Who is truly more creative? Vince McMahon or Eric Bischoff?

[kobrad]

Okay so i heard today that Bischoff has said that he is better than McMahon. you can read it here...
http://www.wrestlezone.com/news/article/eric-bischoff-says-hes-better-than-vince-mcmahon-more-94525

so is it true? is Bischoff better than McMahon?

Lets look at the credentials first.

Vince: Inherited WWE from his father and has brought it to the forefront of the wrestling industry. the richest man in wrestling and has made himself an iconic figure in sports entertainment

Eric: Was brought in by Ted Turner to take over WCW day to day and he brought it to the forefront. He actually beat Vince for 2 years in the ratings. He came out of nowhere to sign the most popular guys from Vince's show to beat him.

Now to the creative part.

Vince: He created the biggest spectacle in Wrestling EVER. WRESTLEMANIA. He does not help however with character progression and the ideas behind the character in the first place.

Eric: Hasnt created WM but is a genious in stories and character creation. He did create the Elimination Chamber and the Raw Roulette (which i love).

In looking at both of these things i would say BISCHOFF wins. He has beat Vince even though Vince was the dominant force with fame already. He is a wrestling genious. To be honest Vince got pretty lucky inheriting WWE and that is why he is as big as he is.

 

[Chrome]

Here is another point.

Vince is used to buying talent, not creating them. Back in the 80's Hogan, Perfect, Rude, etc (like 80%+ of his roster) all came from AWA and were never deveolped by him. Hogan was over BIG TIME in AWA and that is where hulkamania started Vince doesn't acknowledge this much. In any event his idea for Wresltemania was a rip off of Starcade which Dusty Rhoades had.

Note* NWA/WCW was really lead by Ric Flair in the 80's he was in AWA first as well LOL as was Bischoff..

Now to fast forward to bischoff..

Bischoff got the job by Ted Turner .. (who bought NWA from the crockets who bought it back from Vince Machmon after they sold it to him since Ted did not want to do business with him) During this time, WCW was on the brink and wanted Hulk Hogan, and more exposure, Eric pitched a partnership with NJPW and introduced a different crusierwieght style to the US. Even made the cruiserwieght division by adding all sorts of light wieghts..

THEN he changed the face of wrestling by making the NWO an angle used in Japan that he incorporated for WCW given there partnership. Hogan, Hall and Nash. He went against what the WWF was doing at the time, and became more hip and cool. HE then became an on air personallity.. then WCW became the #1 promotion ratings wise..

What did Vince do? He copied Bischoff and made himself a character, made DX to counter NWO, got even MORE raunchy than he knew WCW was allowed to do given the family channel they were on. WCW in the meantime started creating stars.. Like The Giant, Goldberg, DDP, Stieners, Buff Bagwell cruiserweights, revamped Sting, etc.. Oh yeah once the Cruiserwieght title was hot, he made the Lightwieght division, and made the hardcore division once ECW was hot too.. note* Jericho, Beniot, Malenko, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerro, etc do you honestly think Vince would have brought these guys in and developed them had they not been with WCW first? Come on who are you kidding)

(note* who else can claim beating Hulk Hogan in there first match? The Bigshow can, and that was in WCW)

From what I understand Vince Russo wrote a lot of the scripts for The Rock, Mankind, and Stone Cold so there success are do in part to Russo. (I know that sounds harsh) Also Credit Vince for the Undertaker and HBK, but the idea for KANE came from Paul Bearer and undertaker NOT Vince. (listen to paul bearer shoot interviews)

Eric changed the way wrestling is today.. Vince has a history or simply copying and stealing talent. Once he bought everything what was left? The result.. John Cena... and the some old guys leading every PPV over and over..

Bischoff has fresh ideas and its been proven that he is unpredictable and many know that he is NOT the reason WCW was bought, he tried to buy it out right but was unable to. Russo came in and screwed it up and kevin Sullivan really was not much better at booking and neither was Nash.. once Bischoff stopped booking and the TV executives wanted a lot of stuff off TV, the product went to crap.

So what is the verdict?

Vince is a better promoter, but not very creative, all he does is hot shots everything and steals ideas and talent. (note* Jericho, Beniot, Malenko, Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerro, etc do you honestly think Vince would have brought these guys in and developed them had they not been with WCW first? Come on who are you kidding)

Eric IS the better of the two in regards to talent, product, storylines, etc.. He ran the show AND booked it without writers.. Vince runs the show but has a ton of writers as he is unable to think up anything new.

Winner easily is Eric. Because he had to do alot from the ground up, Vince never had too he just bought up everything.

 

[LamaNamaneumi]

Chrome you make a good argument , but you said yourself that Bishoff stole the NWO storyline from japan and that was what helped WCW win the war for two years.

The cruiserweights you listed were all hot in Mexico and Japan before they went to ECW. Yeah that too was not a bishoff idea.

The Stiners are not Bishoffs idea the were around for awhile.

I'm not saying that Vince is more creative, but most of Bishoffs best ideas seem to come from some where else. That's how wrestling works you see something that works and you tweak it a little to make it seem fresh.

 

[Chrome]

Chrome you make a good argument , but you said yourself that Bishoff stole the NWO storyline from japan and that was what helped WCW win the war for two years.

The cruiserweights you listed were all hot in Mexico and Japan before they went to ECW. Yeah that too was not a bishoff idea.

The Stiners are not Bishoffs idea the were around for awhile.

I'm not saying that Vince is more creative, but most of Bishoffs best ideas seem to come from some where else. That's how wrestling works you see something that works and you tweak it a little to make it seem fresh.

But WWE was only pushing BIG GUYS remeber? Bischoff went smaller and made them cool. Mexico and Japan were hot in the 80's too did Vince take a chance on them? NO not until Bischoff came along and made them mainstreem stars in WCW. The ATTITUDE era and Monday Night wars and in your face attitude started with Bischoff. the NWO idea was talked about during the partnership with NJPW. Steal yeah but not really as they were apart of the NWO as well..

The question was if Eric was more creative.. and the answer really is YES, since Vince only has a history of Buying out stuff and relying on others.. even Hogan has gone on record saying that he taught Vine the business in the 80's-90's.

On the stieners.. did Vince do anything different with the stieners when they were in WWF after coming from NWA? no... what did Eric do to Scott's career? He became a superstar.. Creatively Eric has always been a ground breaker but Vince gets all the credit.

 

[Mustang Sally]

Vince is used to buying talent, not creating them.

If there is anyone in wrestling history that can be accused to buying talent to make his company, it was Bischoff, not McMahon.

He bought the cream of WWE to stock his NWO idea. Can you imagine what it must have cost to fund the WCW roster in the mid-90's? Do you think Hall, Nash and Savage came over for any reason other than money?

And the way they went about it was insane. If you want to talk about buying talent, talk about Bret Hart. (I don't have exact numbers; I go by what I read in several forums. It's the principle of the matter I'm trying to address). WWE decided they couldn't afford him at a salary of $1 million/year, and told him to cut a deal with WCW. So Bischoff, realizing there were no other major wrestling companies to compete with for Bret, could have gotten him for the same salary, or even less given there was nowhere else for him to go. So what does Bischoff do?.......he gives Bret $3 million!

I'm saying: What for? Why throw around money like that?

No, it's Eric Bischoff that can be accused of buying talent far more than Vince McMahon.

 

[Chrome]

If there is anyone in wrestling history that can be accused to buying talent to make his company, it was Bischoff, not McMahon.

WHAT??? You do realize he bought 90% of the wrestlers from the AWA right? which is why they were unable to draw and went bankrupt. (undertaker, Paul Bearer, Hogan, Beefcake, Perfect, Rude, demolition, Rick Martel, Bobby the Brain Heenan, Mean Gene Okerland, Scott Hall, Jesse Ventura, etc etc etc soo many to name ALL came from AWA..if you think VINCE developed those guys then you really are a mark LOL)

He bought the cream of WWE to stock his NWO idea. Can you imagine what it must have cost to fund the WCW roster in the mid-90's? Do you think Hall, Nash and Savage came over for any reason other than money?

It was how they were used that was different, Vince HAD all those guys at the same time and NEVER used them the way Eric did. Also Eric had to use some money to make WCW competitve. Lets not forget that WCW HAD great talent BEFORE Hogan and Ex-WWF/AWA wrestlers came in..

And the way they went about it was insane. If you want to talk about buying talent, talk about Bret Hart. (I don't have exact numbers; I go by what I read in several forums. It's the principle of the matter I'm trying to address). WWE decided they couldn't afford him at a salary of $1 million/year, and told him to cut a deal with WCW. So Bischoff, realizing there were no other major wrestling companies to compete with for Bret, could have gotten him for the same salary, or even less given there was nowhere else for him to go. So what does Bischoff do?.......he gives Bret $3 million!

DUDE, do you remember WHY Bret went to WCW? VINCE had him under contract and could not think of anyway to use him and TOLD Bret he could not afford him any longer and he should try to contact WCW to see if they will still offer him a contract. Eric Bishoff wanted Bret to star on Thunder since that was when the stupid TNT execs wanted a second wrestling show...

Oh yeah thats something else Vince copied.... Smackdown was made in spite of Thunder..

I'm saying: What for? Why throw around money like that?

No, it's Eric Bischoff that can be accused of buying talent far more than Vince McMahon.

That last comment made me LOL A LOT! LOL do some research before commenting look up the history of the AWA.. LOL AWA and NWA were the hotest Wresting companies BEFORE WWF was around Vince needed talent and basically bought out everything from AWA... name me ONE talent that came from the WWF in the 80's? ONE? Andre started in different territories.. Bret started in stampede wrrestling, the von erichs and rockers (HBK) started in texas, undertakers started in the USWF and AWA, JYD started in the NWA, I mean the list goes on and on.. Vince did not start up NO ONE. At least bischoff can proudly say he made talent. (DDP, Goldberg, etc hell he made superstars)

later on in life what goes around came around and if Bischoff was sole owner of WCW he would have burried WWF. But he was not, and no one can argue the fact that when he was demoted/left WCW is when WCW tanked! he was the sole reason WCW was successfull .. once the TV exec's got to him they burried it. Russo did not help and kevin sullivian is a dumb booker that let the game pass him buy and lets not get into when Nash was booker... all this was NOT a result of Bischoff. He deserves credit were credit is due.

Eric = More creative

Vince = Better promoter

Verne Gange = Better Talent Developer than both Eric and Vince. He made more stars than anyone..but sucked at promoting .. I mean he had Jack Roberts, Hogan, Flair, etc etc all under one umbrella in there PRIMES!!

You can read more about the AWA here..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Wrestling_Association

I will see if I can find an online copy of the history of the AWA

Also make note the success of WWF came off the heels of Hulkamania in the 80's without Hulk Hogan WWF would be no where near successfull.. but Hulk Hogan was NOT a WWF talent.. proof? here you go Hulkamania in the AWA BEFORE WWF. (note* Hogan was in the WWWF for Vince SR. but he was heel and lame and not over, and got fired for staring in Rocky 3, thus went to AWA and became bigger than life)

Here was the birth of Hulkamania
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQth0CDkfw0&feature=related

Here is Hogan for the world title in AWA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxokO8CBonA

Also Vince trying to re-write history AGAIN states in wresltemania 3 that Andre and Hogan first met! but that was BS they met in AWA and then again in New Japan.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MHbdQuTf0zs&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X70jNLdApvY&feature=related

Vs in 1982 in NJWW
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e0XUo3Vw5r4

It was Bischoff's idea to revamp Sting, Hogan, Hall, Nash, etc.. (the nWo in NJ was no where near the beast Bischoff made it) Sting really was a cool make over as people were tired of the surfer look. His issue was he had TOO many top guys.. I mean it was HIS idea to have two brands.. remember? he wanted a NWO brand for another show and a WCW brand.. oh wait... we have RAW and Smackdown now.. VINCE is a genius!! *sarcasm*

Vince can get away with more than Eric because he OWNS the company, Eric had people to answer to, (TV execs) and was only in charge of the show,.. not the company. Had he owned the company then maybe WCW would still be on today since it was not HIM that failed the company.. the company failed him and AOL time warner was the stake in the heart of it. People refuse to remember this.. but most of all the crap we saw DID NOT come from Bischoff but a combination of Nash/Russo/Sullivan.. when Eric came back with Russo he did not have creative control like he once did..

 

[blusimmons]

i would give it to bischoff cause he will reuse the same storylines untill they fire him. I think tonight is one of these i think they might redebut the horseman with AJ & Beer Money and flair.