What if Invasion was handled like the NXT Raw takeover?

[Icedawg316]

[YOUTUBE]MABaC8hYq9c[/YOUTUBE]

Everyone is very familiar with this Raw takeover which I thought was extremely well done. Now correct me if this has been discussed before, but whenever I watch this clip I can't but help feel like this is exactly how the WCW invasion should have began in 2001. Imagine possibly after Mania, Shane walking down the ramp..Booker T, DDP, Awesome, Kanyon, O'Haire and Polumbo (I'm going by the guys that WWF had at the time of this angle) jump the guardrail and attack Austin or Rock or Vince or whomever was in the ring during this time. Of course if I could rewind time I'd certainly choose Goldberg, Scott Steiner, still have Booker/DDP, Hall and Nash come down ect.

To me, it certainly would have made WCW a legit threat to the WWF and could have really started something much different than what it actually turned out to be. Now I know this would probably have never happened since Vince didn't want his guys looking weak compared to the competition, but if you had your say how would you have made this gone down?

 

[blackmetalbuick]

Yeah, it certainly would have made a bit more sense if the WCW guys came in pissed off and ready to cause chaos. They should have done what Nexus did times ten. And yeah it would have been nice to actually have some of the top tier WCW guys instead of mid card.

It would have been so great for wrestling fans everywhere to see this war, but instead everyone in the business was thinking about themselves. Vince didn't want to make WCW look good, certain WCW guys didn't want to come over because they'd be squashed, etc etc. Really a missed opportunity. I wonder where pro wrestling might be today if the InVasion had been an epic war instead of WCW fizzling out and producing a few new WWE stars and now the PG era with no competition.

 

[beefthelegend]

Really...I think this, coupled with stars like Goldberg, and the NWO not holding out, would have made the Invasion Epic.

As it is, I think it was handled about as well as could be. I mean their "Top talent" was Booker T, DDP, and Buff Bagwell. DDP was the only actual main eventer in that group. Had Goldberg and the NWO came over, then i believe that the WCW guys wouldn't be squashed, and wouldn't have required Steve Austin and ECW to get over.

I think that they could have used the guerrilla tactics that WCW and the nWo made famous on Nitro, and that years later the Nexus would mimmick, and it would have been more successful, yes.

However, I think it may have diminished the impact of ECW in the invasion. As it is, i think ECW was the best part of the Invasion...pre-joining up with WCW. When it was faction vs. Faction vs. Faction it was ECW that looked the best IMO.

So positives and negatives.

I believe it would have been a completely different animal.

 

[Davi323]

If the Invasion had been handled like this, it would have been a lot longer lasting, that is for sure. The Invasion will probably be recognized as one of the biggest missed opportunities Vince McMahon ever had. Nexus is a bunch of nobodys, who even in official WWE programming, are green as hell. The entire concept of Nexus, that they were rookies who decided to take what they felt was theirs, is working. Even given the premise that they are inexperienced (in WWE terms, which is different than being inexperienced in general) they are still highly effective. Now, if you could do that same thing with a bunch of established guys from the rival company that up until recently was owning your ass in TV ratings, it could have been absolutely gold. If we can buy it with rookies, we would certainly buy it with the WCW guys. Especially if you could get one of those ex-WCW guys who jumped ship earlier to be forced to join in, leaving fans to wonder if they really object to being with the group, or if its going to be revealed that they are the hidden leader who orchestrated the whole thing, to have a massive heel turn. Nobody would know who to trust...that could have been great.

 

[Dum Dum Dudley]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't that how it kinda did begin? Yeah, Shane bought WCW before WM X7 but it was Booker T jumping the guardrail at KOTR '01 during the world title match that began to signal an invasion.

On topic, I don't think the build was what went wrong; it was the personnel. To even imagine a WCW stable without names like Sting, Goldberg, Steiner, Nash and Mysterio is remarkable. Sure, Mysterio wasn't the biggest star in WCW but with the Alliance built up of ECW stars, Mysterio would have had a large role in the group as he is a bridge between the two factions.

Also, The Nexus invasion was sonbrutal because they had to solidify them as a threat and not just a bunch of rookies. Even the most casual wrestling fan at the time was aware of what WCW was and who their talent was so I don't think doing what Nexus did would have made any significant difference to the angle.

 

[ilapierre]

If the Invasion was handled like the NXT takeover then..ratings would be 2.9 instead of the 5 or 6 they were a decade ago. The Invasion would have worked so much better in an era of crappy PG and diehard smarks. The past half decade has made wrestling fans desperate..they'll love anything that even resembles a crumb of what they were fed in the past. So some fans now think the NXT takeover has been done well. Compared to the Invasion angle which was awful, yes that would be correct. But the NXT angle is plain stupid, the guys are bland, no charisma, no personality. A bunch of no name developmental loser rookies who feel like they are being held down after a year in the business. Not an entire year. Boohoo. Held down in a multi-billion dollar organization missing all its top stars, held down in an organization where similarly green guys like Sheamus and the Miz are at the top of the ladder. Held down on a show with about 8 watchable stars and none of them are one of the 8. The only competition this group really has is with itself, who is going to be the most entertaining of a group of uninteresting nobodies? None of them is going to be the next superstar. These guys are like the Tough Enough losers. The best NXT guy will be as good as Maven. They have no credibility, sorry, all they are is an updated version of the cheerleader Spirit Squad. They are far from being as entertaining as what's going on down South and a billion times more pathetic than the NWO. The worst and saddest part is the whole 'takeover' is green and scripted looking. It's as painful to watch as the Invasion angle. But for different reasons. A bunch of guys trying to remember their lines, trying to emote real anger and coming across phony and robotic. These guys wouldn't know how to carry out a revolution because they're all bad entertainers. And how are these goofballs suppose to even come close to looking credible with no big name stars around besides a washed up Bret Hart, an overexposed John Cena, and the stale gimmick of Randy Orton.

So i guess the answer to this is...if fans in 2001 had of waited for 5 years for something noteworthy to happen in an era of PG and then the Invasion took place it is possible that the 4 million households still watching would find it unbelievably entertaining. Just like those fans find the NXT angle. As most of these fans are WWE diehards that hate WCW or anything that isn't WWE and would tune in to watch it be killed by WWE. But only a desperate WWE smark would think this NXT angle is being done properly, let alone entertaining.

 

[theiceman]

Yeah actually, the WCW/ECW Invasion was handled almost exactly like the NXT take over was. The difference was that WCW/ECW didn't get over with the crowd when they did it.

People got their hopes up and expected Goldberg, Sting, Hall, Nash, Hogan, Jarrett, Steiner, Savage, and all them. When the fans didn't get them, it didn't matter what the Alliance did, it just wasn't getting over. That's why Austin and other WWF guys jumped ship, to try to level out the playing field.

Guys coming in to ambush WWF superstars, interfering in matches, all of the stuff that Nexus has done are exactly what the WCW/ECW alliance did. Fans didn't really give it much of a chance though, they were disappointed in the lack of main event wcw stars a.k.a. old WWF superstars brought in so they wrote it off.

 

[eljay7i]

Yeah actually, the WCW/ECW Invasion was handled almost exactly like the NXT take over was. The difference was that WCW/ECW didn't get over with the crowd when they did it.

People got their hopes up and expected Goldberg, Sting, Hall, Nash, Hogan, Jarrett, Steiner, Savage, and all them. When the fans didn't get them, it didn't matter what the Alliance did, it just wasn't getting over. That's why Austin and other WWF guys jumped ship, to try to level out the playing field.

Guys coming in to ambush WWF superstars, interfering in matches, all of the stuff that Nexus has done are exactly what the WCW/ECW alliance did. Fans didn't really give it much of a chance though, they were disappointed in the lack of main event wcw stars a.k.a. old WWF superstars brought in so they wrote it off.

I co-sign that. Even if it was handled like NExus, ppl wanted to see certain Big Name WCW stars so it wouldn't of make much of a difference. Nexus did that disaster cause they wanted to make a name for themselves.

 

[Icedawg316]

There was some minuscule things WWF had the WCW guys do, it was great seeing Booker T put Austin through a table but it just wasn't big enough. Mike Awesome I believe attacked someone backstage too didn't he? That was not bad, but seeing all of WCW come down and kick ass & tear people apart would have been much better. It would have established some of the lesser WCW guys too at the same time.

Vince didn't want to pay the money to get some of the guys out of their Time Warner Contracts, but why he was so stingy when he could have made so much more money with dream matches? I'll never know

 

[theiceman]

That was not bad, but seeing all of WCW come down and kick ass & tear people apart would have been much better. It would have established some of the lesser WCW guys too at the same time.

That actually did happen. Unless i'm imagining things. WCW had the beatdowns, they were brought in as a matter of fact with the goal of being it's own seperate entity but it just didn't get over. They tried to create the rivalry by doing the exact same things that the Nexus did. It wasn't an issue of what they had the guys do, it was just that they didn't have the top stars of WCW.

When the WWF purchased WCW, the fans were optimistic expecting to see the entire roster brought over and we'd finally be able to see the dream matches we'd been imagining up since the days of the Monday Night Wars.

It didn't happen like that and as a matter of fact, it's understandable. Some of those guys didn't want to come over for their own reasons, others they didn't have interest in. Others just wanted too much money, you have to keep in mind that purchasing WCW and creating all of those new jobs are a big investment in itself. It just wouldn't have been possible.

The brand extension idea though did stem from it which ultimately created more opportunities for young wrestlers.

 

[Eyebrows]

I know that people have complained at how Austin/Angle and other WWF wrestlers with little or no history in WCW jumped ship to give them that extra star power that they missed with the absence of Sting, Goldberg, Steiner, NWO etc.

It's a shame that Benoit was injured and Guerrero was in rehab during this period. If those two and maybe Malenko/Saturn had jumped to the Alliance it might have given them a tad more star power. As it was I kind of liked the gradual increase of WCW guys on TV.

I loved the Invasion angle...I was 12 and still thought wrestling was real so I got emotionally invested when I saw these WCW guys, who I'd never seen due to not being able to watch WCW here in the UK, come in and try and take it over. Even more emotional when Austin turned at Invasion. It's only in retrospect that I look back and know how many top WCW guys were missing.

I don't know how it was like for older guys watching it back then, if you had the same emotional investment, but that's something that was missing for me with Nexus. I guess that's just an age thing, though.

 

[WrestlingMark84]

i remember the aliance being in the ring it was like 15 of them in AUSTIN beat up every last one of them..talk about a super hero...i was pissed off...the invasion angle was only created to show how much better the WWE was compared to WCW AND ECW..that was the definition of kicking a dead horse...I remember they did it with the ECW guys beating down Kane and Jericho when they reformed and it was great...WCW on the other hand just had sneak attacks and run ins...poorly handled...But it was intended to be that way..Vince still doesn't like people he didn't create and if u are a unique talent and u pay your dues in the E u will get a shot eventually

 

[The Mark of Zur-En-Arrh]

Mike Awesome I believe attacked someone backstage too didn't he?

Indeed he did. Mike Awesome attacked Rhino and won the Hardcore title from him, at MSG. Now THAT is big. A non-contracted WCW wrestler won a championship from a WWF talent at MSG, where WWF ruled the roost.

MSg had pretty much been declared 'WWF Only' so that the other promotions didn't even get a look in, and i remember that when Awesome's hand was raised with the belt, JR was going apeshit about how it had spit in the face of the WWF/MSG tradition.

Unfortuantely, the fans didn't think it was worth getting excited about, probably because it was Mike Awesome of all people that actually did it, and he'd spent several years being made to look like pure shit in WCW, that people didn't remember what he could actually DO, as showcased when he was an ECW guy.

But more stuff than that happened. Before Booker T came along and attacked Austin at KOTR, DDP had been stalking Taker's wife, and Raven appeared and interfered in Tazz's match with the King at a PPV as well. Both of those angles had started BEFORE Booker ran in and attacked Austin.

The ECW side of things was actually handled EXACTLY like the NExus thing several months ago. If i recall, Kane and Jericho were forced to team up against Mike Awesome and Lance Storm (don't quote me on that, but it was definitely two guys who'd started in ECW and moved to WCW). During the match Tommy Dreamer, RVD and several other ECW guys came through the crowd and jumped in the ring and a mass beat down was delivered to JEricho and Kane. Several seconds later, the Dudleys, Rhino and a few other WWF/ECW guys came down as if they were going to make the save, but instead embraced their old ECW bretheryn and helped them beat Jericho and Kane down even further, and THAT's when Paul E. got up and announced that ECW was joining this war, and then at the end of the night, they'd joined up with Shane and Stephanie.

I think the main difference with these two angles, as people have alread said, is that when we heard Invasion by WCW, we all had expectations of what it'd be like. We all assumed that they'd have top tier WCW talent, with the WCW 'management' involved as well, but instead they were left out completely, and all we had were the wrestlers who were A) someone Vince thought he could make money off of, and B) not afriad to have their WCW reputations shit on by having to start again in WWF (Which is the sole reason we never saw Sting in WWF, because he wanted to be recognised as Sting with all his accomplishments and not be verbally shit on by The Rock which is what happened to Booker T).

What's really annoying is that ALL of those guys that previous posters claim they wanted to be involved in that angle, were eventually signed to WWF at some point anyway. The nWo, Goldberg and Mysterio all joined the WWF after the Invasion angle, Sting never did obviously, and there were still more ex-WCW guys to come. Jamie Noble didn't sign with WWF until way after the Invasion angle started, neither did Jimmy Wang Yang or Ultimo Dragon, and these are ALL ex-WCW guys.

But if you look right back, to the very day that Vince bought WCW from Ted Turner, you kinda had an idea of how he was going to treat their talent. Does nobody remember the little skits he had on Raw that night where he'd be watching Nitro in the back, and he'd comment on how he definitely wasn't going to re-hire guys like Goldust and Jeff Jarrett?

I can distinctly remember him doing one on Jarrett in particular where he said something along the lines of 'Jeff J-A-R-R-E-T-T is going to be G-O-N-E!' effectively telling the whole audience, that Jeff Jarrett's career was effectively over in regards to being in a top promotion and being featured on national television.

So personally, i think Vince always intended to do the Invasion angle the way that he did it, using reliable, younger WCW talent that weren't making huge money with WCW, so therefore Vince didn't have to pay them much more anyway, if any more at all, and ECW guys who were thankful just to get a guaranteed monthly pay check. Why re-hire all those fossils that fucked you about previously i.e. Hogan, Outsiders and have to pay them ME wage, when you can exploit the mid card guys who desperately need income for pittance?

We may not have thought the Invasion was well orchestrated, but from a business point of view, Vince probably made the best decision possible. Now you may argue that the revenue from the angle would have made it worth while, but Vince obviously didn't believe that at the time.

 

[Hulk Hogan's Brother]

To be honest the whole booking of the KOTR 2001 main event seems fishy and hurried to me. You have Stone Cold who is probably the biggest or the second biggest babyface that the WWF has ever had. He has freshly turned heel and is finding it a bit difficult to get booed. So what do you do? You put him up against Jericho and Benoit who constantly double team Austin. So Austin is fighting a glorified handicap match. On top of that you have Booker T running out and interfering against Austin. Isn't this the way you would book a babyface?


To come back to the original topic, yes I guess the Invasion would have certainly been better though the angle as a whole had too many loopholes. The biggest of them all was Mcmahon's own ego. He would never put WCW over WWF. If he would have done that this storyline could have easily continued for a few years. Another thing that I believe is that Triple H's injury threw everything out of the balance. I believe the storyline for that summer in WWF would have been a face HHH going up against a heel Austin.


Another thing that I hated was that the invasion was all about Mcmahons. Shane buying WCW, Stephanie getting control of ECW just didn't do it for me. I would have liked something like the WCW and ECW wrestlers coming to take revenge from Vince Mcmahon and his family for driving their respective companies out of business

 

[Tastycles]

The way that the Nexus takeover happened was a big impact because it was completely unexpected. To have achieved the same thing, the WWF would have had to make it look like they didn't own WCW or that they were going to do nothing with it. The former was impossible because WCW didn't have any TV to be shown separately, and the second would prove difficult. Probably the best way of doing it would have to debuted a few WCW wrestlers in a normal way, before suddenly having everyone else show up later and ransack the place. It would have been a big way to start the invasion, and better than what they did use, but to try and manufacture the same impact would have been difficult.