What's a tag team to you?

[CenaFan]

I've been debating in another forum about what a tag team to me is and some are saying that just because 2 wrestlers were put together and got the belts that means that they are a tag team.

To me that isn't so. The reason for that is some wrestlers are put together, for the sole purpose to develop a feud. So just because they got the belts to me does not mean that they are a actual tag team.

A lot of people say that Austin and Triple H were a tag team, just because they got the belt, but IMO they were just put together to help develop a feud that lasted a couple of months but I don't think that means that they were technically a Tag Team Material.


So if Cena and Orton were put together in a match and ended up winning the belts, Would they be considered a Tag Team?


A tag team to me is a tag team that is already established into one without having WWE put them together just for a feud for a short amount of time.

Did Triple H or Austin ever benefited from each other in being together?

Does anyone know what I mean?

 

[Ferbian]

There's a few things that really makes a tag team in my eyes.

First, and to me, most importantly, the team has to be able to function like an unit, be able to put on some good matches you actually care to sit back and watch, not just matches you think "when is this gonna end" and then shoot yourself cause the match continued for 5 more minutes.
And you're probably gonna ask "But Ferbian, what's a good match to you?" a good tag team that put on good matches would have to be The Rockers, exciting, good mixed matches of many different styles, or a team like Edge and Christian, or The Hardy Boyz, not because they put on great wrestling matches like The Hart Foundation, or The Rockers, but they put on matches you'd sit back and watch, especially when they were paired against each other, innovating the ladder matches and the TLC matches.
Another team I really like, who's pretty new to our memory: JeriShow, hell I'll even say ShowMiz, Why? because I enjoy all 3 wrestlers in the ring, and I don't mind sitting back and watching them wrestle, and they fill out important spots in what I'll put to be another point in a good tag team.

And that is: Entertainment, not only inside the ring, they should be able to put on promos, segments, run-ins that keeps you entertained etc. they should be the guy's you get behind cause you're there to scream from the top of your lungs "give them a title shot!" (or whatever you wanna yell to get them in the title hunt) again looking above, those tag teams previously mentioned did that, they entertained you every night and made you care for them actually being on the show, people praise The Miz in his current work, a lot, and that shows a good reason to call ShowMiz a good tag team.

My final thing to what makes a great tag team: Can they come off as legitimate champions? Again, the above mentioned teams did that, as opposed to teams like, say, Eugene and William Regal when they won the tag team championships, what legitimacy were there in that pairing? absolutely none, and that's what made them a boring tag team I personally would rather forget than remember.

So in the end, to put it short, what really is making a great tag team, is the same thing that's making a great singles wrestler, someone you wanna watch inside, outsite the ring and would believe to be a champion.
The only thing about tag teams that makes it any different, you need two legitimate points, cause again using eugene, there's no point in pairing Eugene with, say, John Cena, while John might be able to go out there and do all the things a tag team needs to do to be good, single handedly, Eugene needs to be able to do the exact same things, but as far as I remember from the few things I ever bothered watching him do, he didn't fill that role.

 

[FunKay the Inevitable]

A tag team is a team that actually has reason to be a tag team or reason and it should be a good reason. You mentioned the Two man Power trip. To me they were a tag team not because they held the belts but because they had reason and were a strong team. A pairing like HBK & John Cena isn't a team just because they won the tag teams. Why? Becasue they had no real reason. there was nothing legitimate to cling onto there. Pairings have to share a bond of sorts whether it's through respect or through friendship (I.E. DX) or through family (I.E. The Hart Foundation/Dynasty). The team has to engage the fans as well. I was watching SD last week and I found the Dudebusters to be highly entertainign and they got a reaction off of the crowd. A pairing like Matt Hardy and The Great Khali didn't get anything. A tag eam needs a bond of sorts otherwise it's nothing. I mean even through something like Money INC. both DiBiase and IRS had one thing in common, money. They loved that muchos diniero and it's what made them three time champions along with the amount of heat they drew. That's my thoughts.

 

[PEP3]

Technically speaking, any two men who are placed together -- regardless of the reasons -- are a "tag team." In the classic sense of the tag team, though, the collective is more important than the individual. The team means more as a unit than either does individually. This is something you will obviously never see in superstar pairings like Cena/HBK, Austin/HHH. These are examples of two individuals who happen to be partnered, and regardless of the success achieved, the unit will never outweigh the sum of its parts.

To gain a clearer understanding of what makes a true "Tag Team," I think it is easier to determine what qualifies when looking from an historical perspective. Over the years, many make-shift teams have won World Tag Team title gold. However, nobody necessarily thinks of those teams when looking back over the history of the tag team division. To determine whether a pairing ranks as a legitimate tag team, ask yourself: In five, ten, 20 years, will these two men's names be linked to one-another as a result of their teaming? If so, then they are -- in my mind's eye -- a legitimate tag team.

Nobody doubts teams like The Legion of Doom/Road Warriors, Demolition, The Rock 'n Roll Express, The Midnight Express, etc. fall into this category, because they largely involve competitors who saw limited success aside from tag team wrestling. However, other teams are less clear-cut.

While both Arn Anderson and Tully Blanchard achieved significant success both before and after teaming, their career was unquestionably at a high while together. Certainly Edge & Christian have each achieved tremendous solo success, but can anyone deny their tag team domination of WWE? Long before his storied solo career, Shawn Michaels was half of The Rockers with Marty Jannetty, a team which not only established him as one of the most exciting in-ring workers at the time but, when it broke up, launched HBK to unforeseen heights. Bret Hart was a two-time tag champ with Jim Neidhardt in the Hart Foundation before becoming The Excellence of Execution.

While Edge, Hart, Michaels and more have gone on to World titles galore, at no point in their lives will their tag team efforts -- or the names of their primary partners -- not be a significant historical footnote in their careers. During that time of their life, the tag team defined them, they didn't define it.

That's a how I decide what is a tag team and what isn't. And I think it makes sense.

 

[Rayne]

Tag team wrestling is dead.

It's a function of where the business is now, as opposed to where it was fifteen years or so ago. "Back then", as I'll refer to the prior era, the product was focused on competition, albeit fake competition. Not always about "who's the champion", although that was far more important then than now, but about who's better than who. Now, the product is personality driven. You can make a lot more money selling an image than you can by supporting some group.

Case in point: New York Yankee caps. They sell all over the world, in all kinds of shades besides the official navy blue/white. Why? There aren't that many Yankee fans, there's an image they're selling.

So how does this come back to tag team wrestling being dead? Tag teams are by their very nature a competitive unit. It's very difficult for two people to share a personality cult. It's not just a WWE issue; look at TNA. The top tier tag teams, like Beer Money, are made of individuals filling a team role. The Dudleyz are the last guard of tag team wrestling, and they work so well because they complement each other so very well as individuals. (In comedic terms, Bubba Ray fills the comic role, while D-Von fills the straight man role. It's a classic entertainment setup, but they do it SO well.)

This is why you see so many tag teams these days comprised of two individuals, as opposed to a team. What's being sold has changed.

 

[Judah's Lion]

good question. makes perfect sense and i know what you mean.

this may be the wrong word usage, but there needs to be a gimmick to a true tag team. regardless of success, there has to be a gimmick to be remembered.

think of the greats:
rockers - tag team specialists
edge and christian - reeking of awesomeness and con-chair-to shots
hardy boyz - extreme and ladder matches
dudley boys - tables
headshrinkers - monsters
steiner brothers - technical wrestlers / masters of suplexes

the list goes on and on and of course the few i mentioned above is not all inclusive or even a best of. just some quick examples. but i think there's gotta be a gimmick.

also, as stated by earlier posters, there has to be a motive. what is the motive of the pairing? just to prolong a feud or make it more intense, such as with HBK and Cena, making two huge rivals co-holders of the titles. same thing with Cena and Batista. in fact, i'm pretty sure it's safe to say that regardless of pairings or success, Cena will never be considered a tag team wrestler.

i think it's also significant to point out that most tag teams saw splits and the individuals go on to singles careers, again, to varying success. sometimes one was very successful and the other wasn't and sometimes neither were successful. but it's important to note that this doesn't happen the other way around very often. great singles wrestlers don't often form great "tag teams" but rather, great tag teams split and make great singles wrestlers.

of course there are exceptions, such as kane, mankind, rock, undertaker, big show, jericho, benoit, guerrero and countless more.

great thread. i could talk about this all day. already said to much, but i think boil it down to two points to summarize: "gimmick" and "motive".

 

[dwith73]

I when you are paired on your own to create a long lasting team. Not just 2 wrestlers thrown together because they have nothing else for those wrestlers to do. A tag team to me is also one that have a legitimate name for themselves like The Rockers, Hardy's, Team 3d, MCMG, Generation Me, Super Powers etc... 2 people that join forces on their own, for a sole purpose to win the tag team gold, and battle other tag teams, not constantly be in singles matches.

 

[Greenlight13]

I think there is a distinct difference between an alliance and a tag team. JeriShow, ShoMiz, DX, the 2-Man Power Trip and all the other teams made up of two main-event talents were alliances. They were coming together for a common goal.

A tag team is a duo that for a long as they are together have no singles aspirations. They normally debut together and stick together until a break-up. They use tandem attacks and exceptional team strategy. Usually an alliance just overpowers another team due to the sum of their individual parts.

To me the entire point of a tag team is that neither of the individual wrestlers is that strong on their own, but as a combination they can defeat better wrestlers than themselves. It's difficult to give an example because WWE don't have many real teams, but I'll try.

In theory the Hart Dynasty could defeat John Cena and Batista. Neither of them would have a prayer against either of them in a singles match, but because they are a full-time tag team and are at their best when working together, they are capable of beating this pair of multi-time world champions. Now the way WWE is booked, the Hart Dynasty would lose that match every single time, and perhaps it is excusable if it's two stars of that extreme magnitude, but generally speaking, my point remains. A random pairing should not defeat a tag team, even if both members could beat them individually.

If a tag team can't defeat a random pairing like Matt Hardy and the Great Khali, or Morrison and R-Truth, then it defeats the point in them being a team and it's basically saying "we can't think of something to do with both of them, so they'll do the same thing, dress the same way etc." It's meant to be a specialty that a regular tag team have mastered, not something that anyone can pull off.

WWE seems to be favouring the Alliance model now, with JeriShow, DX and ShoMiz as the last 3 tag team champions, spanning nearly a year now. Hell, as good as they were together, Miz and Morrison were more of an alliance.

 

[macksstream]

To me, a tag team is two wrestlers joining forces for a legitiment reason. Now that being said, if they are kind of thrown together but work as a successful team etc then I would count that as a team as well. Because they've become a team. Another thing is they have to start with or develop a name. All the great tag teams have names; The Hart Foundation, The Rockers, The Hardys, E&C, Team 3D, The Legion of Doom, the list goes on.
So in summary, a tag team needs:
1. A legitiment foundation. This can be from the start or develop.
2. A name. Again, from the start or developed.

Also, as an optional extra, a manager. There's great teams that didnt have managers but theres also ones that did. This could also be like a friend, bodyguard, brother, girlfriend, whatever. But it does help sometimes.

 

[mister_b1LL]

For me a tag team must be introduced to the wrestling world as a tag team. I don't like singles stars getting together and forming a tag team because you start to like one person over the other. I like to be the fan of a tag team collectively.

Second, they have to function as a tag team. They regularly do more than just puching their opponent in the gut as they enter the ring. They have to do high impact moves that require a good amount of collective thinking and teamwork. Dudleys have the 3D, Hart Foundation/Dynasty have the Hart Attack, LOD had the Doomsday Device, And even Beer Money has DWI.

Optionally, both guys on the team should have similar styles and size. My favorite is either seeing a pair of great technicians like WGTT (first team I could think of) or a pair of high flyers like the Hardys, or more recently, MCMG and GenMe. A team that has one smaller guy and one bigger dude is okay on occasion, but it gets old.

Lastly, and most importantly, they need A NAME!!!, and it has to be an unforgettable name at that. Cryme Tyme, whether you liked them or not, was a great name. Trent Baretta and Caylen Croft? That's just a mouthful. But if the commentators and Tony Chimel regularly called them The Dudebusters, then maybe we're getting somewhere.

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Debuting as a tag team, acting like a tag team, and only caring about being a tag team is what makes a great tag team.

Let me break those down for everyone:

Debuting as a tag team

This one is probably the least important of the 3, because let's face it, did the New Age Outlaws debut as a tag team? Of course they didn't. Did Edge and Christian debut as a tag team? Hell no, Edge appeared first and Christian second. Would you consider Kane and X-Pac to be a great tag team? many would say yes despite both being around for years before being paried together.

However, in this day and age, no one is going to accept John Cena and Batista as legitimate tag wrestlers because they are the ME talent who only wrestle the other ME talent, and whoever's champion. Then they go on to defend the belts against other ME'ers and the former champs before losing.

HHH/Austin is a prime example, where they won the tag belts from Taker and Kane (ME'ers), maybe had one or two other defences here and there, and lost them to Jericho and Benoit (again, ME'ers. And yeah you might dispute that, but seeing as they were both in the ME that same month as winning the tag belts, i'd still call them ME'ers)

A team that actually debuts as a team is much more likely to be regarded as a legitimate tag team then two random guys thrown together for the sake of it.

Acting like a Tag Team

By this i mean, when they have a singles match, both guys should still be coming out to support his partner, unless they've wrestled already or will be wrestling later. Rarely would you see Mosh have a match without Thrasher at ringside, Cade and Murdoch always came out together. Rarely would the Hardys, Dudleys, APA, Too Cool or E+C come out as individuals, and that's the way a tag team should operate.

If one of them is doing a promo, then both should be present for it, not just one. Did you ever see JTG stealing stuff on his own? No, of course not, because they were an actual tag team.

In the ring, they should also be working as a unit and should also have a signature Tag Team move.

E+C's was the Con-Chair-To
Hardy's was a Twist of Fate/Swanton combo
Dudley's is the 3D
Acolytes used to do a Double Powerbomb, but the APA did a Double Spinebuster
Too Cool did the Hip Hop Drop
Headbangers used to do... what was it called? It was Thrasher doing a powerbomb as Mosh did a legdrop of the top wasn't it?
T&A had the running splash/big boot combo
La Resistance had the Bon Voyage
Murdoch and Cade did the Sweet'n'Sour (Chop block/lariat combo)
Taker and Kane's is the Double Chokeslam

Hell even Miz and Morrison did the slingshot back breaker followed by the elbow drop.

One of the big things about tag teams is that they can come up with some truly innovative moves through double teams and it just helps to legitimise them as a functional unit. Otherwise they're two guys who like tagging together.

Only care about being a tag team

The tag titles, and only the tag titles, should be the primary focus of every tag team. They shouldn't be aiming to win the WWE title (although obviously they shouldn't pass up a shot either) or any other belt. They should want to be the best tag team in the world and that is all. Once the team splits up, then you can start using them in the singles title storylines.

And those are the three things that i feel, make a legitimate tag team.

 

[The Roid Rage]

I think that tag team wrestling should be largely the same as it was in the early 90's. I think that is the formula for a tag team, and those teams were the definitions of what a tag team is. They have been mentioned but going back to The Rockers, Hart Foundation, British Bulldogs, Demolition, LOD, The Bushwhackers(who never seem to get any mention here), The Quebecers, The Headshrinkers, The Wild Samoans, The Nasty Boyz, The Natural Disasters, even The Smoking Guns, Men on a Mission, The Bodydonnas, The Heavenly Bodies, ect... These were real tag teams.

Notice the trend, they are all teams with names, and gimmicks. All of these teams dressed alike to compliment each other, each member of these teams generally offered different styles in the ring to compliment each others own, and as many of you has mentioned as criteria they were all teams that only really focused on being tag team champions. Keep in mind also, they were teams that didn't need props and stunts to entertain people, they just wrestled their asses off and put on a good show utilizing the tools they brought to the table as wrestlers and athletes. None of these teams really did big gimmick matches or anything like that, but this is the era where the greatest tag teams have come from.


Looking at those teams there is something else to be noted. Most of them all had some kind of tag team finisher. I think if you are going to be a real tag team that is a real prerequisite. That's the finish, the final impact or impression you leave on the audience, it needs to be spectacular and believable. In fact there needs to be a lot more than just a finisher. The greats were always employing tag team moves through the matches as well. You need to display through the match how well you and this partner work together.

There is one other thing to me that I think really makes a tag team just that. If you look at the greatest tag teams of all time, the top teams all had managers at some point and I think having one is a big part of having a successful tag team. It's an additive to the equation that changes the circumstances, and creates more interest as well as more possibilities in the match. Think also about how the great managers of our time helped launch these teams, and what a big difference they made to their teams. Just look at the list of names, Jimmy Hart, Mr. Fuji, Jim Cornette, Bobby Heenan, Sheri Martel, Mrs. Elizabeth(Mega Powers), etc... I don't even need to speak on how big a deal those people have been and forgive me if I missed anyone I was just going off the top of my head. Point is, the manager role changes everything, and most of the time legitimizes a tag team. If someone wants to manage this tag team than they must have potential right?(That's the subconscious mentality.)

I don't like the way it's been done for quite a while now, and Cryme Tyme doesn't make up for it. Legacy or Priceless or whatever Ted Jr and Rhodes call themselves aren't a real tag team, that is two guys paired up, another alliance. Jerishow and Shomiz are not real tag teams either.

The only current tag team that fits the bill is The Hart Dynasty, and in some senses rightfully so. If anyone were going to bring real tag team wrestling to WWE it should be the Hart family. The last one before them that really qualified was Miz & Morrison, the only problem was that they didn't have much of a name, nor were they ever managed by anyone, but they were the closest thing to a real tag team during their run. You could make an argument for Primo and Carlito "The Colons" but They were only paired together because they were brothers, and the WWE needed another tag team.

One of the biggest parts as someone else mentioned, is that they need to be introduced to you at the same time as a tag team. That is how you implant the idea of two guys being a team into the minds of people. Not by saying "You know who this is, and you know who this is, now they are a team called "insert name" and their going to be the tag team champions. It just doesn't work that way, even though that's exactly what the WWE has been doing for some time. Take a look at the lack of success of the tag team division though and my statement stands correct.

 

[Dagger Dias]

If you want to get technical.... A tag team is defined as two wrestlers working together as a team, with a group larger than 3 referred to as a stable. That's it. So all the random pairs we mock on this forum for not being "true" tag teams are, for all intents and purposes, tag teams. Now, are they tag teams in the traditional sense? Absolutely not. "True" tag teams, as some refer to them, are made up of two wrestlers with similar gimmicks who team together in matches and in most cases one is stronger while the other is faster. They both cancel out their partner's weakness(es) with their strength(s).

If Cena and Orton get put together and win the belts, are they a tag team? By the generally accepted definition, yes they are. They have very different characters though and are not part of the "tag team division" therefore they are not a "true" tag team despite being a tag team if they won a tag title match together. "True" tag teams are nearly dead these days though. No team at the moment truly sticks out as a tag team in the traditional sense, even the Hart Dynasty are technically a stable due to Natalya being a part of the team as well.

The answer to the question "What's a tag team to you?" is going to be different for every fan because tag team wrestling has changed so much in recent years. I basically view it as any two guys working together in a match ARE a tag team.... BUT.... they are not a "true" tag team unless they share a similar gimmick and team together frequently.