Which will be the better talent farm? ECW or NXT?

[Mighty NorCal]

So the main concepts of both shows was to introduce new talent, get them marginially over, and launch them onto one of the big shows. So my question, albeit a bit premature (thats how I get down, ask the ladies) which brand concept will produce the best talent for the WWE?

ECW Alum

Jack Swagger
Kofi Kingston
CM Punk
Miz
John Morrison
Sheamus

NXT

Bryan Danielson
Skip Sheffeild
Wade Barrett
Heath Slater
Dave Otunga
Justin Gabriel

I see three world champions, and three future world champions on the first list. Not sure I see that on the second list. I know the NXT guys have just started out, and anything can happen, but I think this furthermore reenforce what a stupid waste of time and energy NXT was. They get the same ratings, NXT is far more shit, and none of the guys save for two look to have any sort of serious ME potential.

Not only was ECW a far better show, it did a better job producing talent.

What do you guys think, and how do you think the score will look in the end? And why do you think the brand you picked was able to develp talent better than the opposition?

 

[D-Man]

No doubt in my mind that ECW will breed a much better future for the WWE.

I will admit that NXT has some pretty decent talent, but you can't possibly compare those stars with guys like Jack Swagger, Sheamus, Kofi, Punk, etc... I understand that my opinion is very premature, but that's the point of this thread, right?

There is no need for me to explain why the ECW Alumni are going to be successful, considering that the majority of Norcal's list consists of successful former and current champions. The way I see it, in order to truly see what we can expect from NXT, we need to break down their talent list. So, here goes:

NXT

Bryan Danielson
Most likely will hold a few midcard championships, but I cannot see him becoming anymore more. His lack of size and catchy gimmick will hurt him in the long run. Unless the WWE can find a really great gimmick for him to compensate for his physical inadequacies, I think he'll always be stuck in midcard hell, putting on the occasional good main event match that he'll be on the losing end of.

Skip Sheffield
I must admit, at first glance, this guy really impresses me. He's a large, muscular athlete with all of the cosmetic tools necessary to be a main event player in the eyes of Vince McMahon. His gimmick is pure shit right now, but there are SO many other different things the WWE can do with a man that is as large as Sheffield with his unique agility. Not to mention that his finisher is quite impressive. I can see him being a player in the main event scene, down the road. He may not be on the winning end of a title, but he'll be a contender for sure.

Wade Barrett
This guy oozes main event 100,000 times over. He is a very large man, is in great shape, is very skilled in the ring, has a believable finisher, and his mic skills are the best out of the rookies of NXT. This guy is a glorified main eventer, and I've been excited about his future ever since he began cutting promos on NXT. Keep and eye on him.

Heath Slater
I just don't get this guy's appeal. He wears more baby oil than any wrestler I've seen for years, has man-boobs, a really stale gimmick, and has very weak mic skills. His best assets are what he does in the ring. The guy is a very good wrestler for a man of his size. Plus, he makes his opponents look like pure gold. However, unless he can bring the rest of the elements together, he'll never make it past the midcard.

Dave Otunga
No matter how much you're all going to hate it, this guy WILL be a world champion if he sticks around for long enough. Yeah, he's shitty in the ring. Yeah, he needs work on the microphone. But you cannot deny this guy's near-perfect look, natural heel-attitude, and the fact that he's more famous outside of the WWE than inside. The WWE definitely plans utilizing his pop-mainstream notoriety and his marriage to spread the WWE further into mainstream entertainment.

Justin Gabriel
Say hello to the next Evan Bourne. A young, good-looking, high-flying wrestler with dogshit mic skills and a gimmick that revolves around his finishing move when it should be revolved around the personality that he's obviously lacking. It's a shame, too... in today's wrestling world, it doesn't mater how good-looking you are. Unless you're either well above par with your mic skills, over 6'5" and chiseled, or have something truly unique about you, in-ring skills and high-flying moves will truly get you nowhere. That is, unless he can build some kind of freakish cult following like Jeff Hardy and Rey Mysterio have done. But let's face it, can Gabriel really make this happen? Doubtful.

Michael Tarver (Norcal forgot about him... for obvious reasons.)
Like I said in the parentheses above, this guy is just a forgotten soul that hasn't shown us DICK since day one. He possesses some decent mic skills, but unless he can pull another attribute together to go along with his gift of gab, he's going to be nothing but a horrific jobber.


So there you have it. Out of the seven rookies in NXT, you have three possible world champions (one being a long-shot) and three others that will never go further than a midcard title. On the other hand, ECW has produced nothing but champions... three world champs and three MULTIPLE title holders. It's no contest... ECW is superior.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

A part I just edited into the Op, is why these differences exist....


Il tell you why. Becuase when people participated on ECW, they were on a real wrestling show, just like they would be on RAW, SD, or a PPV. Storylines, acting, range of emotion, promos, getting into character. There is SO little of that on NXT, I dont understand how they will get these guys remotely seasoned or over enough to be anything noticeable or legit when they cross over.

Jack Swagger went to RAW, and it was a huge deal. Sheamus destroyed the roster on RAW when he showed up. These guys were ready, over, and had a well practiced and established character.

Thats not going to happen by climbing on fucking monkey bars.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

I believe that ECW was the better talent farm. Specifically because it doesnt feel so...bland. Youve got guys carrying kegs and running in NXT. Then you had progressing storyline feuds, wrestling matches, promos, and character progression on ECW. I'll take ECW thank you. You had the perfect mix on that show. On NXT it's basically..."Oooh! Look at me, look at me! I can carry a keg." It doesnt showcase the talent the way they should be. NXT will go down the route of Tough Enough. One ore two may look like they have a future. Then the rest will be forgotten about.

 

[Daniel]

NXT and ECW are two completely different animals. ECW was a brand, with a championship and superstars who could be drafted. NXT is not a brand. NXT is essentially a 17 week series to get developmental talent over before putting them on the main roster.

NXT will go down the route of Tough Enough. One ore two may look like they have a future. Then the rest will be forgotten about.

Every one of the NXT rookies will get their chance on Raw or Smackdown. Unlike in Tough Enough, they are already signed to WWE so Vince and others clearly see potential in them as the future. Like I said, it's a way of introducing 8 new wrestlers at once.

I think it's worth mentioning that it was the reality show Tough Enough which launched The Miz and John Morrison, not ECW. To answer your question however, at the moment it seems to be ECW. But that is only because it was a brand, not a mock reality show like NXT. In a couple of years when Barrett, Otunga, Danielson, Slater, Gabriel, Sheffield and Young (yes, Young!) have been champions opinions may change.

 

[Ferbian]

I'm gonna go with ECW, due to the fact that those guy's you list Norcal who has come out of ECW, has actually gone on to become something, while the guy's of NXT if we're to follow the concept, will most likely be nowhere, as opposed to just the winner who will be going somewhere, but that's about it.

The time ECW had the chance to produce superstars through their programmings as opposed to the length it will take for NXT to produce the exact same star power, and still won't be able to produce it in the same ways, due to the fact that ECW was perhaps a better programming, due to the lack of proper competitiveness that NXT has brought with itself as of late, as opposed to ECW which was a legitimate roster of people feuding and trying to make a name for themselves to go after the ECW championship.

NXT will certainly produce stars, I'm not saying that, but I think it's quite obvious true feuds and fighting for a championship, is the key way to getting over, rather than winning a game show where you learn the gimmicks that the wrestlers hide behind, rather than getting to watch them in feuds where they could properly excel.

NXT is just fine, I'm not saying that, but ECW was the better talent producer.

 

[Monkey_Mania]

NXT and ECW are two completely different animals. ECW was a brand, with a championship and superstars who could be drafted. NXT is not a brand. NXT is essentially a 17 week series to get developmental talent over before putting them on the main roster.



Every one of the NXT rookies will get their chance on Raw or Smackdown. Unlike in Tough Enough, they are already signed to WWE so Vince and others clearly see potential in them as the future. Like I said, it's a way of introducing 8 new wrestlers at once.

I think it's worth mentioning that it was the reality show Tough Enough which launched The Miz and John Morrison, not ECW. To answer your question however, at the moment it seems to be ECW. But that is only because it was a brand, not a mock reality show like NXT. In a couple of years when Barrett, Otunga, Danielson, Slater, Gabriel, Sheffield and Young (yes, Young!) have been champions opinions may change.

I fucking know that already numb nuts. I simply meant that only one or two of them (Otunga and Barrett) had any real main event potential. Unlike ECW which has launched many stars into the Main Event Scene and possible future World Champions. Well maybe Danielson has a shot too. Doubtful though.

 

[Ruthless-RKO]

Morrison and Miz shouldn't be on ECW list, they wer on Smackdown before that...but the thing is, the comparison is unfair..When you look at ECW alumni, your looking at guys who are now doing something in the "E", holding titles(Sheamus, Swagger), and in big feuds, when you look at NXT, your looking at talent from FCW, and it can't be fair comparison, when you look back at this thread in a year time, you might just say NXT produced better talent...because NXT talent isn't doing anything right now, they have just started...
In a year you might have guys like Bryan Danielson, Wade Barrett, Dave Otunga having US title reigns or getting pushed...So my opinion is, tom compare now, is unfair to the NXT talent...Look back at this thread in a year time and then make the decision..

 

[Da Prophet]

ECW was far better.I watched it and enjoyed it to.ECW pushed Punk to the Main Event and Sheamus who is getting better.Morrison shouldn't be there cause of being on Raw and he was already a former IC Champion and Tag Team Champion.It did help Miz alot, he is better than ever and is the current United States Champion.ECW put guys into matchs and by giving them those matchs with guys like Regal,Goldust who have been in wrestling for heaps it tought them how to work.

NXT will have future champions.Barrett is az future Champ IMO.He has a look of a heel and his body is built like a wrestler to.Then you get the other guys who have a chance, Otunga he has chramisa and can have an ok match.Those tow will been on Smackdown or Raw when NXT is over.It's down to them to win it.

So ECW was better for making stars at this point in time.Maybe in the future NXt will have more world champions then those from ECW.

 

[TLC]

It's not fair to judge at this point as NXT has only been around for what? 3 months. It takes a lot longer than that for me to judge who will and who won't win the big one or have success in the WWE. Some of these guys may have untapped potential and could do big things in their future.

I'm sure Barrett, Otunga, Young and Danielson will have good career's. Barrett is the best all around rookie, Otunga has the charisma and the star power already, Young has a great look if he cuts his hair and is quite good in the ring and Danielson is fantastic and it seems like they're pushing him.

Those guys you named Norcal happened if different years, you failed to name the failed superstars whom was on ECW, such superstars as...

Mike Knox, he started out on ECW got moved to Raw and buried, then Smackdown and was a jobber then released.

Colin Delaney, I can't remember much about him except he was skinnier than Danielson and shitter in the ring. He lost to Estrada and was used as a jobber most of his Career, he got turned heel then released.

Kevin Thorn, started out back in 2006. Had a crappy vampire gimmick and was only decent because Ariel had big tits, he was pretty shitty and didn't do much. Although he started out on Smackdown, he didn't really do much. After he had a gimmick change once again he was released.

Evan Bourne, now I know he is still with the company and getting wins over Zack Ryder (Huge I know) he is still in the lower card and will likely be there for all of his career. Shame he didn't say on ECW as he was meant to be ECW champion but alas didn't happen and I wouldn't be suprised if he was released soon enough.

I could keep on going with names that have failed whilst starting off on ECW but I think you get the point. Whilst ECW has had some gems in Sheamus, Kofi Kingston and others, they still had a majority of failed superstars just like NXT may have. I'm sure when NXT has some more seasons, if they have more then we may see some great superstars come off it.

 

[MisterRob]

It's far, far too to early make an opinion, especially to claim ECW was the better source of talent then NXT. This is the very first NXT, it has no history and no track record to go by and the talents have only been seen by the greater WWE audience for how long? People are suddenly claiming ECW's the better brand when ECW wasn't even overly successful. When Morrison and Miz were on Tough Enough did people see tons of potential in them and know what their future was? Definitely not. Miz was never seen as anything at all until just recently, this YEAR. He's been around for years now and no one ever saw anything in him in his first few years in WWE.. and yet suddenly people are clairvoyant and know a star by first glance when they've barely had time to develop or prove themselves at all. Morrison and Miz were not products of ECW, Morrison definitely was developed on RAW and Smackdown before that.

CM Punk was a talent of ECW, no doubt, and he's been successful. Jack Swagger has had his highs and his lows, but he's now a World champion and his future's looking bright. Sheamus, not long ago, was being bashed and scolded by the IWC for being pushed too fast and not being viewed as having IT or deserving of his spot, and now suddenly he's a success and used to make some point that's not even a point? What about all of the talents that were on ECW that never made it? All those talents that floundered and are now forgotten? Every one of the talents on NXT could possibly be in WWE long term and have some sort of success, large or small, so wouldn't that make NXT have more potential then ECW where talents failed along with the brand by the end of it's existence? This is only the FIRST season of NXT.

ECW made CM Punk, Swagger, Sheamus, Kofi Kingston and Evan Bourne as well. NXT has the potential to introduce eight talents that all could have a career in the WWE, as well as NXT is a unique and interesting format that in my opinion is better then ECW because it's different and not just another C level brand with the same stuff as the other two shows. Yes NXT has it's flaws, and it has it's kinks, but there's also a great deal of good when it comes to NXT.. the interactions between pros and rookies, the variety of matches, and just look at the unique way they've been able to build and introduce talents like Bryan Danielson. I would've actually preferred to have seen CM Punk, Swagger, Kofi and Sheamus introduced and first developed on a stage like NXT rather then the way they were in ECW and I think the possibilities of how that would've gone are more interesting then their runs on ECW.

Still, it's far too premature to even assume which is better.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I fucking knew I was going to get stupid ass replies like this.

Hey, I am pretty sure it says "which WILL BE the better talent farm" idicating, oh, I don't know THE FUCKING FUTURE. I am pretttyyy sure I also said in the OP that I understand its premature, and for people to make an evaluation as far as they could.

So stop being douchenozzles, and just make a fucking evaluation. Obviously, this comes from various standpoints of how the show is run as opposed to how ECW was, the success of either shows, and the ceilings of the kinds of guys they are bringing them along, in the WAYS they are bringing them along. Clearly, the way ECW went about things was far more beneficial, and would have gone much farther for guys like Otunga and Barrett. Both guys would have easily been the main features of an actual wrestling show for a couple months at a time, instead of guzzling soda and being interrupted by Matt Striker during their promos.

 

[MisterRob]

Hey, I am pretty sure it says "which WILL BE the better talent farm" idicating, oh, I don't know THE FUCKING FUTURE. I am pretttyyy sure I also said in the OP that I understand its premature, and for people to make an evaluation as far as they could.

Hey, I am pretty sure saying "which WILL BE the better talent farm" is a question that can't possibly be answered because no one has the ability to predict the future. There's countless factors that can effect the future of NXT and it's talents and how each one turns out, factors that no one can credibly predict before hand. And I'm pretty sure people have all been making evaluations and voicing their opinions as additions onto "it's too premature to even guess".

So stop being douchenozzles, and just make a fucking evaluation.

Read people's posts beyond the one or two lines they commented about how premature it is to even make a guess.

Obviously, this comes from various standpoints of how the show is run as opposed to how ECW was, the success of either shows, and the ceilings of the kinds of guys they are bringing them along, in the WAYS they are bringing them along. Clearly, the way ECW went about things was far more beneficial, and would have gone much farther for guys like Otunga and Barrett. Both guys would have easily been the main features of an actual wrestling show for a couple months at a time, instead of guzzling soda and being interrupted by Matt Striker during their promos.

NXT has been around how long? A few months? I find it hard to believe people can gauge how the talents are being brought in or developed after two months or so of being seen on television in comparison to years of looking back at ECW. But I would like to know why the way ECW went about things is so much more beneficial then the way NXT is, so please enlighten me. Is it because the talents actually got to perform in matches in ECW? Well, they do in NXT too.. against fellow rookies like the ECW roster did, and against experienced veterans like the ECW roster also had. Was it because they developed characters on ECW and feuds? Well, they're doing the same thing on NXT.. and in fact all of the talents on NXT are getting a lot more focus then they probably would've on a weekly ECW show, because they're interacting several times in several different ways on a given NXT show instead of sometimes only having one segment on an ECW show. I feel like you're grasping at just small portions of NXT and leaving out other portions entirely in your argument, as you seemed to do with your above post in reference to other posters.

 

[The Scarred One]

Like many people have said before: it's too soon to start saying that ECW was a better farm league than NXT.

People have already stated how ECW has produced World Champions in Swagger, Sheamus and Punk and future World Champions in Morrison, Miz and Kingston. But Morrison and Miz already got their starts before ECW but it was by being on ECW that elevated them. But despite these select few, ECW had just as many failures as it did successes. Examples include Mike Knox, Kevin Thorn, Colin Delaney, DJ Gabriel, Ricky Ortiz and Braden Walker while there is still hope for guys like Zack Ryder, Yoshi Tatsu, Evan Bourne and the Dudebusters.

NXT on the other hand has only been around for about three months, which is different compared to the more than three years ECW had. Looking at the first and second seasons, it's apparent that these guys have the potential for successful futures such as Bryan, Barrett and Otunga. The WWE wouldn't have put them on the show if they didn't think so. Give the guys on NXT time to establish themselves on either RAW or SmackDown before making a decision. Who knows, the WWE might surprise us.

Besides, doesn't anyone else agree that it's better for these guys to get introduced on a reality type show like NXT and improve their skills with the help from established WWE Superstars than to just all of a sudden debut on either RAW or SmackDown, much like Scotty Goldman (aka Colt Cabana of Ring of Honor) and Braden Walker (aka Chris Harris of TNA), only to flounder and lose their jobs just weeks later?

 

[Bobby B]

I think the comparison is interesting, in the sense that ECW essentially tried to mimic Raw and Smackdown with storylines, a title belt, PPV matches etc... Whereas NXT is much more structured.

Personally, I really like the NXT format (not saying I didn't like ECW though). It gives 8 people a fair platform. We get a look at them equally over a number of weeks, and get a great representation of their in ring skills and mic skills - without having to come in and job to bigger stars like may have already happened.

I know wrestling purists may disagree with me, but I don't actually mind the keg carrying/other tasks. I think it'd be a little dull if every week was just matches and mic talking (might work for a few weeks, but would become very limited after a while).

I think NXT is very good for creative too. The rookies get a chance to demonstrate their character - and the crowd get a chance to react to it.

Personally, I prefer NXT as a "talent farm" compared to ECW. ECW had it's advantages - a main belt, the oppertunity to wrestle pros on a weekly basis (more sporadic on NXT), and they were invovled in fueds.

But for me NXT is better because it gives new talent a place to showcase their talent in a sandbox type environment, and it's less restricted by fueds (where creative get to influence who's dominant in the storylines).

I can't wait to see where each of these talents will drop into Raw and Smackdown. Desparate for them to bring back the Cruiserweight title now - Gabriel, Slater - could kick start that division.

 

[darbare]

good thread.....its hard to really tell whether ECW or NXT is better based on the fact that we havent seen how the NXT guys would do on RAW or Smackdown....give them a few months and maybe even wait after season 2 then we can tell but not now....it really wouldnt be fair to tell because ECW has produced and/or seasoned the following:

The Hart Dynasty- current Unified tag champs, very over right now

Evan Bourne- was just in the main event on RAW, very popular

Ezekiel Jackson- got better with Regal and was last ECW champion

John Morrison- gave him this gimmick instead of the awful gimmick that was Johnny Nitro

The Miz- big time heel now....everyone hates him, and was the first to hold unified tag title and united states title

Mark Henry- helped him get over immensely and showed his dominance

Sheamus- first Irish champ in the first year of being in the company

Yoshi tatsu- gave him a platform....very popular with the audience

Zack Ryder- broke out as singles star and actually has stuff to do on RAW

Croft & Barreta- introduced us to a new tag team that has potential

CM Punk- introduced us to him....you know the rest

Christian- reintroduced us to Captain Charisma and was a dominating champ

Jack Swagger- current world champ

Kofi Kingston- current IC champ

Rosa Mendes- allowed her to not wrestle, so when she was drafted she would be better, and she is

Tiffany- popular, and pretty damn hot

Big Show- showed a dominant side to him we never knew


by this list its not fair to compare when you cant compare the talent yet:

Wade Barrett- hopefully a future world champ

David Otunga- possibly world champ, just needs more in ring work

Daniel Bryan- has a good future on any show as an upper carder....possibly the next Chris Benoit type character they have

Darren Young- needs a complete overhaul

Michael Tarver- has potential if he gets better and unique in the ring...almost reminds me of a young Booker T

Heath Slater- I dont understand the appeal but whatever

Justin Gabriel- fits perfectly on the roster....could be the Evan Bourne of Smackdown or even in a tag team with Matt Hardy

Skip Sheffield- needs overhaul and name change....has potential though if he gets serious