What if Nash and Hall never left the WWF?

[Disturbed]

The title is self-explanatory. What if Razor Ramon and Big Daddy Cool Diesel never left WWF in 1996 and went to WCW?

Razor Ramon began his WWF career in 1992. He was filled with so much potential and everyone knew he had the charisma and the in-ring skills to become a top star in the biggest wrestling career in the world. He was given a latino character to imitate, Tony Montana from the movie Scarface. Razor Ramon went on to become a four time Intercontinental champion. He competed in the first ever televised ladder match, at Wrestlemania 10 that won him the, match of the year award from PWI. He also won the most improved wrestler award from PWI in the year of, 1992. PWI ranked him at number seven in the top 500 wrestlers of 1994. He had a good career in WWF before leaving the company in 1996, to work for Ted Turner and WCW.

Scott Hall debuted in WCW on, May 27, 1996. He came from out of the crowd and jumped the guard rail. He told the whole world that they didn't know why he was there but they would find out at the right time. Later on in the show he appeared, confronting Eric Bischoff, telling him to tell Turner, to get his top three guys ready. In the next couple of weeks, Kevin Nash joined him and they vowed a takeover. Everyone thought WWF was invading. At Bash at the Beach 96, Hulk Hogan joined them and formed the NWO. There were many storylines with the NWO and I don't feel like explaining them but the NWO was all over with for good, in the year of 2000. While in WCW, Scott Hall won the tag titles seven times, the television title once and the United States championship twice. Hall then left WCW and worked for ECW for a short time.

Scott Hall returned to the WWFas it was now knows as the WWE. He worked for them a short time and re-united the NWO. He took on Stone Cold Steve Austin at Wrestlemania 18 in a losing effort. He was released shortly after because he had a lot of heat backstage. The rest of the Scott Hall story is history as it all went down hill from there. He worked the indy scene, and worked for TNA multiple times. Scott Hall never won a World title in a major company.


Up next is Big Daddy Cool Diesel, Kevin Nash.

Nash began his career in WWF in 1993. He worked for various promotions before WWF as did Scott Hall. Diesel became the body guard of the Heart Break Kid, Shawn Michaels. He teamed with Shawn and continued playing the body guard role until, Survivor Series 94, when he turned Face. At WrestleMania 11, he defeated SHawn Michaels in the main event for the WWF Championship. Diesel accomplished a lot in WWF, as he won the WWF Championship once, the tag titles twice, and the Intercontinental once. Diesel won the most improved wrestler of 1994 by the PWI. He also won match of the year in 95 when he took on Michaels at Wrestlemania. That same year he won wrestler of the year.

In 96, Nash left for WCW too and debuted with Scott Hall. Nash became a big part in the NWO storyline and once again, I will not explain it all. Nash was a WCW world champion 5 times and a tag champion 9 times. He later became the head booker but failed miserably. WCW was bought by the WWF in 2001. Nash won the tag team of the year award from PWI, alongside with his partner Scott Hall in 1997.

He re-debuted in the WWF re-forming the NWO with Hall, and Hogan. He stayed in the WWF until 04 where he had many feuds with, Steve Austin, The Rock, Chris Jericho, and Triple H. WWE and Kevin Nash didn't agree on another contract when it expired in January of 04.

Nash joined TNA wrestling later that year and was very successful in TNA, as he stayed there for six years. Kevin Nash had many great feuds in TNA with, Jeff Jarrett, CHristian, Sting, Samoa Joe, Matt Morgan, AJ Styles, and many more. Nash won the TNA Legends championship twice and the TNA world tag team titles once.

Everyone thought Nash was going to sign a new contract with TNA in 2011 but instead joined the WWE and signed a Legends contract. He made a return as a suprise entry into the Royal Rumble. Nash can now be in WWE DVS and get his own action figure.


If Scott Hall never left WWF in 96 for WCW, would he have won a World Title

How long would he have stayed in WWF before he left or retired?

Would Hall have been more successful if he stayed with WWF?


If Kevin Nash never left WWF in 96 to work for Turner, would he have won any more World Titles?

How long would he have stayed before he left or retired?

Would Nash have been more successful if he had stayed with WWF?

 

[THTRobtaylor]

No, Scott wouldn't have... he would have stayed the IC level, a perrenial challenger to, but never attaining the World Championship. The reality of his WWE run past 1994 was Kliq based laziness... he would only work with Kliq approved people and that would have hurt him long term.

Nash had run his course, the heel turn when he lost the belt failed in a big way and he was damaged as a character. he might have got a reign more but he was damaged goods...

In reality if they hadn't jumped Shawn would have first...sad but true...

 

[EStreet]

No, Scott wouldn't have... he would have stayed the IC level, a perrenial challenger to, but never attaining the World Championship. The reality of his WWE run past 1994 was Kliq based laziness... he would only work with Kliq approved people and that would have hurt him long term.
\

interesting you say that, considering HBK and HHH pretty much control the backstage politics of recent years. If Hall would have stayed with WWF/E he would have likely stayed clean longer with the influence of the Kliq.

Nash would have been a a big man feuding with Undertakers and Kanes and likely have gone back and forth between heel and face.

Both benefited tons from jumping shit for the simple reason that they were the guys next to Hogan when the biggest turn in Wrestling happened. They fueled the Monday Night Wars and have been able to stay relevant since. Without the jump, the would have been lost in the shuffle of Rock/Austing/HHH/Taker/HBK/Angle. Instead they were part of the elite w/ WCW

 

[THE SWAG]

look at it this way if they would have never left, the monday night wars would have never started, the NWO would have never formed, wrestling would have been boring as hell, but then again they could have had some pretty good feuds with stone cold and the rock, that would have been great. but i love the fact that they left, they became real big stars after they left

 

[safeco1999]

I really wish you'd make your post and get to the point. I think we all know when and where Hall and Nash started.

Would Nash have won more belts? Of course he would have. But over the last 15 years, they probably would've undergone a makeover of sorts, like Undertaker. I'm sure Diesel and Razor as gimmicks would not really exist up to today, as it would've gotten stale.

Nash was quite over with WWF in 1995, as was Hall. Leaving WWF for WCW had their popularity explode and they were etched in wrestling lore at a completely different stratosphere (with the nWo angle).

Would Hall have won a WWE title? Sure, why not... practically everyone has won it since the Attitude (Title Belt Depreciating) Era began.

 

[safeco1999]

No, Scott wouldn't have... he would have stayed the IC level, a perrenial challenger to, but never attaining the World Championship. The reality of his WWE run past 1994 was Kliq based laziness... he would only work with Kliq approved people and that would have hurt him long term.

Nash had run his course, the heel turn when he lost the belt failed in a big way and he was damaged as a character. he might have got a reign more but he was damaged goods...

In reality if they hadn't jumped Shawn would have first...sad but true...

Nash had run his course? Are you kidding? He was still popular with his heel turn. He still had people cheering. If he weren't so over, people wouldn't care that he jumped ship.

I like how you're just so sure that Razor/Scott Hall would've stayed at the IC level forever. Guys like Jericho, Guerrero, JBL, J Hardy all held the WWE belt, and they would seem like guys who would always be IC level guys.. but they were elevated, so I'd have to disagree with your statement about Hall.

 

[daddyJ_t]

ok op, first i want to correct you on something. kevin nash never beat shawn micheals for the title, let alone at wm. he destroyed bob backlund for the title in 8 seconds. other then that, they were great how they went, nwo did nothing but raise their stock in wrestling and frankly scott hall jus blah, he might have won a world title if he wouldve stayed, but been a transitional champ at best probably getting screwed out of the title by micheals or lost it in a ladder match to the same micheals

 

[metans]

OK, please bear with me here- I've got about a million points here and I have tried not to ramble on too much!

Firstly, daddyJ_t has it half right, Diesel won the title originally from Bob Backlund in 1994, but he DID beat Michaels at Wrestlemania XI but it was a title DEFENCE, not a win.

But on to my main points. It is interesting that the general concensus is that had Hall and Nash not left to join WCW then the Monday Night Wars wouldn't have started. Technically they started in 1995 when WCW debuted Monday Nitro- even the name was designed to fire a shot at the WW(F) but the main point is, no Nash and Hall = no nWo, at least not as we knew it.

And of course no nWo would probably mean no D-Generation X and the stable-based "gang warfare" storylines of 1997-2000 probably wouldn't have started up either. Remember the Disciples of Apocalypse, Los Boricuas, Nation of Domination, Union, DX, The Ministry, etc.

The biggest knock-on effect it would have had was on developing younger talent. If Hall and Nash didn't jump it is likely that they would have pushed on as part of the "New Generation" with Bret Hart, HBK and Undertaker at the helm. But without the gaps in the Intercontinental & World title streams these two left, and without the WW(F) really having to push hard to compete with WCW, you have to wonder would people like Stone Cold, Mankind, The Rock and Triple H have gotten their shot? OK, they would have eventually- the evidence points to Stone Cold somewhat making his own future with his legendary "Austin 3:16" speech at King of the Ring 1996, Rock and Triple H were undoubtedly extremely talented and Mick Foley worked his ass off for the fans in every match he competed in.

But with Diesel still a main event player, and WCW not as enticing to Bret Hart come Survivor Series '97, these 4 could have struggled. As could wrestling in general - the Monday Night Wars and subsequent "Attitude Era" are generally credited with saving the popularity of wrestling in the mid-90's. If the WW(F) had stayed gimmick-oriented as it was between (approx)1992-1996, with evil trashmen, repo men, and tax collectors doing battle with viking warriors, obese harlem rapper caricatures and greenwich blue-bloods, then there is a good chance that by the turn of the century people would just have grown bored with it.



So to summarise, had Hall and Nash not left for WCW in 1996 then I think Diesel would almost certainly have won at least another World title, but Razor Ramon would probably have stayed a challenger to the IC title like Owen Hart always seemed to be . If he could have kept himself clean however then I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a (brief) stint as WW(F) Champ.

As for being more successful in the WW(F), I think Nash wouldn't have the opportunities he did in WCW - I am surprised he won 5 WCW titles, but then that was WCW's disease, relying too heavily on already-established names. I reckon he would have been big until 1999-2000, by which time people like the Rock, Triple H, Austin and Mankind would be just starting (belatedly by real-world standards) to take over from Bret (who never jumped ship in 1997 either), Diesel, HBK (who for sake of argument stayed with his "cliq" in the federation and didn't get injured at the 1998 Rumble) and the Undertaker.

Razor Ramon would probably have enjoyed greater success if he had stayed than his partner would have- as I said he could have been WW(F) champion at least for a short period instead of being used mainly in the tag division by WCW. And he would have increased his record of IC titles held, by at least another 4 or 5 as he battled the new blood (from Owen, Bulldog, and Faarooq, right through people like HHH and Rock, to maybe even the Hardy Boyz, Edge & Christian and The Radicalz) He would potentially have to have changed his gimmick, the Cuban Greaseball may not have gone down too well if the Attitude Era had ever managed to come into being.

It is hard to say how long they would stay on for- I think Ramon's shelf life would be longer than Diesel's as he could have stayed in the IC stream and pushed up the younger guys. But if we assume that the nWo, The Monday Night Wars and the Attitude era (and with it the surge in popularity that "saved" wrestling in the mid-late 1990's) didn't happen, then perhaps nobody would have had much of a career by the year 2000, at least not on a national, televised scale like we saw over a decade ago.

 

[RicSpade]

To be completely honest the reason Nash got over so well in Vince's eyes was because at that time he liked Big men and thats why he received the wwf title, I mean think about it HBK was a much better wrestler, but Nash got the big one first. Then you have Scott Hall who was a much better wrestler than Nash but like an RVD or maybe a Christian politics I think held him from never getting the title, but being used to make other champions look good.

In WCW I think the fact Nash knows how to play politics in the back and the fact that Hogan was the main heel after starting out that was two negatives against Hall. After the break up of the original three and the Wolfpac started Hall was lost in the shuffle, his drinking problems got worse and were overly exploited on camera and well you know the story.

So here is where I believe the problem lies, when Hall came out solo to start things off I think Hall should've went for the belt before the formation of the NWO because then you could've had Nash come in and help win the world title, and then when the NWO officially came to life then say something along the lines of "I am better than this organization and these boys in the back and I don't need this belt," throw it in the trash and give Hogan the NWO belt as being the biggest icon in wrestling.

As far as should they have never left WWF? No they came much bigger stars in WCW being themselves, but on that same token I think like a Miss Elizabeth Hall would've had more people watching out for Hall besides Nash and maybe he wouldn't have such a bad past and maybe could've main evented again and became WWF champ...

 

[Tastycles]

It depends what you are asking here, are you asking what would have happened if specifically those two didn't leave, or if the WCW hadn't had a poaching policy. If it is the former, then WCW would have just taken someone else from the New Generation, possibly Michaels or Triple H, and everything else would have been similar. The history of wrestling would have had pretty much the same script, only the actors would have changed. People turned off the WWE because it had a lack of big drawing stars, and I don't think Nash, and certainly not Hall, would have made a difference.

If WCW had a different policy, then there's a slightly different matter, they needed someone coming in for the nWo storyline so the chances are that they wouldn't have gone that way, and wouldn't have become so dominant. People talking about the Monday Night Wars not happening though, are wrong. Nitro had beaten Raw 17 times before Hall debuted, and Raw had won the ratings 16 times. The war was well and truly being fought. However, after Hall debuted Raw won one week until Tyson showed up in 1998.

So, Nitro probably wouldn't have bossed Raw, but the two companies would have continued in the vain they were in in 1996, exchanging ratings wins with each other until one of them went edgy. The way culture was in the late 90s meant that paradigm shift was inevitable within wrestling, and the early part of the Monday Night Wars would have been defined by who made it first.

 

[tjfjr4488]

if they wouldnt have jumped ship wrestling wouldnt have been what it was in the 90's. To answer the wuestions if hall stayed in wwe n not jumped shit he would have been clean n had a rly good career and he would deff had a couple world title runs. he was over with the crowd really well and he knew how to use the mic

Nash prob jumping was the best thing. he might have gotten a few title runs but i dont think he would be as successful as he ahs been

 

[barclayteo]

for nash i think he would he have done better in the wwe long term even if he went mid card level cause when they left and wcw folded you know how vince was with the wcw people he made them all look like fools even nash and hall all of their past wwe greatness ment nothing compared to vkm satisfying his own ego. then if they would have stayed rather than leave the would have had a better career. but as for hall it all would have depended if he hadnt got into drugs and booze.