Why do people insist Cena buries talent?

[rge2010]

I am by no means a Cena mark, I respect the man and don't dislike the character, I think he is good for WWE and WWE needs him. He puts on some very good matches from time to time and his mic skills are very good and up there with the best on the roster. He is a entertainer.

It frustrates me when people say Cena buries talent. All because he wins his fair share of matches on Raw/Smackdown, but when you delve deeper, his PPV record over the last few years is NOT THAT GOOD! It is nowhere near as good as the PPV records of Hogan, Austin and Rock when they were 'the top dog'. People hate him and that is fine but they really need to look at the stats before making such ignorant and uneducated comments!

Below I have looked at the last 3 years. No point looking before that because it is history now and Cena has evolved and so has the wrestling landscape since then. 2010 people will argue he buried The Nexus, but this was a poor year for Wrestling - no Rock, no Lesnar, HBK retired, Triple H was part time, CM Punk was only midcard and Daniel Bryan was on NXT and then fired. There was absolutely nobody to challenge Cenas throne.

2011
Royal Rumble - LOST
Elimination Chamber - WON
Wrestlemania 27 - LOST
Extreme Rules - WON (c)
Over The Limit - WON (c)
Capital Punishment - WON (c)
Money In The Bank - LOST
Summerslam - LOST
Night Of Champions - WON (c)
Hell In A Cell - LOST
Vengeance - LOST
Survivor Series - WON
TLC - N/A

Win rate = 50% of PPV matches
Put Over - The Miz, CM Punk and Alberto Del Rio.

2012
Royal Rumble - DREW
Elimination Chamber - WON
Wrestlemania 28 - LOST
Extreme Rules - WON
Over The Limit - LOST
No Way Out - WON
Money In The Bank - WON
Summerslam - LOST
Night Of Champions - DREW
Hell In A Cell - N/A
Survivor Series - LOST
TLC - LOST

Win rate = 33% of PPV matches
Put Over - The Rock, John Laurinaitis, CM Punk and Dolph Ziggler.


2013
Royal Rumble - WON
Elimination Chamber - LOST
Wrestlemania 29 - WON (c)
Extreme Rules - DREW
Payback - WON (c)
Money In The Bank - WON (c)
Summerslam - LOST
Night Of Champions - N/A
Battleground - N/A
Hell In A Cell - WON (c)
Survivor Series - WON (c)
TLC - LOST

Win rate = 60% of PPV matches
Put Over - The Shield, Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton.

There is no doubt that Cena had a decent 2013 but is that where the anger comes from? Was Vince correct in saying Wrestling fans have such short memories?!

Cena did wonders for The Miz and CM Punk in 2011 by putting him over twice. He again put Punk over in 2012 and also lost a high profile match to Dolph Ziggler, not forgetting a big one against The Rock. And last year he put over Daniel Bryan in a massive main event at Summerslam and then Randy Orton at the end and beginning of 2014.

So who has he buried the last few years? We can argue all day about his wins and losses on Raw but it is PPV matches that really matter and those are the matches that people remember. He has scored wins over midcarders like R-Truth, Mark Henry, Big Show and Alberto Del Rio! The same people saying he buried them are probably the same ones saying Show should just retire and Del Rio can't get over! Did Cena bury The Rock at Mania 29?! Did he bury Ryback at the PPV's after this or was he already buried?

Over to you.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

Meh, there are any number of reasons. Some make the claim because the simply don't like Cena and their dislike rises to such a degree that they say that he buries guys or holds them down. Often times, they'll make the claim without doing any real research to back it up or to simply shoot their mouths off. Some of them are also pissed because, perhaps, a wrestler they personally enjoyed more than Cena wasn't pushed to his level. Because of that and because their guy was so much better than Cena, at least in their eyes, they're resentful towards Cena and feel he doesn't deserve to be where he is

Some will make similar claims out of a sense of frustration at wanting to see someone else elevated and/or because they're just flat out bored with Cena as the top dog. This is much easier for me to identify with personally because Cena's character can get pretty damn stale sometimes. I understand that WWE has a winning formula with Cena, therefore they're unlikely to change it unless they feel it's absolutely necessary. It obviously hasn't been necessary because of the countless millions in revenue the John Cena brand has brought to the company over the course of the past 9 years. As a result, Cena's alleged unpopularity just doesn't stand up to the tests. If he was genuinely disliked as much as some Cena haters, trolls, smarks or whoever else claimed, he wouldn't have had the spot he's enjoyed for so long. His segments on Raw are big draws, he sells a lot of merchandise and he's helped sell a lot of ppvs; which means that even people who claim to "hate" Cena are still interested in what he's doing. As long as fans are invested, then nothing else really matters because fan interest = money.

However, just because it makes WWE a lot of money doesn't mean that people who think Cena is incredibly stale are automatically wrong. In pro wrestling, quality is often highly subjective in all different aspects of the product. WWE can't please everybody, so they do what they think will please enough of the majority to keep them tuning in and spending their money.

 

[MCMG]

People don't like Cena + they don't understand the concept of being "buried". Just because you lose doesn't mean you have been buried and people don't understand that.

Cena has done wonders for a lot of superstars. Simply being John Cena has given many superstars momentum. Edge was a solid heel; cashes in MITB on John Cena and it elevates him. Punk, Miz, Sheamus, Ziggler, Bryan, The Shield and, yes, even Bray Wyatt have all benefited from working with Cena. He also absolutely made Punk. CM Punk is a talented guy but for his "pipebomb" to work he had to be feuding with Cena and beat him clean. Thus, Punk had an incredible WWE career rather than being just another guy.

Hell, look what a 15 minute match with Cesaro a few months ago did for the King of Swing. He make Cesaro look like a top guy because Cena is that good. The stuff with Nexus was a clusterfuck but that could well have been creative. There are probably stories of Cena "burying" talent backstage but once they are in an actual wrestling program there hasn't been any top level guy who has put over as many people as Cena. Fact.

 

[worldchamp101]

He put over the rock? heheh okay. He put over Randy orton? I disagree,Triple H had more of a role in putting Orton over when Orton first broke away from Evolution. The only reason Cena lost to Bryan at Summerslam was because he was injured and they needed to set up the rivalry between Triple H and Daniel Bryan. Also please explain how he really put Miz over when much of the attention was put on him vs Rock? As a matter of fact the Miz didn't even beat him fair and square. He had outside help from the Rock. Lets take a look at poor Zack Ryder, who managed to garner attention through his Youtube shows (I forget what they were called). WHat happens when he becomes buddy buddy with Cena? Oh yeah Cena takes his girlfriend and Ryder gets pushed off a stage.

 

[worldchamp101]

Edge in no way needed that "rub" from Cena. He w/ Christian helped to innovate the TLC match. Who can forget when he speared Jeff Hardy midair. he didn't need Cena's help to get over. Same thing with RVD. From his time in ECW onwards, he managed to gain a fanbase on his own. People knew who he was and they liked him and his style. Just because he beat Cena for the WWE championship doesn't mean that Cena put him over. One poster wrote that losses doesn't mean burial. Wins doesn't mean putting over either.

 

[MMK]

Q: Why do people insist Cena buries talent?

Ask Damien Sandow or Alex Riley.

But in my opinion, Cena buries other talents for the simple fact that the longer one guy stays on top it stifles the development of the rest of the roster. No one progresses. Everyone becomes stagnant, including Cena himself.

It's not about Cena's WIN-LOSS record, it's his LONGEVITY. Let's compare the number of years Cena has been at the top to other faces of the franchise:

FACE OF THE FRANCHISE
Cena: 2004-2014 (10 years and still going)
Hogan:1984-1993 (9 years,then jumped to WCW)
Warrior: 1990 (1 year)
Bret: 93-95 (2 years)
Diesel:1995 (1 year)
Shawn-96-98 (2 years)
Austin-98-00 (2 years)
Rock-99-02 (3 years)
Triple H-00--04 (4 years)

Cena is even ahead of Hogan at this point. And unlike Hogan, there's no WCW for John to jump to so he isn't going anywhere anytime soon. There's only one show in town and as long as one guy holds on to that top spot for as long as Cena has the rest of the roster becomes stagnant with only a few guys being able to occasionally breakthrough for a short period of time. And even when they do, like with CM Punk, Cena is still the guy main eventing PPV's despite not holding the title.

Thankfully it appears as though WWE is FINALLY moving in a different direction with Bryan. Although I don't think it will last long.

 

[AegonTargaryen]

Edge in no way needed that "rub" from Cena. He w/ Christian helped to innovate the TLC match. Who can forget when he speared Jeff Hardy midair. he didn't need Cena's help to get over. Same thing with RVD. From his time in ECW onwards, he managed to gain a fanbase on his own. People knew who he was and they liked him and his style. Just because he beat Cena for the WWE championship doesn't mean that Cena put him over. One poster wrote that losses doesn't mean burial. Wins doesn't mean putting over either.

Absofuckinglutely correct! Just because Cena happened to be the right guy at the wrong time/wrong guy at the right time(depending upon your perception) doesn't mean he "put over" or even "elevated" Rob Van Dam and Edge. IMO, Rob Van Dam and Edge were such seasoned and talented wrestlers in 2006 that it was a gross injustice they never held a world championship until then(for whatsoever political/powers that be reasons). It would not be incorrect to say that Edge and Rob Van Dam were doing more innovative , creative and amazing things at every level(IC title, tag titles) than Cena has done with his entire career put together as early as the early 2000s. Thus, them beating John Cena to earn their righteous spots as champions was not John Cena doing them a favour but exactly the other way around. EDGE elevated John Cena as the crappy, unoriginal, generic and predictable "I'm an American Hero, You want some come get some, The champ is here" champion because he was doubly, triply and quadruply talented in arenas Cena had never known- whether it be the TLC match, a tag team match, or Steel Cage.

I disagree with the one who asserted no top star has put over more people or as many people as John Cena. Aeh Aeh! You couldn't be more wrong. Since the concept of a top star "putting over" depends on subjective factors and is open to endless debate, lets just decide for the purpose of exposition that putting over consists of a combination of a top star "letting the challenger win/losing to him" and "elevating the young guy/challenger irrespective of who wins, by way of having wrestled a great match/having had an amazing feud" . That being said, Randy Orton is the guy who has put more people "over" because not only did he agree to drop belts to them but elevated them by way of a "rub" and the very fact that the feud was decorated and storied. Examples- Cody Rhodes, Wade Barrett, Mark Henry, Christian, among others.

It's also highly debatable that John Cena "put over" the elite list of wrestlers like CM Punk and Edge, simply based on the fact that he agreed to NOT WIN on certain events. This can be proved by the following observations:-

Every time John Cena has "supposedly put over" a guy, that particular guy has either switched brands(Edge), kayfabe been fired/retired temporarily(Chris Jericho, Christian, Batista), or been confronted with endless obscurity for a long time(Wade Barrett in 2010, Miz in 2011, Damien Sandow in 2013). I don't think that's "putting over" . In CM Punk's case, once again, John Cena didn't make CM Punk by bestowing an honour upon Punk by losing the MITB '11 match. CM Punk made CM Punk and actually inspired new life into the-then boring/monotonous/directionless WWE.

A real "putting over" on the other hand, is someone like Randy Orton. In contrast to Edge actually being the one who elevated Cena in 2006/2007, it was Randy Orton who actually elevated Christian and seasoned him as a main-eventer(no matter how transitory) because of what their 2011 feud did to Christian. Again, Randy Orton's 2011/2012 feuds with Wade Barrett and Cody Rhodes did not put them into obscurity but only elevated them. It's clear from these arguments that Randy Orton has put more guys over whether it be by elevating them or by a list of the number of times he "lost" to a guy or "dropped" the world title to a first-time champion.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Here's the thing about longevity... If you dont make money you dont have longevity. Fans posting on here complaining about Cena's "longevity" to me are infuriating. Cena has been the top star for maybe a decade, during which time he has been hands down WWEs top money maker. Hd delivers the best buy rates when he's on top of the card, always draws good quarter hour ratings on TV, and sells merchandise out the wazoo. CM Punk, had some success, including the longest continuous run as champ anyone ever had in the Live Weekly TV-Monthly PPV era, but Cena was bigger. Guys like Orton & Batista did very well but never reached Cena levels, Guys like Taker, Flair, HHH, Hogan, etc, all huge stars, all either retired (after being only semi active for years), or became occasional part timers making cursory contributions to a handfull of events, all the while Cena was more popular and selling merch at levels no full timer could match.

Those who dont like Cena are a random minority of wrestling fans judging from his T-shirt and Poster sales. Lets not forget that wrestling is a ticket driven business, and guys who can deliver ticket & merch sales are the lifeblood of the industry. Cena, unlike some top stars of the past, has been willing to work with anyone in virtually every type of match possible, and consistently delivers quality matches, win or lose.

As for the poster who complained about those who Cena has put over, CM Punk was made by Cena and their fued, the same may Randy Savage was made by his runs vs Hulk Hogan circa 86 & 89 and the same way Sting & Lex Luger were made by Ric Flair in their runs circa 88-91. Edge was a mid card gimmick wrestler, known mainly for his tag team work, the guy who works TLC matches, until his feud vs Cena, he reached a whole new level of star status and credibility. Putting over Randy Orton at WrestleMania was no small feat either, Orton was doing well at that point with his stints as "The Legend Killer" and half of Rated R-K-O but beating a star like Cena was a huge accomplishment.

Also, Cena doesnt have the Creative Control that Hogan or Brett Hart had, he doesnt get to pick his fueds and match finishes. He also by all accounts has never blatantly refused to work with someone like HBK did in the 90s, even when booked to lose, something Austin did as well.

So Cena sells tickets & product better and more consistently than any other full time performer, deliver quality matches on all the big shows regardless of opponent, and puts over anyone he is asked to, even when it is a semi retired movie actor (Rock) or an up and coming performer on the rise who could potentially take his spot (Punk, Edge). He is actually the best type of Top Star, A company first guy.

 

[rge2010]

I think someone people need to stop and have a good think about the following...

'Putting someone over' and 'getting someone over' are completely different fucking things. But the IWC nerds who hate Cena for being Cena will always try to pick holes in certain comments to further their agenda.

Cena put Rock over at Wrestlemania 28 and that is a fact. Did he get Rock over? No. Absolutely not.

 

[Un-Bo-Lievable Jeff]

I am by no means a Cena mark, I respect the man and don't dislike the character, I think he is good for WWE and WWE needs him. He puts on some very good matches from time to time and his mic skills are very good and up there with the best on the roster. He is a entertainer.

It frustrates me when people say Cena buries talent. All because he wins his fair share of matches on Raw/Smackdown, but when you delve deeper, his PPV record over the last few years is NOT THAT GOOD! It is nowhere near as good as the PPV records of Hogan, Austin and Rock when they were 'the top dog'. People hate him and that is fine but they really need to look at the stats before making such ignorant and uneducated comments!

Below I have looked at the last 3 years. No point looking before that because it is history now and Cena has evolved and so has the wrestling landscape since then. 2010 people will argue he buried The Nexus, but this was a poor year for Wrestling - no Rock, no Lesnar, HBK retired, Triple H was part time, CM Punk was only midcard and Daniel Bryan was on NXT and then fired. There was absolutely nobody to challenge Cenas throne.

2011
Royal Rumble - LOST
Elimination Chamber - WON
Wrestlemania 27 - LOST
Extreme Rules - WON (c)
Over The Limit - WON (c)
Capital Punishment - WON (c)
Money In The Bank - LOST
Summerslam - LOST
Night Of Champions - WON (c)
Hell In A Cell - LOST
Vengeance - LOST
Survivor Series - WON
TLC - N/A

Win rate = 50% of PPV matches
Put Over - The Miz, CM Punk and Alberto Del Rio.

2012
Royal Rumble - DREW
Elimination Chamber - WON
Wrestlemania 28 - LOST
Extreme Rules - WON
Over The Limit - LOST
No Way Out - WON
Money In The Bank - WON
Summerslam - LOST
Night Of Champions - DREW
Hell In A Cell - N/A
Survivor Series - LOST
TLC - LOST

Win rate = 33% of PPV matches
Put Over - The Rock, John Laurinaitis, CM Punk and Dolph Ziggler.


2013
Royal Rumble - WON
Elimination Chamber - LOST
Wrestlemania 29 - WON (c)
Extreme Rules - DREW
Payback - WON (c)
Money In The Bank - WON (c)
Summerslam - LOST
Night Of Champions - N/A
Battleground - N/A
Hell In A Cell - WON (c)
Survivor Series - WON (c)
TLC - LOST

Win rate = 60% of PPV matches
Put Over - The Shield, Daniel Bryan and Randy Orton.

There is no doubt that Cena had a decent 2013 but is that where the anger comes from? Was Vince correct in saying Wrestling fans have such short memories?!

Cena did wonders for The Miz and CM Punk in 2011 by putting him over twice. He again put Punk over in 2012 and also lost a high profile match to Dolph Ziggler, not forgetting a big one against The Rock. And last year he put over Daniel Bryan in a massive main event at Summerslam and then Randy Orton at the end and beginning of 2014.

So who has he buried the last few years? We can argue all day about his wins and losses on Raw but it is PPV matches that really matter and those are the matches that people remember. He has scored wins over midcarders like R-Truth, Mark Henry, Big Show and Alberto Del Rio! The same people saying he buried them are probably the same ones saying Show should just retire and Del Rio can't get over! Did Cena bury The Rock at Mania 29?! Did he bury Ryback at the PPV's after this or was he already buried?

Over to you.

Assuming Cena's PPV matches would have been rematches in some cases (Ala against the Rock) how many times does he come out winning the feud? Pretty easy to lose at Payback if he ends up winning the feud at Summerslam. That one win is worth more than the loss, so simply having basic stats doesn't even come close to backing up your point.

Cena could lose 3 in a row to someone because of shenanigans. Doesn't mean he put someone over.

You really need to think about every angle before going into this kind of argument as the IWC will tear you down, and not simply because they hate Cena, but because you have not looked at everything.

 

[Torgo]

Damien Sandow says hello. Ditto A-Ry. Umaga as well.

I will say that there is a reason that Cena keeps winning. I believe that Cena keeps winning because he has been built up as The Man for so long, it would hurt the buisness if the top guy lost. I am not sure if it is Cena's choice to win or not, but even if its not we all are a little sick of it.








ps....are you posting in a wrestling forum? guess what...you are a part of the IWC. we are all a part of it, and it is a part of us.

 

[L@RISANO]

Since I restarted watching around SummerSlam 2013;

He beat Del Rio who was on the way down and very stale in any case for the WHC. Thus that win was due to Cena returning, and the fact that not many fans cared about Del Rio in any case.

Then he beat Damien Sandow who was Mr.MitB...
Now, we all know that Sandow had a great match vs Cena, but he ended up losing. Now, he is portrayed as a jobber mostly with less segments.
However, one benefit of giving Sandow the MitB(even though he lost), was to elevate him as a possible guy in the Upper MidCard if required and showcase some of his talent to the Audience. He is still getting TV time, which is more than quite a few others can say, and with his prior elevation, it means that WWE can now push him more easily at any point in the future, since fans will have an idea what to expect, even though at present, he might be a joke. Cena didn't bury him,lMO, the booking/creative did.

Orton then got the better of Cena mutiple times, including the Unification match...and I'd say that repeat feud did more for Orton than it did for Cena.

Now, the feud with the Wyatts is going on, it will be interesting what the ER result will be since Bray already has one loss at Mania to Cena. I think with a number of new potential top stars being pushed, now will be a big test to see how Cena is booked going forward...

 

[JoeFromTomsRiver]

ps....are you posting in a wrestling forum? guess what...you are a part of the IWC. we are all a part of it, and it is a part of us.

Amen sir.

But be prepared to be lectured by a member of the IWC about how they actually are NOT a member of the IWC. Because in their mind, it has nothing to do with the fact that they talk about wrestling ON THE INTERNET, it has to do with what wrestlers you like or don't like. Absurdity.

 

[Headman]

lol look at the responses. These people have nothing. When confronted with actual facts and numbers your average Cena hater responds by saying "Edge in no way needed his rub". Yeah, I'm sure Edge continuing to work with the other mid carders instead of the top guy in the company would have elevated him just fine. People are so consumed with their own personal bias that they can't even comprehend reality. And then as far as "burying" goes. Your average wrestling fan doesn't even know what that means. Every loss to a bigger star is a burial in their opinion. I guess Bray Wyatt's career is over since he got "buried" by Cena at Wrestlemania. (Sarcasm). It's hard to be a part of a fandom where the average IQ is lower than the cost of a game of Pac-Man.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Because wrestling fans, especially the ones on the internet can't come to grips with their feelings. They have to explain why they feel the way they do and they want to sound more in touch than they really are. They can't just say "Cena just isn't for me. I like some things he does some times but overall he doesn't make my dick hard. I wish Wrestler X was given his spot."

They search out bullshit excuses that are either untrue or illogical or both. Ignoring what I think "burying" means for this thread, I understand what some posters are trying to say. Cena has been at the top for a long time (8ish years?). This means that technically if you get put in a program with Cena, you can't go any higher and therefore when it is over you are moving down. He also has had some wins that defy logic from a storytelling perspective. A lengthy beat down followed by a quick comeback that may not seem convincing and a win can leave a fan feeling flat. But it happens with lots of guys. Cena is no exception. But this is somewhat the fault of the guy who gets beat for not selling well enough, the booker, the dude who helps plans the details of the match, the promoter, and the fans for expecting too much and having the attention span of a dog surrounded by fire hydrants.

But mostly to answer your question is because wrestling fans are typically stupid.

 

[Pedigree1]

I have no idea why people insist Cena doesn't put people over.. I think it has to do with a number of reasons,people are sick of Cena.. Lets face it,he has been on top for 10 years or so,has brought in countless millions and millions of revenue for the WWE. Being on top for that long,will indeed bring the haters out of the woodwork.. Plus its the cool thing to do,Boo Cena or say Cena sucks..

I would venture to guess,most of the haters or smarks are really Cena fans and dont wanna be picked on for being so.. Naturally they take the opposite route,Boo him so there not found out.. Is his character stale? Perhaps but why fix something that isn't broken..

He has put over countless talent over the years.. ADR,Miz,Daniel Bryan,Punk,Edge. Hell he beat Cesaro and Wyatt,but in defeat Wyatt and Cesaro were elevated into superstardom. Cena is a loyal employee,and gives more than he takes. Will continue to do so

 

[closet_fan]

I think Cena is the opposite. He doesn't want to bury people, but rather others to start taking some of the load off of him so he doesn't have to be asked to constantly carry the company. And it's happening. For the first time in a long time, Cena doesn't need to be in the spotlight. You have Bryan, Evolution, SHIELD.

Cena is very committed to his craft and pushes himself to be the best. He thinks others should be the same way. If you listen to his Austin interview, he wants guys to be elevated.

I bet Cena is loving to work with Bray. He's finally showing a different side of his character he hasn't been able to, in I think, ever.

Now we just have to see if the old "Cena overcomes the odds and beats Bray" at ER. It'd be best if John lost, IMO.

 

[coronerjackal91]

Cena has put plenty of talent over, but he has buried talent as well. Being the face of the company, whether they'll admit it on screen or not, Cena has to be kept in a position where his matches are seen by many people. Are there other superstars more deserving? Certainly! Do they draw as much green as John? Nope. Cena has put over Edge, RVD, Bryan, Orton, Rock, John Laurenitis, Wyatt, Punk, Shield, Umaga; I'm sure i'm forgetting a few others.

Listen, his gimmick is stale, and he tends to have his opponents do most of the work on free tv, but that doesn't mean he hasn't enhanced talent

 

[hitking100]

How exactly did Cena put over CM Punk ? Punk doesn't hold 1 clean victory over Cena (distraction and foot on the ropes are NOT clean wins)...but guess who did get a clean victory over Punk ? Right before Once In A LifeTime Part Deux.

 

[Headman]

Cena has put plenty of talent over, but he has buried talent as well. Being the face of the company, whether they'll admit it on screen or not, Cena has to be kept in a position where his matches are seen by many people. Are there other superstars more deserving? Certainly! Do they draw as much green as John? Nope. Cena has put over Edge, RVD, Bryan, Orton, Rock, John Laurenitis, Wyatt, Punk, Shield, Umaga; I'm sure i'm forgetting a few others.

Listen, his gimmick is stale, and he tends to have his opponents do most of the work on free tv, but that doesn't mean he hasn't enhanced talent

By "Most of the work" do you mean most of the offense? Like maybe he's letting them showcase their offense on free tv so people can see what they're about? Or maybe basic wrestling theory that a babyface sells, sells, sells then takes their heat back for the hot finish? I'm not seeing the validity of these complaints considering this is how wrestling has always worked until the Attitude era when psychology and theory were for the most part thrown out the window. As for what's stale and what's not that's really up to the individual. But it seems hypocritical of many fans to single out Cena for things that everyone is guilty of and use that as a reason to bash him. If I don't like Jello I'm not going to try and convince everyone on planet Earth that Jello is terrible and no one should eat it? No, that would be a complete waste of my time and energy. And I really don't want to take something away that other people enjoy just because it's not my thing. But that's what Cena's detractors are trying to do.

And beating someone is not burying them. Burying is what happened to John Morrison before he left the WWE. They jobbed him out so bad that he would have little to no value after leaving the company. That's what burying means. Booker T was never buried because the WWE still had plans for him. He was actually elevated by Triple H because WWE fans didn't see him as a main eventer until that point. And John Cena put K-fed over so I don't even wanna hear about him burying people.

 

[coronerjackal91]

Just because he didn't win clean, doesn't mean Punk didn't get elevated. He went from a midcard, b-show gimmick that was seen by many as annoying, to main eventing RR with the Rock, The most recognizably mainstream wrestler in history. What was his claim to fame before Cena? What promos was he known for? You think Cena had no knowledge of the pipebomb before it happened?

 

[Sexcellence of Sexecution]

People don't like Cena + they don't understand the concept of being "buried". Just because you lose doesn't mean you have been buried and people don't understand that.

Cena has done wonders for a lot of superstars. Simply being John Cena has given many superstars momentum. Edge was a solid heel; cashes in MITB on John Cena and it elevates him. Punk, Miz, Sheamus, Ziggler, Bryan, The Shield and, yes, even Bray Wyatt have all benefited from working with Cena. He also absolutely made Punk. CM Punk is a talented guy but for his "pipebomb" to work he had to be feuding with Cena and beat him clean. Thus, Punk had an incredible WWE career rather than being just another guy.

Hell, look what a 15 minute match with Cesaro a few months ago did for the King of Swing. He make Cesaro look like a top guy because Cena is that good. The stuff with Nexus was a clusterfuck but that could well have been creative. There are probably stories of Cena "burying" talent backstage but once they are in an actual wrestling program there hasn't been any top level guy who has put over as many people as Cena. Fact.

This is 100% correct.

If you look at top guys throughout WWE history there's really only a few: Hulk Hogan, Steve Austin, The Rock and John Cena. When you have a star of that magnitude, he needs to be protected. You can't just have him going out there and losing clean all the time. Part of what makes them stars is that they are booked to look stronger than everyone else, so when they do eventually lose it's a big deal. Look at home many people Hogan ever put over clean during his run in the 80s, basically the Ultimate Warrior and that's it.

Austin destroyed everybody all the time and that's what made him cool. Austin would enter the Rumble, eliminate everyone, get bored, throw people back in, and give them the stunner again. Austin came out and fought the entire WCW roster at one point. I also can't even think of a time where Austin lost clean at a PPV other than his final match with the Rock at WM19. Austin beat the Rock's candy ass at Mania 15, but nobody said he buried the Rock. In fact it was the opposite. Now look at the Rock's run as the top face, which was pretty much from late 1999 to 2002. He pretty much never lost clean. I guess the Rock buried everyone too.

The fact of the matter is, heels tend to cheat so when they go up against a babyface, especially a top babyface, they aren't going to get the "clean" win. 1. that doesn't negate the win, and 2. even if they lose they can still be elevated by working with a top star that draws a lot of money. In fact, it's usually the role of the heel to make the face look good, since the face is the one that draws the money.

At the end of the day, the fact that Cena prevails most of the time is an integral part of his character. He's the franchise, he's the top guy, he needs to be booked to look stronger. That's what makes the atmosphere around a John Cena main event so awesome. They've put over his character so well, he always creates a big fight feel. That's what also makes beating Cena or feuding with Cena so significant. The entire reason CM Punk got over wasn't just because of winning matches against Cena, it was because Cena's character was a perfect foil for Punk, and the "dynasty" aspect of Cena's character is to thank for that. CM Punk even called him a dynasty and compared him to the NY Yankees. That resonated with people because it's true, and it's true because he was booked well.

 

[Con T.]

Because, as I intimated in a thread I made years ago, 99% of fans fucking morons.

That's exactly what I said in this thread yonder.

http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=248029&highlight=fucking+morons

I'll sum it up by saying what was said there; none of you get that there is a way to build a guy. Cena made Sandow look as hold as he ever has... It isn't Cena's fault creative failed Sandow. Cena did everything he did could for him, and made him look lil a star.

He did the same for Ziggler, and so many others. And he'll do it for Bray Wyatt. In fact, Bray Wyatt is the most over he has been, since he debuted.

 

[enviousdominous]

If you're popular enough with the fans on your own, you can't possibly be buried.

Cena, who I really don't like, is in a very unfortunate position. He isn't just a top face because the McMahons can't imagine him being in any other place on the card, he's a top face because he's been a top face and putting him any lower on the card would undermine the opponents that he's granted a loss to.

Being that I don't like him, I'll of course boo him in accordance with the proper decorum expected of a pro-wrestling fan.

While I question his determination to make his fellow performers look better when they share the spotlight with him, I honestly don't blame him if someone he's shared the program with has suddenly fallen out of favor. I think the core of the problem lies with shitty writing, I don't think that John is anywhere in the spectrum of what the problem is.

You have to give regular smarks a break now and then when they feel like they've hit upon an insightful conclusion that turns out to be utter rubbish. They see John Cena engaged in a program with an over *ugh* Zack Ryder, and add two and two to get Zack Ryder lost his momentum because John Cena didn't do a good enough job promoting him. As much as I dislike John, I knew that nothing could possibly give the "WOO WOO WOO" bullshit any long-term likeability. I don't think that John buried Zack Ryder, I think that Zack Ryder buried Zack Ryder when his adorable stupidity no longer amused the internet.

Damien Sandow lost to John Cena, making him the only guy to have ever lost his money in the bank cash-in. The odds were in his favor and he still couldn't pin the WWE's golden boy. As much as I hate John Cena, I see a Damien Sandow championship reign as being less notable than Jack Swagger's. Damien doesn't have any high impact finishing moves, any "Oooh!" worthy signature moves and his character has been made to look like a book smart dipshit on tv. I think his path to burial started when he was given a money in the bank briefcase that he could never realistically use given how boring his character has become.

John Cena may be all kinds of fun pejoratives to a guy like me, I personally think that he's not responsible for burying anyone. I might argue that he's occasionally guilty of not going far enough to put a shine on an equally over performer, but all of those people have been successful so it'd be a moot point.

I think anyone who argues that John is burying people are just grasping at straws to criticize him beyond just a general distaste for his style. I don't think that Cena feels threatened by the idea of someone else getting the top spot, as long as he knows that it's in good hands. I'll buy a ticket for a number of reasons, one of those is to boo John Cena. The WWE earns my money as long as they book John Cena the same way they've been booking him.

 

[enviousdominous]

The stuff with Nexus was a clusterfuck but that could well have been creative.

As much as I hate John Cena, I honestly think that the Nexus saga was more beneficial for those involved due to his involvement.

Daniel Bryan was fired, and when he returned John Cena was the one who introduced him to Summerslam. The next night on Raw John was bragging about how good a job Daniel Bryan did at the PPV in a promo with Wade Barrett. Daniel didn't have coattails to ride at the time, so to me it seemed like a pretty selfless rub.

Wade Barrett was allowed to come across as a cold callous brute who could be clever enough to manipulate Cena, kind of like a sophisticated thug. He still needed a schtick to get himself over like most other performers, but I think that his work with Cena helped establish him as a strong heel. I don't think that Bad News Barrett would be nearly as over as he is today if Cena didn't work with him.

It was indeed a clusterfuck because it's a Hell of a lot more difficult for a performer to break out on his own if he's sharing a gimmick with six other dudes. For anyone who blames Cena for how Nexus turned out, their blame might seem a little more credible if they can brainstorm a way that he could have possibly made them any better than they ended up being. I honestly think that Nexus died because WWE creative foolishly put Punk in charge of it when Punk had little intention of staying a WWE employee.