What more will it take?

Smark fans will never like Reigns. No matter what he does, they will always boo him. They began hating him when they realized WWE liked him more than Daniel Bryan. That sealed Roman's fate. Hardcore fans have made up their minds and aren't coming back, no matter how well Roman does. He's not small and he doesn't do high spots, so he sucks. You can tell this is true when you read the crazy reasons they give for hating him. Doesn't matter, though. He draws money in several ways so he's there to stay.
 
Yeah, again you'll change your statement.

When you say that fans don't care about Dean Ambrose, then you imply that fans don't care about Dean Ambrose. There's no another way of it. There's no other meaning. You have said this multiple times while never saying what you mean. If he's over in a certain way then fans do care about him regardless of your or mine opinion. Don't just change your statement when you can't defend it rightly. Dean Ambrose didn't just used to be over, he's still over. I can give you multiple proofs but it won't matter as you'll again flip your stand. Ambrose still gets more cheers than both Rollins and Reigns. No boos like Reigns. And there's a formula with every wrestler. Dean Ambrose ain't any different. But NO, FANS DON'T CARE ABOUT DEAN AMBROSE. :shrug:

O.k, whatever you want want to believe. Obviously, we have 2 completly different way of thinking and you want to believe in a clear cut way of thinking while insultig my point of view, that's o.k, i learn my lesson with the dispute we had on another subject. I will still continue to think my way. I don't know how long you've been following wrestling but I've been following it for 30 years so my opinions will reflect that and when I write that ambrose is the less over former member of the shield is because of factor like the lack of reactions during his matches and his formulaic matches.

Fans today, want more then just the same old same old every time and will stop caring if you do the same thing every match. Reigns gets a huge reaction positive or negative he still gets a huge reaction from the moment he enters to the way he leave. Rollins same thing. Ambrose gets a pop when he enter then sometime gets a reaction during the match, sometimes he doesn't. But I'm sure like always you won't get this because you care more about proving me wrong then actually see a different perspective on a subject.
 
O.k, whatever you want want to believe. Obviously, we have 2 completly different way of thinking and you want to believe in a clear cut way of thinking while insultig my point of view, that's o.k, i learn my lesson with the dispute we had on another subject. I will still continue to think my way. I don't know how long you've been following wrestling but I've been following it for 30 years so my opinions will reflect that and when I write that ambrose is the less over former member of the shield is because of factor like the lack of reactions during his matches and his formulaic matches.

Fans today, want more then just the same old same old every time and will stop caring if you do the same thing every match. Reigns gets a huge reaction positive or negative he still gets a huge reaction from the moment he enters to the way he leave. Rollins same thing. Ambrose gets a pop when he enter then sometime gets a reaction during the match, sometimes he doesn't. But I'm sure like always you won't get this because you care more about proving me wrong then actually see a different perspective on a subject.
Insult your point of view? When did I do that?

You: Fans don't care about Dean Ambrose anymore.
I: Fans still do care about him with a proof.
You: He's kinda over but less.
I: Over means fans care about him. Fans won't pop for him if they don't care about him.

Where's the insult? But no continue saying that I'm insulting. Don't admit that you said something wrong as in "Fans don't care about Dean Ambrose any more". He still gets more cheers than Rollins and Reigns. But no, I insult your point of view and whatever more allegations/accusations you wana make.

From what I know about "Don't care" is that it means there's no reaction by crowd for a particular person. I didn't know that "Don't care" means "Actually care a lot enough to give a huge pop". I ain't here to prove you wrong. Just don't say something untrue like "Fans don't care for Dean Ambrose anymore". I have respect for watching wrestling since such a long time but something which is right is right regardless of your or my opinion.
 
Insult your point of view? When did I do that?

You: Fans don't care about Dean Ambrose anymore.
I: Fans still do care about him with a proof.
You: He's kinda over but less.
I: Over means fans care about him. Fans won't pop for him if they don't care about him.

Where's the insult? But no continue saying that I'm insulting. Don't admit that you said something wrong as in "Fans don't care about Dean Ambrose any more". He still gets more cheers than Rollins and Reigns. But no, I insult your point of view and whatever more allegations/accusations you wana make.

From what I know about "Don't care" is that it means there's no reaction by crowd for a particular person. I didn't know that "Don't care" means "Actually care a lot enough to give a huge pop". I ain't here to prove you wrong. Just don't say something untrue like "Fans don't care for Dean Ambrose anymore". I have respect for watching wrestling since such a long time but something which is right is right regardless of your or my opinion.

Again, love these discussion where having it's like a current fans of the product discussing the product with Jim Cornette. The current fan don't see what he did wrong and just see his side of the story no matter what. i acknowledge your point and your proof and i gave you an explanation to my point and you say that a change my stand about it because it doesn't fit what you think the definition of fans not caring means. So since i think of myself as the jim cornette of this board, all i have to say to you sir is, thank you, fuck you bye.
 
Again, love these discussion where having it's like a current fans of the product discussing the product with Jim Cornette. The current fan don't see what he did wrong and just see his side of the story no matter what. i acknowledge your point and your proof and i gave you an explanation to my point and you say that a change my stand about it because it doesn't fit what you think the definition of fans not caring means. So since i think of myself as the jim cornette of this board, all i have to say to you sir is, thank you, fuck you bye.
I'm not going to go to petty insults. But let's end it. I would really like to know what you mean by fans not caring at all. I don't think that people can have different meaning of "Not caring at all". If I don't care at all, it means that I won't react at all to Dean Ambrose. Neither cheer nor boos. What do you mean by "Not caring at all"? If you think that a person being over isn't cared at all by fans, then more power to you. Apollo Crews is someone whom fans don't care at all. Ciao.
 
It baffles me and frustrates me that WWE is so stubborn on this subject.

They have chosen Roman Reigns as their guy for the future. But he is simply not over.
Sure he is. What makes you think he's not over?

How can you build an era around a guy that gets booed out of every building they go to?
Easy. Why do you think someone has to get cheered to make money?

I hate every excuse WWE and some of the people on here give too.
"Well he sells the most merch." -- Big freaking deal. They also probably make more Roman Reigns merch than any other superstar. It has been the same with John Cena for years now. "He's the top merch seller"... yeah because when you go to get a shirt at an event, there are 5 different colored John Cena shirts to choose from, not to mention arm bands and other things.
I see your grasp of economics is not very strong.

"Well he gets a reaction wherever he goes. Doesn't matter if it's a good or a bad one, it's better than not getting one."
- While I do agree with that notion, in Roman Reigns case it's just simply not healthy. People are flat out pissed off about the continued push of this man without ANY CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT WHATSOEVER.
Are they pissed enough to stop buying the WWE product? No? Then you have no point.

Does WWE think that they have NOBODY else on this currently stacked roster that could sell more merch or be a bigger star than Roman Reigns right now?
If another wrestler could, why are they not?

They're putting all of their eggs in the Roman Reigns basket, and it's very frustrating to see.
Well, that's just downright false.

Turning him flow blown heel is absolutely 100% the only right answer.
Why? Why do you still subscribe to old and outdated methods?

Have him tear through every one on the roster (like he's already doing) but in a bad ass way.
You mean like they did when people started cheering him? Will you then come back and say he's a terrible heel because people cheer him?

You should stop, you're saying too many dumb things.
 
I'm not going to go to petty insults. But let's end it. I would really like to know what you mean by fans not caring at all. I don't think that people can have different meaning of "Not caring at all". If I don't care at all, it means that I won't react at all to Dean Ambrose. Neither cheer nor boos. What do you mean by "Not caring at all"? If you think that a person being over isn't cared at all by fans, then more power to you. Apollo Crews is someone whom fans don't care at all. Ciao.

If you want to konw what I mean by fans not caring, just read my previous, it was all explain their but since you seem like you didn't understood it the first time are a resume of my other posts.

Simply put, lately, fans pop for ambrose when they hear his music, but during his match, they're almost no reaction. They're a difference between getting a pop and being over and fans caring. When ambrose first started after the shield broke up, you could hear fans pop huge for him and then cheer for him during is match, now he still get the same pop even if it's a little less loud then it use to be but fans stop caring during his match, that's what I mean when I say fans don't cares about him.
 
If you want to konw what I mean by fans not caring, just read my previous, it was all explain their but since you seem like you didn't understood it the first time are a resume of my other posts.

Simply put, lately, fans pop for ambrose when they hear his music, but during his match, they're almost no reaction. They're a difference between getting a pop and being over and fans caring. When ambrose first started after the shield broke up, you could hear fans pop huge for him and then cheer for him during is match, now he still get the same pop even if it's a little less loud then it use to be but fans stop caring during his match, that's what I mean when I say fans don't cares about him.
I agree that the audience has somehow cooled off on Ambrose and the pop ain't as huge as in the past. Also, I agree that the reaction ain't huge when he's actually wrestling. But I still can't believe that fans don't care at all. I just rewatched his match against Kevin Owens and he did get cheered for his some regular moves. He even executed something out of the formula you mention. So, I would say that fans still care about him but it has decreased for sure.
 
I agree that the audience has somehow cooled off on Ambrose and the pop ain't as huge as in the past. Also, I agree that the reaction ain't huge when he's actually wrestling. But I still can't believe that fans don't care at all. I just rewatched his match against Kevin Owens and he did get cheered for his some regular moves. He even executed something out of the formula you mention. So, I would say that fans still care about him but it has decreased for sure.

So we finally agree on something, It took a long time but we finally did it, if we could have just have that type of understanding after my first post instead of all instead of being pig headed, I think we would have better discussion. Technicly, that's all I was saying when I was talking a out fan not caring anymore. I was basing my opinion on is mania match the past 2 years we're nobody was reacting to anything he did.
 
What more it'll take to make the audience cheer Roman Reigns?

A bad ass heel run.

Seriously, they should have done it with Cena and they are making the same mistake by not doing it with Reigns.

Look at The Rock for example, the fans absolutely hated him when he started out as a face so they turned him heel, he had his heel run, eventually turned face and the rest is history.

I'm not saying that Roman Reigns will be the next version of The Rock, but if WWE want Reigns to be the poster boy in the long-term then they should listen to the fans.

You've got Rollins, Balor etc. Imagine how hated Reigns would be if he was to join sides with HHH or if Reigns was to attack Rollins or Balor in the same kind of fashion that Strowman did to him on RAW.

They've got to think long-term.
 
Smark fans will never like Reigns. No matter what he does, they will always boo him. They began hating him when they realized WWE liked him more than Daniel Bryan. That sealed Roman's fate. Hardcore fans have made up their minds and aren't coming back, no matter how well Roman does. He's not small and he doesn't do high spots, so he sucks. You can tell this is true when you read the crazy reasons they give for hating him. Doesn't matter, though. He draws money in several ways so he's there to stay.

This really isn't the sole reason why the hate started. It began at the Summerslam he faced Orton at. The match was boring and you could tell there was a sense of something isn't right here. He was still cheered mostly after this and then got injured. His return promos made people start to turn on him as they realized he wasn't very good at them. His matches were lackluster (though he has fixed that). It wasn't like Roman all of a sudden went from 100% cheers to boos. There was already momentum against him before the Rumble. Most people recognized it was just too early for him to be put in the spot he was in.

His promos and feuds after the Rumble were pretty bad (not 100% his fault, lack of top guys due to injuries to feud with and they didn't play to his strengths). This pretty much cemented him getting booed.
 
Turn him heel and let him cut promos about his ride to the top. He'll instantly become top face.

Alternatively, they might have some success if he drops the Shield theme and gear, then becomes something of a 90s Sting/Goldberg character who rarely speaks.
 
This feels like the same talk we had back in 2006 when Cena was top dog and was beating everyone senseless.

I don't think Reigns should turn heel per-say, as he does do great numbers in terms of merchandising; but at some point, there should at least be a compromise from both sides. What I personally think would be that compromise is that Reigns turns into the WWE's version of Batman, a vigilante who has his allies but prefers to fight alone, taking on anyone who doesn't stand for his brand of justice.
 
It baffles me and frustrates me that WWE is so stubborn on this subject.

They have chosen Roman Reigns as their guy for the future. But he is simply not over. How can you build an era around a guy that gets booed out of every building they go to?

I hate every excuse WWE and some of the people on here give too.
"Well he sells the most merch." -- Big freaking deal. They also probably make more Roman Reigns merch than any other superstar. It has been the same with John Cena for years now. "He's the top merch seller"... yeah because when you go to get a shirt at an event, there are 5 different colored John Cena shirts to choose from, not to mention arm bands and other things.

"Well he gets a reaction wherever he goes. Doesn't matter if it's a good or a bad one, it's better than not getting one."
- While I do agree with that notion, in Roman Reigns case it's just simply not healthy. People are flat out pissed off about the continued push of this man without ANY CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT WHATSOEVER.

Does WWE think that they have NOBODY else on this currently stacked roster that could sell more merch or be a bigger star than Roman Reigns right now? Give me a freaking break.
They're putting all of their eggs in the Roman Reigns basket, and it's very frustrating to see.

Turning him flow blown heel is absolutely 100% the only right answer.

Have him tear through every one on the roster (like he's already doing) but in a bad ass way. Have him attacking people in the backstage area, like how Braun attacked him the other night.

Imagine if Roman had done that attack on someone like Finn Balor? Great heel heat for Roman, great comeback story and actual sympathy for Finn. No one is sympathizing with Roman after Monday.
Instead we have Roman in the backstage getting interviewed by Michael Cole about his match with Undertaker at Mania, shrugging his shoulders with his good boy act saying "listen I just come here and do what I need to do to be the best." Or some BS like that.
WHY?
He should have said "Hell yeah I retired the Undertaker. I would do it again if I had to. The Deadman was way past his prime, and at Wrestlmania I put him out of his misery. As for what's next? Well I'm putting the whole Raw locker room on notice, that this is my show, and that ring is my yard. I don't care if you're Finn Balor, Seth Rollins, or Brock Lesnar I will send your ass to join the deadman in the retirement home in heartbeat. Believe that."

WWE is so scared of turning him heel same with John Cena, which literally makes no sense. Have they not watched wrestling or their own product?? Every single big name that there ever was, excluding Cena (not really counting when he first came in as a heel. Plus Roman originally came in as heel w/ the Sheild), has been heel at one point throughout their singles run. And in almost every single instance, it has made that persons character more fresh, more entertaining, and more over in the long run.

The Rock: Rocky Miavia --> The Rock. He eventually got so over as the heel that he became one of the biggest Faces OF ALL TIME...... and they STILL turned him heel later on down the road. To corporate Rock and again later to Hollywood Rock.

Stone Cold: Turned heel at mania 17, maybe not the best heel run, but his character became more developed and we got to see a different side of him that was ultimately beneficial.

Hulk Hogan has done a big heel turn, Undertaker has been heel, literally every big name at one point or another has ran as a heel at some point in there career.

Look at the popularity of WWE/Professional Wrestling since the Cena era began.... probably some of the lowest times. Why? Because WWE thought it was a good idea if THEY hand picked ONE guy to be "The Face if the company" and then not change or develope his character AT ALL in about 13 years and counting.
Now WWE is setting up that very same pattern with their new "Face of the company" Roman Reigns.

It's frustrating from a fans standpoint because, yes I'm going to watch anyway. I've been watching for almost 20 years, I'm a fan, I'm committed. Plus there are enough characters and superstars right now that I do very much enjoy that I can stay tuned. But WWE could be WAY more popular if they changed up the way they look at things. Don't force feed us a bland Roman Reigns over and over and over again for the next 15 years. Turning him heel gets people talking. It could be a step in the direction of making Wrestling cool again.

Turning him heel also creates other big stars in the process. Roman as a dominant monster heel, could create huge face stars out of guys like Seth, Finn, AJ, Dean, Nakurmara, and others. I'm talking bigger than they already are.

I would also like to say, that watching a Roman Reigns match is not terrible. I absolutely despise the superman punch, but other than that I typically enjoy his matches. It's his character and the lack of development, and WWE's need for him to be this good guy with only a little bit of attitude that I hate.

"How do you simply build an era over a guy who gets booed out of every building?"

They have done it for the last 12 years with John Cena, and it hasn't hurt business.

Maybe they make more John Cena merchandise because John Cena SELLS more merchandise. There is a demand there, and WWE are increasing supply to meet it.

I doubt someone like Jinder Mahal would become more popular if they made more TV shirts for him.

Turn Roman heel, turn Cena heel etc. Hell, why not just turn everyone heel. Have WWE have only heels and no faces at all. That will solve the problem.

"CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT"- You people don't care about character development or backstory. You want flippity-flip guys who break their neck jumping off the ropes or who wrestled in ROH or Japan. Roman did none of these, so you hate on him.

Further though, you would even hate on someone like Finn Balor if Balor had got the "Roman Reigns" push. In fact he did. He got a WWE Universal Title shot at the company's second-biggest PPV, in his first night on RAW. Talk about pushing someone to the moon. Not bad for a skinny Pom the mainstream would have never have heard of, and doesn't even wrestle under his indy name now.

But if Vince decided to push Finn Balor to the moon, and you people hadn't made that decision first, and he was everywhere, and held the title for months, you would boo him too, and demand that he be a heel. You know why?

Because the fans think they run things now. They mistakenly believe that because they pay for a seat, the Network, or a T-shirt, that they are entitled to far more than that, and that Vince must do everything they demand, or else. You are petulant, and throw your toys unless you get your own way every day. YOU decide who is the next star, not Vince. Unless you people choose that person first, you will never accept Vince's choice. You want Vince to listen to YOUR ideas, but you will never accept any of his, unless you people thought of it first.

You're pissed off because when you people say jump, Vince McMahon doesn't say "How high?" . In your minds, you run WWE, and because you pay a little bit of money towards them, that somehow gives you the right to dictate the entire running of a multi-million dollar company.

I hope Reigns doesn't turn heel, just to piss you off, just out of spite. You see, it is Vince playing you people like a fiddle, not the other way around. You hate who he pushes, yet you keep watching and talking about it, meaning that he wins. If you REALLY wanted to make your voice heard, you would not attend any more shows, not watch their shows, cancel your Network subscription, and not read, hear or watch anything WWE-related. Don't give them a cent, then it will hurt Vince, where it hurts, the hip pocket.

But you won't do it, will you? Come on, put up or shut up. If you don't like Roman as the top guy, then go off and do something else, and that includes no longer whining on wrestlezone (because if you now longer follow the product, then how can you comment on it).

You don't sound very happy with WWE, so why keep giving your money to someone or something which makes you angry, and not happy?

Unless you give up WWE "cold turkey",then you are all just talk, and there is no reason for Vince to listen to any of you, if you are just going to watch and then whine, month after month, year after year, about Roman Reigns. Vince has heard it all before, with John Cena being pushed, and yet you people are still here.Vince has your money, that's all he wants. Money is still money, whether you actually like the product, or are just addicted to it. Unless you stop coming on here and complaining about it, Vince wins every time.
 
In terms of what we see on tv - Roman Reigns should change yes. I stopped watching WWE properly last year when the rosters were split up but still watch the odd segment on you tube. I also like to read the forums and 'dirt sheets' from time to time, will never kick the habit fully so to speak.

Roman Reigns, just like John Cena makes the WWE bucket loads of money. So did Hogan, Austin and Rock, yet they were mostly cheered. WWE is a business first and even though the product they put out today may not be what we want, all they want to do is make money. Vince and co make more money from the WWE as a business, not just the wrestling product every week but the Network, movies, sponsorship etc and so they are not going to change a formula that makes money. It's a shame as if they operated like they did in 2000 with today's roster the product would be amazing but hey, life goes on I guess. Money talks, and while Vince makes shed loads of it, Roman Reigns will stay the same.
 
So it's hard for me to quote you guys and respond to every question or comment you guys made about my original post. Plus I do this on my phone, so doing all that is just a little time consuming and confusing. I'll do my best to touch on a few of the comments.

Anyway, it seems my post has upset a couple of you. Sorry about that, I never meant for my opinion to ruin your day.

Firstly, when did I ever say Jinder Mahal could be a star? Lol

Secondly, to d_henderson1810, I'm going to keep watching wrestling, not because I enjoy it, no no. I'm going to keep watching out of spite to you and just to piss you off!

Really though, I just wanna say... I think this whole topic is most frustrating as a fan because, even though WWE has had some of their biggest years recently, I just feel like they could still be doing better.

If you look at the Cena era, yeah Cena is a huge star, one of the biggest of all time.
But make a list of superstars from that era who ARE big stars, then make a list of superstars from that era that COULD have been big stars if they were just given more opportunity. (And I'm not just talking about freaking tshirts) WWE didn't really make that many stars because their sole focus was pretty much John Cena. Which is a big reason why right now WWE is relying so hard on part timers.

Yes Cena sold the most merch so that's why they made more merch for him, I get it. But imagine if WWE would have put more focus on a few others then WWE could have not just one guy selling that much merch, but two or three, or more guys selling that much.
Plus, then you're offering more variety for your main events. Thus, pleasing more people, gaining more viewers, and making more money!!

What's different between Cena and Reigns however, is that before Cena was the "top guy", he actually got over on his own. His gimmick just started to run stale and then that's when people started booing. Reigns has yet to get over on his own, yet he is still being pushed as the main event. Another reason people boo him.

The process was a little different between two.
Cena: got over ---> pushed to main evernt ---> became stale/same thing over and over again ---> started getting booed ---> still hasnt stopped.
(Although Cena being part time now and pretty consistently putting on great matches has helped him)

Roman, who like I said in my original post, doesn't put on bad matches, just his character has not developed. And to d_henderson again, don't tell me that I don't really care about character development and that all I care about is "flippity-flips". Lol like what?
I 100% care about character development. It's one of the most important things about wrestling and any tv show for that matter. I do love a good flippity-flip every now and again though.

Long story short: even if they don't turn Roman heel, change something!!!! Give his character some depth, make him a little more interesting by doing something. Whether that's a heel turn, having him create a faction, or rejoining the shield as long as it's different and we don't see the same exact character for 10-15 years.

One other thing I talked about in my original post was how almost every big name has been heel at one point or another throughout their career. I NEVER said though, that every "Top guy" has turned heel while they were the "top guy" I think that some of you possibly misunderstood that. I kind of meant it more as in order to ever be over as a baby face "Top guy", it is more beneficial and natural if they are a heel and naturally get over as face. In Roman Reigns case, it's almost as if WWE/Vince has hand picked him and said "he's the guy we're going with. He will be a baby face, people will love it." It's not natural at all, the process has been way too forced and I think that's another reason people continue to boo him.

Another thing I said in my original post,
I'm going to keep watching regardless. I've been a fan for 20 years now. I'm committed. I'm committed to the stories, the characters, the match quality, everything. Idc if Vince McMahon has my money or if he "gets the last laugh", it's simply not about that to me. It's my right, to express an opinion about something that I'm not necessarily a fan of, and I voiced my frustration not because I hate Roman Reigns personally, I just hate what WWE is doing with his character
 
While it isn't my show to run, I do think WWE missed a golden opportunity with Reigns right after 'Mania. His heat was off the charts at that moment. It really seemed like they could have put him against somebody well-loved (as much as there is such a thing today in WWE) and let RR play the arrogant punk with superstar talent and no class. Honestly, I can't recall anybody in the last decade having that kind of heat.

There are reasons I could be totally wrong.
Maybe wiser heads than mine saw the heat as only temporary. Maybe they knew it wouldn't last.
Maybe I forgot that was the infamous "Raw After Mania" crowd and the creative team is being smart in not giving that night's reaction too much credit.
Maybe it was such an intense heat that they felt it would do irreparable damage to RR as a moneymaker in the long run.
Maybe the switch right there would have upset plans that had been laid out long before and screwed up storylines for lots of people.
Maybe....

But my gut is still that they had a shot there and let it slide by them.

One final set of thoughts... is getting the crowd to cheer for RR even a goal the WWE needs to pursue? Is getting the crowd to react in any specific way worth pursuing anymore? It seems like the teen and young adult male demo is smarky enough to sense where the promotion wants to go and will instantly do the opposite just to prove they can.
 

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