Who had it best? Era's main players discussion

[Wald]

Pretty simplistic take on the Era argument, but judging on who were the top guys in relevant eras which set of fans had it best for their main eventers?

Rock n' Wrestling with Hogan and Macho Man
New Generation with Bret and HBK
Attitude with the Rock and Austin
PG Era with Orton and Cena

I'm plumping for Bret and HBK from the New Generation. Overall it was probably the weakest of all eras but those two put on more top matches than probably every other wrestler I can think of combined.

Bret's main event battles with HBK, Diesel, Owen and Austin were all sensational, whilst his feuds with Hakushi, Bulldog, Backlund and others were all very memorable.

HBK has his scraps with Razor, Bret, Undertaker and Mankind to look back on with pride, with feuds with the likes of Diesel and Jarrett being awesome too.

 

[xXxTheDevilGodxXx]

Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock had it best. They were from an era that changed the face of professional wrestling forever. Every era had its advantages though. Austin and Rock had multiple WWF Title runs and the fans never once booed them for it. They were behind them both 100% of the way. The two headlined THREE Wrestlemanias together. Not once did people grow tired of it either, because every time they brought something fresh and new to the table.

Stone Cold's feud with McMahon will go down as one of the greatest rivalries in WWF/WWE history. He was the face of the company, period. He feuded with The Undertaker, Kane, Shawn Michaels, etc. He also won three different Royal Rumble Matches, and won the championship at each event that he headlined. That's an amazing record and there isn't one person who can say otherwise.

The Rock was leading factions and playing a tremendous heel for quite some time. He was in the main event at Wrestlemania twice with Austin and won the Royal Rumble once. He also was apart of the Wrestlemania 16 main event as I recall correctly. Sure, Rock wasn't as well sought after as Austin was during the time, but he won the championship 7 times and the WCW twice, which is something Austin can't say he did.

These two left us so many memories, great promos and were involved in the best storylines at the time. These two helped to define one of the greatest eras in Wrestling history, they had Hall of Fame careers and EVERY ONE of their title wins meant something. I'll never forget when Austin doused the Rock and McMahon with the beer truck. One of my all time favorite moments. Or when Mankind went over on Rock to win his first WWF title. To me, this WAS the era of eras and they had it better than anyone ever has.

 

[SickJames]

This isnt even a debate. Rock and Austin were the kings of the greatest era of all time each dominating a portion of it. Rock and Austin both became bigger than Hogan and Flair in a shorter span of time, and are the two biggest names in the business. Both are the greatest rivals also, being two guys who headlined three Manias and that you could put in the ring for any match, any segment and those two more than any other two wrestlers will bring out the best in each other, make each other, are perfect together, draw big together and simply make magic.

Those two, bar none, are something special.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Yeah, this is a no brainer.

In addition to Austin and Rock, you had a slew of other guys who could legitimately step into the main event picture at any time including Triple H, Kurt Angle, and The Undertaker.

It was just a great time to be watching the WWF product.

 

[Kodo Sawaki]

Yeah, this isnt even a debate when you put it this way.

Rock and Austin had it all at their time. Best feuds and matches, arguably best Wrestlemanias ever(17 and 19), and even most fans behind them because ratings are never gona be that big like then(well partialy because of internet but still...) and never before fans standed behind two superstars in that way as then.

Hogan did good, Bret and HBK did good(although we can argue about that because at HBK primetime the company didnt stand that good) and Cena and Orton do good in terms of success but its nothing compare to Attitude era.

 

[justinept]

Stone Cold Steve Austin and The Rock had it best. They were from an era that changed the face of professional wrestling forever. .

How can you say they changed pro wrestling forever when the change they created is barely visible today? That isn't to knock the impact those two had on their era - or to even discredit their era - but seriously, name one tangible thing in today's wrestling world that resulted from the Attitude Era.

Raw existed before Austin/Rock.
It went live because of Nitro
It used over-runs because of Nitro
It moved to two hours because of Nitro
It moved to three hours after Austin/Rock
SmackDown was created as a response to Thunder
Monthly pay-per views was a response to WCW
TV-MA storylines are no longer used
The edginess of the era no longer exists.

Sure, Austin/Rock were the two stars mainly responsible for helping the WWE win the Monday Night Wars, but the WWE existed before them and it exists after them. That's not exactly a change...

You know what era actually changed wrestling? The 80's Rockin' Wrestling era. They took wrestling from a regional territorial set-up to a national force. They gave us WrestleMania. They gave us pay-per view. They gave us the idea that wrestling could be a part of the pop-culture... that wrestling stars could be household names. It gave us Hogan, Savage and the Warrior - the three most iconic trio of top stars in any era.

I can understand why some would say the Attitude Era. After all, it featured the most former WWE Champions of any era, including Austin, The Rock, The Undertaker, Foley, Angle, Triple H, Kane, the Big Show, Jericho and even Vince McMahon while only Hogan, Savage, Sgt Slaughter and The Ultimate Warrior technically held the title during the Rock 'N Wrestling Era. While some might say that showed the depth the Attitude Era, it should probably be noted that there was a huge difference in the way wrestling was booked during the two eras.

In the 1980's, there wasn't four hours of original programming each week - there weren't 12 pay-per views each year - there wasn't a need to book new champions every other month just to keep things fresh and viewers interested. Think about it like this - During the Rock'n 80's Hulk Hogan held the WWF Title for 1474 consecutive days. Between WrestleMania14 and 18 (1394 days) the WWE/F had 28 title changes, an average reign of 49 days.

Had the 80's used the same formula of championship hot potato, we probably would have seen Roddy Piper, Ted DiBiase, Andre The Giant, Rick Rude, Mr. Perfect and Jake Roberts win the WWF Title at some point. ALL of those guys would've had multiple WWF Title runs during the Attitude Era.

 

[HBKperfect23]

Austin/Rock was an amazing time in wrestling. Nothing can compare to the build they had going into WMX7, and they were both two of the biggest draws ever but I stil have to go with Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart.

Lets not forget who started the attitude era. While Austin was the ring master and Rock was the blue chipper 3rd generation superstar, Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart were reinventing pro wrestling for the 2nd time. They were shooting on each other on live tv almost weekly and really bluring the lines of whats kayfabe and whats real.

HBK and the Hitman were a part of all the eras listed above. They were in the tag division at its hottest time, they reinvented what a main eventer was in the new generation era, and they started the attitude era. Michaels also shined in the PG era and Bret made his return to the show for the ending we all wanted to see.

 

[SickJames]

Austin/Rock was an amazing time in wrestling. Nothing can compare to the build they had going into WMX7, and they were both two of the biggest draws ever but I stil have to go with Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart.

Lets not forget who started the attitude era. While Austin was the ring master and Rock was the blue chipper 3rd generation superstar, Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart were reinventing pro wrestling for the 2nd time. They were shooting on each other on live tv almost weekly and really bluring the lines of whats kayfabe and whats real.

HBK and the Hitman were a part of all the eras listed above. They were in the tag division at its hottest time, they reinvented what a main eventer was in the new generation era, and they started the attitude era. Michaels also shined in the PG era and Bret made his return to the show for the ending we all wanted to see.

Sorry, was with you until you said Bret/HBK. Almost had it right, but aside from that they didnt start The Attitude Era. That era's logo and such wasnt even up yet and wasnt even named or thought about throughout their rivalry. No one screamed Attitude when SS97 was over either.


Austin is the head figure of that era and that era had sparks and I'll give you HBK/Bret as one of them but not the rivalry itself, but the Screwjob more than anything. It just happened to be a personal rivalry for real. Couldve been anywhere on the timeline. Hell even a Savage/Hogan personal rivalry on a real scale doesnt just deem it Attitude and that it started it then or whatever.

And 97 has always been the debated year or lost year but not so lost year.


Anyway the Attitude Era was brought about as a response to WCW dominating in The Monday Night Wars and WWE has gone on record saying this. Well you cant start something as a response through a rivalry that already existed. The quality of Attitude wouldve been present even without Shawn/Bret. It isnt until recently that WWE has been saying this mild stuff about arguably Bret and Mr.McMahon started it and they had even stated on several occassions even in their own publications that it started WrestleMania 14. And Yes 97 had Attitude esque things, but anything has a spark period and some things leading to the birth, it doesnt just BOOM and appear, here ya go a new era. 98 was the birth year, 97 was the transition, just like there was a transitional period after Ruthless Aggression. Hell, Ruthless Aggression was still Attitudish and some ppl are confused that the Attitude Era ended some time in it, often stating false things such as Katie Vick being from that era when it wasnt even close as that great era ended in 2001 after WrestleMania X7 was over.

It was a response and a controlled response can not come about from an uncontrolled personal rivalry that was and wouldve been with or without Attitude

 

[Wolf Pac]

How can you say they changed pro wrestling forever when the change they created is barely visible today? That isn't to knock the impact those two had on their era - or to even discredit their era - but seriously, name one tangible thing in today's wrestling world that resulted from the Attitude Era.

I have to disagree with you here a little bit. There are two huge things that they have changed for professional wrestling forever.

1) Heels & Babyfaces. Take Cena, he's the modern day Hulk Hogan; a role model for kids, wears coloured attire, makes Superman comebacks, but that kind of babyface is no longer cool to the fans anymore, and that's part of the reason why half the world boo & hate Cena. They now love someone who defies & spits in the face of authority, they want rebels to represent them, and that's why they cheer CM Punk, a heel.

2) The fans in general. You see the majority of them going on every day about how PG sucks & the Attitude Era ruled the world, and how they want the Attitude Era back. The AE has changed the fans, they love the edginess, the vulgarity, the naked chicks, and everything that the PG Era can't give us. PG is no longer acceptable to the fans.

Anyway, I guess from this response, it's pretty clear I'm going with Austin & Rock, which was a tough choice for me. Was between Macho & Hulk and Austin & Rock but I went with Austin & Rock cause I believe they drew more electricity from the fans. I've heard bigger pops for them two than Macho & Hulk. I'd give other reasons but I'm tired as hell right now and about to head off to bed, my other reasons are pretty much the same as everybody else who voted for the AE main eventers, so I won't bother typing up the same reasons again, just in different words/sentences.

 

[justinept]

I have to disagree with you here a little bit. There are two huge things that they have changed for professional wrestling forever.

1) Heels & Babyfaces. Take Cena, he's the modern day Hulk Hogan; a role model for kids, wears coloured attire, makes Superman comebacks, but that kind of babyface is no longer cool to the fans anymore, and that's part of the reason why half the world boo & hate Cena. They now love someone who defies & spits in the face of authority, they want rebels to represent them, and that's why they cheer CM Punk, a heel.

2) The fans in general. You see the majority of them going on every day about how PG sucks & the Attitude Era ruled the world, and how they want the Attitude Era back. The AE has changed the fans, they love the edginess, the vulgarity, the naked chicks, and everything that the PG Era can't give us. PG is no longer acceptable to the fans.

You're free to disagree, and I won't bash you for doing so. However, the concept of the "cool" heel came from the NWO, not from Austin or The Rock. Regardless of who it came from though, the fact is that NO ONE in major professional wrestling plays that role anymore. So again, you can't say they changed the game forever. They helped change the game - but once they left, the game went back to being played the same way it was played before they played (that actually makes sense, I promise.)

And to suggest that fans won't stand for the "hero" babyface or PG programming is incorrect. If the fans REALLY wanted to see an anti-authority face or edgy story lines, then Impact would get better ratings and buy rates.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

How can you say they changed pro wrestling forever when the change they created is barely visible today? That isn't to knock the impact those two had on their era - or to even discredit their era - but seriously, name one tangible thing in today's wrestling world that resulted from the Attitude Era.

Raw existed before Austin/Rock.
It went live because of Nitro
It used over-runs because of Nitro
It moved to two hours because of Nitro
It moved to three hours after Austin/Rock
SmackDown was created as a response to Thunder
Monthly pay-per views was a response to WCW
TV-MA storylines are no longer used
The edginess of the era no longer exists.

You say that it did these things "because of Nitro" but if all they had was Savio Vega and Mabel to do it with, we wouldn't be talking about the WWE today. They still need to the talent to draw the audiences; they needed stars who could actually engage them and provide a platform for the WWE to build on. McMahon saw WCW pass him up, and needed to respond, but he would never have surpassed them if he hadn't two dynamic performers in Austin and Rock.

Simply put, McMahon saw the need for those things you listed...Austin and Rock made it actually WORK.

 

[HBKperfect23]

Sorry, was with you until you said Bret/HBK. Almost had it right, but aside from that they didnt start The Attitude Era. That era's logo and such wasnt even up yet and wasnt even named or thought about throughout their rivalry. No one screamed Attitude when SS97 was over either.


Austin is the head figure of that era and that era had sparks and I'll give you HBK/Bret as one of them but not the rivalry itself, but the Screwjob more than anything. It just happened to be a personal rivalry for real. Couldve been anywhere on the timeline. Hell even a Savage/Hogan personal rivalry on a real scale doesnt just deem it Attitude and that it started it then or whatever.

And 97 has always been the debated year or lost year but not so lost year.


Anyway the Attitude Era was brought about as a response to WCW dominating in The Monday Night Wars and WWE has gone on record saying this. Well you cant start something as a response through a rivalry that already existed. The quality of Attitude wouldve been present even without Shawn/Bret. It isnt until recently that WWE has been saying this mild stuff about arguably Bret and Mr.McMahon started it and they had even stated on several occassions even in their own publications that it started WrestleMania 14. And Yes 97 had Attitude esque things, but anything has a spark period and some things leading to the birth, it doesnt just BOOM and appear, here ya go a new era. 98 was the birth year, 97 was the transition, just like there was a transitional period after Ruthless Aggression. Hell, Ruthless Aggression was still Attitudish and some ppl are confused that the Attitude Era ended some time in it, often stating false things such as Katie Vick being from that era when it wasnt even close as that great era ended in 2001 after WrestleMania X7 was over.

It was a response and a controlled response can not come about from an uncontrolled personal rivalry that was and wouldve been with or without Attitude

First, Austin was undoubtably the star of the attitude era, I wasn't trying to say that. Its debatable of when the attitude era started and ended. Now 1997 wasnt the official start of the attitude era but they planted the seed for sure. Im going back to around WM13 way before the screwjob. Look at Brets character, throwing McMahon down and cursing at the crowd. Look at Shawns character, just about everything he did helped plant the seed for the attitude era. Even look at Austin in the summer of 97.

As I reread your post I think we are saying the same thing. 1997 wouldnt technically be considered the attitude era but it had a lot of "attitudish" qualitys. If you want to get really technical on when McMahon decided they were going in that direction, it was after Shawn was fined for stuffing gauze down his shorts and jumping around in JRs face. After disucussing the direction of the company, Vince took back the fine and said were going there. This was in Sept/Oct 1997.

And I wont say your answer of Austin/Rock is wrong. I think what I personally enjoyed helped sway my vote. I think Hogan/Savage, Bret/Shawn, adn Austin/Rock are all acceptable answers. 88,92,97,98,01 were my favorite times in wrestling.

 

[SickJames]

First, Austin was undoubtably the star of the attitude era, I wasn't trying to say that. Its debatable of when the attitude era started and ended. Now 1997 wasnt the official start of the attitude era but they planted the seed for sure. Im going back to around WM13 way before the screwjob. Look at Brets character, throwing McMahon down and cursing at the crowd. Look at Shawns character, just about everything he did helped plant the seed for the attitude era. Even look at Austin in the summer of 97.

As I reread your post I think we are saying the same thing. 1997 wouldnt technically be considered the attitude era but it had a lot of "attitudish" qualitys. If you want to get really technical on when McMahon decided they were going in that direction, it was after Shawn was fined for stuffing gauze down his shorts and jumping around in JRs face. After disucussing the direction of the company, Vince took back the fine and said were going there. This was in Sept/Oct 1997.

And I wont say your answer of Austin/Rock is wrong. I think what I personally enjoyed helped sway my vote. I think Hogan/Savage, Bret/Shawn, adn Austin/Rock are all acceptable answers. 88,92,97,98,01 were my favorite times in wrestling.

Yeah, we're on the same page on the year 97; I'll always see it as pre-Attitude year, the very important year that sparked it all

 

[Wolf Pac]

You're free to disagree, and I won't bash you for doing so. However, the concept of the "cool" heel came from the NWO, not from Austin or The Rock. Regardless of who it came from though, the fact is that NO ONE in major professional wrestling plays that role anymore. So again, you can't say they changed the game forever. They helped change the game - but once they left, the game went back to being played the same way it was played before they played (that actually makes sense, I promise.)

And to suggest that fans won't stand for the "hero" babyface or PG programming is incorrect. If the fans REALLY wanted to see an anti-authority face or edgy story lines, then Impact would get better ratings and buy rates.

The concept of the cool heel may have debuted with the nWo but it will always be assosciated with Austin too, if not more with Austin than the nWo since he took it to a higher level with the vulgar language, middle fingers & beer drinking. And there is somebody who plays the role of the cool heel today, CM Punk.

Not really. The same majority of fans who bitch about Cena & the PG programming are the same majority of fans that don't care for & hate TNA.

 

[HBsam31]

I think people are grossly underestimating Hogan and Savage here. Hogan along with Vince took wrestling from a territory based system to the global phenomenon that it is today. I think the thread is asking which fans had it best, and that means to me which fans were entertained the most due to their main eventers. That being said it would be a close race between Macho and Hogan and Austin Rock. Hogan got consistent crazy pops. Fans ate him up during that time. Event though I think highly of Hogan and Savage I still think the nod has to go to Austin Rock. They were selling out arenas left and right and they brought in so many new fans it was unreal. We were constantly entertained by what Rock and Austin did, and unlike the 80's the fans got to see way more of the top stars in the 90's. We as fans were almost spoiled at the amount of tv time the top draws got. It wasn't like that with Hogan and Savage as really the only time you got to see them was on PPV. This was a very interesting thread, but I think some misinterpreted what the thread was asking.

 

[theBec2101]

the stats alone tell you who had it better. No one has made more money for the business other then Austin. The era ratings were through the roof, they had better competition that they were going against.