Where is the heat? Good v Bad or in the middle?

[Lee]

Ok so we have our heels, Edge, Orton, Jericho etc they can get heat, but where is it? We hear boos for Jericho etc but it is a bit of a mix of the crowd. I didn't realise how much heat was lost until I was watching this old clip.

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That is not canned heat, not piped in that is genuine heel heat that went in week in and week out. The RTC could gain that as they were 'the bad guys' it was clear cut, they were the bad guys trying to stop 'our fun.' You would have the hero and the villain, cheers v boos. So now you have the likes of Orton and Jericho, who we can empathise with, we're not going to boo them as they're not quite clear cut a bad guy as we used to have.

SO I ask you, fellow wrestlezoners, is the WWE missing a trick by having clear cut bad guys/good guys which would get the crowd behind the hero and against the villain...or would you prefer it more the way things currently are?

 

[Tenta]

It's a very good question, actually. I think it boils down to two things, in particular.

1. The RTC was a group notorious for getting "X-Pac heat", in my opinion. People didn't boo X-Pac because they thought he was a good heel; People would boo X-Pac because we generally were extremely annoyed with him, and wanted to see him go away. In that same vein, The RTC was a group we really didn't want to see on our television, I'd argue. When you think about it, you had Stevie Richards, Bull Buchanon, Val Venis, The Godfather, and Ivory. Do any of those characters really scream to you "heat seeker"? These were average, at best, wrestlers that happened to have the world's most annoying gimmick. I mean, listen to that fucking music. That was perhaps the most annoying entrance music I've ever heard. And all of these men, with the exception of Steven Richards, didn't have too much too offer on the mic. That mixture of ineptitude in the ring and the microphone, mixed with how annoying that damn gimmick was, made it a point to completely hate the gimmick of RTC, and to have people boo the living piss out of these individuals. These people, by themselves, couldn't attract flies if they were coated with honey. So using RTC, I feel, is quite the extreme case in this matter. Though you are on to something about a wrestler's ability to gain heat, as compared to wrestlers today. So with that in mind;

2. Wrestling fans, particularly us, love Chris Jericho. We just do, because of his incredible work in the ring and on the microphone. Besides that, we have been given glimpses of what Chris Jericho is like outside of the ring. We've watched the VH1 shows which has Chris as a commentator, and for whatever reason, we just like Chris. He's funny, he's charismatic, and he has the ability to entertain you. True, that isn't his character, but the fact is that we realize the person that he portrays on television is a character. It's not the true Chris Jericho, or at least the Chris Jericho that we've witnessed in the real world, such as in shows on VH1 and on Larry King Live. We know that Chris is an articulate man with a generally charismatic personality. Therefore, we like how good Chris portrays his character, and thus, we can't help but cheer Chris Jericho. We feel compelled to, as a way to show that we appreciate the job that he is doing. We know that he's doing terrific work, and while the mark loves the character, the smark in all of us also finds his work appealing, and can't help but cheer the man. It's the same as my Disney Villain theory. We may be scared of Disney Villains as kids, but now that we're adults, we love these Disney Villains because of how well crafted we are, and how much we enjoy them. I'd go into further description, but I'll give an example in another thread, tying Randy Orton to the character Scar from The Lion King. Anyway, it's a combination of these two things, in my opinion.

 

[draven_dx]

I think the reason why the lines are so blurred is actually fairly simple. EVERYONE can relate to one of the characters in one way or another. Whether it be through Trips and defending the family honor, Orton and his mental illness, Miz and his trying to break through a career ceiling and make a name for himself. Today's world has desensitized us all in most aspects and we feel empathy for the "heal" nowadays. I personally like the Orton character for his "don't give a shit attitude" and Trips for his defending his family. I would do the same as Trips as far as defending my family in every way possible. I like Orton for almost the opposite reason though as his attitude comes across the EXACT opposite of mine. I'd love to be able to say screw all of you people to the people I deal with in real life, but it's just not personality. It's the same reasoning that people would go nuts for Austin and still do. He's the working man's working man and everyone would love to do to their boss what he did. It's all a matter of personal perspective and empathy in the end. Am I off base here?

 

[BernacK6]

This is the best post I've ever read on Wrestlezone. Here's my view on this subject: the poster of this thread, the two responders, and myself are all over 21 years old. We range from 9-16 years old during everyone's favorite era: The Attitude Era. From 1997-2001 (McMahon's purchase of WCW), faces were defined by Vince McMahon's intervention. The guys who were getting screwed over on TV and defying odds at PPVs were the guys we were SUPPOSED to cheer for....Austin, Rock, HHH (post WM14-pre McMahon-Helmsly era). The guys we were supposed to hate got every bit of our fury. We hated it when they won, we despised their tactics, etc.

Today's WWE is different in this regard: fans our age are now mixed in with the group of people 9-16 years old right now. We've all been watching wrestling for so long that we understand why we watch. We watch for a great story, charismatic in-ring action, compelling rivalries. WWE can write whatever they want, fans decide who is heel and who is face. John Cena is beloved by a smaller percentage of fans 21-30, but since audiences are half ages 9-19, Cena gets the pops Chris Jericho should be getting. Chris Jericho is the best thing in the WWE right now, yet, he's booed. Why is he booed? He antagonizes the crowds, puts down the fan favorites, berades those who don't necessarily deserve it. We know this is what he is supposed to be doing, and because he does it well, we appreciate it. Because there is a large amount of dedicated fans approaching 30, we know it is OK to enjoy heels, and our cheers make them tweeners. CM Punk is not a heel. He has never cheated to win, never utilized a teammate to steal a victory from a super-face, or done anything close to how Edge won 95% of his matches in 2008. He cashed in MITB at the appropriate moment...Hardy's pissed because the WWE doesn't give him a chance to hold a top championship for more than 1 month (or in this case 10 minutes). So Punk has to sit there and listen to Hardy cry. I have stated before that Jeff Hardy is the most important superstar on any roster because of how over he is. This feud with Punk didn't have to be this way...it could have been a real super face vs. face feud, taking place at a B PPV that may have taken off into a real rivalry, albeit a respectful feud (a la Hardy-HHH 2007-2008).

To conclude, educated fans who don't come on Wrestlezone to bitch about everything understand that we are allowed to cheer for whomever we want in this era. There is no head to head competition for WWE, so the product is currently designed to change the face of wrestling in the future....cheer who you want, boo who you want, just watch and be passionate.

 

[Alanson]

As Bernack said.. we're all getting old pretty much. 2009 WWE reminds me alot of early 90's WWF. It has pretty much went back to hero vs villain, especially for the kids. For example hero being Cena, Villain Orton. I found the attitude era to be more who we can relate to. You had DX .. rebels against the rules.. many could relate. Austin.. many people would love to treat their boss that way. Bret Hart.. pride for his country, many Canadians like myself could relate. The list goes on. Now, i don't think there is one guy on the roster i could really relate to, gimmick wise.

As to how i prefer it? Well i wish the attitude days would come back.. and faces and heels are more "real". Won't happen though for a long time.

 

[It's...Baylariat!]

The main reason for the lack of heat is that the FACES aren't doing enough to get proper heat to the top heels. Edge is a tweener and needs to go after someone who's a completely over face and destroy them. Jeff Hardy's a face, but is also not exactly known as dependable and the smart marks tend to lean toward not cheering at all. Jericho gets great heat because he constantly attacks the fans with smart words and promises he can't cash. He's playing the 'I'm doing what's best for you, whether you like it or not.' character. It's great. Orton's slowly becoming a good heel, but he needs to stop beating up on people that the fans are tired of. Beating HHH and Batista doesn't elevate you as a heel or draw heat. All Orton's done is rid the WWE of people that most fans are tired of anyway. Miz is another person who gets heel heat. He's a cocky, arrogant guy who is warped into believing he's beaten Cena six times just by calling him out.

IMO, I think we need better FACES! Besides Cena and Mysterio, I can't name a face that gets a solid pop from the crowd. MVP's reactions are non existent. Morrison is in the process of gaining some momentum, but not quite there yet. The rest of the so-called 'faces' aren't over enough with the crowd to gain a good pop. Wrestlers like Stone Cold and The Rock bucked authority constantly. The reason they were so over is because they catered to the fans and did what the fans wanted to do...disrespect authority and drink beer/used great catchphrases.

Bottom line is when you're top face was the top heel less than three or four years ago, there's something wrong. HHH was as hated as anyone in the WWE, and now, he's supposed to be the top babyface? Really?