Who Was Most Justified In Turning On Hogan?

[The Brain]

I want to start by saying this is a kayfabe discussion.

Keep your friends close and your enemies closer. It’s lonely at the top. Both clichés could apply to Hulk Hogan during his Hulkamania run. Over the years many of his closest friends have turned against the Hulkster. Since these betrayals took place when many of us were young we naturally think of Hogan as the innocent victim. If you take a minute to look at the other point of view you could argue that the betrayals were justified. So who do you feel had the best reason to turn on Hogan?

Paul Orndorff: Being called a Hogan lackey did not do much for the big ego of Mr. Wonderful. I can understand his frustration in Hogan refusing to stop his workout to take his phone call on national television, but I’m not sure that gave Orndorff enough reason to turn on the Hulk.

Andre the Giant: He was undefeated for 15 years and despite being 7’5 and 525 pounds it was Hogan who cast a shadow over Andre. There is absolutely no reason to say Andre was wrong in wanting a title shot against Hogan, but he didn’t have to align himself with Bobby Heenan and tear the crucifix off the champion’s chest? He could have simply asked his friend for a match.

Randy Savage: There’s nothing lower than going after your best friend’s woman. Hogan trying to steal Elizabeth away from Savage gave the Macho Man every reason to turn on the Hulkster. That is if that’s what happened. Sometimes one’s own insecurities can play tricks on his mind. Savage was champion for a year but it was Hogan who was still the most popular guy in the WWF and even Elizabeth may have been becoming more popular. Savage’s ego couldn’t take it and he went off the deep end turning on Hogan and losing Elizabeth along the way.

Sid Justice: The Royal Rumble is supposed to be every man for himself but Hogan couldn’t believe it when his friend eliminated him from behind. Hulk responded by helping eventual winner Ric Flair eliminate Sid from the rumble. Later Hogan was awarded a shot at Flair’s title at WM8. Sid felt the match should have gone to him and took out his frustrations on Hogan.

Brutus Beefcake: Beefcake had long been considered a Hogan lackey and apparently he couldn’t take it anymore. Pride and ego go hand and hand so take your choice as to why Beefcake turned on Hogan.

Shawn Michaels: HBK pleaded with Hogan to come out of retirement to be his partner in a feud with Muhammad Hassan and Daivari. Hogan obliged and the two made short work of their opponents. HBK then gave Hogan an unexpected taste of sweet chin music. It turned out that Michaels only lured Hogan back so he could get a match against Hogan himself. Seems to me HBK could have just issued a challenge to Hogan without teaming with him only to turn on him.

So which of these villains was most justified in turning on the Hulkster? I’d say it’s easily Sid Justice. Hogan pulling Sid out of the ring at the Royal Rumble was a display of poor sportsmanship. Sid did nothing illegal or even underhanded when eliminating Hogan. Hogan robbed Sid of his chance of becoming champion and was rewarded by getting his own title match against Flair. I think Sid had every right to turn against Hogan.

Feel free to include anyone I may have forgotten but please keep it to only people who turned against Hogan while he was the face.

 

[justtxyank]

Begin kayfabe...

Sid 100%. His turn is so justified that it is not really clear that Hogan should have been the face in the turn.

Just for kicks, Sid actually turned on Hogan again late in their careers in WCW. Sid was a face and got angry during a match where the crowd was chanting "Hogan Hogan Hogan" so he turned on Hogan setting up another feud between the men.

 

[akrassikauda]

It has to be Sid. I still remember the kayfabe press conference. You had Hogan,Savage, Taker,Flair,Piper,Perfect,Heenan and Sid sitting down and Jack Tunney announces it's Hogan and Hogan screams YES YES, Savage gives a not so welcomed look,Old School Taker doesn't even move and Sid looked like he was going to pop a blood vessel. Then the Sid interview was hilarious "JACK TUNNEY THE DECISION YOU MADE WAS BOGUS"

Wait what there's video of this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ZTMQxTVYJE

side note when Heenan leaves you will see JJ Dillon in the background

 

[Jackal960]

I will go with an underdog, a big under dog, a 7 foot 5 one...

If I have been in the company for 15 years, and I am undefeated for that time (at least they are telling you kids that I am) and if a new guy comes in and gets the belt I will definitely fire up. He might think he is a big shot, he might think he is the Ro.. Hmm Andre, but obviously he is not. I am trying here to be the nice guy and look what I got. I look like a bodyguard to a guy who I could easily defeat anytime. I am getting my undefeated throphy and this guy comes out making a speech on behalf of me, stealing the spotlight, again? FU kids, FU being Mr Nice Guy, FU WWF. I will align myself with the people who have faith in me. Why would I align with good guys anyway? What did they give to me?

And there goes your Main Event for Wrestlemania 3! I can easily justify Andre getting upset and turning on Hogan

 

[marklouis]

Savage. As Jesse Ventura would say during broadcasts, Hogan became the "Luster". He just couldn't let Savage have his moment of glory without trying to hog all the attention. It started as soon as Savage won the belt at WM 4, when Hogan jumped in the ring & made the celebration all about him. And what was the dominant storyline during Savage's time as a face & champion? The Mega Powers. Hogan just couldn't let Savage, the WWF Champion, have his time in the spotlight. Then you have his lusting after Miss Elizabeth. Savage was the champion, Savage should have been the focus of the wrestling world. But Hogan couldn't let it happen.

 

[GameOver]

Savage hands down there issue was personal not storyline.
if you ask Savage Hogan turned on him
and if you ask Hogan he sais Macho was just overly jealous

Now in storyline they worked in Hogan coming inbetween Savage and Elizabeth but also Savage was ontop of the world and Hogan was backing him up then he decided to step back into the limelight and dumped Savage like a bad habit.

everyone else it was just about politics which Hogan was just the best at but wasn't the only person to play the game....

 

[GameOver]

I will go with an underdog, a big under dog, a 7 foot 5 one...

If I have been in the company for 15 years, and I am undefeated for that time (at least they are telling you kids that I am) and if a new guy comes in and gets the belt I will definitely fire up. He might think he is a big shot, he might think he is the Ro.. Hmm Andre, but obviously he is not. I am trying here to be the nice guy and look what I got. I look like a bodyguard to a guy who I could easily defeat anytime. I am getting my undefeated throphy and this guy comes out making a speech on behalf of me, stealing the spotlight, again? FU kids, FU being Mr Nice Guy, FU WWF. I will align myself with the people who have faith in me. Why would I align with good guys anyway? What did they give to me?

And there goes your Main Event for Wrestlemania 3! I can easily justify Andre getting upset and turning on Hogan

His beef is with promoter for not giving him a title shot not for Hogan winning and then saying Andre deserves it. But yeah once again Hogan has to be there whenever someone gets praise, Macho said that in an interview, everyone just had to get use to it.

 

[GoochOwnsYou]

In Kayfabe I have to say Sid, he eliminated Hogan fair and square and Hogan came across as a jealous and sore loser and would much rather his arch rival get the belt than his "friend". Then Hogan positions himself to get the shot Sid was screwed out of?

If I was watching that in my 30's I would have been wondering if they were trying to turn Hogan heel

Andre was there for 15 years, a major attraction and never had the strap, that would not just be a cause for kayfabe but he must have been a calm man if he didn't have legit beef with Vince. He would have been a big enough star to say "If you don't appreciate me then f**k you Vince, I'll go work for Jim Crockett"

 

[sanefan_har]

i remember seeing this tag match on youtube where sid and hulk compete against ric flair and i think the undertaker in a tag match

anyway during that sid got in first and cleaned house, when the fans started chanting "hogan hogan" he tagged the hulkster in. Hulk cleans house too and starts posing for more chants. The funny part was when somee fans chanted sid's name the match went back to a usual hogan-esque style where he gets beaten down until he either tags out or hulks up out of nowhere. By this time sid was so pissed off(and by default me too) he walked out of the match.
Só for me, that and the rumble incident justify sid's turn against hogan anyday.

Having said that savage's turn was brilliant although hogan won at wrestlemania

P.S thank god for the warrior man he ended what could have been the most horribly booked wrestlemania streak

 

[Mustang Sally]

Hogan trying to steal Elizabeth away from Savage gave the Macho Man every reason to turn on the Hulkster.

Definitely that. There had been plenty of build-up to the splitting of the Mega Powers, but the incident on Saturday Night's Main Event was the most blatant. Elizabeth got hurt by Savage landing on her after being thrown from the ring. He returned to the ring to keep fighting but Hogan was so concerned with Liz that he deserts his tag team partner to carry her to the back for medical attention, leaving Macho Man to face the two behemoths, Akeem and Big Bossman.......all by himself.

Hell, there were plenty of people at ringside who could have attended to Elizabeth; Hogan's loyalties should have lie elsewhere. To this day, I still wonder how WWE management intended this to come off. Did they think everyone would love Hogan even more since he rescued the damsel in distress, or would his actions come off as a betrayal of his tag team partner?

No one ever had more reason to turn on Hogan than Randy Savage.

 

[Davi323]

To this day, I still wonder how WWE management intended this to come off.

I think exactly how it did end up...namely, Hogan looks well intentioned, even if it hurt his partner, (it was a face thing to do, even though it cost the match) while at the same time making Savage look like a heel for NOT helping Elizabeth. It should have been understood that Elizabeth's welfare overrode any concern for the match itself. By Hogan helping her, and Savage ignoring her to continue in the match, it just reiterated that Savage was by nature, a heel who didn't really care about Elizabeth as anything other than eye candy...albeit GORGEOUS eye candy, while Hogan had his priorities right by putting Elizabeth's health over a wrestling match. This is using late 1980s WWF morality rules, not modern day IWC nitpicky rules where you actually think about everyone that was around that could have helped...

However, from Savage's perspective, I think he still has the best reason. Even if kaybabe Hogan WASN'T trying to steal his woman, from his viewpoint, it certainly would have looked that way. Women have always been one of the best ways to break up a pro-wrestling team or alliance. It's a tried and true technique that had been working for decades before the Mega Powers existed. Savage was always rather paranoid.

Regarding Sid, business is just business. It was a business decision for Sid to eliminate Hogan, and a temporary moment of frustration that caused Hogan to retaliate. Hogan was pissed, he reacted in the heat of a moment.

 

[Aberle4Life]

I will go with an underdog, a big under dog, a 7 foot 5 one...

If I have been in the company for 15 years, and I am undefeated for that time (at least they are telling you kids that I am) and if a new guy comes in and gets the belt I will definitely fire up. He might think he is a big shot, he might think he is the Ro.. Hmm Andre, but obviously he is not. I am trying here to be the nice guy and look what I got. I look like a bodyguard to a guy who I could easily defeat anytime. I am getting my undefeated throphy and this guy comes out making a speech on behalf of me, stealing the spotlight, again? FU kids, FU being Mr Nice Guy, FU WWF. I will align myself with the people who have faith in me. Why would I align with good guys anyway? What did they give to me?

And there goes your Main Event for Wrestlemania 3! I can easily justify Andre getting upset and turning on Hogan

Good response. Andre was the most justified of those that turned against Hogan, although it still seemed like Bobby Heenan simply brainwashed the guy. Andre did know his time was running short and he wanted the world title, so he went to drastic measures to get it. It's too bad he never got a run with the belt; just that win in the Hebnergate match when he won and then gave the belt directly to Ted DiBiase.

Of the choices of the OP, I would say Sid was the most justified...but Hogan did have a right to be upset he was just eliminated from behind by Sid.

 

[luxferre]

Ya know, i think Shawn had a good reason to turn...think about it, he's put on more quality matches in a year than Hulk could in a lifetime. Yet it's Hulk who reap's the glory..

Shawn devoted himself to the ART of wrestling whereas Hogan devoted himself to glory...

Brother.....

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

No doubt it was Andre. Just imagine in a kayfabe sense being undefeated and the most dominant figure in your sport, yet despite never seriously being challanged in 15 years in your sport you're all the sudden an after thought to some young hot shot(again relatively speaking). All the while dominating for all this time this "hot shot" that is supposed to be your friend doesn't even offer you a chance at the biggest prize in your sport. How B.S. is that? So there is no doubt from a kayfabe standpoint if I was Andre I would definitely have turned on Hogan. Oh yeah and BTW this is an awesome question.

 

[Arsenal]

All of them were justified in turning on that showboating, hot-dogging, prima-donna Hulk Hogan. None moreso than Randy Savage, as the "Luster" was going after his woman, an extremely personal betrayal.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

Andre.

Others had their cases, HBK was simply bitter and jealous of Hogan (kayfabe?), Sid didn't do anything illegal, but I'm sure as friends, one is to assume that Hogan comes first. Sid should have known that and watched his back when Hogan was eliminated. Same goes for Savage. He knew the writing was on the wall with Hogan and to me, seemed to know that he'd thump Hogan's head eventually and used Elizabeth as an excuse to do so.

Andre on the other hand was Hogan's biggest fan. He loved to help the up and comer in any way possible and their history was great. That being said, not one time did Hogan thank Andre in promos or in the ring. Andre felt unappreciated and disrespected and made Hogan pay. Andre had the biggest incentive to turn on Hogan... just to show Hogan that he's not safe in the world of pro wrestling and that loyalty goes a long way. Also Andre had never been WWF Champion either.

 

[relentless1]

I think the wolfpac was most justified...hollywood hogan was a dick... the "real" pesona of hulk hogan, a ball hog if you will, if i were nash i wouldve split right after starrcade lol

 

[CraigThe13th]

SAVAGE!!!

As a kid I totally sided with the Macho Man on this one all the way upto he attacked Warrior, my actually childhood fave. As far as I could see, Hogan left Savage high and dry to take Elizabeth backstage leaving Macho to take a beating from the Twin Towers.

This is taking you back to my opinion I had as an infant school fan but I still mostly hold this opinion. The referees or the doctors or the blokes who split the fights up (now know they were Tony Garea,Rene Goulet etc) could have taken Liz backstage. Macho Man was in trouble in the ring and Hogan was well aware of that.

I didn't have Sky at the time and had my wrestling videotaped for me so wasn't watching every week. So as far as I was concerned Hogan shows up in Macho's corner once there is no chance of himself winning the WWF title at Wrestlemania 4. It seemed strange at the time and as a little boy I really thought it was the start of Hogan turning bad not Macho Man.

The only way I knew otherwise was that when he did turn, he hit Hogan from behind. Maybe I've always been as mistrusting as Macho, but I felt Hogan was up to something and Savage was right to attack him! There was the Elizabeth issue plus the fact that (kayfabe) Hogan was stealing Savage's spotlight as the WWF champion.