What if WWF and Hogan never parted ways

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

I went through about 10 pages and got tired of searching so if there has been a thread on this I apologize in advance. On to my thought.

What is Hogan's relationship with the WWF was never strained and he remained with the company thorughout the years. How would you see his time in the WWF/E playing out.

Before I begin with my scenario, this imagining includes Hogan coming to grips that his career is winding down and he won't be a full time performer much longer. He comes to grips with this and realizes he has to start putting others over.

Everything happens as it had up to Hogan's spot at the end of WM IX. This would never happen and Yokozuna would walk out as the champ. Following Mania, Hogan would challenge Yoko and they would have there title match at KOTR like they originally did with Hogan winning the title this time. Now the whole bodyslamming Yoko thing would still happen (Hogan would not slam Yoko in their KOTR match) Hogan would be in it and not be able to slam Yoko, but Luger comes in and does it. This would create the All American gimmick for Luger he would tour the country as he did on his way towards SummerSlam and a title match against Hogan. Hogan would win clean and we would end SummerSlam with them shaking hands in the ring. Then for the Survivor Series, Hogan and Luger would lead the all-american team with the Stieners against the heel team. Here Luger would turn on Hogan and become heel. This would lead to a match between the two at the Rumble where Luger wins the title. After the match Luger and his heel posse attack Hogan which would explain his absense while he rests and does his acting stuff.

While Hogan is out, Bret wins the 94 Rumble and the title over Luger. Bret would hold the title up to WM XI, where he would face a returning Hogan for the title. This would be a face v face match where Bret would get a clean win over Hogan. They would have a rematch at the 1st In Your House where Hogan starts using some heel tactics to beat Bret but fails again. Then on a Raw we would get a full fledged Hogan heel turn where he attacks Bret. After this Hogan is off of television to rest but keeps the fued going as he also created some sort of heel stable featuring a few mid carders and Diesel. This culminates in this group making Hart's life miserable as where made aware that Hogan is behind this all. This leads to a SummerSlam match between Bret and Diesel where Hogan makes his physical return and helps Diesel win the title. This would set up the first title match in a survivor series style match where Diesel, Hogan and 2 other members of there stable take on Bret, Shawn and two other top faces at the time. The rules are if the heel team wins then Diesel retains the title, if the face team wins, whoever gets the winning pinfall wins the title. The heels would be rolling eliminating the non Bret or Shawm members, then Hogan would inadvertingly distract Sid which gives Shawn his shot and he eliminates Sid. Then Bret and Shawn easily eliminate the other heels so its just Bret and Shawn against Hogan. We would get some back and fourth with Bret and Shawn as they stop each other from getting the last fall. Hogan would use this to his advantage and pin Shawn. Then Hogan would eventually lose to Bret making Bret the champ once more. After this Diesel would blame Hogan for his loss and attack him turning Hogan face in the process. At the Rumble Hogan and Diesel would cost each other the victory which paves the way for Shawn to win and challenge and defeat Bret at WM XII. Hogan would go on to face Diesel at the ppv and win.

Hogan would get another break and return around SummerSlam, with Bret and Hogan away, Shawn has dominated the competition. Hogan comes back (still face) and congradulats Shawn on his reign. He reminds Shawn that he pinned him at Survivor Series and he can do it again. Shawn says he was a different wrestler then, he's on top of his game now, and Hogan can't touch him. This would set up their title match at SummerSlam. And just like Bret did at WM XI, Shawn would beat a face Hogan to retain the title. Hogan would stick around for a little bit but he would be off again before the end of 96. I would have things happen as they naturally did after this but with more chaos. This would lead the WWF to appoint someone in charge who can handle it and thus a face Hogan is named commisoner at some point in 97. This would mark the end of Hogan as a full time or somewhat full time performer. He would still get in matches against some heels trying to make a name for themselves and he would win. This would happen until WM XIV when Austin wins the title. McMahon in his attempts to get Austin off the title would get Hogan on his side making him heel again. They would try everything to screw Austin but always fail. At some point (towards the end of 98) Hogan is done with it but this pisses of Vince who orders an attack on Hogan.

This leads to a break for Hogan and sets up his return as a face post Rumble to challenge Vince at WM XV. This would be a winner takes all match as Hogan (still having some power from before) puts his stake in the company in exchange for Vince's. Hogan wins and gets full control. The next night on Raw he hands control to some face authority figure vowing to return when the time warrents. He would take a long break here. Possibly the rest of the year, and return sometime in 2000, when things are going crazy and it looks like Vince is trying to regain control. Now with The Rock as champ, Vince tries screwing him, Hogan's trying to prevent it. Leading up to the 4 way match at Mania with Hogan in Rock's corner and Vince along with Steph in Trips corner. Trips wins when Hogan joins up with Vince again. This sets up a super group with Vince, Steph and Hogan, Trips and the rest of DX. Rock would have a long road to getting to Trips where he has to go through DX and then Hogan. This would set up a match between Hogan and Rock at the 2000 SummerSlam with Rock winning on his way to regaining the belt against Trips.

This would be the last full story Hogan would be apart of as from this point on out he would be on some sort of legends contract where he shows up every once in a while for like a one time thing with a match sprinkled in maybe once a year or year in a half mostly against younger guys with the occasional match against a verteran to even the score (like Bret, Shawn, Austin, Trips or Rock).

I hope you enjoyed this and even got some ideas of your own. This is the spot to put those ideas.

 

[HBKperfect23]

This is just too hard to imagine. I think Hogan leaving was the best for both sides. The business was changing, it was Brets time to be the top face. In ring performance was so more important at this time, especially after Luger didnt pan out. I honestly see him getting lost in the shuffle in the WWF. I know that is extremely hard to beleive but Vince wanted a new generation of wrestlers at this point.

 

[Cabana]

Before I begin with my scenario, this imagining includes Hogan coming to grips that his career is winding down and he won't be a full time performer much longer. He comes to grips with this and realizes he has to start putting others over.

Here's my problem: Hogan had a decade of mega draw status left in his tank at that point. Granted, that was derived from a) his nWo heel turn and b) Hulkastolgia in '02-03, but he still had that much gas in his tank.

----

Accepting your premise, it's a pretty cool storyline but honestly, I don't think the Hogan turn works if only because I think it necessarily had to be a go-big moment. This Hogan heel turn feels... distinctly like a WWF Hogan move. It's not the big, crazy, Hollywood Hogan that revitalized the business. Frankly, I don't see that working in the context of mid-90's WWF. It would have been cool to see Hogan faring against/with the Attitude Era, though.

 

[ns530]

It's cool to wonder "what if", but if that really did happen it may have killed the business. IF Hogan stayed, Bret wouldn't have become a star. Once Hogan came back, they immediately took the title off of Hart, let Yoko hold it for 20 seconds, and immediately give it back to Hogan. Think about that.

To suggest that Vince "wanted a new generation" of stars is ridiculous. They always wanted to keep Hogan. But he wanted to pursue the acting/etc...ALSO, think about what they did when Hogan returned at WM18, they KILLED HHH return by making him drop the title to Hogan the very next PPV.

It was a novel post, but the reality is - if Hogan stayed, Diesel, Hart, HBK don't become bigtime.

 

[HBKperfect23]

To suggest that Vince "wanted a new generation" of stars is ridiculous. They always wanted to keep Hogan. But he wanted to pursue the acting/etc...ALSO, think about what they did when Hogan returned at WM18, they KILLED HHH return by making him drop the title to Hogan the very next PPV.

It was a novel post, but the reality is - if Hogan stayed, Diesel, Hart, HBK don't become bigtime.

Ask Savage if Vince wanted a New Generation.....The 2nd or 3rd biggest face of the Rock-n-wrestling era (who could still go) couldnt get ring time in the WWF.

Bret and HBK would have only been held back for so long. These are the guys everyone wanted to see at this time. I do see Hogan staying effecting Luger and Desil (as a face).

Now if Hogan turned heel in 93/94 (highly unlikely) I could see that working.

 

[Killercam]

I like the OP and all the scenarios he came up with. However if Hogan would have stayed and assuming Austins rise was still meant to be then it would have been most effective to make his first heel turn in late 97 or early 98 to join Vince and go against Austin, essentially taking Michaels place in that feud. If he would have stayed I think it's pretty safe to say HBK would have gotten the shaft for numerous pushes at Hogans dispense.

 

[GrandSword]

Just a side note to this topic... Eric Bischoff in his book noted that certain characters just wouldn't have worked in different companies. This has been his defence as to how he feels about releasing Steve Austin from his WCW contract. I in some ways agree with this and believe that Austin's Stone Cold character just wouldn't have had the impact it did in WCW as there really wasn't a Vince McMahon to play off. Vince McMahon seems to think the same as he has often said that WCW "wouldn't know what to do with A Bret Hart".

So in saying (moving back on topic) that I think the Hulk Hogan heel turn or him taking over pro-wrestling for a second time could only have been achieved by the move to WCW. If the heel turn happened in WWF, I don't think it would have worked. If anyone watched WCW in 1999, they attempted to turn Sting heel and the fans just wouldn't buy it, and it flopped. Same for Stone Cold's heel turn in 2001. It flopped because no one wanted to boo Austin. And even can be said on Hulk's return. He ran the Rock over with a truck and yet at WM the crowd went batshit crazy for him...


If Hogan was to have stayed in the WWF his type of wrestling (cartoonish Hulk-ups superman comebacks) were a thing of the past, as a more legitmate era was being promoted and I'm not sure how Hogan would have fitted into the show. I guess maybe in a few years we will see how Vince's handles John Cena and that could eb an indication of how Hogan may have been booked if he had stayed.

Cena has been on top for almost a decade now and shows no signs of letting anyone else hold the reigns. He is still a young guy so he has another decade at least in him but will we see him be phased out much like Hogan and Macho were? It will indeed be very interesting.

 

[jpickens]

WCW would've gained allot of talent due to guys getting buried or not receiving fair pushes.

 

[Wald]

Honestly if Hogan had stayed I think a few things would have happened, including a Hogan vs Luger feud in pretty much the same manner as you describe at Summerslam. But I think what's more interesting to wonder about is the changing faces of both WCW and WWF, rather than Hogan's career itself.

However I also feel that the WWF would have lost Bret Hart to WCW in 1993 (I believe Bret signed a 3 year deal in 1993, might be mistaken) and Shawn when his contract came up around 1994/95. Since the nWo was, by quite a few accounts, a hybrid of Bischoff and Hall's creative minds we have to believe that that would have happened, most likely with HBK, Hall and Nash. I still believe that Diesel would have gotten a push, maybe even the title, but not as a face. I think Nash worked better as a heel so he would have been just as hot coming over from WWF to WCW so the nWo angle would still have worked a treat. As for Bret, he probably feuds with Flair over the WCW Title and gets it two or maybe three times, but Bret just isn't a WCW guy so I could see him making his way back to WWF in 1996 or 1997. Factor in that Hogan brought Macho into WCW and you see how things could have been very different.

I still do see Taker and Mankind going the same direction they went, and the Rock still gets himself over as a mid-carder in the Nation, whilst Austin and Bret would still have had their feud as Bret handpicked Austin anyway. So I assume Austin still gets majorly over, although there is still that glass ceiling so maybe not as much as he would have.

Think of that for a changed landscape for a moment, instead of what we had you'd now have in 1997-99

WCW consisting of HBK, Nash, Hall, Flair, Sting, Goldberg, DDP and Steiner
vs
WWF consisting of Hogan, Macho, Bret, Undertaker, Mankind, Austin and the Rock

with two wild cards in the pack, Psycho Sid (who I see feuding with Hogan in the WWF still) and HHH. Triple H is particular is interesting as anything could have happened with that guy. One hand he's talented and intelligent, so you think he probably would have gotten over somehow, on the other hand everyone needs a lucky break at some stage, his came with hitching his horse to HBK's bandwagon, no HBK means no bandwagon and possibly no Triple H. That leads to another question, to assume that the Hunter Hearst Helmsley character would have been stuck in mid-card and possibly released at some stage means that he might have wound up back at WCW, where he could have become friends with the Kliq anyway and ended up as Triple H in the nWo.

Sorry for rambling, with any form of history I love theories of parallel universes

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

I like the OP and all the scenarios he came up with. However if Hogan would have stayed and assuming Austins rise was still meant to be then it would have been most effective to make his first heel turn in late 97 or early 98 to join Vince and go against Austin, essentially taking Michaels place in that feud. If he would have stayed I think it's pretty safe to say HBK would have gotten the shaft for numerous pushes at Hogans dispense.

Maybe the Hogan heel turn would work out better if done to put Austin over at WM XIV as you suggested. But I do believe that with my story playing out that by the summer of 95, the WWF and wrestling in general would have been ready for the Hogan heel turn. Even though this is not even considered an unofficial start of the attitude era, it was clear that times were changing and so was wrestling. Hell, I just watched the 93 Rumble match between Hart and Razor and you could see a change in wrestling by that match too. Hart the babyface was using heel tactics.

Another aspect of my story I like is that everytime Hogan would return, I could imagine the crowd being on the edge waiting to see what Hogan they get. I think it would make for some good moments .

 

[The Fabulous Rougeau's]

Just noticed, re-reading my story that at the Survivor Series part, everytime I meant to say Diesel I wrote Sid. That's my bad. So everywhere it says Sid, its supposed to be Diesel.

 

[HBsam31]

I really liked the scenario that the OP suggested, but there are so many factors in this that make it impossible to even speculate. I agree with some of the others that said a Hogan heel turn in WWE would not have worked. I think all the chips fell into place the way they did for a reason, and if it would have happened any other way it would have never have been as interesting as it was.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Vince was an innovator in the 80s. Everythinbg he has done since then has been reactionary. This is importany because if Hogan stays in WWE very little in WWE changes during the decade. Hogan, even growing stale, was a guaranteed money maker and he was Vince's guy, Vince lets Hogan domiante the title scene throughthe decade becuase he knows its guaranteed money, maybe not what it used to be in the 80s but bigger than Brett Hart.

Hart really only got his shot at a top spot because of a chain of events (Hogan & Piper forced out in steroid scandal, Savage wants off the road and takes time off due to divorce, Flair injured, Warrior fired). Even with Hogan gone WWE in September of 92 (with Savage wanting time off) start building a Flair-Ultimate Warrior fued which likely would have cluminated with Warrior, a proven star and former champion, getting the belt at Surivor Series. When Warrior carelessly injured Flair and had his contract dispute with McMahon, that was his last straw, he was fired. Flair couldnt wrestle though and Vince chose Brett basically as the only credible guy he had left (Taker was still new, Hall had just arrived after a lackluster WCW run and inconsistent AWA tenure, HBK was not a main eventer). Now I think Hart worked his @#$ off as champ. Wrestling, like sports & movies is full of stories about guys being in the right place at the right time. Brett benefitted no doubt from the whole strange turn of events but if Hogan comes back shortly after there is little doubt in my mind Vince puts the belt on him. If it aint broke, dont fix it.

In WCW, they were already seeing a spike in ratings and interest after Flair returned and beat Vader at Starrcade 93. Still, without Hogan, Im not sure the Monday Night Wars really get started. Yes, Hogan Pre NWO in WCW was lackluster, he drew big money vs Flair but struggled against everyone else. He was booed a lot too. However, Hogan had two things working against him in his WCW arrival. Yes, his character was stale and aimed at kids while WCW was a more lature audience, holdovers from the days of Crockett Promotions and those bloody Steel Cage Matches, IQuit and Barbed Wire Matches, baseball bat parking lot beatdowns, violent locker room invasions, Hogan's character wasnt really ready for that theatre. Also, he was from a rival promotion, in WCW Flair was the favorite son and was more cheered by the audience, and audience that had favored him for years, an older audience that respected his dedication and work ethic, especially in comparison to Hogan's. Those factors would not have been present if Hogan stayed in WWE, another reason I think he gets the belt back and dominates the main event scene. However, Hogan was an established star that added credibility to WCW, making the pitch for a prime time weekly TV show more appealing. Ted Turner was still in charge of Turner Broadcasting and supported the wrestling company so maybe they get Nitro without Hogan. Maybe not.

Im not sure Randy Savage makes the WCW jump. His on again, off again, relationship with Hogan supposedly was OK in 95 but story has it that Flair, not Hogan, recruited Savage to jump ship. I think having both Hogan & Flair in place made the jump a lot more appealing to Savage. Does Savage jump if only one of the 80's Big 2 is already there ?

Another thing about Vince being reactionary is the whole start of The Attitude Era. Vince didnt see a need for major diectional shift to more adult content in his programming, he saw his competition (WCW) eclispsing him in ratings, attendance, and revenue because they were successfully running an edgier, more controversial, mature program vs his whole kid freindly Disney like production. Make no mistake, New Generation only started because Vince didnt have any top stars to build around but it was founded on the same grade school friendly mentality as his Rock & Wrestling era promotion in the 80s. This is important because the NWO angle is really what pushed WCW not just ahead but way ahead of WWE. Much of that angle's success came from Hogan's involvement. Without Hogan, all the other makings are still there for a great storyline and in fact wrestling fans were interested in the angle even before Hogan joined, there is no doubt that Hogan's subsequent heel turn, the biggest swerve in either company the entire decade, was the catalyst for the whole Invasion story catching fire like it did. WIthout Hogan, I think WCW still does well in competition but I dont think they blow WWE out of the water. Rememer, pre NWO The Monday Night Wars were pretty even except WCW consistently scored well with their main events against RAW, relying heavily on Flair, Sting, Luger, Hogan, Savage. Even without Hogan (who was not champ in the early MN Wars run, Flair dominated the title then) I think WCW still does well here. Likelwise with the same lack of new stars WWE has simiair problems like it had with Hart, great champ, not great competition. Hogan though could draw in WWE against lesser foes where Hart did not (and where Hogan could not in WCW pre NWO). Ultimately I dont think you get the major, complete 180 turn that was Vince abandoning 18 years of promotional style for the Attitude Era if Hogan stays in WWE because I think they make enough money and WCW doesnt completely overtake them, ince doesnt have to make wholesale changes in style and content.

Now, if Hogan stays I do think HBK does not become as big. Vince always favored bigger wrestlers, especially with Hogan on top of the card, and only occassionally placed guys who were really good in ring performers against Hogan, instead protecting him but keeping him matched up against large guys with limited skill sets. I know that Flair & Savage were not monsters size wise but both were significantly bigger than Michaels, even Hart has twenty plus pounds on him. No doubt HBK was a great entertainer, I think he had enough charisma to "break through" the glass ceiling so to speak but I dont see him winning the World Title at WresltleMania if Hogan is around.

Likewise I dont see any Stone Cold Steve Austin. Part of Austin's problem in WCW was his outspoken nature and willingness to speak up about booking decissions and storylines he did not like, even those involving Hogan. That more than his injuries made him expendable as stories have indicated over the years. With no Hogan in WCW however the balance of power likely would have been more equal and Austin would have been a happier camper. He also would have been more valuable because they didnt have Hogan, one less star always makes the other stars more valuable. Brett Hart also probably doesnt leave because Vince would not have signed him to that ridiculously high contract extension, done originally to keep one of the few stars they had in tow when the company was getting beaten bad by WCW. Hart likely doesnt dominate the main event scene but likley does well for himself and stays in WWE.

By 1999 I think WCW and WWE are fairly even, the NWO Invasion is popular but not as much a game changer without Hogan, both companies are doing well but the industry does not enjoy the huge boom period it had in the mid to late 90s. There is no Attitude Era, no Stone Cold, No Showstopper, no once and for all Flair-Hogan feud (unless Vince convinces Flair to jump ship in an effort to swing the tide his way, do I think it would have happened, Im 50/50 on it, especially since Flair had a reduced travel schedule and more dates closer to home in WCW)

The even bigger questoin becomes what happens to WWE post 2000 with Hogan clearly on his last legs as performer, who was elevated during this time if there was no Attitude Era ? Very interesting

 

[FlairFan2003]

I really liked the scenario that the OP suggested, but there are so many factors in this that make it impossible to even speculate. I agree with some of the others that said a Hogan heel turn in WWE would not have worked. I think all the chips fell into place the way they did for a reason, and if it would have happened any other way it would have never have been as interesting as it was.

If done similair to what WCW did then I think a Hogan heel turn would have worked in WWE. Favorite son or not, fans did boo Hogan pretty bad at the 92 Royal Rumble when he distracted Sid at the end of the match. WWE wrongly thought fans would side with Hogan, that Sid betrayed him by sneaking up and eliminating him from the match. Instead, fans booed Hogan, believeing his behavior was wrong - remember, it was an every man for itself battle royal and the last two men in the ring with Sid were the 6"8 Hogan who only wrestle for about 10 minutes and 6"2, 245lb Flair who had been in there for over an hour, who would you eliminate first if you had the chance ?

That was the only time before he came to WCW that I can remember HulkMania Hulk Hogan being booed but it did happen. Im not sure Vince would have had the mad genius to pull the thrigger but it could have been done and worked.