Zigglers reign or lesnar reign which reign will add the most prestige. Each reign is going different approaches. Zigglers is defending a lot as Shown by past 2 weeks when he defended 3 times. While lesnar reign will most likely won't go through more than 4 defenses. I hear a lot of people complaining and saying that both ways will add prestige. But the question is which way will add the most? *please do not incorporate any personal feelings about the 2 wrestlers and only consider their title reigns.
Which reign will add the most prestige
- Thread starter GOOZEKING
- Start date
I think it's 6 of one half dozen of the other here. Both belts are viewed differently by fan everywhere. Naturally the WWE Championship belt is always seen in a different light, because the person holding it is supposed to be the best there is. The IC belt as I see it is a stepping stone to the WWE belt. meaning whoever holds it, should be considered for the main event at some point. Sooner rather than later.
With the continued absence of Lesnar on our TV screens, the WWE has no choice right now to showcase the other two titles, IC and US. They have to give the fans something for their money. Maybe it's a good thing and maybe it isn't, as both belts have sort of been buried the last few years.
Myself I think Ziggler is doing a find job of defending his title. He outperforms most of the card each week, and his feud with the Miz has been running a close second to the Ambrose/Rollins feud. That might be because of the two wrestlers involved who have been putting on good matches.
Lesnar we've only seen defend the title once since he won it, and he almost got pinned in that title defense. Now they've apparently decided to take him off the air until the Rumble, so we won't see it defended until then.
So I guess by process of elimination, I would have to say Ziggler is going a much better job at the present time. Mind you that could change depending on how the booking goes, and if they bring Lesnar back. There is more than enough main event guys around to challenge him for it. But until that happens I'll watch Ziggler putting on one hell of show for us.
With the continued absence of Lesnar on our TV screens, the WWE has no choice right now to showcase the other two titles, IC and US. They have to give the fans something for their money. Maybe it's a good thing and maybe it isn't, as both belts have sort of been buried the last few years.
Myself I think Ziggler is doing a find job of defending his title. He outperforms most of the card each week, and his feud with the Miz has been running a close second to the Ambrose/Rollins feud. That might be because of the two wrestlers involved who have been putting on good matches.
Lesnar we've only seen defend the title once since he won it, and he almost got pinned in that title defense. Now they've apparently decided to take him off the air until the Rumble, so we won't see it defended until then.
So I guess by process of elimination, I would have to say Ziggler is going a much better job at the present time. Mind you that could change depending on how the booking goes, and if they bring Lesnar back. There is more than enough main event guys around to challenge him for it. But until that happens I'll watch Ziggler putting on one hell of show for us.
Jack-Hammer
YOU WILL RESPECT MY AUTHORITAH!!!!
Generally speaking, the WWE World Heavyweight Championship is as prestigious as a wrestling championship can be. Like any title in any wrestling organization at any given time, it's subject to dissatisfaction from some fans due to one factor or another. However, when it's all said & done, the relevance of the title and the position it holds in WWE and wrestling in general can't really be denied unless you're just someone flat out determined to hate WWE regardless.
Brock Lesnar's current run with the title will be met with supporters and detractors, business as usual, but his will generate more controversy among fans than most. If various reports are accurate, Brock Lesnar won't be defending the title until the Royal Rumble in January, which is rubbing some people the wrong way, myself included. The real reason I'm against it has a lot to do with tradition and the simple fact that it's not at all what American wrestling fans are used to as it pertains to watching wrestling on TV. While it's common on the indie scene and in Japan for champions to only defend titles every 3, 4, 5 months or more, it's not common for those who've watched WCCW, Mid-Atlantic/WCW, WWE and TNA over the years & decades. The most recent instance we've seen of that was Dean Ambrose in that he held the WWE United States Championship for almost a full year and defended it...what, maybe a total of 3 or 4 times on TV and ppv events combined? WWE management got crapped all over for that. At the same time, an argument can be made that this is a novelty that adds another element of interest to Brock Lesnar's run along other elements. Nobody really knows for sure when Lesnar's run will end or who'll be the one to do it. We have assumptions and guesses, but event those are up in the air when you consider the situation. Roman Reigns will likely be out the rest of the year and reports have pegged him as the one who'd face Lesnar for the strap at WrestleMania XXXI. Daniel Bryan could possibly be back at any given time, but reports suggest he'll be back in time for the Royal Rumble, which means he & Reigns will be coming back around the same time. Even though Reigns allegedly is the guy, there's also Daniel Bryan's immense popularity and rapport with fans to consider. If Bryan's still as over as ever when he returns, it's not at all impossible for fans to embrace him and rally behind him just as they did during WrestleMania season this year. Could Cena get himself another shot at The Beast come WrestleMania XXXI? There was talk shortly after WrestleMania XXX of possibly doing a feud between Lesnar and Cesaro at some point, so could that happen? With Reigns on the shelf and simply not being anywhere near as strong, overall, as Dean Ambrose, could Ambrose be elevated to that spot? There's a lot of intrigue right now surrounding the title picture and that, along with the climax and outcome of the whole situation MIGHT make up for the lack of defenses in the long run.
There are reports that with Lesnar being absent, more focus will be put on the mid-card titles. Whether it happens that way or not remains to be seen, though I do have to say that there's been a general increase in how important the IC title feels. For instance, the title's been defended 3 or 4 times since Night of Champions. While that'll definitely slow down, the main issues will be to give the title a sense of stability that's been lacking since Bad News Barrett had to vacate it. Hot potato runs irritate the snot out of me, so doing away with that is a good start. Also, Dolph Ziggler's pretty over, he has a lot of energy, he's among the top in-ring guys on the roster and he has the capability of delivering strong promos.
Right now, there's just too much uncertainty and doubt surrounding the Intercontinental Championship. Vince could lose interest by tonight and have the title put back on Miz or someone else entirely, so I think the likeliest outcome is that Lesnar's run will ultimately wind up adding more to the WWE WHC than Ziggler's run will with the IC title, at least as of right now.
Brock Lesnar's current run with the title will be met with supporters and detractors, business as usual, but his will generate more controversy among fans than most. If various reports are accurate, Brock Lesnar won't be defending the title until the Royal Rumble in January, which is rubbing some people the wrong way, myself included. The real reason I'm against it has a lot to do with tradition and the simple fact that it's not at all what American wrestling fans are used to as it pertains to watching wrestling on TV. While it's common on the indie scene and in Japan for champions to only defend titles every 3, 4, 5 months or more, it's not common for those who've watched WCCW, Mid-Atlantic/WCW, WWE and TNA over the years & decades. The most recent instance we've seen of that was Dean Ambrose in that he held the WWE United States Championship for almost a full year and defended it...what, maybe a total of 3 or 4 times on TV and ppv events combined? WWE management got crapped all over for that. At the same time, an argument can be made that this is a novelty that adds another element of interest to Brock Lesnar's run along other elements. Nobody really knows for sure when Lesnar's run will end or who'll be the one to do it. We have assumptions and guesses, but event those are up in the air when you consider the situation. Roman Reigns will likely be out the rest of the year and reports have pegged him as the one who'd face Lesnar for the strap at WrestleMania XXXI. Daniel Bryan could possibly be back at any given time, but reports suggest he'll be back in time for the Royal Rumble, which means he & Reigns will be coming back around the same time. Even though Reigns allegedly is the guy, there's also Daniel Bryan's immense popularity and rapport with fans to consider. If Bryan's still as over as ever when he returns, it's not at all impossible for fans to embrace him and rally behind him just as they did during WrestleMania season this year. Could Cena get himself another shot at The Beast come WrestleMania XXXI? There was talk shortly after WrestleMania XXX of possibly doing a feud between Lesnar and Cesaro at some point, so could that happen? With Reigns on the shelf and simply not being anywhere near as strong, overall, as Dean Ambrose, could Ambrose be elevated to that spot? There's a lot of intrigue right now surrounding the title picture and that, along with the climax and outcome of the whole situation MIGHT make up for the lack of defenses in the long run.
There are reports that with Lesnar being absent, more focus will be put on the mid-card titles. Whether it happens that way or not remains to be seen, though I do have to say that there's been a general increase in how important the IC title feels. For instance, the title's been defended 3 or 4 times since Night of Champions. While that'll definitely slow down, the main issues will be to give the title a sense of stability that's been lacking since Bad News Barrett had to vacate it. Hot potato runs irritate the snot out of me, so doing away with that is a good start. Also, Dolph Ziggler's pretty over, he has a lot of energy, he's among the top in-ring guys on the roster and he has the capability of delivering strong promos.
Right now, there's just too much uncertainty and doubt surrounding the Intercontinental Championship. Vince could lose interest by tonight and have the title put back on Miz or someone else entirely, so I think the likeliest outcome is that Lesnar's run will ultimately wind up adding more to the WWE WHC than Ziggler's run will with the IC title, at least as of right now.
It depends on how long each reign lasts, how many times the titles will be defended, and how good the feuds are. If Lesnar is not going to be defending the World Heavyweight Championship for the rest of 2012 as the rumor says, then by default I automatically will say Ziggler's will add more prestige. Not defending a title is never a good thing, especially when that title is the only one currently getting the attention it deserves. I don't care if Lesnar never shows up for the entire PPV cycle outside of the PPV itself, at least he'd still be defending the belt. WWE can't not have World Championship matches on PPV's. The show would be incomplete without one and it would badly damage the prestige of the world title as well as the show itself. Lesnar's reign will add more prestige if we are only talking up until today. If they both last many months from today it's Dolph easily if he defends monthly but Lesnar does not.
Ric 'The Nature Boy' Flair
#PUSHCESARO
WWE needs to give this guy a repackage. Maybe a few months off. Then make him return and improve with a new gimmick. I personally think this one is stupid. On a related note, CM PUNK!
I think technically, Ziggler's reign will add more prestige. Only because the IC title meant nothing a few months ago, while the WWE Title has been pretty meaningful for a while. I mean, the WWE Championship has always been prestigious and mean something. Sure, Brock's reign might make it a little more valuable. Maybe Brock is taking the title from an 9 and a half to a ten. Dolph is taking the IC title from like a 6 to an 8 or so. You get the metaphor. Dolph's run will add more prestige, only because it has more ground to cover. There's not really any prestige for Brock to add.
Aeon Mathix
Has Ascended
It will probably just continue a trend of playing hot potato in regards to the midcard titles. The problem lies within the feud at the time. Between Ziggler and Miz it was never really about the Intercontinental Championship. It's never really mentioned by either guy how much the title means to them or what they are willing to do in order to get it. I know either Ziggler or Miz (can't remember) won a battle royal to become number one contender to it, but after that it's just like they have been fighting with no clear purpose other than to trade the title. It looks like more of a prop than usual.
It is very simple. Make the title look valuable and play that into the storyline. After Brock destroyed Cena at Summerslam, Cena's mindset was to get revenge and prove that he can take Lesnar with the WWE World Heavyweight Title taking a backseat to the feud. All of the feuds seem too personal and not really championship related anymore. If Rusev is next in line to feud with Sheamus over the United States Championship that story writes itself. Rusev wants to give a big slap in the face to America by winning the United States Championship. There he has a clear cut goal and that is the title and nothing else and he doesn't care who he has to go through to get it.
The simple fact is, make the wrestlers WANT the title. Have one say I am going to win this championship, win a number one contenders match and have the title be the sole focus. Don't throw two wrestlers who are feuding anyway into a title program with them just being focused on destroying each other and the title being a consolation prize. Give us a reason to care about the wrestler chasing the title like Daniel Bryan did on the Road to Wrestlemania and the title becomes that much more prestigous.
It is very simple. Make the title look valuable and play that into the storyline. After Brock destroyed Cena at Summerslam, Cena's mindset was to get revenge and prove that he can take Lesnar with the WWE World Heavyweight Title taking a backseat to the feud. All of the feuds seem too personal and not really championship related anymore. If Rusev is next in line to feud with Sheamus over the United States Championship that story writes itself. Rusev wants to give a big slap in the face to America by winning the United States Championship. There he has a clear cut goal and that is the title and nothing else and he doesn't care who he has to go through to get it.
The simple fact is, make the wrestlers WANT the title. Have one say I am going to win this championship, win a number one contenders match and have the title be the sole focus. Don't throw two wrestlers who are feuding anyway into a title program with them just being focused on destroying each other and the title being a consolation prize. Give us a reason to care about the wrestler chasing the title like Daniel Bryan did on the Road to Wrestlemania and the title becomes that much more prestigous.
I'm leaning towards Lesnar. I've read all comments and it just seems more for Lesnar. Ziggler did defend the title 3 times in a week, but he also just won it, after losing it, after winning it, after losing it...that's not prestigious to me, and I know some people disagree but I just don't like it. If he holds it for a couple of months(till RR at least) I'd say Ziggler would add more to it(I mean he is a former world champion, his number 1 rival is a former world champion) but he might lose it before November and I'd lose more interest in the belt.
Now Lesnar is pretty much slotted in for the Wrestlemania main event and I'm completely fine with that. He doesn't have to defend the title, he beat Taker at Wrestlemania, he made Big Show cry, he dominated John Cena and at this point no one looks ready to battle him. That makes the belt look good when no one is close enough to take it. Granted, that isn't saying too much about Lesnar more about the WWE's booking over the last few years but still. They'd have to build people before they could even challenge him and that's good in my book.
So I'm leaning towards Lesnar. As someone else stated the WWE WHC is a 9.8 on prestige right now, before SummerSlam it was like 9.6. But the IC belt is currently lik 6.7 in my book, and before SummerSlam it was like a 7.8. And that's not a jab at Ziggler, it's booking all the way. If they would have kept the belt from being passed around, it'd be like an 8.5(I really like that 2 former world champs are feuding over it honestly). I think they should have just given it to Ziggler in the Battle Royale and he could have retained it straight through to now.
Now Lesnar is pretty much slotted in for the Wrestlemania main event and I'm completely fine with that. He doesn't have to defend the title, he beat Taker at Wrestlemania, he made Big Show cry, he dominated John Cena and at this point no one looks ready to battle him. That makes the belt look good when no one is close enough to take it. Granted, that isn't saying too much about Lesnar more about the WWE's booking over the last few years but still. They'd have to build people before they could even challenge him and that's good in my book.
So I'm leaning towards Lesnar. As someone else stated the WWE WHC is a 9.8 on prestige right now, before SummerSlam it was like 9.6. But the IC belt is currently lik 6.7 in my book, and before SummerSlam it was like a 7.8. And that's not a jab at Ziggler, it's booking all the way. If they would have kept the belt from being passed around, it'd be like an 8.5(I really like that 2 former world champs are feuding over it honestly). I think they should have just given it to Ziggler in the Battle Royale and he could have retained it straight through to now.
The Boss
'The Boss' Of Pro Wrestling
Despite the recent DQ finish if they keep building Lesnar as an unbeatable monster prestige will build. Not by him holding onto the title because we already know that his defenses are few and far between. The prestige will build because no one else has it and the importance of the title will finally be realized when someone finally defeats him for it. Obviously they can drop the ball on that too. It can just be a loss to anyone. It has to be one that generates a lot of emotional support from the fans. Keep the belt on Lesnar. Make him look unbeatable. When the right guy beats him the importance of the title will show through.
ShakemThenBakem
New Member
First time poster, so please don't tear me up too bad.
I believe that this Lesnar not defending could be great for both titles. I'll start with the IC title. With the WHT not bring defended it's the perfect opportunity to propel ziggler and his feuds to the top/level. Imo the last great feuds for the IC title came in the late 90s when rock and HHH were battling and propelling each other into the main event scene. 98 summer slam is still one of my favorite matches ever. I think the gimmick matches they had helped fuel their rivalry. I for one would love to see the Cesaro/Ziegler feud take off over the next 3 months and I think a great way to do that would be to have two singles matches that build into a ladder match in December. Maybe a double count out in the first match and then neither able to stand for a 10 count in the second. Neither of them are pinned, submitted, so they take that into someone has to climb the ladder. I for one believe this brings great interest into the feud, and definitely believe this could shoot both into the next level.
As for the whc, raw tonight gave me the perfect setup for Brock not defending the title until January that adds interest into his title reign. Lesnar the entertainer is portrayed exactly like Lesnar the man. An mma ass kicker who is indestructible. What brings so much interest to ufc champions/championships? They are only defended a few times a year, with the greatest athletes going head to head. Que in.... The Rock. *SPOILER ALERT*. Rock same back and made a surprising visit to a Raw tonight. I think if they shoot a satellite video next week on raw of rocky saying russev wasn't the reason he came to Brooklyn, he just got tired of the Russian running his mouth. His real reason for being there was to give the ultimate challenge to the ultimate fighter. 3 months to prepare to go one on one with the great one! He wants his revenge against Lesnar from all those years ago, and the only indestructible force in the universe is the people's champ. Damn I'm getting excited over the thought of three months of mic work between heyman and rocky! Anyways, I think the only way for the title to be ignored for 4 months is set a huge match up between two competitors whose only focus is that feud. Mic work and video shoots alone, let alone the two names will build up the match. Obviously come the rumble you have Lesnar beat rocky, maybe even with the rock bottom. Gains him more heat and then you look at his victories of the last year and it just adds to the stigma of the beast! Undertaker. Destroying Cena, holding the title through interference, and then beating the great one! How's that for prestige and the ultimate WM moment when he drops the belt to whomever it is.
Here are my thoughts in how to inject life into both titles over the "WHC" drought.
I believe that this Lesnar not defending could be great for both titles. I'll start with the IC title. With the WHT not bring defended it's the perfect opportunity to propel ziggler and his feuds to the top/level. Imo the last great feuds for the IC title came in the late 90s when rock and HHH were battling and propelling each other into the main event scene. 98 summer slam is still one of my favorite matches ever. I think the gimmick matches they had helped fuel their rivalry. I for one would love to see the Cesaro/Ziegler feud take off over the next 3 months and I think a great way to do that would be to have two singles matches that build into a ladder match in December. Maybe a double count out in the first match and then neither able to stand for a 10 count in the second. Neither of them are pinned, submitted, so they take that into someone has to climb the ladder. I for one believe this brings great interest into the feud, and definitely believe this could shoot both into the next level.
As for the whc, raw tonight gave me the perfect setup for Brock not defending the title until January that adds interest into his title reign. Lesnar the entertainer is portrayed exactly like Lesnar the man. An mma ass kicker who is indestructible. What brings so much interest to ufc champions/championships? They are only defended a few times a year, with the greatest athletes going head to head. Que in.... The Rock. *SPOILER ALERT*. Rock same back and made a surprising visit to a Raw tonight. I think if they shoot a satellite video next week on raw of rocky saying russev wasn't the reason he came to Brooklyn, he just got tired of the Russian running his mouth. His real reason for being there was to give the ultimate challenge to the ultimate fighter. 3 months to prepare to go one on one with the great one! He wants his revenge against Lesnar from all those years ago, and the only indestructible force in the universe is the people's champ. Damn I'm getting excited over the thought of three months of mic work between heyman and rocky! Anyways, I think the only way for the title to be ignored for 4 months is set a huge match up between two competitors whose only focus is that feud. Mic work and video shoots alone, let alone the two names will build up the match. Obviously come the rumble you have Lesnar beat rocky, maybe even with the rock bottom. Gains him more heat and then you look at his victories of the last year and it just adds to the stigma of the beast! Undertaker. Destroying Cena, holding the title through interference, and then beating the great one! How's that for prestige and the ultimate WM moment when he drops the belt to whomever it is.
Here are my thoughts in how to inject life into both titles over the "WHC" drought.
Let me be the first to say this, congrats for joining our community. Hopefully you stay for a while as you actually seem friendly and I don't think you're a troll.
I like your idea but I think the Rock's return is a one off. I could be wrong but that's my guess. Would happy to be wrong but that's my thought.
What they should do is give Orton a shot. Taker is what a 6 time world champ, Cena a 15 time, Orton 12 time and Rock is what like 7? So 40 reigns in 4 opponents. That's madness right there
ShakemThenBakem
New Member
Thanks for your hospitality,
I should have stated in my description that I also do not believe the rock to be back live in even a part time roll, I'd just like a few satellite shoots after the challenge, with most of the mic work coming from Heyman. Hopefully if "best for business" is truly Vince's mantra he would find a way to make one match work in Rockys busy schedule.
However, I can see your angle from the Orton POV. Personally I haven't been interested in Orton in years, but his title reigns speak for themselves. Maybe a 3 month "vacation" offscreen can bring back some interest. I just feel like in order for the title to go undefended for 4 months and not have a riot, the feud needs to be booked soon, at least hinted towards, and whomever the challenger is their focus needs to be only on that match. No other feuds from now until Rumble. Anticipation and believability if you will.
I wouldn't object to it but I think people would dislike the idea of no Rock or Lesnar..speaking of which, Heyman wasn't on Raw?
I do agree the challenger should only care about the match with Lesnar and no one aside from Cena right now cares all that much about the title at all. So your idea of the Rock works really well.
That's the problem with this title reign right now. Believability and who cares about it. Right now the only believable opponents are: Cena, Orton, Triple H, Bryan(debatable but still) and people who haven't wrestled in a while(Rock, Taker[maybe]).
Now who cares about the belt...Cena
Orton shouldn't care nor should Trips because they both support Lesnar as champ. Bryan is injured. Unless the Rock makes some claim about it then it's just Cena and Bryan. But to defend your point, doesn't Vince apparently want a Brock/Rock match at Mania? So I could see the WWE doing it.
As far as Orton needing interest, if you meant for you personally I agree. He's got very little to accomplish. But it isn't needed, he got a decent pop when he came out tonight. Could you imagine if next week Cena is getting a beat down by Rollins when Ambrose comes out attacking the Authority. Orton rolls out of the ring comes back in with a chair and everyone assumes he's going to go after Ambrose or Cena but he bashes Rollins in the skull(well he'd do the back but still). Fans would lose their mind cheering for him. I think the problem is the fans would turn on him so fast though. If anything I think his match would have to happen within a month or two after his turn. Too long and the fans will be booing him, sort of like what they do to Cena.
They could do both. Remember a few years back, when Rock returned and became number 1 contender at the Rumble just because he's the Rock. So here's my fantasy booking to make both occur.
Next week, like you said Rock says he was returning to challenge Brock but he never showed up and he went after Rusev because he couldn't deal with the bad mouthing of his country. Then Orton turns on the Authority the way I suggested earlier in this post. He grabs a mic and says he's done being Rollins and Triple H's lapdog. He says he was promised a shot at the belt so he's going to use it at Survivor Series.
You book Orton as the inbetweener here. He can insult Rock, but he's still going after Lesnar like a good face should and he'll even come to the aid of Cena/Ambrose. Basically xD to simplify.
Orton's Rivals: Lesnar, Rock, Authority. In that order. He's mostly a face but we need to believe he'd fight Rock at Rumble if he wins the belt. Meanwhile, like you suggested Rock has a promo every week or other week talking about whupping Lesnar's candy ass at Royal Rumble. They set up Lesnar v Orton at Surivor Series.
When Orton loses(because let's be serious he will) you can keep him as a face basically by kissing up to Rock and helping out Cena and Ambrose. All the while, Rock/Brock keeps getting built up. You can even have Cena getting mad because he deserves a fair rematch.
At the Rumble have the Rock lose. Now if Reigns wins the Rumble, we can have Rock sail off into the sunset. But if anyone else does. They can build up a Rock/Reigns match at Mania. Orton and Rollins feud will conclude at Mania.
Basically, Mania 31
Bryan v Lesnar(c) = Bryan
Rock v Reigns = Reigns
Orton v Rollins = Rollins
Dean v Triple H = Dean
Of course it'll never work like that xD plus it's way too many new guys winning. But that's how I'd like to see it go down to include both ideas
MartialHorror
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Personally I think 'hot potato'-ing the belt with Miz hurt the credibility of Dolph's IC reign. It also seems like he's being booked to lose to Cesaro based on him coming out on top in almost all of their interactions.
