What If Flair and Hogan would have faced each other at WM8?

[roipdh123]

Hi everyone.I just started to look back at all of the past WM and I got to say that seeing WM 8 made me angry.
You had Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan the 2 biggest wrestlers in that time in the same show and they didn't put them against each other.Sure they have excuses for this but NO....they lost a match which easilly would be one of the greatest WM draws ever.

My questions are:
1.What would have happened to this show if this match did happended?
2.How would you book Sid & Savage in the show?
3.Did the WCW match between the 2 was still such a great attraction?

 

[MMK]

No reason why this match couldn't have happened.

WWF TITLE
Ric Flair vs Hulk Hogan
Hogan wins via DQ when Mr.Perfect interferes. Hulk wins the match, but Flair keeps the title. Flair and Perfect double team Hogan until Ultimate Warrior runs down to make the save. You still get the exact same finish to Mania, only with a better main event.

Sid Justice vs Undertaker
Sid turned heel a month prior to Mania, while Undertaker turned face. Why not save both turns for one match where Taker walks in as the heel, but leaves as the face after Sid kicks the urn around and pours the ashes out on the ground. Naturally Undertaker gets the win.

Randy Savage vs Jake The Snake
These two had on of the best feuds in wwf history yet they never had a major ppv match aside from the "This Tuesday In Texas" match; a match that easily could have been saved for Wrestlemania. After the loss, Jake ties Savage up in the ropes and forces him to watch while he taunts Liz with the cobra. Lights go out, Undertaker appears and tombstones Jake. Taker face turn is complete.

As for Savage vs Flair, you simply save that for Summerslam at Wembley Stadium. Flair wasn't even used on that card, which was a total waste.

 

[Wald]

Honestly I think they were about 3 years too late in signing Flair. Both of theirs star had waned somewhat by the time Wrestlemania 8 could have been booked and the simple fact is that Vince didn't book it because it wasn't drawing good business to their house shows. I don't think the interest in the match would have seen a difference in the buy rates and I think Flair was better off facing Savage.

Had the match happened I think it would have been a straight swap with Savage facing Sid, as Vince was very high on Sid, and I think Sid's first run with the company could have panned out better. Savage was obviously a better wrestler than Hogan and would have played to Sid's strengths, it also would have allowed for a better storyline as there was only so much you could do with a Hogan storyline at that time. In fact I think Sid was hurt by the feud with Hogan. If you remember it started by Hogan cheating Sid out of the Royal Rumble and yet for some reason we were meant to boo Sid for being angry about this. Was very strange booking and was the first sign that Hogan wasn't the star attraction he once was. Not drawing with Flair just added to that.

To answer the last question, I think it was a big attraction for WCW in their own terms at that time. They were still very much the second biggest company in America at that time and it helped draw eyes to their product. What was a good attraction for them doesn't mean it would be good for the WWF though, as Vince obviously had higher aspirations of what his PPV business should be.

 

[THTRobtaylor]

The main problem they had was that they had made some bad calls talent wise in the 18 months prior to this event and this is where those caught up with them. Flair coming in was fine, but guys like Rude walking out, letting Hennig continue injured for as long as he did and the stupid Slaughter title reign had all taken their toll...

The time period is somewhat similar to today, in that they had tried to push a lot of guys in a short space of time and it hadn't worked. They'd burned through DiBiase, Rude, Earthquake, Kerry Von Erich, Big Bossman and even Warrior and Undertaker with main event pushes in a 2-3 year period and either not followed through as in the case of Rude, Quake and DiBiase or gotten cold feet like Bossman and at the time Taker. Equate that to today's WWE and you'll see what I mean, they have Miz, Ryback, Christian, Wade Barrett, Swagger, Ziggler...

So Vince "pushed the panic button" and signed Flair, not out of necessity but cos he could and it would freshen his show, but he was more panicked that he'd lost Warrior and that Hogan wanted out...he "needed a new one" in that mould, so he hired Sid...It's the same now as re-signing Brock or Bootista.

You then have veteran talents such as Savage, Piper and Jake who had been sold a bill of goods that "their time" was coming. This means the roster situation going into those early stages of 92 and carrying on into Mania 9 were perhaps the most toxic locker room wise other than...well today's run up to 30. Does any of those last 3 sound anything like our buddy Phil?

WWE's mistake in 91 was wasting time with Flair - rather than headlining Summerslam with him taking on Piper, they put out a lame Survivor blow off to that "feud". Likewise, Summerslam 91 didn't feature Sid, Taker or Jake in anything more prominent than crashing a wedding or a ref spot.

Perhaps the wild card that ended our chances of the suggestions others made was Jake... he had been promised a role on the booking comittee and a major heel run. In many ways he was in the positon Bret Hart found himself in in 97. Vince turned him, didn't do it right by having him beat Warrior or even using the feud with Savage right and then when he questioned it was forced out.

Vince at the time wasn't focused on the WWF - he was getting the WBF off the ground and it shows in those 1991-93 shows. He's not been focused on WWE for a while cos of the network or rather, he is letting Trips do it his way... again distracted Vince...


So what was the decision that made this match not happen? I don't know if you can track it to one moment... but I always imagined it being comments from Hogan to Vince along the lines of... "So this is the great Ric Flair?", maybe after one of their early house show matches... or "Sid's not quite the Warrior is he?" not an off hand comment as such, but enough to plant the seed of doubt in Vince's head and start thinking Flair wasn't the guy to front the show... at some point we know he started talking to Warrior again at least.

That the match was first announced, then changed speaks volumes... Vince once again got cold feet on talent, only this time it was both of his "prize signings" in Flair and Sid. His relationship with Jake was in the toilet and Jake wanted to leave, the price for his release being jobbing to Taker...which Jake wouldn't have had a problem doing anyway - again Vince on the ball wouldn't allow that to happen for Jake to "get off easy" or Taker to turn so quickly face, but distracted Vince did so. Had they not sacrificed Rude 2 years earlier then I think he could have been facing Savage by then... perhaps in a career match or similar. Sid could have been facing off with Taker and of course Hogan v Flair... but it comes down to Vince not having faith in ANYONE practically ever... he gave it to Warrior, took it off him, gave it to Taker for 3 days, then aborted Bret's push for Hogan...it's continued almost unabated since... It is very rare for Vince to commit fully to a push at all costs... he didn't do so with Flair and it rather than Flair ruined it... At least in Ric's case he gave his word he could walk if he wasn't that top guy...he wasn't so Ric left... again, distracted Vince at his worst... smart Vince plays nice with Flair till he jobs out at Mania 9...Distracted Vince let's CM Punk walk before Mania 30...

 

[The_Juicer]

They could not have billed this as "Hogan's last match" obviously but regardless of house show attendance, I think this still would have been huge. Have the match end in DQ or a Flair win via cheating and it would have worked fine.

 

[Ubermensch]

I think the Flair vs Hogan match would have been well timed. It was poorly timed by the time it happened in WCW.

The Macho versus Flair feud was good, but that match ended up being more about Elizabeth and Flair then the title. The title ended up become secondary to the storyline and that isn't usually good. I would have saved Flair versus Macho Man for a later date in grudge match.

If this era could be rebooked. I would have had Flair win the title earlier on. Flair versus Piper at Royal Rumble and defend successfully. During the Royal Rumble I'd have the match go down to Perfect and Hogan as the last men in the ring with Flair coming down to attempt to assist Hogan so he wouldn't have to wrestle him at Mania, Hogan double clotheslines both men out and the main event everyone wanted to see occurring at Mania.

At Wrestle Mania. Sid begins his "Pyscho" gimmick in his feud with Savage and the two square off there.

Hogan beats Flair despite the interference from Perfect and Heenan. After the match the trio assault Hogan when the Warrior comes down for the save. This can set up a tag match between Flair and Perfect vs Hogan and Warrior and also Flair versus Hogan at some point.

 

[shooter_mcgavin]

I also heard the house show attendance was low but I also heard that the events weren't well advertised to begin with. So I am thinking that's a possibility why house show attendance was low.

Besides I couldn't imagine Flair/Hogan drawing less than Hogan/Sid and Savage/Flair (with all due respect to Savage because I loved their match at WM8).

 

[The Boss]

I can't speak for all of them, but I attended their house show in Cincinnati. While not sold out, there were clearly a lot more people than the average house show. Plus I've seen footage from some of there other WWF matches. All seemed to draw well. I doubt that would have been the reason.

But by not having the match my loyalty to the company was forever shattered. They promised us the match and even as a young boy I had to find a way to pay for it myself. I felt deep cheated. When WCW offered us the match - even though I couldn't be there live - I was more than happy to jump ship.

 

[Rocky84]

For whatever reason they decided not to do it whether it was because the House shows weren't advertised well thus getting poor attendance resulting in less than stellar reception, or because Hogan got in Vince's ear about Flair and not wanting to face him for some reason, or Vince getting cold feet for a particular reason and maybe even just preferring to to have it the way it went....it was an obvious mistake. One that I'm sure Vince probably regrets after I'm sure he's heard from fans all these years.

If we could go back and do it again, I think this card is absolutely perfect...

No reason why this match couldn't have happened.

WWF TITLE
Ric Flair vs Hulk Hogan
Hogan wins via DQ when Mr.Perfect interferes. Hulk wins the match, but Flair keeps the title. Flair and Perfect double team Hogan until Ultimate Warrior runs down to make the save. You still get the exact same finish to Mania, only with a better main event.

Sid Justice vs Undertaker
Sid turned heel a month prior to Mania, while Undertaker turned face. Why not save both turns for one match where Taker walks in as the heel, but leaves as the face after Sid kicks the urn around and pours the ashes out on the ground. Naturally Undertaker gets the win.

Randy Savage vs Jake The Snake
These two had on of the best feuds in wwf history yet they never had a major ppv match aside from the "This Tuesday In Texas" match; a match that easily could have been saved for Wrestlemania. After the loss, Jake ties Savage up in the ropes and forces him to watch while he taunts Liz with the cobra. Lights go out, Undertaker appears and tombstones Jake. Taker face turn is complete.

As for Savage vs Flair, you simply save that for Summerslam at Wembley Stadium. Flair wasn't even used on that card, which was a total waste.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

In order for it to feel as big as it actually would have been, here's how it should have gone down:

Real World's Champion Ric Flair vs WWF World Champion Hulk Hogan

I think the best way for it to work is for Hogan to keep the WWF title, and Flair and Heenan keep the big gold belt around, and book it as an "invasion" of the WCW/NWA champion into the WWF. Give Ric a prop belt that loosely resembles the big gold belt if there were legal problems of showing the actual championship. I'd also try and bring in AA, and play up the Horsemen angle as well. They shouldn't have run any of those house shows and saved it all for WrestleMania. After Hogan wins, the heels beat down on Hogan continuing the feud, cue Warrior's music.

Sid Justice vs The Undertaker

Face Sid, who is friends with Hogan vs a heel Undertaker who is loosely associated with Flair and Heenan. They could have had Undertaker win the title from Hogan with help from Flair like they did at Survivor Series. Then Sid debuts and helps Hogan win the title back a little later on. Sets up both the main event and this feud perfectly. What's interesting though is whether or not Taker would have been booked to go over Sid back then. Since Vince had big plans for Sid, could the streak have ended before it even began?

Macho Man Randy Savage vs one of Mr Perfect, Jake The Snake, or Arn Anderson

I like the idea above of Savage feuding with Jake The Snake. And if Jake was on his way out, it makes sense. But if Perfect was healthy and willing to compete, this could have been an excellent match up as well. Perfect was a heel and aligned with Flair and Heenan... they even could have used the same Elizabeth angle but with Hennig instead. If my idea above of successfully recruiting AA played out, putting him up against Savage could have been another interesting WWF vs NWA type of match.

Intercontinental Championship Bret Hart vs Rowdy Roddy Piper
As is.

Pretty awesome WrestleMania if you ask me. The WCW match years later wouldn't have come close to this, if Vince could have pulled it off.

 

[James Greiga]

Hi everyone.I just started to look back at all of the past WM and I got to say that seeing WM 8 made me angry.
You had Ric Flair and Hulk Hogan the 2 biggest wrestlers in that time in the same show and they didn't put them against each other.Sure they have excuses for this but NO....they lost a match which easilly would be one of the greatest WM draws ever.

My questions are:
1.What would have happened to this show if this match did happended?
2.How would you book Sid & Savage in the show?
3.Did the WCW match between the 2 was still such a great attraction?

I understand why that would be a huge main event but the thing is that by that point in time, Hogan and Flair were already on the decline in popularity. Hogan not so much as Flair because Hogan was getting pretty stale and lots of people were getting tired of the same old 1985 schtick in 1992. Not saying he still wasn't a draw but definitely not as much star power. If the match did happen I could picture Flair carrying Hogan in the ring. I would actually have liked a Savage/Undertaker match. Then Have Sid Justice face Jake the Snake.

The WCW match wasn't nearly the same. WCW Hogan was nothing like WWF's Hogan. Even in the beginning before he turned heel it just wasn't the same.

 

[justtxyank]

The "it didn't draw on house shows" story is a myth that has been put out years later to give cover for the stupid decision to pull the match.

WCW popped high numbers every time they booked Hogan v Flair for the next decade.

If the WWF had put that match on in 1992 that would have been a disastrous thing for WCW which relied heavily on the Hogan/Flair matchup in 1994 to gain traction after years of struggling to be relevant.

 

[Ubermensch]

That's a good point. If this match had never happened, it would have been to the detriment of WCW who made such a big leap forward when finally booking Hogan and Flair.

I won't go as far as to say that if WM 8 match had happened that WCW never would have been able to move forward, because Hogan was a draw regardless.

 

[Mac]

Vince not wanting a heel to win in the main event and with Hogan on his way out. That was the real reason why they scrapped the match. I do think the match should've happened and I agree that a DQ finish could've worked. Vince dropped the ball in 92' just like he dropped in '02 by not giving us Hogan/Austin.

 

[FlairFan2003]

Hogan and Flair werent wanning per se as interest in wrestling in general was. House show attendance and PPV buys were declining from 1990. While WWE numbers were down WCW number were also significantly down and nose dived further when Flair left, along with the embarrassment of the "We Want Flair" protests that hi jacked the Luger-Whyndam Great American Bash main event, essentially damaging Luger's cred even before he really got started as champ.

I dont have a problem with saving Flair's debut for after S-Slam, that event didnt need him and it gave WWE more time to hype his debut, plus humiliating WCW by showcasing their title belt as the symbol of "The Real World Champion". Im not sure why the wanted to rush Hogan-Flair into the house show circuit, although it's possible since this was the period in which you only did a handfull, basically one per season, PPV events making touring revenue more important. As far as attendance, I cant speak nationwide but Ive read their first match was a sell out (Dayton, OH), They nearly filled Madison Sq Garden (best attendance in last few events there), and here in Pittsburgh they drew over 11,000 and 13,500 for the two events they main evented sandwhiched around two WWE events main evented by Randy Savage and HBK, each drawing under 7,000.

More than anything the problem with this match at W-Mania was the Federal Steroid Investigation which among other things WWE was purging guys with illegal drug issues and needed to get Hogan & Piper (who was semi retired anyway) off screen and away from their product. Vince and WWE apparently werent happy w/ the idea of Hogan leaving after winning the title, thus vacating the belt and I cant see Vince giving Flair, the symbol of NWA-WCW, a win over his franchise Hogan, who likely wouldnt have been on board with losing to Flair, his greatest competitor nationwide in terms of popularity from a drawing standpoint.

The best way to have done this match would have been for Flair to beat Hogan cleanly (though not in dominating fashion, roll him up w/ a small package, dont make him tap to the Figure Four). Afterwards Hogan disappears while Flair goes on a rampage pummeling fan favs with viscious beatdowns after cheap wins, taunting fans with "Where's Hogan" every time. Finally, at Sat Nite Main Event have Hogan return, saving some beloved fan fave from another beat down. This sets up the Fight For Hulka-Mania as Flair announces two wins over Hogan, one at W-Mainia, would destroy Hulka-Mania and therefore Hogan should retire if he loses which Hogan agrees to. The drama in the match hype would have been unreal. Meanwhile have Sid positioned as the #1 Contender in Hogan's abscence, facillitating his heel turn (angry he is being by passed for title shot) and position him vs Savage. Leave Taker-Roberts & Piper-Hart alone.

At W-Mainia let Savage win but Sid brutalizes him post match bad. Make Hogan-Flair "NO DQ" also which would put the end in doubt w/ fans (no one thinks Flair wins at WM vs Hogan clean but No DQ means he can screw job a win and leave Hog a face saving excuse). Of course Hogan wins, Sid attacks, Warrior makes save.

Post event Hogan announces the retirement talk has made him & his family consider it seriously & he wants to spend more time with them but he feels Warrior can carry on and protect WWE from the likes of Flair putting over Warrior. What happens to Sid depends on if he still gets fired post WM, assuming he does have Savage win the title tournament and start the feud with Flair as the lead in to S-Slam.

As for Hogan-Flair in 94 WCW, it wasnt the event it could have been years earlier in WWE but it was historic and numbers bear out it was bigger than anything WWE was doing at the same time which was significant since WCW, Other than a fem flourishes like Starrcade 93 hadnt been competitive consistently since at least 1990.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

Vince not wanting a heel to win in the main event and with Hogan on his way out. That was the real reason why they scrapped the match. I do think the match should've happened and I agree that a DQ finish could've worked. Vince dropped the ball in 92' just like he dropped in '02 by not giving us Hogan/Austin.

There's another, simple solution to this problem: Don't vacate the title after Tuesday in Texas.

• Have Sid debut and cost Undertaker the title back to Hogan, despite Flair and Heenan's best efforts
• Keep booking Ric Flair as the "real world's champion", even give him his own belt, and book WM8 as Champion vs Champion
• Hogan wins the match at WM8, but Flair, Heenan, Perfect, (and ideally Arn) all beatdown on Hogan post-mach, injuring him, cue Warrior's return for the save
• After 'Mania, Hogan sells the injury from the post-match beatdown and is forced to vacate the championship

A heel doesn't win at WrestleMania, WrestleMania ends on a high note with Hogan/Warrior, Vince protects himself by making Hogan beat Flair, and Hogan still leaves due to the steroid scandal.

After 'Mania, Ric Flair finally wins the vacant WWF World Championship in a battle royal or a tournament (early shades of the King of the Ring, perhaps?)

From there, you can go in many different directions:

• SummerSlam sees Ric Flair 'C' vs Savage or Warrior
• Survivor Series ideally sees Flair, Perfect, Anderson, Undertaker vs Savage, Warrior, Sid, Bret Hart
• Or Flair 'C' vs Bret Hart in a big PPV match
• Or if Flair is still leaving the company, have Bret beat him in a house show just like what actually happened
• But since this is all fantasy booking, my ideal scenario is Savage beating Flair for the title at some point and then putting over Bret Hart at WrestleMania 9.

 

[HBKperfect23]

I agree with almost everything crucified raven said.

I'll add /change just a few things. I'd ditch the sat nights main event because it's not needed to change wm8. Flair still wins the rumble, hogan is still champion. Sets up champions main event, winner take all. Savage/Jake is done at wrestlemania inside a cage and they don't wrestle at TIT. Sid heel turn never happens. Taker face turn doesn't happen. Hogan forfeits the belt due to injury from post match beating from flair perfect and taker. (Warrior makes save)

Sat nights main event is now post wm and is king of the ring special for the vacant WWf title. This is event is used to transition the characters like the one in February 92 did. Taker turns face at this event. Bret,bulldog, and shawn are elevated by being in the tournament. Bret even wins a match. The tournament is used to feature flair,savage,warrior. Savage defeats flair in the final. Now we still get the classic flair/savage match. All the stars a now aligned to build the same way to summerslam.

What I don't like about this: we don't get the Sid heel run, Roberts/taker, or the flair/savage build in full (still have them feud on Tv post WM but obviously there would be no way of knowing they'd wrestle for sure since it's a tournament), and flair doesn't get his first WWf title run.

Although WWf champ hogan vs real worlds champ flair will always be try dream match I never got to see, I still love the way late 91-late 92 played out.

 

[FlairFan2003]

A lot of people are posting Arn Anderson references, considering he left WWE in 1989 and there is no indication that Vince-WWE wanted him back in some "package deal" with Flair it seems a bit silly to "Fantasy Book" him with Flair.

 

[CrucifiedRaven]

A lot of people are posting Arn Anderson references, considering he left WWE in 1989 and there is no indication that Vince-WWE wanted him back in some "package deal" with Flair it seems a bit silly to "Fantasy Book" him with Flair.

It's all fantasy booking. But yes, it's even further beyond the realm of possibility. It's just difficult not to entertain the thought of a potential Four Horsemen invasion into WWF in 1991.