What if.... Bret Hart had been the 3rd man?

[KillBill]

I'm not sure this questions been asked, I looked around and saw things about the Montreal Screwjob and what if it never happened, but lets go back another year. After Wrestlemania 12, Bret Hart took time off, around 6 or 7 months, and apparently had some interaction with Bischoff. Shortly after he returned at Survivor Series 96, there was an interview with him in a magazine, and they asked him what he would say to Eric, and his response was, "what could have been, maybe should have been", hinting he had the chance to leave, but he came back to WWE and we all know what happened. But what if he did. What if he left for WCW with Hall and Nash, what if HE had been the 3rd man at Bash at the Beach 1996?

The possibilities are endless. THe big one that comes to my mind is, no Hogan Heel turn? If he didn't would the NWO be as big as it got? Would Bret win titles, become the biggest thing that ever happened? It would have almost made more sense for him to do it, but the fact that Hogan did it was unbelievable too. In WWE, would Austin have become big? No Montreal screwjob? NO DX? This would have changed the landscape of Wrestling. What do you guys think?

 

[AngryGrandpa]

I think had the Montreal screwjob been avoided... wrestling might have really suffered.. This moment really launched Vince McMahon as a heel..Which spawned the Attitude era...Had there been no Attitude..Stone Cold would have been Stunning Steve and WCW would be the promotion on top today with no classic Attitude era moments...

The NWO I don't think would have worked without Hogan....Something about Hogan set off the nwo...The fact that he was so adored by so many people made it insanely shocking...Bret had already been a well known heel..The impact would have been far less significant and things would REALLY be different.

 

[agentmichaelscarn]

As big of Bret Hart mark as I am I dont think the NWO would have worked or atleast been as successful as it was with Hogan. Bret was always a face(as a singles wrestler and at that time) and was your prototypical face so it would have been shocking to see him turn but he's just not in Hogan's league as far as name value and popularity. I think it might have worked for a bit but Hogan is the main reason why the NWO was so popular.

The WWE might have not been where it is either if he did that. Austin was the biggest reason why the WWE turned it around and I think Bret Hart was a big reason why. He was starting to gain popularity after KOTR 96 and the awesome promo he cut there but what really put him over the top was his feud with Bret. That elevated him to main event caliber by calling out WWE's biggest star and the face of the organization, if he was feuding with some mid carder instead of Bret Im not so sure he would have become as big. Also there might not have been a DX either since a big reason why they formed was to feud with another faction The Hart Foundation. Also Bret was actually the one that helped give them that name by calling them degenerates before that was even their name, not that it makes much of a difference what they ended up calling them just pointing out that Bret actually planted the seed for their name. Then of course there would be no screwjob which helped the Mr. McMahon character. So yeah if Bret ended up going to WCW after WM12 and being the 3rd member I think it really could have changed the entire landscape of wrestling.

 

[klunderbunker]

I can't picture Bret fitting in with that. In WWF Hall and Nash were "cool" characters. The first promo Hall cut said he went where he wanted when he wanted, Nash said he did what he wanted. That's not the kind of character Bret portrayed. He was a serious in ring worker that dominated people with athleticism. Also, Hogan, Nash and Hall were all practically giants. Hall was the shortest at i believe 6'6. I've always thought that was a big part in their intimidation factor as they were bigger than most of the roster. Bret would have had the biggest splash of anyone in WWF jumping, but I just can't picture it working nearly as well.

 

[Starchild]

I agree with KB here, I can't see this as having worked. The reason nWo was hated and so over in the first place was the shock value of the Hogan turn. He had tried an unsuccessful heel turn a few years prior, but aside from that he was THE top face in the history of wrestling and still is. I doubt anyone will ever take that from him either. So when he turned and told the fans to shove it, that was just monumental. How could the hero of so many, especially the millions of children just turn on them like this? I was 8 or so when it happened and I cried like a baby afterwards. From there, he went on to truly show how great he was by becoming on the top heels of all time as well.

Bret Hart just wouldn't have had that. Yea, there were many people that liked him and the kids looked up to him, but not like Hogan. He had been a true heel in the past and played the part well, so it wouldn't be the first real time. And if you watch the Iron Man Match with Michaels, he clearly looks like more of a heel than Michaels. Everyone loved HBK by that time and wanted him to win, and Hart complaining about the decision to continue the match just added on to that. So him jumping to wCw at that time would have been huge, but him replacing Hogan in the nWo just wouldn't have that monumental feel to it. Only Hogan could accomplish that task.

On another note, had Hart left and the Montreal Screwjob never happened, then who knows what would have become of WWE. That launched McMahon into the evil dictator and thus launched the Attitude Era which we constantly talk about as the best era in professional wrestling. No telling would kind of repercussions would have occurred from that incident never happening. It all worked out just the way it needed to.

 

[TheWeasel]

As great a wrestler as Hart was, and he was maybe the best for a couple of years, he couldn't have pulled off that switch like Hogan did. The big thing about that match wasn't that it was another intruder, but that it was someone on the inside; a favorite son who would come out and betray the entire company for a couple of outsiders. Hart would have had to be brought in and had some programs to run if he was going to be that guy. Plus he never had the mike skills that were required to pull of such a monumental moment that Hogan had. Can you imagine Mean Gene talking to Hart instead of Hogan in the middle of that ring with all that trash flying everywhere. Just wouldn't have worked

 

[Shocky]

Gotta disagree whole heartedly with Bret not having the mic skills to pull of a heel turn. 1997 was Hart's best work ever on the mic, and he was arguably as hot as heel Hogan during that period of time. Bret Hart damn near started a border war with Canada and America. Screw two factions facing off against each other, Hart nearly started a War.

I honestly think it could have worked, but it would have worked in a different way. Hogan worked well because as said earlier, Hogan was a part of WCW, he was becoming a part of the fabric. He was an insider, and he turned on WCW. With Hart, he would have been an outsider with no ties to the company whatsoever.

This is where I think it would have stayed stronger with as far as the illusion that the WWF was coming to take over. For those few months with Hall and Nash invading Nitro, people genuinely believed that there was something up with WCW and the WWF. When Hogan came, the illusion was broken and it went into a different direction.

With Hart, that mystique could have stayed. Damn, the WWF was invading the WCW. what the hell was going on here? Now, how long an angle like that could have run with Hart at the helm, only what ifs at this point. However, I think it would have worked out better for Hart at that point in time then his actual WCW run. WCW would have been able to use Hart properly, which they never did.

 

[dajack23]

you all make valid points, b.h did have great promos in 97 as a heel and also it would have kept people thinking is it the wwf invading idea but remember at gab 96 both outsiders say they dont work 4 wwf so i dunno. i personally cant see anyone but hogan hart may have had the mic skills but he wouldnt have had that same badass demeanor hogan did! even though he was an insider i think the intrigue would have been kept up as he was the biggest face ever. still is. i read in bischoffs book that sting was actually slated to b the 3rd guy as hogan werent sure if he wanted to turn as hed lose quite alot. lol quite ironic. i was surprised to read that sting was ready to step in right up until the day of B.O.T.B. if hulk got cold feet. which would have been interesting.

 

[AngryGrandpa]

My only thing, is yes..He had very good mic skills... But whould it have been NEARLY as shocking??? I don't think it would have...

Hulk Hogan was always number 1 in the kids hearts and suddenly he's telling them to stick it...It was a major move by WCW and I don't think it could have ever been done by ANYBODY....

Bret would have caused an impact of course...But would that impact be significant enough to beat WWF in the ratings 80 weeks in a row?

 

[KillBill]

That was my first thread, thank for your opinions, they are all great. I think Bret being there would be just as shocking, because the internet wasn't as big, and jumps were shocking. Hogan had the bigger impact, but Bret Hart was the best wrestler alive, so he might have made it work. We may have finally had Hogan vs Bret, maybe Hogan takes the character that Sting became, the dark hero, maybe he joins later. Maybe Sting gets fed up with invaders and goes to WWE. I think the thing I wanted opinions on was what would happen to WWE? No Stone Cold? No DX? No screwjob. Thats a huge part of WWE. Maybe they get in trouble. The Rock would still happen since he got big later. But how many more guys woulda joined bret? His fam? Maybe Owen never becomes the Blue Blazer and doesn't die. Maybe WCW doesn't die. Maybe Hogan comes back, and maybe Bret to years later. The possibilities are endless. Its the butterfly effect. Change one thing, change EVERYTHING.

 

[AngryGrandpa]

Ya Bill...I addressed what would have happened to the WWE in my first reply.

Without the Montreal screwjob there would be no Mr. Mcmahon

which means no Attitude era.. Which only spells bad things

I don't think WWE would have won the ratings battle and eventually would have closed.

I think things happened the way they should have..And turned out perfect..I just wish WCW never closed...Wrestling needs rivals

 

[dajack23]

i dont think wwf would have survived as bret razor diesel hbk and taker were the major guys and withe 3 of those 5 gone, the wwf would have been pretty thin as austin would never have got that great feud which elevated his career and fans opinion of him. although austin did win kotr 1996 he was in a summerslam free for all 2months later against yokozuna. also obviously no screwjob no vince v austin rivalry no attitude era.

 

[Enigmania]

On the plus side HBK would be cheered in Canada.

Everyone has put in great points - The Butterfly Effect would be the best way to describe it.

Maybe the crap angles involving Bret would've been avoided. And that he would be facing Kurt Angle. And Golberg wouldn't have became as big because he beat Hogan originally. No stroke for Bret.

No DX, No Stone Cold, No Mr McMahon.

I don't think WWF would've folded. A different era would've been ushered in with younger guys.

I think I'll be thinking of the effects for the rest of the day now.

 

[abrahamclark]

I'm not sure this questions been asked, I looked around and saw things about the Montreal Screwjob and what if it never happened, but lets go back another year. After Wrestlemania 12, Bret Hart took time off, around 6 or 7 months, and apparently had some interaction with Bischoff. Shortly after he returned at Survivor Series 96, there was an interview with him in a magazine, and they asked him what he would say to Eric, and his response was, "what could have been, maybe should have been", hinting he had the chance to leave, but he came back to WWE and we all know what happened. But what if he did. What if he left for WCW with Hall and Nash, what if HE had been the 3rd man at Bash at the Beach 1996?

The possibilities are endless. THe big one that comes to my mind is, no Hogan Heel turn? If he didn't would the NWO be as big as it got? Would Bret win titles, become the biggest thing that ever happened? It would have almost made more sense for him to do it, but the fact that Hogan did it was unbelievable too. In WWE, would Austin have become big? No Montreal screwjob? NO DX? This would have changed the landscape of Wrestling. What do you guys think?

I think the entire landscape of the wrestling industry would be completely different today. However, I'm not so sure not turning Hogan into a bad guy would be a good idea. I think that might have prevented WCW from becomming as big as it did, but if Hart did come to WCW at that time then I think the chances of WWE suriving would have been much slimmer.

Very good discussion... very thought provoking.

 

[WillYouStopIt!]

If Bret Hart did leave in the Summer of 1996, then the WWF would have folded. Shawn Michaels couldn't carry the company and Steve Austin would have been without his great feud with The Hitman. But I think more importantly is the importance of Bret Hart and the Hart Foundation in 1997. All one has to do is watch any episode of Raw from 1997 to see how important and crucial the Hart Foundation was to the WWF. Taking them out of the equation would pretty much eliminate almost all of the major angles the WWF had that year.

 

[InsideTheRing]

Yeah... Really don't see the nWo being as huge as it was at its prime. The main reason it worked was because of seeing Hulk Hogan as that Heel Character. It could have worked a little if the nWo was created AFTER the montreal screwjob with Hall,Nash and Hart, just pissed at the wrestling industry in general...

But who knows..

What if the nWo angle hadn't taken off at all...