Which of Shawn Michaels' two runs were better? | Page 2 | WrestleZone Forums

Which of Shawn Michaels' two runs were better?

First of all, I think that this has to do with wich era you first saw him, in his first run or his second one? Main eventer or legend?

Being that said, I chose the second one. I actually don't have a valid argument since I wasn't a real fan of wrestling in the 90's. However I perfectly remembered the day HBK came back and everybody tought there was going to be a DX reunion. Then it came HHH's betrayal, one of my favorites. The feud HHH-HBK is probably one of my all time favorite feuds. Don't get me wrong, he had great feuds back in the 90's, but his feud with HHH was such a great feud. The bad blood between the two was excellent. That's why I prefer his second run, because of the classics matches he had not only with HHH (also with Cena, Taker, Angle, Benoit, Jericho, Flair) but also because of ALL of his Wrestlemania's matches. Every single one of them were a classic, and was always a candidate for match of the year.
 
I had a thread about this a few months back!! Gave some pretty good points..
http://forums.wrestlezone.com/showthread.php?t=117554

I'll just paste what I wrote in that one..

I'm going to have to pick...after a long hard thought...WWE, he came back a better wrestler and a better person...not taking away any of his matches from the 90's, hell they were all great, but I feel in the 00's, he was much better...Every WrestleMania he stole the show!! Am I right? Titles never mattered when it came to HBK, maybe in 90's, but they didn't matter when he returned to the WWE..1 World title which was in 2002, he didn't need a title around his waist to show everyone what he could do...he added on to his legacy in a huge way...So my pick is WWE...
 
I am a sucker for the vintage Shawn Michaels that used to dance in front of mirrors and objectify women, not to mention that his stint as a tag team star with Marty Jannetty in both the AWA and WWF got my attention since I was in the right age group to have some memories of that time. As Michaels singles career continued I was still a ravenous WWF fan despite enjoying WCW's product when they had the nWo, and if people think the TNA bashing these days is bad, try being a WWF fan in the mid-late 1990s before the Attitude Era revitalized the promotion.

At the center of those less than stellar years in the WWF, Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart held my interests and kept me liking both products, even though it was "cooler" to be a WCW/nWo fan. So when I think about the first phase of Shawn's WWF career, it's a lot more sentimental for me, reason being that there were so many matches that I was glued to the TV to watch and it was probably my favorite time to be a fan. I'll make a quick break down of my favorites from both the "first phase" and the "second phase" as I affectionately call it.

First Phase:

Vs The Bulldog For the IC Title, Saturday Night's Main Event (October 27, 1992): While he was already gaining heat as a singles competitor heel (which is what I wish John Morrison would go back to), in matches against Roddy Piper, Kerry Von Erich and Rick Martel (I thought the rare heel vs heel match was a nice addition to SummerSlam 1992, despite how the match ended in a double DQ, it was still entertaining to see two vein heels go at it), Shawn Michaels legitimization as a singles competitor happened when he won the WWF Intercontinental Heavyweight Championship (Yes I'm that old school of a fan to call it that still) from the Bulldog. Shawn in my opinion showed that he had arrived in the WWF and wasn't go anywhere but to greatness after this moment.

Vs Bret Hart, Survivor Series 1992 (November 25, 1992): This was a great Champion vs Champion match, I know a lot of people think about the Iron Man Match (Which is a very classic match, but I think it's been talked about to death at this point, so I won't say much more about it outside of this section of my post) and the Montreal Screwjob (I loathe a lot of this storyline and still argue some of its legitimacy to this day but again this is a post for another forum) when they reminisce about Bret vs Shawn, but this along with a rarely seen Intercontinental Title Ladder Match (when Bret was still the IC Champ) are two great Bret-HBK contests. This one held a special place in my heart pardon the pun as a fan because I saw two fresh faces in a main event as Hulk Hogan was starting to transition out of his role as the flagship star in the WWF. While these guys wrestled a more athletic and versatile style than Hulk Hogan, I greatly welcomed it as a fan and despite how I wasn't quite ready to give up on Hulkamania in the WWF (though I and the other fans had no choice in the matter) I was willing to accept Shawn and Bret as the new faces of the WWF because they offered something new and different that the WWF title picture hadn't quite seen since Bob Backlund and Pedro Morales WWWF Title reigns.

Vs Diesel (WrestleMania XI), April 2, 1995: The fact I was there to see this match live might make me like this match more than anything else. However as I mentioned in a previous thread from a week ago, I felt 1995 was a very underrated year in professional wrestling. Matches like this prove that, and like I said in my previous paragraph, this was still a fun time to watch in the WWF even with the signature stars like Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage being absent from the WWF and by this time in enemy territory with WCW. While I'll always enjoy Bret Hart's "David and Goliath" type matches over Shawn's, I still have to say that big men like Kevin Nash and Undertaker had enjoyable matches with Shawn. Great stuff. I have to admit disappointment when Shawn didn't win. (To be honest, I wanted Shawn to be champion for years by this time, instead of Yokozuna I really wanted Shawn to be the one to take Hogan out of the WWF at King Of The Ring 1993, but obviously that didn't happen, lol.)

Vs Owen Hart, RAW - November 20, 1995: These two had several matches including the infamous concussive episode on the November 20, 1995 edition of Monday Night RAW, and the whole storyline about Owen's fake sincerity was entertaining to boot, this led to HBK's eventual and second consecutive Royal Rumble win, which a month later saw him defend his title shot against Owen at the In Your House that followed the 1996 Royal Rumble. I would have liked to have seen more with Owen and Shawn following Bret's WWF departure, I think Owen could have definitely been a World Champion at some point and a title series with Shawn would have been a great way to go about it.

Vs The Undertaker (August 1997-January 1998): Their three matches that predate the 2009-2010 rivalry they had is something that I wish WWE didn't just gloss over. Of course the roots to this feud beginning at SummerSlam 1997 when Shawn cost Undertaker the WWF Title was a good start to the feud. Their contests were just awesome viewings, going from their very first one at Ground Zero: In Your House (Sep 1997) then of course their Hell In The Cell at Bad Blood) and their WWF title match at Royal Rumble of 1998 (Where Shawn's health really took a turn for the worse) had some great entertainment and storyline value before they had their two WrestleMania matches. Professionally and personally for Shawn, this was a heartbreaker to see happen.

Vs Steve Austin - (WrestleMania XIV - March 29, 1998): It was a great transition from one era of the WWF to the other when Austin got the win over HBK at the grandest stage of them all. The match itself was classic too, it was nice to see Shawn push himself to the limit in order to have us see him in his last 1990's main event match. The DX storyline with Mike Tyson carried a lot of weight into a match that was already great with its in ring action to begin with. Austin catching HBK and spinning him around into a Stone Cold Stunner was a priceless way to end the match and give Austin the World Title and the stamp of approval as the company's next big thing.

Now in between that we fast forward to the early 2000's, and I know that Shawn's reputation in the first part of his career has controversy but I prefer to not bother with those details and harp on them. No one's perfect in real life and my desire to like wrestling makes me consider the personal lives of all these people to be irrelevant to how I view their work and what I think of them as people, since I don't feel I have an authority to speak much on that. The same can be said for Shawn's second career where he had found God and became a better person for it, much of that could be true and looks to be genuine, but I find that irrelevant to how and why I might like him as a superstar. But just the same it was good to see him back so let's go over a few highlights of the "rebirth" of HBK shall we?

Vs Triple H, SummerSlam 2002 (August 25, 2002): Like the match against Diesel, I was actually there to see this event happen live and in person. It was an awesome happening, it was of course "non-sanctioned by WWE" so of course the traditional rules and ramifications of WWE's involvement in such a contest were of course non-existent. That amusing but befuddling concept in kayfabe considering that it happened at a WWE event does not stop me from enjoying the contest, and it was just one of those little things that you accept as a fan of anything that's in the form of a story. The match itself was the very definition of in ring action and Shawn and Triple H's chemistry was great. Shawn Michaels showed that he was able to have a second life in the ring and what a way to start things up again. Just a sheer joy and to be there in person was an even more exciting thing as a fan. Who knew that it was the sign of greater things to come...I sure didn't, but I was glad to see that it was the sign of things to come.

The Elimination Chamber at Survivor Series 2002 (November 17, 2002) : RVD, Jericho, Kane, Triple H, Booker T and Shawn Michaels all marquee names in a marquee match that has become a staple in WWE. Shawn's always had a distinction of being the part of several precedents in WWF/E history, (the Ladder Match - while a staple in the Canadian Stampede Wrestling days, saw Shawn wrestle the first incarnation of it in the WWF, the Hell In A Cell, and the Iron Man Match (Originally a WCW fixture). On this night the returning vet not only can claim to be part of the first ever Elimination Chamber but he also walked out the World Champion that night. Granted Triple H would get the title back a month later, and Shawn would only see a tag team title reign five years after this last title reign, but just the same what great moments that followed this initial phase in his comeback.

Vs Chris Jericho (WrestleMania 19 - March 30,2003): McMahon Vs Hogan, Triple H vs Booker T, Rock Vs Austin, and Lesnar vs Angle all shared the distinction of a Quadruple Main Event and while Hogan and Vince's likeness plastered several promo posters and the DVD cover for the event, Jericho vs Michaels was a match after my own heart and arguably a show stealer. It was a great contest between two evenly matched and kindred spirits in that ring. I know that sounds a little goofy but Jericho and Michaels were made to have matches together and thankfully Michaels comeback wasn't a one time thing at SummerSlam 2002 because than this match would never happen. Later on, their resuming of their feud in 2008 was great as well and another feather in both men's caps during their illustrious careers.

Vs Hulk Hogan (Summer Slam 2005 - August 21, 2005):
It was great to see happen, I don't care about all the rumors and drama backstage, and I know people love to mention Shawn Michaels overselling in the match being a dig at Hulk Hogan, but at the same time, the "overselling" on Shawn's part is no different than the antics I saw in a lot of Hogan's 80s contest. So seeing wrestling's signature star of the 80s in a cartoonish match like this one did not surprise me at all, but it was damned entertaining anyway. Bottom line is that none of us know the true story behind Shawn and Hogan's relationship behind the scenes and even though the My Journey DVD chronicles some of this, we have to remember this is WWE we're talking about and line of kayfabe and reality in professional wrestling these days is blurred. Who knows what the story truly is. Bottom line is, both men showed up and both men worked a match together and it was a decent effort on both men's parts. For Shawn it wasn't a typical contest and I wouldn't say it was his absolute finest match ever, but for someone of Hogan's age and move arsenal at this point in his career compared to Shawn Michaels, I'd dare say it was a very entertaining performance to watch.

Vs John Cena (WrestleMania 23 - April 1, 2007): WOW. I don't like John Cena, I was only mildly amused by his initial gimmick before things got toned down with his image for the sake of WWE PG, but boy can that guy create an energy in that ring, and of course I was rooting against him when he took on HBK but what a great effort on both guys parts, it was just amazing I loved it. There was so much suspense and drama during this match that it looked like it could have gone either way, although John Cena's momentum needed to be preserved during this reign as champion (which ended up lasting over a year) but there was no better an opponent that year at WM 23 than Shawn Michaels. They were both tag team champions and had an uneasy alliance, while I don't typically support randomly created tag teams there was a decent storyline that justified the tag title reign and like Rey vs Eddie at WM 21 we not only had a World Title match but a Tag Champion vs Tag Champion contest. I put it up there with my favorite Mania contests ever.

Vs John Cena (RAW - 4/23/2007): This was such a great match that I had to mention it separately, this was a non-title rematch but it sure as hell didn't seem like it. Plus to have it on cable TV was a great bonus for the fans. It was Pay Per View worthy but nothing wrong with having something on RAW that is of a PPV magnitude every once in a while. It was such a suspenseful and unpredictable contest with some near falls and intense and exciting action that I lost myself in the moment and felt like a teenager all over again! Shawn's turning Cena's FU into an escape and a dramatically executed Sweet Chin Music from the corner was a beautiful finish. Probably the best RAW match ever!

Vs Undertaker - (WrestleMania 25 - April 5, 2009):While younger generations of fans looked at this as a new feud between two legends, for me it was a whole new chapter to a classic rivalry. This time I was rooting for the Taker, number one because it was the streak which I don't want to end, and because I wanted Taker to gain ground in the revived rivalry. But even though Taker won and Shawn came out short in this, everyone wins with a match like this. Taker catches Shawn from the top ropes was just an exclamation point to end a match that should have actually been the main event of WrestleMania XXV no matter what anyone else says that's how I feel it should have ended, plain and simple.

Vs Undertaker (WrestleMania XXVI - March 28, 2010): Just as intriguing as the previous encounter, I loved the resilience and the determination of Shawn's character throughout the match, even with the Undertaker winning, and it being the ending I want the fan of the story within me felt for Shawn's character. Because you could see the way it was played that Shawn wanted this so badly, but the Taker's will to defend his streak just went out, but there was no better or more honorable storyline way to end a career than this match. Shawn's never say die attitude towards the very last move in that match where he was Tombstoned by Taker said it all during this moment. One of my other favorites matches at WrestleMania, right up with there with the Ladder Match with Shawn vs Razor, Hogan vs Rock and Savage Vs Steamboat.

Overall:

Words like Rocker Dropper and Tear Drop Suplex were more than familiar to me back in the day, so that definitely dates me as a fan of wrestling and Shawn Michaels. As well as names like Doug Summers and Buddy Rose (Two of Shawn And Marty's rivals in the AWA) and of course I even remember Shawn's career when he was billed as "Sean Michaels". While I am not an HBK expert by any means (my knowledge of his career in WCCW has really only been made possible by research archives). But it's tough to pick which of Shawn's two runs were better. I think both offered fans something special. The first time around if you were a fan of my age group you got to see a guy who was one of the boldest, most daring and outright obnoxious at times (but in a good way) but who could also back up all that ego. Just simply amazing, his title of Mr. WrestleMania is pretty deserving, no doubt about it. Again, I'm not weighing his personal issues and backstage politics against him, for it takes nothing away from his talent. Sure I would have liked to see a Michaels-Hart WrestleMania 13 rematch, but I don't know enough about the situation to know if that was really even planned in the first place, no matter what dirt sheets say.

But the second run of course wouldn't have been what it was without the track record Shawn had for several of the matches I discussed. A great thread to be sure, and one I was really happy to contribute to. For fans like me it was great to see a new superstar in the mold of Shawn Michaels, again him and Bret Hart was a great change in pace and a breath of fresh air from the WWF's archetype of a powerhouse like Hulk Hogan dominating the title scene. Then for the younger fans who were being introduced to Shawn, his second run showed him as an accomplished mat veteran that could still hang with the new age of superstars.

For me the first chapter of Shawn's career will always be the most enjoyable and I prefer it more to what I have seen today at least overall, but there is no way I would want to discredit Shawn's second phase of his career because there were so many great moments period. Overall, awesome thread like I just mentioned and let's keep it coming, I look forward to more responses from fans of both runs to chime in!
 
There were alot of matches in his first stint that many people seem to forget:

His match with Foley at Mind Games; Deisel (Good friends better enemies) and his classics with the Bulldog just to name a few. Of course, people also forget about his awesome tag matches with Jannetty against the Orient Express, Brain Busters and Rougeaus.

Now take that and throw in all of his popular stuff: The ladder, casket and HIAC matches; feuds with Bret and Austin; the original DX and some of the greatest skits and promos we have ever seen: Ascending from the rafters and having a BBQ in the ring, strip poker, making fun of Shamrock, Slaughter and the "Nugget" Owen Hart.

So I'd take his first stint...it's what made him who he was. The funny thing is...any wrestler could only dream of having either one of these runs for their career....and Shawn had TWO!! Just goes to show how badass that man truly was. Sorry Flair fans, Michaels is the GOAT.
 
It is damn close but I would go with his second stint. At the end of the day I think it comes down to the fact that I believe in this run he had more classic matches and feuds, not to say he didn't in his first run as that is just untrue but in his second run they were more frequent and arguably better.

I mean just look at some of the matches he has had since his return; vs HHH at Summerslam 2002 (amongst others), Elimination Chamber at SSeries 2002, vs Jericho at WM 19 (amongst otherr), vs Kurt at WM 21 (amongst others), vs HHH vs Benoit at WM 20, vs Flair at WM 24, vs Vince at WM 22, vs Cena on Raw and at WM23, vs Taker at WM 25 & 6. Look at that list, some of the absolute greatest matches of all time. In fact I think if you asked people what they think the best match of all time is at least 30-40% would chose a match from that short list.
 

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