What's missing?

[Ashw825]

A lot of people think that Cody Rhodes and Dolph Ziggler are the two future stars of the business. For me, I need to be fully invested in a character to also get invested in there feuds etc. Everyone knows that these are two of the best in the ring the business has. This is why I can't understand why I feel there is something missing in these two. I did a post a while back about how I think there has been a rebuilding process since Wrestlemania with the amount of talent that WWE have brought in and how excited I am for the future. But I feel Rhodes is just a guy who pulls funny faces but I don't really know why. And Dolph is a show off. That isn't enough for me to be fully invested with there characters and right now, there isn't enough to them to keep me fully interested. (This post isn't a bash towards there talents) My question to you guys is, do you think there is something missing? And if so, what would you add to there characters?

 

[#MrScissorsKick]

Their characters are just bland. Dolph Ziggler is athletic and has some in-ring talent and not bad on the mic. His problem? Being managed by Vickie Guerrero. We've seen the stars she's managed and other than edge, she's just in there it seems to kill time. Dolph isn't main event material but he could get to that point if he got rid of VG. Cody Rhodes seemingly has no character or gimmick. He looks like he's about 19. He by far has been of the worst wrestlers in 2011. He honestly looks like he just graduated high school. I don't think Rhode will get any sort of push unless he gets a manager. He's decent on the mic, but like I said before he doesn't look like a wrestler. They list him at 215 pounds and that's extremely generous because he looks like about 200-205 range. So bottom line: Ziggler needs to dump VG, Cody Rhodes needs a gimmick and a manager. Both need improved roles in their characters because like I said both are very bland.

 

[Mustang Sally]

There's nothing to be added to Cody and Dolph. I like them both, but apparently not nearly as much as WWE likes them. They're the favorite sons of the company, pushed to the sky for reasons known only to Vince McMahon and his creative team. WWE has to build the stars of tomorrow and often has to take the bull by the horns and thrust the ones they choose in front of us as much as possible in the hope that they'll catch on. Sometimes Vince "gives up" on a push, using criterion known only to him.

Cody's mega-push came first. They wrote program after program for him, desperately trying to make a star of him. Why? Who knows? Maybe because he's Dusty's son? But from "Dashing" to "Disfigured!" to "Stomping Rey Mysterio with Dusty Standing By" they gave him everything to run with while letting others sit in the back, probably wondering what Cody did to merit such favor.

Then, there's Dolph. With him, I've never seen anything like it. He's on every episode of Smackdown and Raw.....winning and losing, but always occupying a featured spot. Many of you believe he's a genuine star, but is it because you really believe this or because you figure it must be true since he's always on your TV screen...... as if they're going to make us like him by forced constant exposure?

Again, I like watching Cody and Dolph but feel that what's "missing" in both is star quality; the kind of thing you see in guys like Cena and the Rock. How do you define it? I'm sure everyone has their own definition, and that's fine. But in the case of Cody and Dolph, I feel neither man possesses that quality and WWE is trying to force us to recognize them as stars by shoving them down our throats.

 

[anvilx8]

Heres my take on this...

Dolph: Missing are his mic skills. He STILL needs Vickie to assist in his promos. He's not horrible on the mic, but he's not good enough as a punk, or orton etc, to hold his own at the main event level. Vickie may have helped for a little while.. but I think they need to get rid of vickie and let Ziggler cut his own promos.. hopefully then he'll improve. Other than that, he's got it all. IMO

Rhodes - He's missing character. Really, when I look at rhode's character.. its not that different from miz, or heel jericho, or heel orton...he just gets lost in the shuffle with all the heels. And unlike Ziggler, his in-ring wrestling isn't as great to make him stand out.

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

I don't think either guy is really missing much except a nice lengthy fued.

The best thing for these two would be to be thrown into a long program with one another. This would probably require one of them to turn face. Have them go back and forth on one another in a program that spans about 2-3 months and culminates in a match at a top ppv. From there, each guy could move on to challenge for the two world titles and than when each guy is established, you bring them back and have the same fued but this time as main eventers.

 

[Playboy Stevie V]

Plain and simple Cody and Dolph need a change, like a face turn. It would have been huge if for instance Dolph or Cody made the save for Jerry Lawler during his cage match with Punk, instead of Cena. It would have got them instant pops. Missed opportunity for sure.

 

[Nick_Mundus]

I think both are great talents but it's really hard to find the complete package. I feel like there are so many more potential stars that aren't being used properly (Tyson Kidd, WADE BARRETT, and Trent Baretta come to mind) because wwe is focusing on the same 8 superstars every night. Cody and Dolph being in that group

 

[JaylisJayP]

Imo Rhodes was great when he was wearing the mask, and at that point he was much better than Ziggler has ever been.

But I can't repeat myself enough, you have 2 potential huge stars....invest in some acting classes. Give these top potential guys a chance, give them some acting lessons.

 

[MTL722]

Their characters are just bland. Dolph Ziggler is athletic and has some in-ring talent and not bad on the mic. His problem? Being managed by Vickie Guerrero.

I don't think Rhode will get any sort of push unless he gets a manager. He's decent on the mic, but like I said before he doesn't look like a wrestler. They list him at 215 pounds and that's extremely generous because he looks like about 200-205 range. So bottom line: Ziggler needs to dump VG, Cody Rhodes needs a gimmick and a manager. Both need improved roles in their characters because like I said both are very bland.

So your fix for Dolph is to get rid of his manager and your fix for Cody is to give him one? I sense flawed logic here.

Anyway, Dolph will be fine because he will leave Vickie. Problem is, as soon as he loses that heat magnet, the fans are going to cheer him. The WWE can't take Vickie away until they want to turn Ziggler. Dolph has earned the respect from the crowd for his ability to put on a show even in pointless one-off matches. Not to compare the 2, but Shawn Michaels had the same problem when he was with Sensational Sherri. A good feud will do wonders for Dolph

Now to Cody. I honestly don't know how to fix him but a manager is 100% not the fix. Cody was best when he was getting cheap heat by insulting the crowd. It was cheap heat, but still heat. Now, he's irrelevant as a singles competitor and is looking like the "Janetty" of the Rhodes Scholars. I think people might need to just get over Cody being a World Champion.

At one point I remember being asked by my brother to imagine Cody with the World title. His point was it didnt look right. At the time I disagreed because he seemed over as a villian. Why? He had the microphone and as CM Punk said, the microphone is power. WWE has clipped Codys wings by not only taking the mic out of his hands, but also forgetting to give him any kind of gimmick. Dolph is at least "The Showoff". What is Cody? He's a villain with no reason to be one. He might as well just turn face and use his name to get over

 

[Wally Dangerously]

Now, he's irrelevant as a singles competitor and is looking like the "Janetty" of the Rhodes Scholars.

This is a good point, and I agree. I'm going to look at the success that Sandow has enjoyed in such a short period of time and tie it in with Rhodes and Ziggler. I think part of the reason that Sandow is overshadowing Rhodes and Ziggler, and most of the other heels in WWE right now, is that he's an old-school heel. He's not interested in getting the fans to like him, and that's key. Also, his gimmick hasn't been done in a while, and it seems fresh.

For my first point, I'm not saying that Rhodes and Ziggler want the fans to like them, but at this point there are a lot of people who cheer for Ziggler and Rhodes at live events. This is not supposed to happen to a genuine heel. Heels are supposed to generate serious heat. Vickie generates some heat for Dolph, but the storyline from last year where he was playing around with dropping Vickie made him seem sympathetic in the eyes of fans. I feel like Dolph could do a face-turn soon, and for me, that takes away some of his clout as a heel. I think it's harder to sympathize with Rhodes, so he strikes me as a more legitimate heel, but he's still being drowned out by Sandow, which brings me to my second point.

Sandow has a somewhat fresh gimmick. "The Genius" Lanny Poffo is the last superstar that I can think of in WWE's past who's gimmick is similar to Sandow's: the intellectual, almost effeminate-yet still devious heel. The bright pink tights add to the garishness of his character and the way he holds the mic like a glass of sherry also add to his persona. Rhodes used to have a good gimmick when he was the disfigured Cody Rhodes, but now he seems bland. Ziggler also seems bland. Basically, they're both pretty much cocky heels, and those are a dime a dozen.

As for what's missing, that's a tough one. I agree that Ziggler needs to do some more talking, because he seems quite quick-witted. Other than that, I just don't know. I think if he successfully cashes in for the WHC, he'll dump Vickie, and this will be good for him. However, this will also make him more sympathetic to the fans who have been waiting for it, and I see a face-turn from him within the next year. Because I think he'll be in a transition phase soon, I don't think much more can be done to make him a better heel.

As for Rhodes, I wish he had never dropped the disfigured gimmick. I just don't know what can be done for him right now. I wanted him to hold the IC title for at least a year, but the loss at WM 28 really took away a lot of his steam. With all of the young talent flooding the WWE right now, he may just end up being lost in the shuffle.

 

[Attitude Era Junkie]

God I am so sick of people putting down Ziggler like he isn't that special at all. Since nobody else will defend him then I will!

YES he does have GOOD or even great mic skills. I think the WWE just holds him back. Anyone who thinks he is only just "pretty good" in the ring must either be in denial or have their standards set WAY too high! Anyway back to his promo skills.....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a0HLOztZ9To

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SYkv5pMndk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?NR=1&v=-xtZktb4fMc&feature=fvwp

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfwxnB5LqM8&feature=relmfu

There's more videos but maybe now people will shut up about it and move on to something else.

 

[IT Factor]

If we're being quite honest, both guys don't have the entire package going for them. For Dolph, despite being billed as a "show off" he's about as interesting as a block of wood. Showing off must mean hitting a shitload of elbows and not having sensible ring psychology. While Dolph has moments of being great in the ring, he always does others things to detract from that and lessen the impact. It's not what you do, it's when you do it. Dolph hasn't learned his timing on what to do in the ring and when to maximize impact of the moment. Once he gets timing down in the ring and becomes more of an independant character who does his own mic work, I think he'll be fine.

As for Cody Rhodes, it's a little harder to pinpoint. I like his character on screen and he does a moderately good job of getting heel heat. His ring work is great and I cannot find fault with it. Again, it comes down to opportunity and timing. Cody has gotten some brief opportunity but never the full shot. They have yet to fully invest into building Cody Rhodes into the star he should be. WWE still has their Brock Lesnar issues with the fear of building a big star and then them leaving. Their stop and start pushes are to blame for no stars being created for the next generation and Cody Rhodes falls victim to this. I think Cody should be in the contention for the World Title or at least have been the Money In the Bank winner, as he is more interesting to watch than Ziggler has been thus far.

Still, I'd like to believe that within a few months or years that both will have improved enough to be main event stars. I guess time will tell....

 

[Attitude Era Junkie]

I'm not talking about anyone here but I just want to say that I think it's possible that we set our standards too high for future wrestlers. The Attitude Era spoiled us and now nothing and nobody is ever good enough. I have learned to accept that we may never see an era that great again and have learned to like these new guys. I don't settle for average though because I strongly believe Punk and Ziggler are much better than average....along with a few other guys. I do agree that Cody has a couple things missing but I still like him. At least as an IC champ.

 

[DirtyD79]

Aside from as I've mentioned in similar threads that Dolph Ziggler needs to start actually showing off. The two guys need to also start actually winning. They need to start looking like serious threats to the babyfaces. This is hardly unique to them, WWE heels in general are either little more than a turnstyle to the faces or they just trade wins with them every week. They never really seem to be ahead. It's just like in any other form of fiction There's only so many times you can watch the villains lose before they just don't seem like a threat to the heroes anymore and fans (yes even the little kids who still think it's real) get bored of it.