When the old guys retire?! | WrestleZone Forums

When the old guys retire?!

The Gribbler

Gribble me this, Gribble me that...
Okay, I have been reading these forums for a long time now and one thing that pops up continuously that drives me insane is the phrase "When the old guys retire....such and such star will be able to take to the main event"

Now I must ask the question of all of you, is this the way it really should be?

I watched WWE for a long time and I found that all the while new stars where being created and pushed to the moon, but it seems in this day and age that the only time new stars are made is when the WWE begins to worry that the old hands cant go anymore.

It is irritating me no end.

Case in point, the various pushes being given to Sheamus, Miz, Morrison and Kofi now that Shawn Micheals, the Undertaker and Triple H are beginning to slow down.

Back in the attitude era (god rest its holy name) I was a fan of at least three or four guys in each tier of the card. Even the lower card had someone I liked. In this era I watch the lower card and cringe wondering how the hell the WWE will continue if this is their standard.

Should the WWE not be constantly pushing the next star? Constantly bringing the future into the present?

Or are they right in waiting like they are?

Comments and Opinions please.

P.S. Sorry if this is in the wrong section but I couldn't think of a particular show this would belong to.
 
I think they are doing the right thing. The guys you mentioned have not retired yet and still have about 2 years left at least. Why are people so desperate now. How long has Morrison waited since he debuted in WWE as Nitro? How long did the Miz wait until he started becoming more credible and became awesome?

People now want every superstar that debuts to be in the World Title picture in a matter of months. It's like go to Raw, win U.S. championship gold and get inserted right into the World Title picture. It does not work like that and it shouldn't. The only superstar I remember doing something similar to this was CM Punk who won ECW gold and then went to Raw and his first night there I believe he wins the gold. Not to forget Shaemus who just got inserted right into the title picture.

I think WWE worries about creating stars when they know that someone is worthy or when it's just their time to move up. Not when the old people retire because if that was the case than why do we have guys like Shaemus and CM Punk in the title picture. Nobody retired only Jeff but he is taking some time off not retiring. It's just a matter of crowd reaction and mic skills(most of the time) hence the reason that Swagger and Dolph havn't made it past midcard. Swagger looks fucking weird in that attire and he gets little reaction. Dolph looks badass, but people are not getting behind him because he is a heel a boring heel. I think starting out their careers as heels is what stops a lot of guys from reaching main event status faster. There is exceptions of course.
 
It's always been and will be a double edged sword. Veterans in the ME scene get stale, yet the younger guys aren't ready for that level.
The problem with today is that there are no "marque" stars anymore. There's not one guy wrestling today that sells PPVs by hisself.
As the old guard dies out the young have to pick up the pieces whether or not they're ready. I feel that the WWE is doing the right thing with the Miz and a few other guys. In the next couple years they will be the top tier, ready or not.
 
Times have changed and what was new and innovative back in the attitude era has been done to death and is stale now. You gotta think, back in the attitude era, most of the stuff they did was completely new to wrestling and thus interest in the company peaked and stars were born easily from that. In my opinion, it's much harder for todays superstars to reach that star status then it was 10 or 15 years ago, especially with the PG rating.

That being said, I do agree with you that they should be pushing these guys earlier and making the lower card more competitive so they have people in line to make the next step. I think WWE is realizing this and has made efforts recently to get guys ready to take over. However, I don't think it's as big of an emergency as you might think. Shawn and Taker probably have at least 2 to 3 years left in them before they leave, especially with their light schedule. I don't think Triple H is anywhere near ready to give up being the top dog, and he's likely to be there until his body just can't go anymore. You also gotta consider that they already have quite a few young guys that are ready to lead this business, such as Cena, Orton, CM Punk, and even Edge and Jericho still have quite a few years left. The WWE is doing just fine right now. Now if you would've asked this question a year ago, I might have been worried.
 
I said it before, Its not about pushing the mid card to the main event right away. It is about making the mid card look credible. So that when the older guys do decide to retire, we will believe that the young guys have what it takes to be main eventing.

GRIBBLER You said it. In the days of the attitude era we cared about guys in every tier. WHY? because in the attitude era the line between mid card and main event superstars was blurred. I don't remember looking at guys like The Rock, Austin, and HHH and calling them mid card wrestlers. But by our standards today thats what we would be calling them. At that time those superstars weir building their careers fighting for the IC championship the so called mid card belt.

The reason why most of the WWE universe dos not care about the mid card guys, or believe they could be main event is because the writers have not given us a chance to believe in the them. HOW? Because one, the mid card guys are given little or no time at all to show us their mic work. I now they might not be good at first but they will get better if given the opportunity. Edge was not that great at first but look at him now. When Punk was getting his first push the main event guys would not shut up long enough for us to see what he could do on the mic. Its amazing what happens when given a opportunity. And two, most the time when they are facing a main event guy they most always get squashed. eg.. Punk vs Undertaker, Punk vs Cena, Ted vs Cena. In the attitude era when a mid card guy faced a main event guy, win or lose, the two of them would come out looking credible. A good competitive mach makes us believe that the mid card could be main event.

My answer to your question is yes, the writers should be pushing the DESERVING mid card guys towards the main event by making them look credible. I know that not all the young superstars are ready for the main event. But guys like Christian, Punk, Miz, MVP, Morrison, Ted, Cody, Kingston, Swagger.... they really need to start making them look credible in our eyes. no more squashing them when facing a main event guy.

I don't know about you but I can not wait till after mania. HHH, HBK, and Undertaker are taking time off. There is going to be a lot of room in the main event. iTS GOING TO BE SINK OR SWIM FOR SOME UPER MID CARD GUYS.
 
Okay, I have been reading these forums for a long time now and one thing that pops up continuously that drives me insane is the phrase "When the old guys retire....such and such star will be able to take to the main event"

Now I must ask the question of all of you, is this the way it really should be?


ummm well yes. its true in real life its true in the world of pro wrestling. trust me it suck being better than the old guys who get paid more, more days off, and are respected while the younger guy works his ass off. just like any other real life job situation. duh. do you have a job/career?
 
I think that wwe should not push any more superstars. People like Jack Swagger, Kofi Kingston, Sheamus, and John Moorison have been pushed and lost energy and failed.

People like Undertaker, Triple H, and Shawn Michaels still have it in them. Even though they are getting old they should be pushed more.

There a few superstars who has been pushed and did well John Cena, Randy Orton, and Jeff Hardy
 
ummm well yes. its true in real life its true in the world of pro wrestling. trust me it suck being better than the old guys who get paid more, more days off, and are respected while the younger guy works his ass off. just like any other real life job situation. duh. do you have a job/career?

Im not saying that they should be pushed ahead of the older guys, but maybe put in a semi-main event position.

As someone above stated, in the attitude Era the midcard still had marquee value. I feel the WWE should be working all the time to push new stars even when they don't need to. They never know when they might need a fresh face or when a developed star may fall from grace.

The more near main event stars you have, the better for your company because every tier of your show will have its stars. Therefore there is no boring lull in the middle of a show where noone gives a flying fuck who is wrestling.
 
First of all yes i do think that they should be pushing new superstars into the main event. They are the future of the business so if they aren't pushed now and given rubs by the older guys now, in the future when all the old guys are gone how will anyone take them seriously?

I think what they are doing with these new guys like Morrison, Miz and Kofi is good, giving them just a little push and a little rub off the older guys so people will start to see that 'hey these guys can actually go with the top guys'.

And with the point of the mid and lower cards being boring now, i think that could partly be the 'wwe universes' fault. They just dont care about the mid and lower crads that much, and when people dont care about it, why would creative waste their time trying to push these cards?
 
I think that wwe should not push any more superstars. People like Jack Swagger, Kofi Kingston, Sheamus, and John Moorison have been pushed and lost energy and failed.

People like Undertaker, Triple H, and Shawn Michaels still have it in them. Even though they are getting old they should be pushed more.

There a few superstars who has been pushed and did well John Cena, Randy Orton, and Jeff Hardy

How do you figure that they have failed? Sheamus had a fairly decent run as champion, not amazing but a much better run than CM Punk or Orton had when they first got the belt. He beat credible opponents such as Cena and Orton. He has never been beaten since coming to Raw (and I think we're supposed to forget about the Shelton Benjamin loss on ECW) in one on one competition and it took the Elimination Chamber and that features steel, chain and 5 other top guys. There is no shame in losing that match. That elimination itself has led to a revenge storyline at Wrestlemania against Triple H who will always be one of the top guys in the company.

I'd just like to point out that the last time Triple H was not in a World or WWE title match in a Wrestlemania event he participated in was Wrestlemania X-Seven where he fought the Undertaker. (The only exception being Wrestlemania 23 when he was out injured) so this is kind of a big deal for Sheamus to be the guy to take Triple H out of the Wrestlemania spotlight so to speak. Sheamus is also getting legitimate heat from the opening line of his music. His heat has gone beyond the 'Get a tan' insults and I'd say there is a good chance of him getting the Win at Wrestlemania. I'd say it's unlikely but I wouldn't put my money on it either way. I'd like it to happen to further the feud.

As for Kingston, He has an unlucky roster to work with and hopefully the Trade that is coming shortly after Wrestlemania will benefit him. Just look at the main event roster right now. How many top heels could Kingston work with to really solidify him as a main eventer? Lets cross out Orton as that story has passed and I will also cross out Sheamus as the match would be two relative rookies against each other which just wouldn't sell? Any other main event heels on Raw? No. Kingston could hopefully have a feud with Jericho, Edge or Punk sometime in the near future. I can't see Edge staying face long... but then I said the same about Triple H. Who knows.

John Morrison, and although you didn't mention him, R-Truth seem to be on the path to the Main Event by being placed in the Tag Titles match at Wrestlemania. By giving Ziggler the nod over them in the MITB qualifier, it actually allows them to avoid the mid card stigma that match grants its losers. Only the winner in that match prospers. Occasionally folk like Kingston shine through it and do get a later push but it's very rare. MITB is mid card hell, the runners up medal for Wrestlemania. Sure, you were there but no one gives a damn. Looking at this years MITB, Christian just has to win it. It'd make no sense for anyone else to do so.

The only issue I have with Morrison and Truth is that it is a wasted Wrestlemania for both of them and for CM Punk as well. It's an obvious set up for a Morrison or Truth heel turn and rivalry. Punk is continuing to be punished by the Undertaker's backstage stroke just like he was at the Rumble (eliminated 7th), at the Elimination chamber (eliminated second, by Mysterio who didn't even use the West Coast Pop or anything equally impressive) and now being given what will either be the first or second match on the card and is pretty much handed the win but that will go unnoticed because the storyline isn't actually about him.

Completely off topic, back on track: The Morrison/ Truth story will be a good upper mid card feud for both of them and they will both benefit greatly from it.

The only one I agree with is Jack Swagger. Swagger is 27 and looks it. He cannot carry off the High School Jock character they have given him. It doesn't work. His entrance is ridiculous. I don't even know what his chest pound dance thing actually is supposed to mean. The Push up thing works but it's still a bit... tacky. Again WWE have gone down the exact same thing the do with almost every amateur-turned-pro guy they get and made them have that All-American gimmick complete with a one piece and constant talk about how good that makes it. The WWE need to watch the South Park spoof episode as that explains it perfectly. Nobody who watches WWE gives a damn about 'Real Wrassling.' Kurt Angle is the only one who has made it work... because he was the first to do it. The only other successes are Brock Lesnar and Bobby Lashley... and they only escaped the stereotype by falling into another... the monster powerhouse. Swagger needs a facelift. He's a former ECW champion and I enjoyed that run. I think a move to Smackdown! would do him good.

I do actually want to hear your reasons why you called these guys failures though... I just can't see it.
 
I think WWE is doing what they've always done, kept the main event guys in the main event and the future main eventers in the mid/lower card. Everyone seems angry that these young guys who have been in wwe for a few years aren't getting the same push guys like shawn michaels, undertaker, and triple h, who have been they're for like twenty years (15 for triple h). Thats just absurd these new guys have to wait their turn, these old guys deserve they're spotlight, I think after all the years they suffered and sacrificed, all the great matches they've been in, i think they deserve to be in the main event at all times. And all these guys have barely lost a step, you mean to tell me you get more excited to see Shelton Benjamin vs Dolph Ziggler than Undertaker vs HBK? Come on thats just fucking stupid. These young guys will have there day when they EARN it, Cena, Edge, Orton, Batista, Rey, Triple H, HBK, were all in they're situation 5, 10, 20 years ago, they have earned their spots. And plus plenty of young guys are getting some moderate pushes CM Punk, Morrison, Kofi, Miz, Dibiase Jr., and Cody have all got decent pushes. How about giving Kane a fucking push by the way? he's been a midcarder for 15 fucking years.
 
If the younger wrestlers want to start taking main events away from the "old guys", they need to actually take them. They need to outwrestle them, they need to out mic them, they need to prove they are better than the old guys. As soon as you start talking about inheriting the main event, you are already going on the wrong track. Main event status isn't something that should be given, it needs to be EARNED. If wrestlers don't want to bust their asses to improve, to show Vince they are ready, they don't deserve the main event, period. Shawn Michaels, Triple H, Undertaker, Cena and Orton have earned it. You aren't given the main event because someone retires, you earn the main event on your own merits. (Unless your name is Dave Batista, in which case its only because Vince likes you for some completely unknown reason, despite you sucking ass in the ring, mic, and everything else)
 
If the younger wrestlers want to start taking main events away from the "old guys", they need to actually take them. They need to outwrestle them, they need to out mic them, they need to prove they are better than the old guys.

Its really hard to beat someone on the mic when they have 8-10 minutes to work their catchphrase in and work the crowd and you only get 8-10 seconds.

Thats the difference between the midcard today and in the attitude era. In the attitude era the midcard got significant mic and feud time. These days they would rather waste 10 minutes on Batista saying NOTHING then give the midcard a chance to get over.

I mean their laxing up a bit now, but thats really case in point since they are only doing it because their main event is getting older and staler every day.

Just My Opinion
 
The old guys are the guys that currently, people want to see and the younger guys need to be ready to fill their shoes when they go, and that is how it should always be. As long as the guys on the top are still what the folks want to see, there's no point putting them out to pasture. Sure, in an ideal world everyone would get five minute per show on the mic, but that can't happen. It isn't what Shawn Michaels got in 1988, it isn't what Triple H got in 1996, it isn't what Batista got in 2002, and it shouldn't need to be what Swagger gets now.
 
Exactly...Shawn Michaels was a nobody when he debuted. He was a member of a tag team that nobody cared about (yet), there was no reason to believe at all that he would develop into perhaps the greatest all around wrestler ever. Even with the popularity the Rockers gained, when he went heel and went solo, it took him forever to climb that mountain. He worked his ass off day after day, and finally, it paid off. Shawn earned his spot through years of hard work, and he continues to work his ass off. That's why Shawn is still in the spotlight. When Mark Calloway was in WCW, as Mean Mark Callus, there was no reason to think he would ever become a "phenom". Yet, here we are, 2010, and the Undertaker is an absolute icon of wrestling. Why did he succeed? Because he worked his ass off. Triple H was once Terra Ryzing, then the Connecticut blue blood. When he was wallowing in pig slop with Henry Godwin, was there even a hint of "the Game"? Yet, there he is. Because he worked his ass off. Why did a young John Cena get the fast track to the top? Because he worked his ass off.

I am sick of the bitching about why so and so isn't getting a push, why they are getting held down...not buying it. You want the spotlight? Take it. Actually, this can all be summed up by one of Cena's many catchphrases...

"You want some? COME GET SOME!"

That, in a nutshell, is why the main eventers are the main eventers, and have been for years. Because when they wanted it, they did what they had to do to get it. They got some.
 
You cant push all the young guys at the same time. they have to face stars to get introduced to the casual fan. I kept hearing the money in the bank match is filled with jobbers. You should hate whoever says that cuz that match could have some future main eventers. all except Kane. That match is a spotfest so even if it had Kaientai too cool and apa ppl would still be entertained by the extremness lol
 
Thw difference between the old guys retiring and the new guys stepping up to the plate is simple, the older guys tell a story in the ring, they can put on a 20 minute match easy and not have to resort to outside interference, or gimmicks.

The new guys are more athletic, more high flying but can't tell a great story in the ring.

I didn't really notice this until I read Bret Harts book this past week and noticed he was right, how the older guys know the psychology side of the business they can tell a great story wrestling wise and make it look good, the younger guys are all high flying or brute force rookies.

WWE is in the middle of a transasional period, the HBK's Undertakers are getting their final matches against each other out the way now, before they move down the ladder to put the next generation over.
HHH's promo on Monday had me thinking the above statement is more truer then ever, when he talked about Mania 12 and getting crushed, and he's right, these young guys NEED to go out there and look dominant and hungery for the top spots
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Members online

No members online now.

Forum statistics

Threads
174,846
Messages
3,300,837
Members
21,727
Latest member
alvarosamaniego
Back
Top