who may be down on their luck, supporting children alone etc, or wanting extra income for the future, and if they're uber stupid and aren't attractive enough for modelling etc, then what else are they going to do to survive?

Why do we need strip clubs? So there's another option for women to make money on their own, and so guys can take the edge off and silence that perverted voice inside their heads.

Why do we need hunting? Because some people just like to kill things.

At the end of the day, all of the things that the media frown upon, and society criticize, are basic carnal desires of the human condition. Some of us do at least one thing that others would find disturbing and sickening, because at the basic level, people are disturbed and sickening. We are still animals, we're just the first animals to pave over most of the planet and dominating everything the Earth has to offer.

 

[Tenta]

At the end of the day, all of the things that the media frown upon, and society criticize, are basic carnal desires of the human condition. Some of us do at least one thing that others would find disturbing and sickening, because at the basic level, people are disturbed and sickening. We are still animals, we're just the first animals to pave over most of the planet and dominating everything the Earth has to offer.

Which believe me, I get that, to some extent. I heavily underline “to some extent” for a reason. That, yes, human at its rawest form, and in its origins, are indeed a rather carnal beast, and we had a tendency to reach out to our most instinctive nature. There’s just one problem I have with this theory; We’ve evolved. We, as man and woman, have made the steps to place social norms into place, because we realized that doing so prolongs the civilization of man, and continues our evolution from raging beats to sophisticated individuals.

Yet, we throw all of that out of the window by the first piece of poon we see waving in our face? Sorry, still don’t believe that idea, in that we forget all of our raisings, and all of the social norms in which we have either accepted, or begrudgingly acknowledge. Whether you like it or not, social norms still kick in, and even though you’d like to think we can merely turn off that piece of our brain, those social norms are still heavily lodged in there. Thus, I cannot completely go with the idea that our social norms and values, even if we dislike them, can be completely discarded the minute we step into a strip joint. And unless you can prove that we turn off that portion of the brain, I can’t completely buy that argument, folks.

 

[HBK-aholic]

I really don't see the problem with strip clubs. It's usually women who complain about them, which annoys me, because there usual argument is "It objectifies women". So? If they want to be looked at, it's their choice. Why is being known for your looks worse than being known for your brain? And who are you to stop them? Most of these women talk about how women should have rights etc. then say well they shouldn't be allowed to be a stripper. It's their life, and their choice. That's all there is too it.

I don't think strip clubs are needed, if there weren't people would surely find their breasts fix another way. But I see no reason for us to not have them. So I'll probably never go in one, if people like them and the women aren't being forced to show their body it's fine.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Which believe me, I get that, to some extent. I heavily underline “to some extent” for a reason. That, yes, human at its rawest form, and in its origins, are indeed a rather carnal beast, and we had a tendency to reach out to our most instinctive nature. There’s just one problem I have with this theory; We’ve evolved. We, as man and woman, have made the steps to place social norms into place, because we realized that doing so prolongs the civilization of man, and continues our evolution from raging beats to sophisticated individuals.

Yet, we throw all of that out of the window by the first piece of poon we see waving in our face? Sorry, still don’t believe that idea, in that we forget all of our raisings, and all of the social norms in which we have either accepted, or begrudgingly acknowledge. Whether you like it or not, social norms still kick in, and even though you’d like to think we can merely turn off that piece of our brain, those social norms are still heavily lodged in there. Thus, I cannot completely go with the idea that our social norms and values, even if we dislike them, can be completely discarded the minute we step into a strip joint. And unless you can prove that we turn off that portion of the brain, I can’t completely buy that argument, folks.

It's got nothig to do with having an off switch in your brain. Following social norms is a CHOICE dude. There's no part of your brain that FORCES you to wear clothes, say please or thank you, indicate when you turn off a road, or practice safe sex. You CHOOSE to do whether to do them or not.

Social norms are imposed upon you through your childhood, and then later when you grow up they are imposed by the government. People are brought up to have manners and respect for their fellow man, but as time goes on, people tend to get ruder and ruder and more belligerent as they get older.

And don't talk to me about evolution. After 2000 years we're still killing each other over pathetic issues where no one is right, racial prejudice is STILL rampant in a lot of places, and our worth in life is STILL based on what you own and what's in your bank account. Our technology may have evolved, but we as creatures haven't really evolved at all. The only thing we're evolving into is lazier people, because we'd rather build a quick and easy machine that does it for us instead of cooking it. Perfect example, the microwave.

 

[ztwhite]

I'm not sure if this has been said, simply because most of the posts are incredibly long and I don't have the patience to read them all.

Frankly, the reason we have strip clubs is because people go to them. It's really a simple answer. It's all about the notion of supply and demand. If someone supplies something (in this case - tits and ass) and someone else wants it (in this case - men & women), it will flourish.

And don't kid yourselves into thinking it's only men who go to strip clubs. Yes, I have visited quite a few in my time, here in the states and in Canada, and there are numerous women in the clubs not taking off their clothes and accepting dollar bills.

I actually have a great story about a strip club. Back in 1998, I went to see Jenna Jameson at a club here in Ohio. In all honesty, I had no idea who she was, but knew she was smokin' hot due to the advertisements in my college dorm.

Anywho... during her routine, she placed a shot glass between her legs and the men and women had to bounce quarters into the glass with the first to accomplish the feat receiving a prize. As luck would have it, and it was pure luck mind you, I hit the shot glass first.

The prize was something I never expected. Ms. Jameson took an Oreo cookie and covered half of it in whip cream and placed the other half in her most private of areas. I was then invited to remove the cookie with my kisser.

What a night !!!

 

[LigerBomb]

Didn't read the previous posts, apologies if this is redundant.

Why Do We Have Strip Clubs?

Simply put:
Biology (Perpetuation & Protection/Self Preservation) and Capitalism.

Biologically the majority of men are programed to want to have sex with (beautiful) women; endocrinology and sex hormones aside, part of that "vicious cycle" of desire is due to seeing a pleasing female form as men are more visual by nature. Therefore men enjoy, and will actively seek out the chance to see pretty women --especially of the disrobed persuasion-- whenever they can. Once they do they want to continue to do so and some are more than willing to hand over their money to do it.

Woman (and men) know the above fact so they've devised a rather simple way to provide such visual services for a price thereby aiding themselves economically. Basic economics and the concepts of supply and demand will tell you why strippers make large sums of money. As not every stripper is a Mensa candidate who can make comparable sums of money in other professions --especially for the same amount of time invested and with a lacking skill set-- this line of work is a relatively easy path to financial freedom, and economic stability/safety. And at the end of the day all we want to do is protect ourselves and our loved ones --the second biological imperative in this equation-- which in a capitalist society is best achieved with high sums of money.