Which group were you for: The Hart Fondation or the Kliq?

[CM Steel]

In the early to mid-1990's two circle's of groups had a hot hand in the then-WWF working for Vince McMahon. The Hart Fondation, led by Bret "The Hitman" Hart, Owen Hart (R.I.P.), Davey Boy Smith (R.I.P.), Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart, and honorary Hart Brian Pillman (R.I.P.). And pretty much anybody associated with the Hart family ala the late Chris Benoit. And then you have the Kliq. With stars like HBK Shawn Michaels, Scott Hall (Razor Ramon), Kevin Nash (Diesel), Hunter Hurst Helmsley (Triple H), The Kid (X-Pac), and honorary Kliq member Justin Credible (Aldo Montoya).

Both groups were pretty tight backstage during politic periods. And they both put the wrestling business first above everything. But when money was a major issue guys started to jump ship over to WCW. After the whole "Montreal Screwjob" thing at the Survivor Series pay per-view in '97 between Bret Hart & Shawn Michaels. More than half of each members of the groups had left for Atlanta by that time. But within the following two years some guys came back up to New York working for Vince McMahon again. And then after Vinnie Mac bought out Ted Turner's WCW in 2001, some of the older guys re-signed with the WWF/E after a years time. With Bret Hart returning home to the WWE in early 2010.

Now through after all that time. In your opinion. Which group were you for: The Hart Fondation or the Kliq? I could go either way.

 

[Dirk]

IIRC, the main goal of the Kliq was to promote themselves at the expense of other wrestlers, which is why Bret didn't join. Sure, the Kliq had much bigger stars and the Foundation reeked of nepotism, but the rumours I've read indicate that the Fondation were by far the lesser of the two evils.

Also, Kevin Nash never put the wrestling business above himself...

 

[rge2010]

Hart Foundation were an on screen stable and the Klique was a backstage group. Only smarks knew about them.

Bret had an ego, he still does but we must divorce ourselves from his spat with Shawn Michaels because there are 100s of factors to consider and that is a whole different debate.

In short, when Bret was on top 92-97 he put over Bulldog, Owen, Yokozuna and Austin. He also tried to help build Luger and The Patriot but that didnt work out (Luger was due to beat Bret at Mania 10).

I was a Hart Foundation guy because Wrestling came first with them and themselves came second.

 

[relentless1]

i am canadian and i love the harts but the kliq brought us the nWo and DX, cant beat what they brought to the table. I voted Kliq.

 

[Matty~!]

Like rge said, The Hart Foundation were an on screen faction, Bret obviously had the ear of Vince but I don't he really petitioned Vince to push or depush people he liked or didn't like.

The other 'backstage faction' was Undertaker's Bone Street Krew which consisted of Yokozuna, Paul Bearer, Fatu (Rikishi) Savio Vega, Kama (Godfather) Henry Godwin and Crush who all had 'BSK' tattoos. However, unlike the Kliq they weren't really about enforcing their will and were made up to be an anaesthetist to the Kliq.

 

[KevinCarsner]

HBK was far too big of a scummer backstage to respect him at all as a fellow human back then. Willing to back-stab and treat people like crap in the real world in order to look good on a TV show. Refusing to job is not only equal parts sad and ridiculous, but it's the opposite of what a professional does and impedes the progress of the company.

I always liken Michaels back then to the kid on the playground in grade 3 who refused to do the job while playing war.

HBK - "NO! I WIN. I'M THE BEST AT GUNS!"

Everyone Else - "OK great Shawn, real fun. I'll lose because this is just for entertainment."

HBK - "YES. I'm THE BEST!"

It seems to me like a case of professionals who want to work vs guys who are mentally still in high school. Not saying he wasn't fun to watch, just can't forget things that always skewed my view of him. I mean hell they even called themselves "the kliq". IMO It doesn't get much more high school than that.

 

[HBsam31]

HBK was far too big of a scummer backstage to respect him at all as a fellow human back then. Willing to back-stab and treat people like crap in the real world in order to look good on a TV show. Refusing to job is not only equal parts sad and ridiculous, but it's the opposite of what a professional does and impedes the progress of the company.

I always liken Michaels back then to the kid on the playground in grade 3 who refused to do the job while playing war.

HBK - "NO! I WIN. I'M THE BEST AT GUNS!"

Everyone Else - "OK great Shawn, real fun. I'll lose because this is just for entertainment."

HBK - "YES. I'm THE BEST!"

It seems to me like a case of professionals who want to work vs guys who are mentally still in high school. Not saying he wasn't fun to watch, just can't forget things that always skewed my view of him. I mean hell they even called themselves "the kliq". IMO It doesn't get much more high school than that.

I was always a Kliq guy, and I can see your side of things I really do. I am a chef, and believe it or not it is a pretty cut throat business. I don't subscribe to treating people like shit in anyway, but the thing is I have been left behind a lot of times because of that. In some professions, wrestling being one of them, the nice guy doesn't often times win. How can you fault someone for doing anything it takes, even being a backstabbing deceitful asshole to get ahead and put them and their family in a better spot? The Kliq were guys that were entertaining to watch, and that is how I look at what is giving me entertainment. Bret hart was no choir boy either. He seemingly grew into a bitter resentful man, and I am sure he wasn't always a pleasure to work with either. I actually like both groups, but HBK has been my all time favorite for a long time. Not to mention HHH, Nash, and Hall. They just entertained me a little more than the Harts. I am not disagreeing with you exactly, but there is another side to what you are saying. A lot of times nice guys really do finish last, and I have seen it first hand. As much as I hate to say it sometimes you have to be a prick to get ahead in this world.

 

[WWEWrestleFest]

I was a huge WWF fan during the Hulkamania era and during the Attitude era, and I was a huge WCW fan during the Nitro/nWo era. But the New Generation era wasn't really my favorite period. Which group did I prefer? I guess the Kilq because I was a huge Razor Ramon fan, and a huge Scott Hall fan in the nWo, I grew to like Kevin Nash through his association with Hall in WCW, and I always liked X-Pac/1-2-3 Kid. But I didn't really know Hall was a member of the Kliq backstage until Hall and Nash left for WCW. This was before most people were on the internet, so I didn't really know too much backstage stuff. And I HATED Hunter, and still can't stand the guy. Not in a "he's a heel so I'm supposed to hate him" way, but a "he's boring and makes me want to change the channel" kind of way. Between Michaels and Bret Hart, I actually wasn't a fan of either of them. After the Hogan/Savage/Warrior era ended in WWF, I always kind of saw Mr. Perfect as the next guy over both HBK and Bret. Though during the Montreal Screwjob, I did take Bret's side.

 

[lowandmighty]

Personally I liked the Hart foundation although I never saw Benoit as being associated with them. If I knew that I would've hated them because I never liked Benoit and I mean his whole career not just after the double murder suicide.

I was more a fan of the Owen and British Bulldog tag team than anyone else in it and I liked the Anvil's singles career, particularly his match against the Warlord.
Obviously I was going for Bret Hart in that iron man match at WM12.

However that iron man match changed my opinion. I didn't really like Shawn Micheals afterwards but I liked Bret Hart less. Something to do with how he handled the situation and then tried to redeem himself in the public eye with and interview for the Wrestlemania 12 magazine in which he virtually gave HBK a rim job.

Ever since then Bret Hart just became an angry ingrate, shooting on all the people who made his career possible, especially Hulk Hogan. Having said that, his heel turn at the start of the attitude era was pretty good, hated in the U.S but loved in Canada, that was cool.

Although it was nothing more than the WWF's answer to Hollywood Hogan so that put a bit of a dampener on it.

So now in hindsight, I think I like the Kliq better. Not Shawn but mainly Razor Ramon and Triple H.

 

[Slash-LN]

At the time I knew nothing about the backstage stuff.
I grew up as a fan of Shawn so I always took his side no matter who he was facing and whether or not he was a face or a heel. I didn't even know those terms back then.
That being said I also grew up as a fan of Bret, Owen and Davey. I really liked the stuff the heel Hart Foundation was doing at the time and I loved the craziness that was Brian Pillman.
I'm not and never have been a fan of Hunter. I did like Hall and Nash and X Pac though.
So all in all Shawn trumps all but to say I backed the clique over the Harts is kind of ridiculous since I didn't even know one existed back then.

 

[CM Steel]

Personally I liked the Hart foundation although I never saw Benoit as being associated with them. If I knew that I would've hated them because I never liked Benoit and I mean his whole career not just after the double murder suicide.

I was more a fan of the Owen and British Bulldog tag team than anyone else in it and I liked the Anvil's singles career, particularly his match against the Warlord.
Obviously I was going for Bret Hart in that iron man match at WM12.

However that iron man match changed my opinion. I didn't really like Shawn Micheals afterwards but I liked Bret Hart less. Something to do with how he handled the situation and then tried to redeem himself in the public eye with and interview for the Wrestlemania 12 magazine in which he virtually gave HBK a rim job.

Ever since then Bret Hart just became an angry ingrate, shooting on all the people who made his career possible, especially Hulk Hogan. Having said that, his heel turn at the start of the attitude era was pretty good, hated in the U.S but loved in Canada, that was cool.

Although it was nothing more than the WWF's answer to Hollywood Hogan so that put a bit of a dampener on it.

So now in hindsight, I think I like the Kliq better. Not Shawn but mainly Razor Ramon and Triple H.

With the Chris Benoit thing being said. Benoit did have a try out match in the WWF/E in the mid-90's as part of Ted Dibiase's Million Dollar Corperation. He had a try out match during the dark match of the evening atlease three times on three different nights, but failed to get signed by the WWF/E at that time. But of course Chris Benoit would debut in the WWF/E in 2000 as part of the radicalz faction and have a great solo career and so on...

And yeah the Bret Hart heel turn was the answer to Hollywood Hogan.

 

[asiatic7]

Pound for Pound, the best outfit (you like that term...you know it) was the Hart Foundation. They had the best combinations of speed and power you can put together. They put on more competitive matches with or against each other than their counterpart The Kliq.

Bret and Davey used to tear it up in the mid 80's with their respective tag teams...great matches. They did the same against each other in Wembley Arena @ SS 92'. Bret and Owen had great matches against each other in 94' @ WMX and SS later that year. Davey and Owen had a classic technical match in Europe in 97 for the European title....basically they always made each other look good. They made their opponents look good too.

As for The Kliq, Shawn and Razor had a good ladder match @ WMX. In My opinion, with the exception of Shawn and Waltman, the rest of The Kliq was not that entertaining to watch. I was never a HHH guy. What match to this day defines his career? Everyone that put him over always looked better in defeat than he did in victory. Hall and Nash got very lazy in WCW and their matches were boring. Waltman was fun to watch. Hall was good when he was Razor Ramon and Nash....Let's put it like this, when you cut a promo wearing flip flops a fanny pack and holding a cup of coffee in your hand shows you are putting zero effort into being entertaining and just resting on the laurels of a guaranteed contract. As one poster above said, He always put himself above the business.

My opinion of who was the better faction is based on talent. The Harts were light years ahead of The Kliq when it came to talent.

The Kliq rose to the top by politicking and screwing people over backstage. The Harts in true Hart family tradition proved themselves in the ring night in, night out....Good Night folks!!!

 

[DarksideEric]

I grew up always liking Bret because he had a wrestling style that I personally wanted to be when I was a kid (back when I wanted to be a wrestler). I've always been more of a fan of the technical/submission expert (after I grew out of my WOO ULTIMATE WARRIOR phase) and so I naturally gravitated towards the Harts because, well, Nash is no technician and none of them hardly ever touched submissions.

 

[blue_moon]

I always preferred the Harts growing up. Bret especially but I also liked the Bulldog with him being from the same part of the world as me.

Was Sid ever considered a member of the Kliq?

 

[CM Steel]

I always preferred the Harts growing up. Bret especially but I also liked the Bulldog with him being from the same part of the world as me.

Was Sid ever considered a member of the Kliq?

Bret Hart was the man after Hulk Hogan left the WWF to go star in the TV show "Thunder & Paradise". The Bulldog is a wrestling legend anywhere in England.

And no Sid was never apart of the Kliq, sorry.

 

[MrMojoRisin]

The Klique and the Stampede crew were similar in a lot of ways, and complete opposites in only a couple. That's probably why the two groups intermingled so much over the years, while the two main guys (Bret and Shawn) were able to develop such a strong hatred of each other.

When Shawn got beat up by those Marines, remember it was Waltman and Bulldog that were with him that night. While the Klique wanted to work with each other first and foremost, when they weren't, they were typically working with the Stampede guys before anyone else on the roster. When Bret went to WCW, who did he work with the most (and apparently hang out with the most)? Nash and Hall. When the Klique was first formed backstage, they actually wanted Bret to essentially be their leader because they all respected him so much. Had Bret been into drugs more than women, he probably would have initially too.

Just like the Klique, the Stampede guys tended to prefer working with each other first... the major difference being that they rarely ever had a problem working with and putting over people outside of their circle, whereas whenever the Klique had to, they did it more kicking and screaming and weren't as willing to put anyone else over. If it wasn't for that one major difference (the Stampede guys having more respect for the locker room and business as a whole, while the Klique put themselves above everything and everyone else), the two groups would have likely become one larger happy family in the end. They were that similar to each other.

To answer the OP's question, I was a Hart guy though. I simply just preferred the more realistic style the Stampede guys used compared to the showier style of the Klique. Not to say I didn't like the Klique, but give me the choice between watching Klique matches and angles, and Stampede matches and angles, and I'll go with Stampede every day of the week.

And everyone talking about the guys in these groups, you've gotta include Dynamite too. Before he got hurt and couldn't go anymore, he was probably more of the leader of the Stampede crew than Bret was, and honestly if his body had held up... I truly feel that today instead of debates of who was better, Bret or Shawn, we'd be talking about how the Dynamite Kid was the best of all of them.

 

[shalliin]

In the early to mid-1990's two circle's of groups had a hot hand in the then-WWF working for Vince McMahon. The Hart Fondation, led by Bret "The Hitman" Hart, Owen Hart (R.I.P.), Davey Boy Smith (R.I.P.), Jim "The Anvil" Neidhart, and honorary Hart Brian Pillman (R.I.P.). And pretty much anybody associated with the Hart family ala the late Chris Benoit. And then you have the Kliq. With stars like HBK Shawn Michaels, Scott Hall (Razor Ramon), Kevin Nash (Diesel), Hunter Hurst Helmsley (Triple H), The Kid (X-Pac), and honorary Kliq member Justin Credible (Aldo Montoya).

Both groups were pretty tight backstage during politic periods. And they both put the wrestling business first above everything. But when money was a major issue guys started to jump ship over to WCW. After the whole "Montreal Screwjob" thing at the Survivor Series pay per-view in '97 between Bret Hart & Shawn Michaels. More than half of each members of the groups had left for Atlanta by that time. But within the following two years some guys came back up to New York working for Vince McMahon again. And then after Vinnie Mac bought out Ted Turner's WCW in 2001, some of the older guys re-signed with the WWF/E after a years time. With Bret Hart returning home to the WWE in early 2010.

Now through after all that time. In your opinion. Which group were you for: The Hart Fondation or the Kliq? I could go either way.

1-kliq was never at that time about putting the business first. it was all about what was best for them and how much they could make and screw everyone else.

2-hart foundation was barely a thing during the time, as bret was a singles competitor and owen was taging with other people when not singles himself. some of the guys you mentioned had left or were gone by the time this stuff started really affecting the product and the atmosphere of the company, though a few of them came back or debut later.

3-the true 3rd group, and the one that really did put business first over individual power was BSK-headed by Undertaker and Yoko.

And honestly, for the most part no one outside of the company really was aware or talked about what groups were formed and hung out together backstage. IT was a different era before all the Internet dirtsheets and egomaniacs like HHH,HBK and Nash through open the doors to the backstage world. People thought they knew what was going on, but very few were really aware of the personal friendships and relationships between the guys backstage. No matter what smarks and icw people claim now about being in the know, NONE OF US WERE.