What is Wrestling?

[He's Phenomenal]

The thinking behind this is the sheer variety of complaints you see on these forums (most are in the TNA section so that's why I've posted this here - please move if needs be). The complaints range from their guy not being pushed, to veterans/legends in the business, to gimmick matches, to comedy, to just about everything. And is that because wrestling is essentially a variety show? Is that why there are so many different things to complain about?

A good Professional Wrestling show, should have many different aspects to it and have as much variety as possible, in order to appeal to a wider audience. But it seems like todays (internet) fans want everything set in stone, no variety, 30 minute matches and everyone to be a youngster. Why? That would be flat out boring and then we'd have nothing to talk about. You need the larger than life characters, the emotions, the violence, the unrealistic stories, the realistic stories, the legends, the stables, the hot chicks, the gimmick matches, the comedy, the swerves, the hated guy in a good spot etc. All this is needed for a good Professional Wrestling show. If only for the reason it gives you something to talk/moan about. Who actually believes ROH will succeed and make it into other markets? They are probably the definition of what Wrestling is to some but they are not Professional Wrestling. And I'd be surprised if they ever make it onto my TV.

And as much as "wrestling" is apart of Professional Wrestling, it's not the only aspect. You need soo much more than just that. When Pro Wrestling boomed in the 80's, from what I've seen they were hardly all action displays (I was born late 80's so didn't see it at the time). But I do know they had some big characters back then. Even if I just think back to the main stars in the era's I've watched Professional Wrestling: Hulk Hogan, Undertaker, Goldberg, Sting, Mankind, Stone Cold etc. None of those guys were/are known for their amazing in ring ability, yet they're some of the biggest stars/draws in recent years. Hell just look at the biggest star in todays wrestling. How many people think John Cena is a great technical wrestler?

Obviously the big characters are not the only guys you need on a roster. That's where variety comes in again. You need the technical wrestlers, the high flyers, the submission wrestlers, the brawlers, the jobber (bring him back), the grapplers and some people might not like to admit it...but veterans/legends are also a big part of the business. And they deserve more respect. Not only are they needed to attract fans, they are also needed to make new stars. Would Mankind have become what he did if he'd entered a feud with some unknown kid back in 1996? Would the nWo have been what it was if it was three rookies? Would Stone Cold have become what he did without the Mr McMahon character? I don't know of any recent ones but I'm assuming Randy Orton and John Cena beat some veterans on their way to becoming stars.

Gimmick matches seem to have a bad name today aswell. Even outlandish gimmicks for wrestlers. Pretty much anthing that's different and against the norm. But why? Gimmick matches can be used as a good end to a feud or just as a different match in an extended feud. And why are extended feuds now frowned upon (as long as it's not the only thing happening, what's the problem)? And what's wrong with a character who's not very serious?

IMO Wrestling is like a variety show and people need to remember that Wrestling is not the real World. But what is Wrestling to you?

 

[Kyle316]

CM Punk has given everybody something to talk about
Kelly Kelly gives me something to moan about.

 

[Syd Liberty]

First, ROH is really a great step forward for wrestling. Will it be WWE big? Fuck no. But it will force change a little bit, in the same way ECW did, except unlike ECW, ROH could benefit wrestling in a positive way(Yeah, ECW sucked, I said it.)

Wrestling to me, is best defined and best produced as Jim Cornette said, as Entertaining Sport rather than Sports Entertainment. Especially in today's world, where UFC is the fastest growing sport in the world, the sport aspect of wrestling needs to return.

However, I agree that wrestling needs variety. It needs bigger than life stars and it needs believable athletes. It needs the odd gimmick match(If not overused) and it has come to need the odd leftfield gimmick here and there, which is fun. Santino Marrello is an important part of the show, as was Shark Boy, as is El Generico. Wrestling however, definitely needs to start making more sense, and being less offensive to a fan's intelligence. TNA gets picked on a lot, and Jesus Christ Almighty do they ever deserve it. It's insulting to my intelligence. At least ROH doesn't make me embarrassed to watch it, or feel like a fucking moron for wasting time I could spend jacking off, watching a talented roster have three minute matches so Sting can be Jack Nicholson and Hogan and suck his on cock. Sorry, but it's true.

I went off on tangents, but whatever.

 

[trinerigelado]

It used to be wrestling tried to make the most money they could. That sometimes meant holding off a match for a little longer, put it this way what if Punk would occasionally show up on a random Raw or PPV, and for months everytime he showed up they would try to interview him or HHH would try to get him to talk him they eventually sign him to wrestle Cena at the Rumble I guarantee that ppv would do way better than Survivor Series you know why aticipation? The world champs only defended on live shows, ppv's or SNME/COC now they defend on you're weekly shows, why pay for what I get for free. It used be if someone debuted they won a lot right away, now if you debut and win 4 matches that's considered a big push, why should I believe someone should be a star when for two years the won 1 and loss 4 if WWE debuted someone and they won strongly for 6 months on TV kept them away from the world title and then had a face off with tyhe champ people would be excited for that match.

 

[RATED R CHAMPION]

The thinking behind this is the sheer variety of complaints you see on these forums (most are in the TNA section so that's why I've posted this here - please move if needs be). The complaints range from their guy not being pushed, to veterans/legends in the business, to gimmick matches, to comedy, to just about everything. And is that because wrestling is essentially a variety show? Is that why there are so many different things to complain about?

A good Professional Wrestling show, should have many different aspects to it and have as much variety as possible, in order to appeal to a wider audience. But it seems like todays (internet) fans want everything set in stone, no variety, 30 minute matches and everyone to be a youngster. Why? That would be flat out boring and then we'd have nothing to talk about. You need the larger than life characters, the emotions, the violence, the unrealistic stories, the realistic stories, the legends, the stables, the hot chicks, the gimmick matches, the comedy, the swerves, the hated guy in a good spot etc. All this is needed for a good Professional Wrestling show. If only for the reason it gives you something to talk/moan about. Who actually believes ROH will succeed and make it into other markets? They are probably the definition of what Wrestling is to some but they are not Professional Wrestling. And I'd be surprised if they ever make it onto my TV.

And as much as "wrestling" is apart of Professional Wrestling, it's not the only aspect. You need soo much more than just that. When Pro Wrestling boomed in the 80's, from what I've seen they were hardly all action displays (I was born late 80's so didn't see it at the time). But I do know they had some big characters back then. Even if I just think back to the main stars in the era's I've watched Professional Wrestling: Hulk Hogan, Undertaker, Goldberg, Sting, Mankind, Stone Cold etc. None of those guys were/are known for their amazing in ring ability, yet they're some of the biggest stars/draws in recent years. Hell just look at the biggest star in todays wrestling. How many people think John Cena is a great technical wrestler?

Obviously the big characters are not the only guys you need on a roster. That's where variety comes in again. You need the technical wrestlers, the high flyers, the submission wrestlers, the brawlers, the jobber (bring him back), the grapplers and some people might not like to admit it...but veterans/legends are also a big part of the business. And they deserve more respect. Not only are they needed to attract fans, they are also needed to make new stars. Would Mankind have become what he did if he'd entered a feud with some unknown kid back in 1996? Would the nWo have been what it was if it was three rookies? Would Stone Cold have become what he did without the Mr McMahon character? I don't know of any recent ones but I'm assuming Randy Orton and John Cena beat some veterans on their way to becoming stars.

Gimmick matches seem to have a bad name today aswell. Even outlandish gimmicks for wrestlers. Pretty much anthing that's different and against the norm. But why? Gimmick matches can be used as a good end to a feud or just as a different match in an extended feud. And why are extended feuds now frowned upon (as long as it's not the only thing happening, what's the problem)? And what's wrong with a character who's not very serious?

IMO Wrestling is like a variety show and people need to remember that Wrestling is not the real World. But what is Wrestling to you?

Pretty clear you're a attitude era fan, hot chiks, swerves, hated guy in the right place, variety, you see wrestling is something a lot of people are missing today, wrestling is PSYCHOLOGY something most of you know nothing about, im not a mark, im a booker and wrestler, I have my own small company in my homecountry, so I know what im saying.

Yes you need big stars, but a roster is compiled of everything, from enhancement talent (jobber for your understanding), to mid card, to upper mid card, to main event.

ROH is WRESTLING my friend, there is nothing wrong with a 30 minute match, hell! I would love 1 hour matches like the good old days of the NWA, that's the real beauty of performing my man, not the 10 minute main event we see sometimes today, so if you say is boring, watch RIC FLAIR VS RICKY STEAMBOAT FROM CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS VI, is a 55 MINUTE match, that's! a match.

 

[mlp420]

First off, the whining about veterans/legend boils down to this: If you haven't noticed, a lot of internet fans are just advocates for certain wrestlers. They have their favorites, and they want to see them make it big. If they see someone else getting in the way of one of their favorites getting a push they feel he/she deserves, they'll convince themselves that the promotion in question (usually TNA) is on the path to ruin as a result of their guy(s) not getting that push. It really isn't about age. They'll focus on age if it works, but if it doesn't, they'll just find another angle.

Just look at Crimson. He's a young guy getting a big push in TNA. A lot of people don't like that he's getting pushed ahead of other "TNA Originals" but they can't use his age against him, so what do they do? Compare his push to Goldberg's. "Hey look TNA's trying to rehash Goldberg! They're making the same mistakes WCW did!"

As far as your other point goes, of course wrestling is all about variety. Wrestling, storylines, and characters. But if the storylines and characters aren't compelling, it brings down the whole product. Have you noticed that there's not much complaining about how much actual wrestling is on Raw now? That's because Raw has a very compelling storyline going. There's probably no more in ring action now than their was during the heralded Attitude Era. But when the storylines and characters are lousy, people want more wrestling.

 

[jaceynightheat]

First, ROH is really a great step forward for wrestling. Will it be WWE big? Fuck no. But it will force change a little bit, in the same way ECW did, except unlike ECW, ROH could benefit wrestling in a positive way(Yeah, ECW sucked, I said it.)

Wrestling to me, is best defined and best produced as Jim Cornette said, as Entertaining Sport rather than Sports Entertainment. Especially in today's world, where UFC is the fastest growing sport in the world, the sport aspect of wrestling needs to return.
.

ECW had horrible wrestlers like Chris Jericho, Eddy Guerrero, Dean Malenko, Rey Misterio Jr. ;]

Professional Wrestling is nothing more than stunt men/women putting on a show. I think every time Pro Wrestling tries to be "real" it hurts itself. MMA is a big thing now, if I want to watch real, I'll watch MMA or boxing. Not someone to pretend to be a MMA fighter.

Variety of characters & types of wrestlers is needed. As in types I mean like acrobatic, strong guy, grapplers & so on.

 

[TM Punk]

Pretty clear you're a attitude era fan, hot chiks, swerves, hated guy in the right place, variety, you see wrestling is something a lot of people are missing today, wrestling is PSYCHOLOGY something most of you know nothing about, im not a mark, im a booker and wrestler, I have my own small company in my homecountry, so I know what im saying.

Yes you need big stars, but a roster is compiled of everything, from enhancement talent (jobber for your understanding), to mid card, to upper mid card, to main event.

ROH is WRESTLING my friend, there is nothing wrong with a 30 minute match, hell! I would love 1 hour matches like the good old days of the NWA, that's the real beauty of performing my man, not the 10 minute main event we see sometimes today, so if you say is boring, watch RIC FLAIR VS RICKY STEAMBOAT FROM CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS VI, is a 55 MINUTE match, that's! a match.

You paid a couple thousand dollars to get trained to be a wrestler. And now you put up your own hard earned money to set up wrestling shows. You love wrestling sooo much that you risk your own well being and your own money so you can do it. You're a mark!! I hate it when indy wrestlers have this holier than thou attitude about wrestling fans. We're all marks! Especially those of us who do this. (Which I will be in the very near future)

And he wasn't saying that 30 minute matches are bad, WWE has them all the time. They sometimes just choose to sacrifice that for segments. That's not a bad thing. If all RAW was is 4 matches it would be boring.

Wrestling is, was, and always will be the most dangerous form of performance art. Its ballet, its theater. Its funny, its sad, its violent. It has the ability to evoke from you EVERY emotion you have, and its not only in ring action that does this, its the whole thing. Yes ROH is a good alternative when you want to see straight wrestling matches, but it will never be anyones first choice... except of course for the marks.

 

[THE AWESOME MIZFIT]

Wrestling in the sense of pro wrestling is a combination of many different things. You have to be able to constantly build your character. You need to be able to be physically fit. You don't have to be jacked but you need some kind of conditioning. You also need to be able to communicate with not just the other superstars but with the audience. You need to be a good mic worker. What i mean by that is you need to think off the top of your head and be able to connect with what you are trying to say. That is why actors can never come in to the WWE and do what they do. You also need to be marketable. At least in the current state of wrestling marketing goes along way. Finally you have to have some kind of in ring ability. You need to look fluid when you wrestle. You can't be sloppy.

 

[RATED R CHAMPION]

You paid a couple thousand dollars to get trained to be a wrestler. And now you put up your own hard earned money to set up wrestling shows. You love wrestling sooo much that you risk your own well being and your own money so you can do it. You're a mark!! I hate it when indy wrestlers have this holier than thou attitude about wrestling fans. We're all marks! Especially those of us who do this. (Which I will be in the very near future)

And he wasn't saying that 30 minute matches are bad, WWE has them all the time. They sometimes just choose to sacrifice that for segments. That's not a bad thing. If all RAW was is 4 matches it would be boring.

Wrestling is, was, and always will be the most dangerous form of performance art. Its ballet, its theater. Its funny, its sad, its violent. It has the ability to evoke from you EVERY emotion you have, and its not only in ring action that does this, its the whole thing. Yes ROH is a good alternative when you want to see straight wrestling matches, but it will never be anyones first choice... except of course for the marks.

Agree with you in several things my friend, I just think im not a mark but anyway I accept anybody's opinion on me, but just to clear up I didn't paid to be trained, I've trained on my own and im proud of what I've done, I wrestle, I study the territories, read the books, see the classic matches from all over the world, and all those things, appreciate your comments, but Im kind of a different fan, because I have the viewing side of things from the wrestler perspective and the fan perspective, anyway respect your opinion, what I agree on is we all LOVE WRESTLING and that's the most important thing!

 

[neildittmar]

Professional wrestling is that thing that Hulk Hogan does.

Professional wrestling is one of the lowest forms of low-brow entertainment and not something that any self-respecting person would watch or admit to watching. It's a spectacle for the easily amused and/or mentally deficient demographic present in the locations that shows are held or televised.

Professional wrestling is a fake sport full of ego-driven, steroid fueled muscleheads and bottle-blonde, surgically enhanced bimbos that care more about their physiques and face-time on the camera than actually accomplishing something in the real world of professional sports competition. Their athletic ability is about as real as the punches they pull or the chairs they appear to hit themselves in the head with.

Professional wrestling is a larger than life circus, with some of the craziest, most logic defying characters and storylines in all of entertainment. Themes, personalities, and environments that regular TV programming won't touch, Professional Wrestling not only accepts but embraces with open arms, resulting in a counter-culture form of entertainment that has survived and even thrived through the decades.

Professional wrestling is an athletic exhibition where hard working men and women put their bodies, careers, and even lives on the line for the sole purpose of entertaining the fans who paid for a ticket, bought merchandise, purchased PPV, or even just watched on TV. These characters are our heroes and villains, ones to look up to and ones to revile. They love what they do and do what they love. The fans admiration and appreciation is the greatest method of repayment a professional wrestler can receive. Professional wrestling is one of the finest forms of direct fan interactive entertainment available today.

Professional Wrestling can be all these things and more.

 

[TWJC: The Beginning]

Pretty clear you're a attitude era fan, hot chiks, swerves, hated guy in the right place, variety, you see wrestling is something a lot of people are missing today, wrestling is PSYCHOLOGY something most of you know nothing about, im not a mark, im a booker and wrestler, I have my own small company in my homecountry, so I know what im saying.
Yes you need big stars, but a roster is compiled of everything, from enhancement talent (jobber for your understanding), to mid card, to upper mid card, to main event.

ROH is WRESTLING my friend, there is nothing wrong with a 30 minute match, hell! I would love 1 hour matches like the good old days of the NWA, that's the real beauty of performing my man, not the 10 minute main event we see sometimes today, so if you say is boring, watch RIC FLAIR VS RICKY STEAMBOAT FROM CLASH OF THE CHAMPIONS VI, is a 55 MINUTE match, that's! a match.

That does not mean you know what you're saying. Any fucktard can buy a ring and pay guys. Any fucktard can buy a ring and train guys. Any fucktard can sign up and get trained by a fucktard and think they're a wrestler, then turn around and train other fucktards, then use the money they made by scheming guys to open up their new fed "fucktards rasslin".

Now, I'm not saying you're a fucktard, just saying that in today's day an age, just saying you are a booker/wrestler/trainer doesn't mean anything. Who were you trained by?

You're right, wrestling is psychology. It's a highly physical performance art used to draw out an emotional response from your audience. I too love long matches. It's one reason Bryan Danielson was one of my favorite guys in ROH, he had long, drawn out, smart matches.

However, WWE is every bit as much "wrestling" as that. The kid who has every piece of John Cena merchandise is every bit as much of a fan as me, a guy who almost killed himself in the ring training at the Harley race wrestling academy and has gotten up at 9am, driven 7 hours to a ROH show, stayed late to chat with the undercard and students, then driven 7 hours back home and finally to sleep at 8am the next day.

Pro wrestling started in carnivals. You had the guy who couldn't be beat, people took bets, then the "local boy" plant came up, lost, and they took everyone's money. It's been evolving ever since.

Gotch vs Hackenschmidt is every bit as much wrestling as Superstar Graham vs Bob Backund, as much as wrestling as Hogan vs Andre as much as HBK vs Hart as much as Rock vs Austin as much as Misawa vs Kawada as much as Joe vs Punk as much as Cena vs Batista.

It's all pro wrestling. It's all using a physical performance art to make money and create and emotional response. Saying Flair vs Steamboat is more "pro wrestling" than any other successful match is like saying Ty Cobb was more of a baseball player than Albert Pujols because they played the game more to your liking back then. It's all the same, just different evolutions and different varieties.

I think the guy above me said it best though. I really do feel it has to be experienced to be appreciated. My girlfriend had been humoring me and watching Raw with me. I took her to a house show, she had a blast. She said "now I get it, you can feel it. It's cool. It's not like theater or anything else."

BTW, PM me about your promotion.

 

[Dizzy]

First, ROH is really a great step forward for wrestling. Will it be WWE big? Fuck no. But it will force change a little bit, in the same way ECW did, except unlike ECW, ROH could benefit wrestling in a positive way(Yeah, ECW sucked, I said it.)

ROH is a DISGRACE to wrestling. I'm not going to sugarcoat it. Why is it a disgrace?

Because are not even close to the recognition of ECW. Their foot is already in the grave but fans ignore it and wait for when TNA and WWE go out of business. How idiotic is that?

They never got any viewers on HDNet (Owned by Mark Cuban) now they sold their company to Sinclair which is an AFFILIATE network which means people who want ROH would have to watch at 1am and 3am in the morning and there is no guarantee that it will be in your area. Let's get that shit clear.

Now, ROH is a disgrace because they have created a group of fans that think 2 hours of wrestling and 5 promos is a good show. Mic skills, marketability, none of that matters. If you fly around the ring or look anything like CM Punk, you should be signed. That's the NEGATIVE stigma ROH has left in pro-wrestling.

Nobody else outside of the Internet wants to see that shit. WWE is doing a storyline with Punk that everyone in the IWC loves because he is pandering towards them. However, ratings show (3.3) that the storyline is a failure in WWE's standards of ratings and viewership. If a PPV isn't 10$ for a stream, nobody wants to buy it. This is what ROH has brought to pro-wrestling. It's not good for business at all.

ROH fans have no problem losing talent after talent within the promotion but if it were WWE or TNA doing that they would get criticized to no end.

Wrestling to me, is best defined and best produced as Jim Cornette said, as Entertaining Sport rather than Sports Entertainment. Especially in today's world, where UFC is the fastest growing sport in the world, the sport aspect of wrestling needs to return.

It's not fast growing anymore.

Look, If wrestling was viewed as sporty ROH would have gotten a deal with multiple cable networks that airs sports. But they rejected them. Here in the US, people see wrestling as entertainment and I do not believe anyone will ever see it as a sport.

TNA gets picked on a lot, and Jesus Christ Almighty do they ever deserve it. It's insulting to my intelligence. At least ROH doesn't make me embarrassed to watch it, or feel like a fucking moron for wasting time I could spend jacking off, watching a talented roster have three minute matches so Sting can be Jack Nicholson and Hogan and suck his on cock. Sorry, but it's true.

Go watch a bunch of unlikable guys wrestle for no reason.

Sting is being ENTERTAINING. Do not say wrestling needs to be an Entertainment Sport or a Mix then bitch about it.

TNA has QUALITY matches for 6 minutes. I'd rather watch a 6 minute quality match than a 20 minute boring ass match. It's not about the minutes. If you enjoy the match, that's what matters. It's a disgrace fans like you have to throw around how long a match was as a reason to dislike it. You think anyone goes to a Baseball, Football or Basketball game and criticizes it by saying how long it was?

If you want 10 or 20 minute matches go buy Pay Per Views. That's what they are there for. WWE has 40 minutes of wrestling on SmackDown. That's great but their buyrates after Wrestlmania are 65,000. Their spoiling their viewers and buyrates (Which make them money) are hurting because of it.

That's the importance of Pay Per Views. Don't complain if TNA doesn't air 10 minute matches or 20 minute matches. Complain if they have 7 minute PPV matches.

 

[RATED R CHAMPION]

That does not mean you know what you're saying. Any fucktard can buy a ring and pay guys. Any fucktard can buy a ring and train guys. Any fucktard can sign up and get trained by a fucktard and think they're a wrestler, then turn around and train other fucktards, then use the money they made by scheming guys to open up their new fed "fucktards rasslin".

Now, I'm not saying you're a fucktard, just saying that in today's day an age, just saying you are a booker/wrestler/trainer doesn't mean anything. Who were you trained by?

You're right, wrestling is psychology. It's a highly physical performance art used to draw out an emotional response from your audience. I too love long matches. It's one reason Bryan Danielson was one of my favorite guys in ROH, he had long, drawn out, smart matches.

However, WWE is every bit as much "wrestling" as that. The kid who has every piece of John Cena merchandise is every bit as much of a fan as me, a guy who almost killed himself in the ring training at the Harley race wrestling academy and has gotten up at 9am, driven 7 hours to a ROH show, stayed late to chat with the undercard and students, then driven 7 hours back home and finally to sleep at 8am the next day.

Pro wrestling started in carnivals. You had the guy who couldn't be beat, people took bets, then the "local boy" plant came up, lost, and they took everyone's money. It's been evolving ever since.

Gotch vs Hackenschmidt is every bit as much wrestling as Superstar Graham vs Bob Backund, as much as wrestling as Hogan vs Andre as much as HBK vs Hart as much as Rock vs Austin as much as Misawa vs Kawada as much as Joe vs Punk as much as Cena vs Batista.

It's all pro wrestling. It's all using a physical performance art to make money and create and emotional response. Saying Flair vs Steamboat is more "pro wrestling" than any other successful match is like saying Ty Cobb was more of a baseball player than Albert Pujols because they played the game more to your liking back then. It's all the same, just different evolutions and different varieties.

I think the guy above me said it best though. I really do feel it has to be experienced to be appreciated. My girlfriend had been humoring me and watching Raw with me. I took her to a house show, she had a blast. She said "now I get it, you can feel it. It's cool. It's not like theater or anything else."

BTW, PM me about your promotion.

AGREE with you man, wrestling just evolved, wrestling has to continue, and change with the times, if not It would have disappeared, just look at brunno sammartino who doesn't understand how the business has evolved.

Now IM A WRESTLER, as long as im in a ring doing sequences, doing promos, storylines and that, im a WRESTLER, you will not get me into today's thinking that the ENTIRE WORLD HAS TO see me in WWE or anywhere else so i can say im a wrestler, no im not trained by Harley Race I have not had that distinction and honor yet, maybe because im not responsible for being born in a different country and not having the opportunity you may have, but any way Im living my dream with MY COMPANY, RUN THE WAY I WANT with the STORYLINES I WANT, and as you said is all the same! because im not in wwe it doesn't mean im not good or am not a wrestler, i can do lots of things and by the way im more than just a wrestler, I got to see the business from the fan standpoint, as a historian, my research, i study for wrestling more than for school back in the day, I book cards, I plan all the storylines, is a more complicated sight my man. So to be a wrestler I have to be trained by Harley Race or someone like that? If you'd seen my matches you'll be surprised that without any official training and sometimes even without a ring I've done pretty well, just live men, live the dream! that's what wrestling is all about!

However appreciate your opinion! most important thing is we love wrestling and we all keep it alive!! greetings