what was worse?

[fredstephenson]

ok in threads abowt the attitude vs the pg era i see a lot of replies saying things along the line of that there glad its over because all of the edgy things have now been replaced with family entertainment and now they can watch it with there children.

now i loved the attitude era but i loved it for the storylines/charecters and the unpredictability i was fairly young at the time so i dont remember every thing that happened very clearly.Yes it had very bad language and nudity but correct me if im wrong but i think most of the risque things that happened were done in a tongue in cheek style such as mae young giving birth to a hand and kaientai chopping val venuses dick off. im sure there are much worse things im forgetting though so please feel free to remind me.

the worst thing about the attitude era was the swearing and nudity but what i think was much more controversial then this is the post attitude era it had a more serious tone if you ask me and had such distastfull things happening as
the imfamous katy vick storyline
edge and lita live sex celebration
hot lesbian action or hla
the thing with dawn marie and tory wilsons father were he died
billy and chucks gay wedding
kane and litas baby getting miscarryed by snitsky
the kiss my ass club
vinnie macs various affairs especialy the one were his wife was wheelchair bound
vince and shane beating the hell out of eugene
eddie and rey the whole im your pappy thing
and i seem to remember a taseful little angle were it was implied a referee commited suicide with a gun due to hell in the cell

most people have there own opinion when the attitude era ended but im pretty sure all these things happened after 2000 anyway there are once again several im forgetting and for the record im completly fine with all these things for me it just made the show more intresting even if they wernt essential. but what im asking is does the attitude era deserve the bad rep it has for controversy yes it had swearing and nudity but it was no worse then the jerry springer show in my opinion. i think the post attitude era had far more morally questionable moments so which one do you think truly deserves the bad reputation???

 

[Hazardous]

I'm confused.. You were asking what was worse, A.E, or PG.. yet none of the stuff you listed came within the PG rating Era.. Care to shed a little light on this? I think the time you are referring to was known as the "Ruthless Aggression" stage. In which case, you might have to go back and edit the OP a little.

 

[CyDeez]

Let me start this by saying...

Dude, you truly need to work on how you post! I'm not trying to make you look bad or anything, I am just informing you. The shit was so misspelled and had such weird punctuation, that it was very hard to read... Just a simple suggestion on this matter and I will let it go... PROOF READ! You know when you guess on how to spell a word and it has that red squiggly line under it??? That means it is spelled wrong. The post itself doesn't seem to make a lot of sense.

Anyway...

I don't think the Attitude Era gets a very bad rep. I don't know what posts you have seen where more people are saying the PG Rating is better. I have absolutely seen more people say they miss it. Even on youtube... You see a million comments that say, "This is when wrestling was good", "Classic", "Best -Blank- Ever" etc...

I completely agree that the "post" Attitude Era had much more offensive programming. As you noted, The Katie Vick angle, etc...

I actually think most of the examples of negative press critics have thrown at WWE, and at Linda McMahon at the moment, have been scenes and story lines, following the Attitude Era. It seems WWF/E went WAY out there with a lot of things they tried. I think after The Monday Night War was over, they still tried to push the envelope to keep ratings and try to add shock value.

After a few years, with no competition, they realized they didn't have to push the envelope because they had nothing, or no one, to try to top. They decided to go a different direction to appeal to a wider/main stream audience even beyond The Attitude Era's popularity.

I think Linda deciding to run for office affected the way the WWE wanted to market themselves. Less of the "foul" language and "nudity", as well as violence, would make it more likely and attainable, to be called "Family Entertainment".

EDIT: I am getting so sick of commenting on these PG/Attitude Era comparison and/or complaint threads. I am DONE!

 

[fredstephenson]

I'm confused.. You were asking what was worse, A.E, or PG.. yet none of the stuff you listed came within the PG rating Era.. Care to shed a little light on this? I think the time you are referring to was known as the "Ruthless Aggression" stage. In which case, you might have to go back and edit the OP a little.

well whatever you want to call it it doesnt make to much difference im talking about the period from abowt 2000 to when wwe went pg but sure ruthless agression era then. im not talking about the pg era at all im comparing the full blown attitude era to the transitional period before the pg era started and if it deserves more of a bad reputation the the actual official attitude era that went on before wcw bit the dust .

 

[Hazardous]

See the thing is though, the AE is not just looked down on for the stories.. Yes some of them were straight up shit. But also the characters that came with it. The constant changes that went on. The McMahon-Helmsley Era (often criticized heavily). It wasn't just about the over the top ****tyness. The AE also had a shit ton more blood, and Hardcore matches as well. Some of that was way too graphic for younger viewers. Do you remember the Rock/Mankind "I Quit" match?? Yes there were some questionable stories that came after the Invasion Angle, which marked the end of "Attitude" But you have to look at more then the stories.

 

[fredstephenson]

See the thing is though, the AE is not just looked down on for the stories.. Yes some of them were straight up shit. But also the characters that came with it. The constant changes that went on. The McMahon-Helmsley Era (often criticized heavily). It wasn't just about the over the top ****tyness. The AE also had a shit ton more blood, and Hardcore matches as well. Some of that was way too graphic for younger viewers. Do you remember the Rock/Mankind "I Quit" match?? Yes there were some questionable stories that came after the Invasion Angle, which marked the end of "Attitude" But you have to look at more then the stories.

yep true and yeah i remember that one but after the invasion angle there were plenty of bloody matches aswell they just wernt as often as before hhh vs shawn michaels was a good one also hhh vs foley hell in the cell undertakers also had tonnes of brutal matchs. i think it was the buried alive match vs vince vinces head was pouring with blood for most of the match thats the most i think ive seen anyone bleed in wwe.

 

[Hazardous]

I've seen Vince that busted open a few times. And yes it was bloody. But 11 unprotected chair shots to the head? Throwing Foley off the Cell threw a table, then threw the cage, THEN onto tacks? Post-Attitude don't got nothing on that. Those things stay in your head forever. HHH and Foley in a Last man Standing match also. HHH had a deep cut on his Leg. Now I'm just going off listing random matches.. But again.. It wasn't just about the blood and sex, and bad stories that people hate on the AE. Think of some of the characters that came along, that wouldn't be acceptable today.

 

[MWRedskins]

Here's my take on these storylines that you didnt like.


the imfamous katy vick storyline
This was the WORST and here's why. The ending to it, it had Triple H pretty much pick on Kane, it was just dumb and not needed, Katie Vick is still a storyline WWE picks on themselves over. CM Punk being the latest, i loved it when he said, youtube it and it will drive you to drink.
edge and lita live sex celebration
Well, some of the adult fans loved it, i was not one of them
hot lesbian action or hla
again, some male fans enjoyed this.
the thing with dawn marie and tory wilsons father were he died
this was just dumb, but not as dumb as the Katie Vick deal, at least it had a decent feud.
billy and chucks gay wedding
this storyline ruined the heel status of Billy and Chuck, but it was at least funny.
kane and litas baby getting miscarryed by snitsky
the whole Kane and Lita storyline should never have happened, BUT it did give Snitsky a little bit of a push and i enjoyed hearing him say, "it's not my fault"
the kiss my ass club
great heel Vince, got to love it.
vinnie macs various affairs especialy the one were his wife was wheelchair bound
not good for children, BUT hey, i enjoyed heel Vince McMahon.
vince and shane beating the hell out of eugene
well, i liked it better when Eric was setting him up to fail.
eddie and rey the whole im your pappy thing
this showed how great Eddie was as a heel, i enjoyed this storyline, although it was strange, it was good for TV although a child may not like it.

 

[fredstephenson]

Here's my take on these storylines that you didnt like.


the imfamous katy vick storyline
This was the WORST and here's why. The ending to it, it had Triple H pretty much pick on Kane, it was just dumb and not needed, Katie Vick is still a storyline WWE picks on themselves over. CM Punk being the latest, i loved it when he said, youtube it and it will drive you to drink.
edge and lita live sex celebration
Well, some of the adult fans loved it, i was not one of them
hot lesbian action or hla
again, some male fans enjoyed this.
the thing with dawn marie and tory wilsons father were he died
this was just dumb, but not as dumb as the Katie Vick deal, at least it had a decent feud.
billy and chucks gay wedding
this storyline ruined the heel status of Billy and Chuck, but it was at least funny.
kane and litas baby getting miscarryed by snitsky
the whole Kane and Lita storyline should never have happened, BUT it did give Snitsky a little bit of a push and i enjoyed hearing him say, "it's not my fault"
the kiss my ass club
great heel Vince, got to love it.
vinnie macs various affairs especialy the one were his wife was wheelchair bound
not good for children, BUT hey, i enjoyed heel Vince McMahon.
vince and shane beating the hell out of eugene
well, i liked it better when Eric was setting him up to fail.
eddie and rey the whole im your pappy thing
this showed how great Eddie was as a heel, i enjoyed this storyline, although it was strange, it was good for TV although a child may not like it.

i didnt say i didnt like them i personally enjoy stuff like this and think its funny but these are the storylines that people mostly attack the wwe with my point is they wernt in the attitude era and thats the era that gets all the shit for some reason

 

[ZackPack82]

Although I loved this storyline and it will forever live as my favorite in the Attitude Era, I think one thing that got left out was the Ministry of Darkness. It was bordering on Satanism and I know a lot of parents complained about it. I mean, come on. The Undertaker strung up Edge (or was it Christian? I honestly don't remember) and whipped him for revealing the location of Stephanie McMahon. They hanged the Big Boss Man from the cell! It was creepy, it was controversial, it was awesome.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

All those incidents, storylines and angles listed in the first post all took place during the Attitude Era. Some of them didn't happen during the Attitude Era when it was its height, but it was still the AE. The WWE didn't go PG until close to this time 2 years ago and PG content is certainly nothing new in wrestling. Most wrestling content on television that's been on television since the beginning of television would be considered PG rated.

As for which was worse, well there is no simple cut and dry way to answer that but. There was a lot of controversial things on WWF/WWE television during the Attitude Era. When I was in my teens, controversial almost always automatically equaled quality in my book. Looking back on things, however, I have to say that a lot of the controversial things I saw were little more than cheap, sleazy stunts designed to shock people and pop a rating. To some people, however, controversial does equal quality. The swearing and middle finger stuff that you'd see out of Stone Cold Steve Austin was fun. Austin didn't do or say anything that I haven't heard out of an average 14 year old. Compared to a lot of 14 year olds today, Austin's rhetoric was actually quite tame.

In terms of wrestler safety, the Attitude Era is perfect example of negative effects on wrestling in the long run. For all intents and purposes, Vince didn't really give a shit what his wrestlers did as long as it didn't interfere with his company making money from their performance. Chairshots to the head were commonly seen, there was no Wellness Policy, a lot of wrestlers were wearing out their bodies as there was much more emphasis on hardcore wrestling. And, things stayed that way really up until Chris Benoit killed his wife and son before committing suicide. It's just a shame that's what it took to make Vince open his eyes.

When it comes to overall wrestling match quality, I think the PG Era is much better than the Attitude Era. As I indicated earlier, the Attitude Era was more about causing controversy with storylines and pulling a lot of stunts rather than relying on actual wrestling matches. Also, as I said, there were a lot of hardcore style matches going on during those times and it doesn't really take any skill to be a hardcore wrestler. Not to say that the AE didn't have damn good, high quality matches sometimes, but wrestling in and of itself did sort of take a backseat I think in general.

Overall, I think the Attitude Era, in my view, may have been worse. Looking back, a lot of the stuff really wasn't nearly as good as I thought it was at the time. Some of it was downright great, but I confused controversy with quality a lot during those times I believe. That's not to say that the PG Era doesn't have some crap. The stuff with the song and dance off contest last Monday is a perfect example and stuff with Hornswoggle last year is another. But, the WWE has done a good job in general of avoiding that stuff this year and have put on a more serious overall wrestling product in 2010. Some of that lousy stuff will slink its way in sometimes because Vince loves corny comedy.

But, I don't need bloodshed in matches in order to enjoy them. Blood can add a little extra something I admit, but it's not necessary in general. I don't need guys swearing every other word in promos as I don't generally find it all that edgy to begin with. Anybody can swear like a sailor but that doesn't automatically equate to cutting a good promo. I don't need to see women on television acting like strippers, pole dancers, porn stars, etc. I can get that on the internet anytime I want it if that's what I'm in the mood for and in limitless variety. The Attitude Era has had its day and while I did enjoy it and have a lot of great memories from that time, it wasn't really as good as I thought it was at the time.

 

[The Raven's Epitaph]

Everytime there's an Attitude Era thread I always have to say the same because it's my honest opinion.

The Attitude Era should be let to lie, because if you actually look back on it properly, you'll realise that not alot of it was good and that the stuff we have in the PG Era today isn't bad at all, it's actually really good. The Attitude Era, even though it was TV-14, was booked in the PG standard.

I'm with Mongoose McQueen on this thread though, you asked what's better out of the Attitude Era and the PG Era, yet you didn't legitemately mention anything from the PG Era. I think you mean the "Ruthless Agression" or "RAW" era.

Some parts of the Attitude Era were good such as how some of the characters were portrayed and the entertainment alot of people got out of it, but take a look back. Would you ever see somebody like Chester McCheeserton or Beaver Cleavage in the WWE now? No, you wouldn't because times change, and that's how it works.

Nobody likes seeing people such as Red Rooster or Chester McCheeserton anymore because it isn't entertaining. It's unrealistic and immature. People want real wrestling with real people who present real feelings, not some dude sitting there roosting for comic effect. (Red Rooster).

Times have changed incredibly. Nobody really wants to see people bleeding profusely all over the ring and theirselves for the entire match, it isn't publically acceptable in this day and age, times have changed and they have changed for the better, in my opinion.

 

[fredstephenson]

Everytime there's an Attitude Era thread I always have to say the same because it's my honest opinion.

The Attitude Era should be let to lie, because if you actually look back on it properly, you'll realise that not alot of it was good and that the stuff we have in the PG Era today isn't bad at all, it's actually really good. The Attitude Era, even though it was TV-14, was booked in the PG standard.

I'm with Mongoose McQueen on this thread though, you asked what's better out of the Attitude Era and the PG Era, yet you didn't legitemately mention anything from the PG Era. I think you mean the "Ruthless Agression" or "RAW" era.

Some parts of the Attitude Era were good such as how some of the characters were portrayed and the entertainment alot of people got out of it, but take a look back. Would you ever see somebody like Chester McCheeserton or Beaver Cleavage in the WWE now? No, you wouldn't because times change, and that's how it works.

Nobody likes seeing people such as Red Rooster or Chester McCheeserton anymore because it isn't entertaining. It's unrealistic and immature. People want real wrestling with real people who present real feelings, not some dude sitting there roosting for comic effect. (Red Rooster).

Times have changed incredibly. Nobody really wants to see people bleeding profusely all over the ring and theirselves for the entire match, it isn't publically acceptable in this day and age, times have changed and they have changed for the better, in my opinion.

its funny i barely even mentioned the pg era at all i wasnt comparing the pg era to the attitude era im comparing the actual attitude era which was used to compete with wcw to the time it died to the period after that until the pg era started. ruthless agression/raw era call it what you will but what im saying is that during the time from around 2000 to whenever wwe went pg i think it had far more vulgar and questionable things happening then the official attitude era.

and this isnt a bring it back thread either so theres no need to try and convince me that i dont like seeing blood in wrestling anymore because its a different year.