What was the plan for the Ultimate Maniacs?

[LBGetBack]

They spent a lot of time with this storyline in Summer of 1992, with Savage and Warrior feuding for the title, but eventually developing mutual trust and understanding and deciding to team up. Flair took the title from an injured Savage after he and Mr Perfect took out his knee at Summerslam. Warrior saved him from a beat down and even gave him a knee pad.

Warrior was named the number 1 contender for Flair's title, the two teamed up and wrestled Money Inc. at Saturday Night's Main Event, and were set to face Flair and Razor Ramon at Survivor Series.

Then shit hit the fan, the steroid scandal got big, and Warrior was gone from the company.

What ended up happening: Flair lost the title to Bret Hart out of nowhere at an un televised event with zero build in a complete change of direction. Mr Perfect turned face, returned to the ring, and teamed up with Savage to take Warrior's place. Flair and Perfect then feuded and Flair left the company in January. Savage faded into the background and barely wrestled in WWF after that Survivor Series tag match.

Questions:

When was the Warrior- Flair title match going to take place and who was going over?

Was Perfect going to return to the ring no matter what? If Warrior stayed in the company, what were the plans for Perfect as no sudden face turn would've been needed? Was he going to get sick of Heenan and Flair no matter what and they just moved that storyline up?

Was Savage and Warrior going to be a temporary team up that ended after Survivor Series anyway? Was Savage going to fade away and basically stop wrestling? Was that the plan all along? It seemed real sudden for him to go from champion and number 1/2 face to rarely wrestling in a matter of months.

What were the plans for Bret Hart? He lost the IC title to Bulldog at Summerslam, and then with no build he suddenly won the WWF title and became the main guy. What were they going to do with him if Warrior-Flair happened as planned?

 

[Weems2k]

I thought I read, and was mentioned on that Warrior DVD that he was no showing a bunch of shows around that time. So Vince fired him once again, along with dealing with the roid scandal. If Flair was planning on going back to WCW, then of course Vince would want to get the belt off him. This seemed to be the start of the New Generation era too with the likes of Bret, and HBK getting pushes.

If things have gone as planned when Warrior returned at Mania, I'm sure they would have been a top tag team for awhile with the belts.

 

[HeenanGorilla]

I am not sure what the original or long-term plans were; but, I do remember having a strong feeling that they were going to get a run with the tag belts. I'm sure not a long run, but I remember this only because I thought it was cool that two wrestlers could have joined the Triple Crown club at the same time. At that time, it was only Pedro Morales and just recently Bret Hart who had held the WWF, IC and Tag titles. Soon after, the game of hot potato with titles would start. But at that time, it was a rare accomplishment and it felt like a very likely scenario.

 

[Makaveli31]

When was the Warrior- Flair title match going to take place and who was going over?

Warrior and Flair had a series of house show matches in late summer of 1992 but the matches were so bad it would be almost impossible to put them on a televised show (much less a PPV) and have them have a decent match. We all know Warrior was limited in the ring but Vince had lost confidence in Flair to have a good match. Flair admits that this period was when he was at his worst. So as far as when and where that was up in the air. If fact I believe the match was changed to a tag team match because Warrior and Flair could not work as a singles match. But the plan was the have Warrior go over and (if you believe Bret Hart) drop the title to Bret at Rumble '93.

Was Perfect going to return to the ring no matter what? If Warrior stayed in the company, what were the plans for Perfect as no sudden face turn would've been needed? Was he going to get sick of Heenan and Flair no matter what and they just moved that storyline up?

This I don't know. Perfect was collecting on a insurance policy due to a back injury he had suffered so it had a be a pretty penny for Vince to pay Perfect to come out of semi-retirement.

Was Savage and Warrior going to be a temporary team up that ended after Survivor Series anyway? Was Savage going to fade away and basically stop wrestling? Was that the plan all along? It seemed real sudden for him to go from champion and number 1/2 face to rarely wrestling in a matter of months.

Without knowing the absolute facts I would ASSUME it would have been a short-lived tag team both Savage and Warrior were high-priced main event singles stars with huge ego's it would be hard for me to imagine they would agree to a long-term partnership. Vince was already moving in that direction. Hogan was gone. A lot of the '80's wrestlers were gone or in diminished roles. Both Warrior and Savage failed to move the needle in their feud during the summer of 1992 so I think Vince was ready to move on at that point.

What were the plans for Bret Hart? He lost the IC title to Bulldog at Summerslam, and then with no build he suddenly won the WWF title and became the main guy. What were they going to do with him if Warrior-Flair happened as planned?

I think the long term plan was the put the WWF title on Bret. He was the most popular star at that point. He had main evented Wembley with the Bulldog. He lost. But he won something bigger. He proved to Vince he could carry a PPV. According to Bret the plan was to turn Warrior heel to set up a match between Warrior and Bret at Royal Rumble 1993 but as the previous post mentioned Warrior either 1)missed dates 2) failed a drug test or 3) a combo of both (most likely) so Vince deiced to make the move early.

 

[roipdh123]

I think that they wanted Money Inc. (C) vs The Ultimate Maniacs for the tag titles as WM9.
Then Bret wins the title at Survivor Series or the Rumble, and faces Yoko for the title.

Hogan was not a planned participant for WM9, so if he would have come back, he would have been in a program with Perfect or Luger, probably the latter.

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

@Makavekli31: I believe that Flair had severe balance issues attributed to a serious problem with one of his ears at this point, so it wasn't so much that Vince had 'lost confidence in him as a performer'; plus it was a rare sight to see anyone pull out a good match from the Warrior, evidently he only turned up (figuratively) when he could be bothered - ie Wrestlemania, as pretty much his only very good WWE matches were at WM 5, 6 and 7.

Also, Bret Hart never 'carried' the Summerslam 1992 ppv as, since it didn't air live in the USA, I understand that the US showing re-jogged the match order so that Savage v Warrior was the US main event (I may be wrong here but I've heard that story so many times)

 

[Wrestlingaholic]

With regards to the plan, it is likely correct that the aim was to build up the Ultimate Maniacs to face - and defeat - Money Inc. for the titles at Wrestlemania IX, given the match we actually got at WMIX.

With regards to Perfect, if he was feeling up to wrestling again, he probably would have turned on Heenan out of jealousy after the debut of the Narciccist Lex Luger and his "perfect" body. Where Ric Flair fits in all this I do not know. Indeed, would Luger have even debuted then if Flair didn't leave?

 

[Makaveli31]

I believe that Flair had severe balance issues attributed to a serious problem with one of his ears at this point, so it wasn't so much that Vince had 'lost confidence in him as a performer'; plus it was a rare sight to see anyone pull out a good match from the Warrior, evidently he only turned up (figuratively) when he could be bothered - ie Wrestlemania, as pretty much his only very good WWE matches were at WM 5, 6 and 7.

Well, whatever the reason Flair's performance in the ring had unquestionably diminished by 1992. He was not the main event at WrestleMania 8 despite being WWF Champion and was left off the SummerSlam 1992 card entirely. He was so bad in fact that Bret Hart, in his book and in interviews, admits he thought Flair was purposefully sandbagging his matches. Bret says wthat Vince thought he was not sandbagging "but maybe that's just how he works" so apparently Vince was not a fan of Flair's work either. Vince also humiliated Flair by stopping a match with Savage mid-stream, calling them back, reading both of the riot act then having them re-start the entire match once again. How else can you explain winning the belt at a pre-taped show then dropping the belt at a non-televised event? Flair's work was not up to par.

It's one thing to have bad matches with Warrior but how can you explain having bad matches with Bret Hart? We all know, as I explained, Warrior was limited but it was possible to have good matches with Warrior. Warrior was a "body" but if you wanted to work with him and make money you had to carry him. Rick Rude, Honky Tonk Man, Ted DiBiase, Curt Hennig they all did it and it passed muster. Why couldn't Flair, who self-admittedly "could work with a broom stick" not carry the Warrior even for ten minutes?

Also, Bret Hart never 'carried' the Summerslam 1992 ppv as, since it didn't air live in the USA, I understand that the US showing re-jogged the match order so that Savage v Warrior was the US main event (I may be wrong here but I've heard that story so many times)
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If you don't think Bret Hart carried the SummerSlam 1992 PPV you are living in a dream world. The entire focus of the PPV was on Bret vs Bulldog. Warrior/Savage was an afterthought. It was either going to be Bret vs. Shawn or Bret vs. Bulldog but according to Bret he gave Vince the idea of putting the show in London and have Davey go over. Vince entrusted Bret with the success of the PPV and if you believe Bret, he did everything in his power to make that PPV a success including carrying the Bulldog through the match. SummerSlam 1992 showed Vince that there was money in Bret Hart as a main event superstar.

 

[Makaveli31]

With regards to the plan, it is likely correct that the aim was to build up the Ultimate Maniacs to face - and defeat - Money Inc. for the titles at Wrestlemania IX, given the match we actually got at WMIX.

I highly doubt this. One only has to look at the logistics to realize this would not happen. Warrior and Savage, though at the end of their run, were without a doubt two of the highest paid performers in the WWF at the time. Warrior, as revealed in court documents, was making $500,000 PER PPV appearance, he also signed lucrative TV, house show, and merchandising deals before he was suspended in 1991 so WHY on earth would Vince McMahon stick his two high-paid, main event superstars in a TAG TEAM that would not even be the main event at WrestleMania 9. The plan OBVIOUSLY was to fire Warrior when his contract ran out in 1992 and slowly move Savage into an announcer's role in 1993 (which all happened).

 

[King Patrick Star]

First let’s answer the questions…in question…

When was the Warrior- Flair title match going to take place and who was going over?
I’m not sure when the Ric Flair vs. Ultimate Warrior match was going to take place. One would have to assume Royal Rumble 1993, but who knows.

Was Perfect going to return to the ring no matter what?
I’m guessing yes.

If Warrior stayed in the company, what were the plans for Perfect as no sudden face turn would've been needed?
I’d have to think that he would have stayed with Ric Flair and Bobby the Brain Heenan.

Was he going to get sick of Heenan and Flair no matter what and they just moved that storyline up?
Probably not.

Was Savage and Warrior going to be a temporary team up that ended after Survivor Series anyway?
This could have gone either way. I would have preferred them to either stay as a team or at least keep the alliance up as singles competitors.

Was Savage going to fade away and basically stop wrestling?
Of course, but only due to his age and the direction that the WWE was going at the time.

Was that the plan all along?
It could have been.

What were the plans for Bret Hart?
Bret Hart was planned to become the next Face of the WWE. Things just got pushed ahead of schedule.

What were they going to do with him if Warrior-Flair happened as planned?
The Hitman’s push would have been delayed a year.

Now, this is pure speculation, but I think, had the Ultimate Maniacs continued their storyline, it would have become the Stable War we all wanted to see. Let’s start after Survivor Series 1992 and pretend the scheduled Main Event match actually took place. Here’s how I would have booked it.

The Ultimate Maniacs defeat Ric Flair and Razor Ramon. Razor moves onto feud with Bret The Hitman Hart. The Ultimate Maniacs continue their feud with Ric Flair and Mr. Perfect. Flair and Perfect recruit Money Inc. and they form a new Stable, very similar to the Four Horsemen. This new Stable, managed by Bobby the Brain Heenan, beats down the Ultimate Maniacs, and out to make the save is the Mega Maniacs, managed by Jimmy Hart!! Red and Yellow clear the ring.

WrestleMania IX – 8-man Tag Team match
The Ultimate Mega Maniac Powers vs. the New Four Horsemen (I just can’t think of a better name for the Heels)

This keeps Hogan out of the Main Event of WrestleMania IX. This keeps Macho Man out of the announcer booth. This keeps Ultimate Warrior in the WWE. This keeps Mr. Perfect a Heel. This keeps Ric Flair in the WWE. Win-Win for everyone involved.

 

[HeenanGorilla]

This keeps Hogan out of the Main Event of WrestleMania IX.

Does it though? Haha.

I don't know that a bolt of lightning was keeping Hogan out of the Main Event @ WMIX. Certainly that boating accident/Savage beating/whatever injury to his eye didn't stop him. And being in the Tag Title Match didn't stop him, so I don't know why an 8-man tag would.

Savage/Warrior at VII, Savage/Flair at VIII, Bret/Yoko at IX...all could be argued as better options to close their show than the Hogan match we ended up with each time.

I am not attacking your idea for how this may have worked out. I just laughed when I saw the line I quoted above. Whether it was Vince not yet believing in Bret or Hogan pulling strings, "Real American" seemed destined to blast from the speakers as fans filed out of that ill-conceived outdoor parking lot of an arena.

 

[HBKperfect23]

First off, loved the summer of 1992 and the Warrior, Savage, Flair/Perfect angle.

A rumor I heard was at summerlsam 1992, the original plan was for warrior to turn heel aligning with Flair and Perfect. He had agreed to it but backed out last minute. This does seem far fetched to me but kind of makes sense with the angle of who's corner is Mr Perfect going to be in never playing out.

Mr Perfect returning to the ring, was seemingly out of desperation. There was literally no one else who would fit in the survivor series tag match. I don't think that was ever the plan, since Perfect was already cashing in on his Llyods of London policy.

As someone mentioned, Warrior/Flair seemed to be the fall of 1992 plan but obviously never came to be. The plan was for Shawn Michaels to become IC champion and it seemed like Bret may have been heading to a feud with Shawn for the IC title. It was announced at WM8, Shawn challenged the winner of the nights IC title match (Bret), Bret had mentioned he was going to drop the title to Shawn at summer slam until the ppv was confirmed for Wembley, and they were starting to wrestle each other on house shows. Although Bret has confirmed he was not penciled in to win the title until the day he actually won it, I think him delivering in a big way at Summerslam 92 had a lot to do with that decision.

There seemed to be a lot of last minute changes in late 1992. The new generation had to be organic and not really a long term plan. The guys being built in the summer of 1992 left quickly. 4/5 the guys in he double main event at summerslam and the focal point of the show all left/gave notice within a very short timeframe. Savage was the only one scheduled for time off after summer slam. Flair gave his notice, Bulldog/Warrior were fired. With Bret giving a 5 star performance at summerslam, he was the only logical choice.