What would you do?

Leeds Guy

Retired Former WZCW EurAsian Champ
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/2816412/Dad-who-fought-burglar-is-freed.html

A BUSINESSMAN jailed for attacking an intruder after the lives of his family were threatened by knife-wielding thugs in their own home was freed by the Court of Appeal today.

Lord Chief Justice Lord Judge, and two other judges in London, showed "mercy" to Munir Hussain, 53, of High Wycombe, Buckinghamshire.

They overturned his 30-month jail sentence, replacing it with a two-year term, but ordered that it should be suspended.

Hussain's brother Tokeer, 35, had his 39-month jail term reduced to two years.

The brothers, described as family men at the heart of the local community, were jailed after being found guilty of causing grievous bodily harm with intent.

Neither man was present in court for the ruling.

The decision to free Munir Hussain, who was jailed in December, was made by Lord Judge, Mrs Justice Swift and Mr Justice Sweeney.

But they rejected his bid to appeal against the conviction.

Lord Judge said the case of Hussain was one of "true exceptionality".

A sentence of two years was in itself "merciful", but he added: "We have come to the conclusion that we have ample justification for ordering that it should be suspended."

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Hussain, his wife and children returned from their mosque during Ramadan to find intruders wearing balaclavas in their home.

They feared for their lives as their hands were tied behind their backs and they were forced to crawl from room to room.

Hussain escaped and with his brother Tokeer chased the offenders down the street in High Wycombe, bringing one of them Walid Salem to the ground.

Salem was left with a permanent brain injury after he was hit so hard with a cricket bat it broke into three pieces.

He was attacked on the ground when "completely defenceless" and his injuries included a fractured skull, a fractured jaw and ribs.

Hussain's retaliation was described at his original trial at Reading Crown Court as a self-defence which went too far.

Salem was the only intruder caught after the incident on September 3, 2008, but his injuries meant he was unfit to plea after being charged with false imprisonment.

He was given a two-year supervision order.

Exceptional

Barristers representing the brothers, who live near each other in High Wycombe, had urged the court to show mercy in an "exceptional" case.

Lord Judge said: "This trial had nothing to do with the right of the householder to defend themselves or their families or their homes.

"The burglary was over and the burglars had gone. No one was in any further danger from them."

He added: "This is not, and should not be seen as, a case about the level of violence which a householder may lawfully and justifiably use on a burglar.

"It is also clear that the violence to which Salem was subjected was not designed to ensure that he was detained and somehow kept pending the arrival of the police to be handed to them.

"So far as both these appellants was concerned the purpose of their violence was revenge - to teach at least one of the burglars a lesson... such violence is not lawful and no one at the trial suggested that it was."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/crime/article6962884.ece - Original report

I think that what that man did was fantastic and I'd do the same. I also think its an outrage he had to do time for defending his family. So what would you do?
 
The whole point the judge was making is basically, the fight was over, and he decided to continue it, which stopped it constituting as self defense. I do see what the judge means by that, but I would have done the same thing Hussain did, if not worse.
 
Meeeeeeh, I dunno. I can see both sides here. Putting myself in the shoes of the guy with the cricket bat, yeah, I understand. But at the same time, the law doesn't cease to be the law because we're pissed off at someone. The judge did the right thing here. Clearly this guy isn't a threat to society and doesn't need a lot of jail time, but you can't just pat him on the back and say "well done" from a legal standpoint either. So they get a relatively light sentence considering the brutality of what they did (suspended, for one of them).

It's not a good situation and there's no easy answer but I agree with the judge here.
 
I tend to agree with the Judges here. Once they were outside the house and one of the the assailants was lying defenceless on the ground- he was then struck by a cricket bat with enough force to break it in three? I know that cricket bats tend to be fairly sturdy- such a blow could relatively easy have resulted in death. And that should never be defended. The man here went beyond what a reasonable person would do but robbery and intimidation of family is always pretty stressfull. So I would say that a suspended sentence is pretty fair.
 
Yeah the Judges are right, but I was really asking what you would do. Its ok to agree with the Judge, but if you were faced in the same situation I'd want to seriously hurt the man that threatened my family.
 
This wouldn't happen in Texas. There's a law there that when you think someone is intruding in your house you can defend yourself. Then again you guys in the UK have a different Law system then we do here.
 
I would've done worst. This comming from a person who's helped raise a kid. If a person comes to my house, threataning to kill my family, the most important thing in my life, I'd make sure he'd have nightmare's of me for the rest of his life. He broke a cricket bat on him, I'd break a led pipe on him. Fuck the law, my family comes first.
 
This wouldn't happen in Texas. There's a law there that when you think someone is intruding in your house you can defend yourself. Then again you guys in the UK have a different Law system then we do here.

The UK law does indeed allow home owners to defend their home to a reasonable extent- not to the same degree as Texas I am sure- but they still can to some extent. The main point in this case though is that it did not take place within the property of the home owner- rather it took place within the street.
 
Oh, what I would do in the same situation? I don't know, honestly. I like to think I'd have attempted to get the intruders into a subdued position and held them there while the police arrived. Would I, if my little girl was threatened by some jackoff in a ski mask? I really don't know. It's one of those situations where you can't say with any certainty until, god forbid, you're put in that position.
 
Usually the rule for self defence in any situation is one defensive attack is all that is (technically) allowed. While I see no harm in them defending his home, he did take it too far as this was beyond defending a home and turned into a beatdown. I can see both sides of the situation and the judges made the right call because it did go beyond a simple defending of the home.
 
Well this one isn't as bad as that Tony Martin cunt from a few years ago (guy chases a 16 year old kid off of his property, then proceeds to shoot him in the back of the head with an illegal shotgun - gets hailed as a national hero) but its still pretty unfortunate.

We have laws in this country, and one of them is that you can't repeatedly brain a defenceless person with a cricket bat. I don't care if they've earned themselves a prison sentence, this was attempted murder, and regardless of valid provocation, attempting to murder someone is against the law.

I don't care too much about the moral implications (I'm against the cricket bad wielder, but I can appreciate the room for debate) my issue is with the legal ones. UK law is really quite specific in this area, and this man transparently broke it. You can't let random people get away with breaking the law every time the tabloid press decides to fuel an outcry.

As for what I'd do; my answer here is the same as my answer to every one of these hypothetical questions. How the fuck should I know? With this kind of situation, unless you've actually been there, it is impossible to predict how you're going to react. It's very possible that I'd have spent the entire incident crying in a corner.
 
The trauma the victims suffer is something most courts overlook. Its obviously wrong to shoot a kid, let alone with an illegal arm. But when a person is steps away from killing your family, your mind will react in an unpredictable way. Not everyone can supress those emotions, let alone control them afterwards.
 
The legal system allows for trauma induced automatism. It was found not to be the case in this scenario. Being angry is not a valid reason to try and kill someone.
 
I'm not saying I would kill the guy, but I'd deffo attempt to get the bastard back for what he put my family through
 
Eh, I don't know enough to say exactly what I would have done in the situation. If it was possible, I would have avoided his head however. Giving someone permanent brain damage is a serious matter; I wouldn't have thought this such a big thing had he just broken the guy's ribs.
 

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