Who Made Who?

[DugoutDan17]

Now I remember reading this in one of the wrestling mags and I’m sure its been mentioned on WWE TV before by Vince McMahon but....

Who made who? Did Vince McMahon make Hulk Hogan? Did Vince McMahon make Stone Cold?? Or Did Hulk Hogan make Hulk Hogan? Did Stone Cold in fact make Stone Cold??

To me its the classic what came first the egg or the chicken scenario, imo Vince McMahon gave them the ball and they made the touchdown without the WWE Platform there is no saying these guys would have got over on there own or would they?? I’m not 100% sure either way I don’t think there is any right or wrong answer here...Your opinions please

 

[SalvIsWin]

The truth is likely somewhere in between. Vince McMahon gave each individual the platform, and likely gave each individual some advice and direction. Likewise, Steve Williams developed his Stone Cold Steve Austin character, not creative development. I remember reading in his biography that when he pitched his idea about a 'cold' (emotionally, not temperature) character, creative had the wrong idea and sent him all these names like Ice Dagger or Chilly McFreeze.

This is similar to a movie, who's responsible for the success, the director or the actor? The actor typically is going to take some direction and advice from the director, but ultimately is acting what he/she feel is the character - this is method acting.

 

[Wrestlemania 20-0]

i remember when mark Calaway arrived at WWF,he talk with Vince Mac mahon what he see the carachter of Taker with long hair,hat and a long trenchcoat.
he wants a old style western Taker and he debuted like this in 1990,in 1996 he was decided to create an new Taker with an costume more futured and simply and abandonned forever his former look.
At the backstage many wrestlers are informed by advance the evolution of theirs gimmicks.

 

[SSJPhenom]

i remember when mark Calaway arrived at WWF,he talk with Vince Mac mahon what he see the carachter of Taker with long hair,hat and a long trenchcoat.
he wants a old style western Taker and he debuted like this in 1990,in 1996 he was decided to create an new Taker with an costume more futured and simply and abandonned forever his former look.
At the backstage many wrestlers are informed by advance the evolution of theirs gimmicks.

Are you f'n serious bro? I mean come on! You make all 'Taker fans look bad with posts like these. OMG!!

On to the thread....

I would say that Vince can claim some credit for both men because, as stated above, he provided the platform for both men and at the end of the day, it's his decision what his talent does.

Having said that, both men also deserve some credit for being able to bring their respective persona to life.

 

[jokernaut]

they all help make each other. i think vince and austin made each other bigger but austin made himself with that famous "austin 316 says i just whooped your ass" phrase at king of the ring. when vince and austin had their rivalry it definitely helped austin but he helped himself into that position. hogan and vince to me were business partners. one guy was good at one thing, the other was good at the other thing and it made for great business. vince gives you the ball if he thinks you can take it but its up to whoever it is to make the best of it. wwe is really a teamwork business all around if you want to be on top. its the same with the wrestling part of it. it cant be a classic without both guys pushing themselves to their limits.

 

[Mustang Sally]

The truth is likely somewhere in between.

Yes. You know, it's the obnoxious comments made by Hogan that he "taught VKM the wrestling business" that turned a lot of people against him in recent years. The implication that he succeeded all by himself and carried the wrestling business with him is as false a statement as has ever been made. For one thing, he was always a selfish, self-promoter and I can't see that he was looking after anyone but himself. That his persona did a lot for wrestling is unmistakable, but I doubt the veracity of his motivations and conclusions. For another thing, Hogan had worked for several promotions before McMahon Jr. got a hold of him, including Vince's father in WWF. The amazing things that happened to Hogan didn't occur until Vince Jr. spring-boarded Hogan to the national stage of wrestling (aided by Hogan's appearance in the movie Rocky III).

In other words, Hogan had been around for a long time without setting the world on fire, but it wasn't until he combined his act with Vince Jr's vision and promotional skills that Hogan's career truly took off. It was short-sighted and stupid for Hogan to suggest he made McMahon and/or wrestling. You have to be given the opportunity first.....and Vince did that for Hogan.

You know what? I've always had the feeling that somewhere, there's a pro wrestler sitting around that might have had the goods to be better than all the others in his field; the personality, wrestling skills and charisma......but never had the luck or opportunity to get the promoter's push and never had the backing......therefore, if we remember his career at all, it was only as a regular wrestler who came and went. For all we know, there could be several people like this. The concept applies in other professions, too.

Nobody makes it by themselves. Not to legend status, anyway.

 

[SalvIsWin]

Honestly, I think Hogan was in the right place at the right time. He's even said in his book he was never quite sure why the fans liked him so much, I think it was just the right time for a character like his and he had a unique look that made him attractive to the fans.

Either way, Hogan had tremendous success, but he's had a lot of failures. When you read his book, or listen to his on podcasts or interviews he tends to say that he knew what should have been done, or had people listened to him the outcome would have been different (Goldberg and The Ultimate Warrior are two examples where he felt they were mismanaged). However there's really no evidence that Hogan understands the business better than anybody else.

 

[Pedigree1]

i also agree its mutual on both the talents behalf and vinnie macs!! Perfect example is SCSA when he was first running as stone cold!! When steve williams was drinking his tea (his then wife said you better drink it before it gets stone cold!! Pefect then SCSA pitched that idea to vinnie mac and well rest is history!! It takes two to tangle and vinnie macs mind is pure genius for the business!!

ANother example Hogan has gone on to say for years and years he made wrestling ummm you helped it in a big way yes but to imply you made it no Vinnie macs vision and your talent helped make it what it is today!! Thats the part of hogan that has always pissed me off!! He takes all the credit and gives none cept to the man staring back at him in the mirror.

It takes opportunity to be given to one talent and that was hogan and vinnie mac and hogan made more money than fort Knox has gold stored in it!! Ok maybe not that much before someone on here corrects me but you get my point.

In short both men deserve credit talent for bringing the persona to life and vinnie macs vision for that idea

 

[ProWrestlingFan84]

If we're talking during that time in the early/mid 80's where Hogan started to boom with Hulkamania, I like to think Hogan helped a great deal in making the WWE with what it would turn into. Way back when, Hogan was a heel in the same mold to Jesse Venture and Billy Graham and then he went to AWA and from the AWA documentary, that's where he started to get over as a face before going back to WWF. So I learn towards that Hogan made himself and helped make the WWF. As for STSA, he's another example of a person who made himself. Original gimmick was a technician named the ring master. It wasn't a bad gimmick but it was really at the KOTR in 96 where STSA started making his own character with the famous post match interview.

 

[Wrestlemania 20-0]

at the point when mark calaway makes he personna of Taker he demanded first in WCW who refused this and after he called vince for to developpated this gimmick,i don't think Vince was the creator of this.
Every fans of taker knows it cos he said that on the DVD this is my yard.

 

[AwesomeRko]

As far as Stone Cold goes, he made himself Vince merely helped in firstly giving him the platform and creative freedom to do it and then providing him with such a great authority figure to rebel against.

Like many have mentioned in Austin's biography he states that evereything from the name to the actual charcter (which was basically a blown-up version of him) was all developed by himself, pretty much in spite of the advice of the creative team.

Mick Foley and the Rock are too other examples of this, if creative had gotten their way the three top stars of the Attitude era would probably have faded into obscurity off the back of awful gimmicks, its kind of strange to think.

 

[PunkTruster91]

Well DugoutDan, I agree. I mean Hogan was already getting over in the AWA and was pretty much taken in to WWE as a babyface, I believe it was the right place at the right time. At the same time Steve Austin, wasnt getting over at all in WCW a little in ECW and once he let out his attitude BAM!!! the rattlesnake who didnt give a f*** was born, and they were trying so hard to make him heel. Fans wouldnt have it. Stone Colds attitude made the on screen Mr. McMahon. He did give them the ball though.

 

[willross]

Verne Gagne made Hulk Hogan....Vince blew him up into a mega star by giving him the worldwide platform. Vince and Hogan made the WWE what is today, a near billion dollar profit per year company.

Bret Hart made Stone Cold Steve Austin. He pushed from 1994 for Vince to sign him and hand picked him to feud with in his comeback in 1996. He put him over as a huge and legit threat to the top talent and put the cherry on top by putting him over the way he did at WM13.

 

[obamartins]

In other words, Hogan had been around for a long time without setting the world on fire, but it wasn't until he combined his act with Vince Jr's vision and promotional skills that Hogan's career truly took off. It was short-sighted and stupid for Hogan to suggest he made McMahon and/or wrestling. You have to be given the opportunity first.....and Vince did that for Hogan.

Hulk Hogan was already the TOP DRAW in ALL pro wrestling 1 year prior to Vince McMahon signing him. He was HUGE in Japan & AWA's top star doing the Hulkamania gimmick & like stated before had been in the Rocky movie...

 

[willross]

Hulk Hogan was already the TOP DRAW in ALL pro wrestling 1 year prior to Vince McMahon signing him. He was HUGE in Japan & AWA's top star doing the Hulkamania gimmick & like stated before had been in the Rocky movie...

That is actually false. Sgt Slaughter was the wrestling's biggest draw in North America up until the time when Hogan came in around 1984.

 

[OneTooManyPunts]

Credit has to go to all involved. Vince McMahon gave Hogan, Austin, Rock, Cena the platforms and means to be successful, but it was their skills and intangibles that really made them superstars.

You could name an endless parade of names Vince McMahon wanted to see become mega stars that never made it, simply because they lacked the perfect combination of look, ring and mic skills, and charisma to get to that next level.

I think of those you named, Vince really owes the most to Hogan. For as much as the IWC, myself included rag on Hogan these days, his contribution to the WWE and to professional wrestling are unquestioned. He put the WWE on the map, and really made pro wrestling an acceptable medium on a national level. He was the first wrestler to really break down the stigma and barrier of what a pro wrestler was, and he was really the first to transcend the business and become a true household name. He was the perfect person for McMahon to build the WWE around at the time, and it was his drawing power that created the interest and revenue that helped the WWE become what it is today. So no matter what Hogan is as a person, or is to the business in 2012, both he and McMahon owe each other more than either will probably ever admit.

With Austin, I think Vince really did help make him. Austin bounced around from WCW to ECW, with marginal success, but never had the full trust and enthusiasm of a promoter to be allowed to become anything more than a midcarder. Vince definitely knew what he had in Austin, and he used Austin's natural strengths as a performer, as well as a character that was just an extention of Austin himself, to really tap into a good counter balance against WCW. Austin, without a doubt in my mind made the Mr. McMahon character. I'm not sure anyone else in WWE could have been the foil that McMahon needed to get his own character across, and the way they gelled throughout their feud was a testament to how much each believed in the other. Austin helped save the WWE in an era where it was languishing, and Austin made it possible for Vince to live out his on air dreams, so again I guess both truly owe each other.

With Cena, I think he owes Vince everything. As time has gone on, we've seen that a lot of the fan base has turned away from him, and in many cases, that would be enough for Vince to pull the plug. But he knows that with Cena, that polarizing appeal he has brings something to the table. It makes for those iconic moments like Cena at One Night Stand, or Cena/Punk at MITB. Plus, as much as Cena does do for WWE, Vince has chosen to continue to build the company off of Cena's back, when there is talent like Punk, Orton and others still rising to the next level with which he could use as the foundation.

 

[Skinsley]

Hulk Hogan started his Gimmick before WWE (didnt he?) and I think he made his own career after that being the big man and having all the freedom with the character he already was.

However

Vince/WWE Made Stone Cold..... he was a totaly different Gimmick before Creative took a shot and it paid off. If it wasnt SCSA it may well have been someone else. But I guess we will never know.

 

[Gman35]

The truth is likely somewhere in between. Vince McMahon gave each individual the platform, and likely gave each individual some advice and direction. Likewise, Steve Williams developed his Stone Cold Steve Austin character, not creative development. I remember reading in his biography that when he pitched his idea about a 'cold' (emotionally, not temperature) character, creative had the wrong idea and sent him all these names like Ice Dagger or Chilly McFreeze.

This is similar to a movie, who's responsible for the success, the director or the actor? The actor typically is going to take some direction and advice from the director, but ultimately is acting what he/she feel is the character - this is method acting.

Austin said during his dvd's that they were giving him some dumb names, he didn't like the ring master name either, but he wanted the job, so he did it, and later he became Stone Cold. Hogan has said he was the one who taught Vince Mcmahon how to do what he does, really, well look at Hogan in TNA. Hmm, anyway, these guys put their bodies on the line day in and day out. That being said, Vince obviously saw things in both of them, and gave them the platform, just like you said. We can play the what if game all day, but Vince very easily could have given the ball to Stamboat, Hogan may not have gotten that big. Just my opinion

 

[KoC417]

The truth is likely somewhere in between. Vince McMahon gave each individual the platform, and likely gave each individual some advice and direction. Likewise, Steve Williams developed his Stone Cold Steve Austin character, not creative development. I remember reading in his biography that when he pitched his idea about a 'cold' (emotionally, not temperature) character, creative had the wrong idea and sent him all these names like Ice Dagger or Chilly McFreeze.

This is similar to a movie, who's responsible for the success, the director or the actor? The actor typically is going to take some direction and advice from the director, but ultimately is acting what he/she feel is the character - this is method acting.

This was also in Stone Colds newer/newest DVD set there were a bunch of ridiculous names I'll have to go back and see if I can find the spot maybe upload/post the shot of the names at some point.

But IMO Steve made Stone Cold. Vince had nothing to do with it. He was a PART of it but Stone Cold was developed BY Steve, and it fit him perfectly. That is 1 person Vince can't take 100% of the credit for.

As far as who made Hulk Hogan that's simple. Hulk didn't and Vince didn't. The people did. I mean when Hulk jumped from WWF to WCW the fans followed him. I know of some people that boycotted the WCW product because Hogan came over. WWF had die hard fans at that point. It was a culmination of the fans, McMahon and Hulk that really made Hogan. I hope in Vince's twisted warped reality he doesn't honestly think he made Hogan, Austin, Flair, Undertaker etc etc. The only thing Vince CAN take 100% of the credit for is effectively killing the solid competition WCW/WWF had going. If he had kept his stupid ego out of it we could have had WCW Monday Nitro vs. WWF for years and years after we did.

 

[Its_A_Snake!]

at the point when mark calaway makes he personna of Taker he demanded first in WCW who refused this and after he called vince for to developpated this gimmick,i don't think Vince was the creator of this.
Every fans of taker knows it cos he said that on the DVD this is my yard.

............. anyway.....

I'd say its 50/50
Vinnie McManigan gave them the opportunity. They took the ball and ran with it. Simples

 

[Fansince1992]

I think Vince did a lot to help Austin become as popular as he was.
I mean a guy with Vince's money there was no need for him to ever to step inside that ring. To Vince's credit he had some quite brutal matches and put his own body on the line. (Remember the cage match Vince v Austin)
Not at all saying Vince is the only reason Austin became a legend but i do think Vince was a big part of it!

 

[GameOver]

Gonna throw a few others there that may or may not have been mentioned
In all cases it's a bit of both, Vince jr provided the stage and allowed said superstars to go all the way, said superstars took the ball and not only ran with it but scored numerous touchdowns

as for the characters

Austin wasn't far from Stone Cold b4 he got to WWE so he made the character Vince provided the stage and the nickname Stone Cold after drinking cold coffee during a meeting with Austin. or maybe i got that backwards, just going on memory

Hogan was already a Hoganesque character b4 Vince jr too over WWF albeit a boring slow character, technically Vince Snr created Hulk Hogan he certainly put Terry Bolea on the map, Vince jr just went with a Super Hero name in Hulk Hogan, put everything into WWF going global and pushing Hogan to the moon, Terry provided the charisma and the PR and the body. So in that case they equally contributed 50/50 IMO.

If Hogan wasn't that larger then life presence and a Public Relations dream not to mention such a charismatic person (if you didn't know him from within the business) it's arguable Hulkamania like event would never have taken place

and on the flipside if Vince Jr, hadn't re-signed Terry Bolea after he was fired for appearing in Rocky III and pumped everything into trying to create a cult following and a global phenomenon then Hogan would never have reached Immortal status. (atleast in America)

Undertaker is more Vince then Mark i'd say, Vince provided the stage, fed the fueds, technically created "The Streak" Mark provided the dark acting, the unique ring style for a big man and the work attitude.

John Cena like Hogan is a bit of both too, mostly marketing the right demographic but once again like Hogan if Cena didn't have the charisma to captivate the kids, work ethic and a public relations gold, he would would've been a floater between mid-upper mid card for alot longer, not saying he wouldn't have reached the world title cause he certainly would've whether you like him or not he has the look and the ability it's just the current character that was annoying.

HBK is mostly HBK - Even if Vince hadn't taken a chance and let him carry the ball HBK would've still continued to pump out stellar matches and cut cool cocky promo's all the world title did was just cemented HBK in legendary status it wasn't really his claim to fame like a Triple H or Ric Flair for instance who were mostly about being the World Champ and competing in that spotlight. HBK was the one that put HBK over.

Triple H - bit of both... It's no secret he married into greatness and that hasn't hindered his career but he was still a solid worker who like a Cena or Vince lives the business and he survived a year long burial which is something that definately gets stars over with Vince. Outside of that he puts bums on seats, does the PR work outside the ring and sells PPV's so that's win win for everyone.

Bret Hart - The Fans made Bret. no secreet Vince (atleast the character) doesn't see what people see in Canadian's which is ironic considering he's had numerous stars that have gone all the way to the top that were Canadian's. Vince also didn't get Bret other then his in ring ability. Yet despite all that Bret got to the top on fan support alone and then died by the same hand.

here's a side poll though Who Made Vince