Which era of WCW had the better product: The Crockett Era or The NWO era?

[It's...Baylariat!]

The Crockett Era was better.

The wrestling was more reality based, the characters were believable, and the rivalries seemed legitimate and some WERE actually legit - Tully Blanchard and Magnum TA are great examples of this.

Ric Flair was a better champion than Hulk Hogan, the Horsemen were better than the NWO, and the babyfaces were better in Crockett's era. Guys like Dusty Rhodes, Magnum, the Rock n Roll Express, and Sam Houston would get earth shattering pops when they came out. And if someone jumped them? It was on... and whomever did the jumping became an instant heel.

During the NWO era, the heels were cool by accident. There was no planning long-term for the NWO. Bischoff and later Russo acknowledge that they were going week by week when it comes to booking and putting things together.

In Crockett's era, everything had a huge build to it. Dusty vs. Flair had a HUGE, long-term build to their title matches. Same goes with Blanchard and Magnum or Midnight Express and Rock N Roll Express. Building to a conclusion was great back then, because they didn't have to hot shot anything due to ratings. The main point of emphasis was live events that made money at the gate, not revenue generated from advertisements and television studios.

Don't get me wrong, the NWO era gave us Goldberg, dark Sting, The Outsiders, and the cruiserweights, but at the same time, this era took a lot more than it gave and it ended up putting WCW in a compromising situation.

The Crockett Era ALLOWED Ted Turner to purchase the promotion and make it what it was at the end. He bought the promotion because of the likes of Ric Flair, Lex Luger, Barry Windham, Sting, and many others. So in my opinion, it could be said that Crockett's era helped the NWO era take place.

It also didn't help that the NWO wasn't original and was over played. The Horsemen during that era changed guys three times. Ole Anderson to Lex, and Lex to Barry Windham. In the NWO era, it was a new breed of folks like Mongo McMichael that ended up joining the group.

So I'm partial to the Crockett era, and I stand by my thought of it being the superior era.

 

[FlairFan2003]

I would look at the Crockett Era as the early 80's (Crockett's first big move in control was to convince other allied promoters to make Ric Flair champion in 1981) to 1988 (when Ted Turner bought the company and it became a subsidiary of Turner Broadcasting, soon to be renamed WCW). WCW was making money and doing very well in the ratings vs WWE in in 95 thanks almost exclusively to their top heavy star roster (Hogan, Flair, Savage, Sting) but the NWO angle doesn't start till the Spring of 96 when Hall & Nash start appearing. I'd say the NWO era runs from Spring of 96 to the Spring of 99 when the angle dies after Hogan loses the title and Nash & Hogan turn on each other while trying to get title shots.

That said, The Crockett era was more entertaining top to bottom. JCP was much better at promoting undercard feuds and matches...remember the heat Jim Cornett and The Midnight Express would get in their matches vs The Rock & Roll Express (the feud that inspired Vince to create the Hart Foundations vs British Bulldogs in WWE) or against The Road Warriors ? Tag team wrestling in general was much bigger industry wide in the 80s but the real point here is that JCP allowed these fueds to get major heat. Very few feuds not directly involving the NWO were allowed to get major play or main event during their era. Granted, Dusty Rhodes and Ric Flair were the top attractions most of the JCP era, but wrestlers such as M-Express, R-Warriors, R & R Express, were able to get significant air time and develop into stars independent of being involved in the ongoing Four Horsemen vs American Dream Team conflict.

Nikita Kolloff vs Magnum TA was another example of a major main event caliber feud completely independent Dusty & Flair, et all that was allowed to help carry the promotion. Overall I feel that much better attention was paid to undercard matches and feuds during the JCP era than the NWO.

The actual wrestling action was better overall. During the NWO era WCW did have the Cruiserweights but they typically worked "spot fest" style matches with little continuity or storytelling, plus they were buried storyline wise. Most of the major players in the NWO either chose to not wrestle high caliber matches or simply could not on a consistent basis. Curt Henning after a huge initial build up wasn't allowed to do much of anything within the NWO after some entertaining matches vs Flair. Scott Hall was often MIA and very inconsistent in the ring, allegedly due to drug problems. Nash and Hogan wrestled less and less frequently and Hogan in particular was not known for great in ring performances.

JCP had numerous wrestlers who were given ample storyline time who could entertain in the ring. Magnum TA vs Tully Blanchard was a main event level that featured two of the best matches of the year in 1985 (Blanchard's 53 minute US Title win and the iconic "I Quit" Match of Starrcade 85), the tag team action was terrific between the three teams mentioned as well as Blanchard/Arn Anderson, Barry Whyndam was at his absolute best during this time and was one of the best in ring performers in the industry at the time, Ron Garvin was very good in the ring (Albeit a bit bland on the mic), "Gorgeous" Jimmy Garvin was good in the ring (and more entertaining than his storyline brother Ron), you also had Steve "Dr Death" Williams for a time here, Kerry Von Erich at his height in popularity and performance ability (pre motorcycle accident), the final stages of Harley Race's great career, some great moments with Roddy Piper, Greg Valentine, there were some memorable characters who could also go in the ring and they weren't buried in poorly defined undercard matches like during the NWO days.
Of course, back in the 80s you had memorable 60 minute marathon type matches (not just Ric Flair, other guys like Blanchard & TA could wrestle like that) as well as bloody, violent cage matches, bullrope matches, chain matches, better scientific matches as well as more gimmick matches (and more violence) than the NWO era.

As for the main stars, both the NWO and The Four Horsemen were great as lead heels but The Horsemen wrestled much better matches and were willing to lose periodically to put over the opposition and keep the storylines evolving, unlike the NWO. Dusty Rhodes was extremely popular as the lead good guy, in the 80s he was probably second only to Hulk Hogan nationwide as the most popular fan fave in the US, certainly comparable to Sting as the main opponent of the NWO, but the roster of other fan faves such as R & R Express and Road Warriors, Magnum TA, Barry Whyndam, post Horsemen Lex Luger, early 80s Piper, etc was deeper and much better utilized than the other NWO era faces who opposed them (other than Sting, Flair was probably their best adversary, but wasn't used well storyline wise, with some opposition from DDP and at the very end Goldberg). There was a larger amount of main event caliber faces who were allowed to do well and look good during the JCP time.

Of course, part of having more and better utilized talents as good guys during the JCP era was because they were allowed to have other significant villains outside the Horsemen. The Midnight Express & Jim Cornett were top level heels for several years, you also had The Russian Invasion lead by former WWE Champ Ivan Kolloff and his "Nephew" Nikita Kolloff, some excellent tag team work by World Tag Team Chamos Rick Rude & Manny Fernandez, and for awhile Kevin Sullivan's varsity gang were given significant air time as well, among others. During the NWO era almost no heels were given equal billing or time as the NWO where as gangs like Cornette/ME and The Russians were clearly billed as top level bad guys equal to Flair & The Horsemen.

For me it the Jim Crockett Promotions era by far.

 

[The Eighties]

The Crockett Era quite comfortably for me. The NWO storyline was great and I was a big fan of Crow Sting, but the in ring product outside of the mid card and the Cruisers was really poor, lots of lazy guys who were phoning it in and doing as little as possible.

Obviously these days the production values of JCP will look pretty laughable but the storylines had classic qualities to them and most importantly the in ring product has stood the test of time, one of the greatest eras for North America as far as match quality went. You can't beat a good, simple angle like the stuff between Flair and Dusty/Steamboat/Funk with a high quality pay-off in the ring in my view and that's before we even take into consideration the quality of the tag team wrestling.

 

[Sweettre15]

Obviously these days the production values of JCP will look pretty laughable but the storylines had classic qualities to them and most importantly the in ring product has stood the test of time, one of the greatest eras for North America as far as match quality went. You can't beat a good, simple angle like the stuff between Flair and Dusty/Steamboat/Funk with a high quality pay-off in the ring in my view and that's before we even take into consideration the quality of the tag team wrestling.

You haven't even gotten into the great promo work that you've often see in this era. I mean if you look that the promo duel that Dusty Rhodes and Jim Cornette had or even Tully Blanchard's promos they were pretty exceptional IMO.

 

[Bobbywoodhogan]

I'd say the Crockett Era had more good to great matches but the nWo era was better entertainment with some good matches but more poor ones. For my personal preference I'd definitely go with the nWo. But tbh my favourite time in WCW was the 89-90 stuff where Sting was chasing the title. The Great American Bash 1990 is still my favourite WCW PPV.

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

The only matches during the nWo time period that I would want to go back and watch would be the Cruiserweight matches, i.e. Malenko, Mysterio, Jericho, Benoit, etc. The rest was a cocktease of waiting to see what the nWo did next, but the ultimate payoff of those matches was weak. On the other hand, with JCP, the matches I wanted to see involved the top guys on the card. Flair, Magnum, Windham, The Road Warriors, the Rock N' Rolls, The Midnight Express, The Russians...it was definitely a less glitzy, more wrasslin feel, but it remains my favorite era of wrestling from any promotion.

 

[Catacomb]

The better product will always be the one that draws more money, so it's nWo.

mcdonalds makes the most money from cheeseburgers, but it doesnt mean mcdonalds cheeseburgers taste the best. also wrestling is an art, and all art is subjective. but despite what i just said, i do agree, nwo was the best, but i could still enjoy both eras

 

[PsychoBlack]

The nWo was so good that it crippled itself. It got to a certain point that it felt like anybody that was worth a damn in WCW was with the nWo. This is what holds the nWo's era from being as legendary as the nWo itself. No one was left to fight for the honor of the company except Sting, who Hogan and his goons had been terrified of for about 9 moonths now. Once we get to Starcade for the big blowoff Hogan goes out beats sting up pretty good and pinned him clean as a whistle in the middle of the ring. Yea it got overturned and all that other jazz but why the fuck would they do it this way. They should have came out did the stare down and big match intros and Sting should have took 10 minutes to beat the tar out of Hogan. This right here is what separates The nWo era from the Crockett era. The heels in the Crockett era weren't all allied and on occasion they all lost. The reason ALL the heels lost is because that's what heels do they lose to give the fans a reason to go nuts for the face.

The nWo era also felt rushed. Things would just happen out of no where for some of the most unfathomable reasons you could imagine and often times we didn't get an explanation it just happened. Goldberg vs Hogan was built up in less than a week and they had maybe the biggest match in the wrestling world at this point on free television so that they could have Karl Malone and Dennis Rodman on pay per view that weekend? Nothing like that would have ever happened in the Crockett promotion. Any time there was money to be made they made sure they got every dime out of it especially if it was for the world title. Imagine the heat Hogan vs Goldberg would have had if it was building for even a month instead of a week. We could possibly be talking about WCW being around a couple years longer.

Crockett created stars, albeit most of them were stars from another territory who already had an established gimmick. Still that's more than can be said about Bischoff. Out of the entire nWo angle the only people who came out of it looking better than they did when they went in were DDP and Goldberg. That is almost unacceptable to a certain point when you have a heel stable running rabid over the company for 3 years and only two people came out of it more over than they were when they went in. Benoit should have been challenging for the strap after his performance in the war games match. Sting could have quite possibly been looked at in the same light as Austin, Rock and Hogan if things would have just went the way they were supposed to. The Giant should have been a much bigger star than he was after the whole thing. Raven and his flock should have been the next heels up challenging Sting. The list just goes on and on of all the opportunities WCW had with the nWo that they just blew

Ultimately I feel that Crockett had a much better product. Due to me being a child watching as it happened I loved the nWo and to this day nothing entertains me the way that they did. However, I feel like the nWo should be looked at as an angle and not an era. You look at it as an angle and you have some excellent stuff, if you look at it as an era you have a lot of missed opportunities.

 

[Sweettre15]

Man, after looking back at this thread, I gotta ask...

Does anyone else here remember what it was like watching StarrCade 83 for the first time?

I actually watched it couple weeks ago and man does it hold up well IMO. It really epitomizes what I loved about JCP and that's that it seemed to master the art of the big fight feel while still being a wrestling heavy product.

The whole "Flare for the Gold" thing was just that...Gold. Flair and Dusty kept their promos to each other short and sweet yet it built the tension more than most promos do for WWE PPVs. not to mention, despite some filler: Piper vs Valentine, Steamboat/Youngblood vs Brisco Brothers, and Flair/Race made the PPV awesome.

I never got that feeling from any of the Bischoff/Nitro Era PPVs despite it having the better productions values and being more mainstream of a product

 

[JoeyJoeJoe]

Man, after looking back at this thread, I gotta ask...

Does anyone else here remember what it was like watching StarrCade 83 for the first time?

I actually watched it couple weeks ago and man does it hold up well IMO. It really epitomizes what I loved about JCP and that's that it seemed to master the art of the big fight feel while still being a wrestling heavy product.

The whole "Flare for the Gold" thing was just that...Gold. Flair and Dusty kept their promos to each other short and sweet yet it built the tension more than most promos do for WWE PPVs. not to mention, despite some filler: Piper vs Valentine, Steamboat/Youngblood vs Brisco Brothers, and Flair/Race made the PPV awesome.

I never got that feeling from any of the Bischoff/Nitro Era PPVs despite it having the better productions values and being more mainstream of a product

Some of it holds up great, and some doesn't. I think you have to be an old school fanatic and history buff to really get into the main event, to be honest. It was a plodding match and the addition of Kiniski and his impact on the ending made the finish look awkward.

On the other hand, Piper/Valentine and Steamboat & Youngblood/Briscos were classics that I think everyone can find SOMETHING to enjoy.

The one that I always go back to and enjoy is Starrcade 85. Magnum TA Vs. Tully Blanchard is still the bar by which I Quit matches are set, IMO. You also had The RNR Express Vs. The Russians and a better than average Flair Vs. Rhodes main event (it was certainly better than that mess they made of Starrcade 84).

 

[MrTDG]

mcdonalds makes the most money from cheeseburgers, but it doesnt mean mcdonalds cheeseburgers taste the best. also wrestling is an art, and all art is subjective. but despite what i just said, i do agree, nwo was the best, but i could still enjoy both eras

I agree. It's a slippery slope arguing that a product is better simply because it makes the most money. There are so many examples that would destroy that idea it's not even funny.

I'd take JCP hands down over the NWO. That era represented everything that was good about wrestling. The titles, the feuds, the top guys, the mid card, the managers, the builds, etc.

The NWO as a concept is a great idea. The initial execution of it was brilliant. As time went on, it fizzled. It never truly delivered. I'll compare the top heel faction of JCP, the Horseman to the NWO. One of the main reasons I like the Horseman over the NWO is because it helped create new stars. Magnum T.A., Sting, Dusty Rhodes, the Road Warriors to a lesser extent, Barry Windham, Lex Luger, Ricky Morton, among others became big stars due in part to their feuds with the Horseman. There were also other angles of relevance that went on. The week to week booking and builds were great. This truly was my favorite era of wrestling.

The Bischoff era had its high points, but the fact is, feuds generally did not deliver. Things went on too long. Not all of the titles were valued. Yes, technically the NWO made more money, but to quote the Authority, the JCP era is what's best for business.