When it's all said and done...

[shattered dreams]

They've been averaging around 0.8 the past month or so.

Aces and Zero Point Eights.

For the last 4 shows the ratings have been .86,.92,.77 on a national holiday and .99. For the comparable shows last year not including a national holiday the ratings were .95,.97,.99,.85. Average over last 4 shows .885, prior year .94. Half a ratings point is barely relevant.

It isn't a huge drop but TNA never hits a 1.2 or higher anymore. A 1.0 is pretty much their ceiling and has been for months now.

They have done 1.2 three times in 2013. They did a 1.1 less than 2 months ago.

 

[Nate DaMac]

The Aces and 8s story got me back into TNA for a little while and I was digging what they were doing with AJ. It was looking like a direct ripoff off the Sting/nWo angle with far lesser talent. AJ is no Sting circa 1997 and Bully Ray is certainly no Hollywood Hogan. As expected, the story started going off the rails, the Main Event Mafia came back for no apparent reason, and I'm back to not giving a shit anymore.

 

[klunderbunker]

For the last 4 shows the ratings have been .86,.92,.77 on a national holiday and .99. For the comparable shows last year not including a national holiday the ratings were .95,.97,.99,.85. Average over last 4 shows .885, prior year .94. Half a ratings point is barely relevant.



They have done 1.2 three times in 2013. They did a 1.1 less than 2 months ago.

Oh.

Well the Aces still suck anyway.

 

[Coco]

RVD was a champ, and couldn't do much to help bolster anything.

In defence of RVD, Sting and Jarrett and Hogan and Abyss were all treated as bigger deals than him at various points throughout his reign. He was never really THE guy.

 

[klunderbunker]

In defence of RVD, Sting and Jarrett and Hogan and Abyss were all treated as bigger deals than him at various points throughout his reign. He was never really THE guy.

Which is a lot of the problem for Bully. He's just a supporting character in Sting and Hogan's big story.

 

[Con T.]

In defence of RVD, Sting and Jarrett and Hogan and Abyss were all treated as bigger deals than him at various points throughout his reign. He was never really THE guy.

Very true. Then allow me to clarify myself.

RVD, Sting, Hogan, and Jarrett (no, I won't even bother with Abyss) couldn't do much to help anything.

Actually, you could probably insert that into just about any random point over the last three years, and this would be correct

 

[FlexAmerican Dynamite]

A&8's is still the worst fucking thing TNA has done in since the Immortal Storyline, I don't which lasted longer but both are just horrid.

Bully ironically did Bully his way into him and Devon getting this latest run of theirs though. Time definitely could have been spent on better things.

 

[Lowdown]

One thing that puzzles me, if they haven't been able to pay talent like before, why the hell are they still going on the road? I understand that the exposure is good, but it costs to be on the move like that. And in the end the ratings have been low? As far as Bully goes, I don't think he's the problem, but the A&8's have run its course. Like KB has repeatedly stated, it took way too long for the buildup, and now one of t it's major players in DOC is gone.

 

[The Crock]

I don't really blame TNA for trying to cash in on Bully Ray, who was one of the top heels in wrestling for a while there. They don't have too many legitimate stars who can be world champion anymore (Jeff Hardy amd Kurt Angle can't always be champion, can they?), but I still think it's high time for AJ Styles to take the title off of Bully. Styles isn't what he was a few years ago -- they really screwed up with him and Joe -- but I'll take anything to break the monotony of Aces and Eights.

Still, I don't think Bully Ray has been an awful champion, I just think he's in a difficult position. The angle took way too long to develop and they put the title on him late. If they cut the build down to 6 months, rather than a year, I think Bully's title reign starts looking a lot better.

 

[Pay Per Ghost]

Bully Ray improved vastly there and doing very good for himself, burning below the main storyline. If TNA was the alternative to WWE programming, Bully Ray's bully stuff was an alternative to TNA programming.

Him being the champion when TNA takes the mammoth step of going on the road, is maybe too much of a burden.

I still think Storm was the guy they should've pulled the trigger with. Him and Bobby Roode had a great 1 year feud going and looked all set to culminate at next years' BFG. Everythig was going dandy Roode was a great champion, Storm was murmuring under the radar seeking revenge and then...Lockdown.

 

[Poop Master Flex]

I feel Bully has gotten better but for the most part I gotta agree with ya jmt.

My knock with this storyline is it's just WAY too familiar in the land of TNA. Seriously these main event heel stables need to fuck off for a good long while. I'm pretty sure a heel stable has been TNA's top storyline for 70% of its existence. Doesn't help that there is no one interesting in Ace's and Eight's anyways although Bully was probably the best guy they had to be the leader.

 

[Mr. Artistic guy]

I don't think Bully Ray is bad at all, very good if anything. I do think the stories hav started going TNA wacky again. MEM exclusively to fight Aces n 8s, because you can't beat bikers unless you war suits. The only difference between now and, say, Lockdown is that Rampage Jackson is involved, which is not enough to sell any interest in the stretched out MEM/A8 feud. Hogan and Ray seem to be slowly going nowhere.

A8 is far better than it was during the whole build up, but it was so bad for so long that I think most people are just ready for a total revamp for iMPACT. The best they've done during the past four years is when Bobby Roode was running the show, and at that time there was not rally any stables. TNA should have learnt a little something from that.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Well to be fair they're also way behind on money because they don't have regular monthly PPV revenue coming in which could be upwards of $100,000 a month out of their pockets. The cost cutting could help offset these problems a lot but yeah there's little excuse for that.

As for Ray.....yeah he's a problem. Here's the problem at the end of the day: TNA's main story for the last six months has been the Dudley Boys vs. Sting and Hulk Hogan with some love story involving the most annoying non-celebrity on the planet in Brooke Hogan on the side. It took eight months to get to the point of Aces and 8's and now it's just a glory trip for the Dudleys with D-Von barely being able to beat a lawyer. That's not going to draw in any casual fans other than a nostalgia trip, which doesn't work long term at all.

At the end of the day, TNA isn't going to draw a crowd with the Dudleys and their WWE castoffs vs. Sting as TNA's white knight for the 87th time.

I feel like I said something to the effect of despite my lack of buisness acumen/education, doing away with one of your three major revenue streams (monthly PPV) and taking on an expense such as taping on the road (likely nearly doubling your expenses) felt very much like a backwards buisness model to me. Shouldnt it be the other way around? Weeky shows in a central location, and monthly PPVs on the road? Yea? No?

I couldnt disagree with ya more JMT, much as I love you. Bully Ray is easily, by MILES, the best thing TNA has, and one of the top ten in the game today. What is wrong with TNA is the ABOMINATION of a wrestling show that they put up around him. The show on a weekly basis feels like absolute drudgery, a chore to watch. We went from one umbrella heel stable to another, even MORE boring one, so to me, it feels like FOurtune into Immortal into A&8s has been one big, long, show dominating shitfest.

Bully Ray was fucking awesome before he got drug into this fucking MESS. As much as he is a childhood hero, Hulk Hogan, and more importantly, his utterly useless daughter Brooke, have GOT to go. Have to. What exactly is brooke "in charge" of now? A division with Six wrestlers? Paying someone what im sure Hulk Hogan makes to be a fucking GM character and bore everyone to death fr five segments a night is, also, a very poor buisness model. You could get someone just as capable and infinitely less expensive for that role. Shit, he is already there. Kurt Angle. Cant stay healthy. Great worker. Versatile on the mic. Let him GM and work the occasional match. Make people show they deserve title shots by going through him. Etc etc. Bottom line, the returns on the Hogans(which are, well, nothing, since he doesnt do house show tours with them, and hasnt moved the needle a single bit) are, im guessing, not even CLOSE to what their expense is. Also, Joseph Park exists.


The list is long of shit which is awful in TNA, obvious ways to improve it / at least make it a viable alternative to WWE, and I would get into it further if there was a proper thread for it.

But to put it singuarly at the feet of easily their best guy is just silly, and smacks of personal dislike and not a hollistic veiw of this turd boat called TNA.


They have an almost completely upside down buisness model. Really think about it.

Its cool though. Thank goodness. Bully, AJ Styles, Robert Roode and the like will be fun to have in WWE.

 

[klunderbunker]

Meltzer said Impact costs $600,000 to tape two weeks worth of episodes. That's over a million bucks a month on TV alone. That flat out will not work for very long no matter how you look at it.

What's even worse is the house show Becca and I went to might have been the most fun I've ever had at a wrestling show and I've been to Raw, Smackdown, Thunder and Backlash 2006. It was cheap, accessible, fun, and they treat you like royalty. It made Becca, a person who has sworn off TNA for years, want to give them another chance. I was explaining the stories to her throughout the night to bring her up to speed and it took two sentences at most for each story.

Then we got to Aces and 8's and I tried explaining it to her. She looked at me like I had a third eye.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

Meltzer said Impact costs $600,000 to tape two weeks worth of episodes. That's over a million bucks a month on TV alone. That flat out will not work for very long no matter how you look at it.

When you could simply spend 400K on a decently produced PPV show, and likely (god, I hope) double your money back.


I thought Dixies dad was a very successfull buisnessman? How is this very simple formula seemingly lost to them? You cant ADD over a million dollars of expenses to your bottom line while at the SAME time cutting 1/4 of your major profit streams.

 

[klunderbunker]

When you could simply spend 400K on a decently produced PPV show, and likely (god, I hope) double your money back.


I thought Dixies dad was a very successfull buisnessman? How is this very simple formula seemingly lost to them? You cant ADD over a million dollars of expenses to your bottom line while at the SAME time cutting 1/4 of your major profit streams.

He is indeed. Dixie comes off like a schnook.

 

[Gelgarin]

Gee; if only there had been someone clearly and articulately explaining why going live or from the road was a dumb decision for the past, I don't know, four years.

Much as I hate being that guy I have to... wait, what am I saying? I fuckin' love being that guy. I have made post after post pointing out that TNA cannot conceivably afford to run Impact live from the road - and that doing so will provide no tangible return in the short or medium term.

I was right; everyone else contributing to the discussion was wrong. Anyone surprised?

Just to make a couple of bonus observations;

Anyone saying that TNA have done away with a significant revenue stream by dropping PPVs needs to do a spot of basic math.

This number quoted by Dave Meltzar is almost certainly fictitious and based off a quote Jim Ross gave a couple of years ago for what it would cost to take Smackdown live. The real figure is quite possibly comparable; we don't know.

The cost of live, on the road production will drop considerably the longer TNA gut it out. I still think they should drop it overnight.

 

[Lee]

Don't you defend punk when the ratings go down whenever's he champ?

 

[newwaveknight]

Bully Ray's run is gonna end soon. Hopefully to AJ Styles who i think deserves it.

i like bully ray. But what you said about ratings beind down since he became TNA's main event guy is sadly true.

WHat i think TNA should do is just go back to being the smaller company and rely on young indy wrestlers. Thats what got them famous in the first place. It wasnt Hulk Hogan who put them on the map, it was Styles, Joe, Daniels, Raven, JJ, and such.

EDIT: Also TNA should bring the 6 sided ring back. PPL say that 6 sides dosent matter but to me it does. its not just the look. But how the ring is used such as when they irish whip or run. tag matches and also theres a big space in the middle which puts focus on the wrestlers.

NNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We're really going to turn this into a "push the Originals" thread?

Dammit, haven't there been enough of these on WrestleZone?

WHY, GOD, WHY?!?!?!?!?!?!!?

Okay, now that we've got out of the way.

The problem with TNA is that, when they started, they should have actually made themselves an TRUE alternative to WWE, instead of just acting like they were. Instead of a company with entertaining storylines and the larger-than-life showmanship of the WWE, we got a glorified indy circuit/regional promotion. In the modern world of pro-wrestling, this is something that WILL NOT draw TV ratings.

Had they actually tried to keep their indy-riffic charm yet still given us the showmanship that makes WWE events memorable, casual fans MIGHT (and I emphasize that) know who A.J. Styles, Christopher Daniels, Samoa Joe, Bobby Roode, etc. are. When you say that these guys put TNA on the map, what you fail to recognize is that TNA was NEVER on the map in the first place.

Now that they are trying to expand their reach to something a little more than something regional, they need some people who the casual wrestling fan MIGHT know of. You could argue that Hogan is that guy, but that's not true either. The ratings are down simply because nobody even knows that TNA exists. Hell, I discovered it simply by flipping through channels one day, only to discover that Sting and Booker T (two of my WCW favorites) was on there. I decided to tune in regularly, and grew to love watching guys like A.J. Styles and Samoa Joe.

But Sting didn't get me to initially start watching, as Hogan won't get people to initially start watching, as Bully Ray won't get people to initially start watching, as A.J. Styles (as indy-riffic as his matches are) won't get people to initially start, just as Jesus and Stone Cold themselves won't get people to initially start watching.

 

[shattered dreams]

So they do not renew the contract of guy who has never even made mid card and cut a woman over 40 who hasn't wrestled on tv in months and the company is broke? Interesting take.

One other note on unsubstantiated rumors that we may believe. I had heard several times that TNA actually loses money on some of their non-major PPVs. You do not get all of that 50 dollars, in fact a company like TNA would be lucky to get a third of that and that is before expenses.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

So they do not renew the contract of guy who has never even made mid card and cut a woman over 40 who hasn't wrestled on tv in months and the company is broke? Interesting take.

One other note on unsubstantiated rumors that we may believe. I had heard several times that TNA actually loses money on some of their non-major PPVs. You do not get all of that 50 dollars, in fact a company like TNA would be lucky to get a third of that and that is before expenses.

Will is still more than negative 600K, or whatever we end up figuring out (admitting to) is the amount they are bleeding every month from cutting PPV and adding doing impact on the road.

 

[Gelgarin]

If a live Impact legitimately cost 600k then a live PPV cost the same or greater a quantity of money. We know for a fact that TNA were not bringing in 600k a month from their PPVs.

 

[klunderbunker]

So they do not renew the contract of guy who has never even made mid card and cut a woman over 40 who hasn't wrestled on tv in months and the company is broke? Interesting take.

One other note on unsubstantiated rumors that we may believe. I had heard several times that TNA actually loses money on some of their non-major PPVs. You do not get all of that 50 dollars, in fact a company like TNA would be lucky to get a third of that and that is before expenses.

WWE keeps approximately half of each PPV buy for something to compare it to.

 

[shattered dreams]

Will is still more than negative 600K, or whatever we end up figuring out (admitting to) is the amount they are bleeding every month from cutting PPV and adding doing impact on the road.

Clearly math isn't your strong suit.

 

[Mighty NorCal]

I was being sarcastic.

So then, is it both your contention that PPV was not a positive stream of revenue in any way?

At least we are all in agreement that Bully Ray is awesome. Except hatin' ass JMT.