Week 4 - Guy vs. Dave

FromTheSouth

You don't want it with me.
This thread is for the debaters only. It will be open until next Sunday at 6 PM CST.

Dave will be affirming the topic.


Resolved: Liberty ought to be valued above order.
 
As per usual, I am late to the game again and I apologize greatly for this. Let me just explain why it is. I work very hard during the openings of weeks and I generally don’t get the time to post a debate. However, it begins to cool down slightly after Wednesday and I am able to get some posting done. With that in mind, I apologize to FTS and to my opponent, GuyCompton. I know have thought that you are a good poster for a while and I am very much looking forward to seeing what you have to offer. Good luck, mate.

Anyway, let’s get on with the debate. Now, the issue at hand is very divisive and is sure to garner a great number of views. However, let’s take a look at the question:

Resolved: Liberty Ought To Outweigh Order

Intro:

Now, a lot of people may look at that issue and immediately write off my side of the debate. After all, order is the basis for everything that exist in a developed world. We have been taught to obey the rules and have respect for the people who uphold them, such as judges and police officers. However, this is not what this debate is about. In my opinion, this debate is about whether the right to act on our own free will, transcends the order that has been prevalent in our lives since we were old enough to comprehend rules and regulations.

As I said, people will immediately write off the views that I am about to state because their lives have been condition to thinking that liberty is something that must come after order. However, in most circumstances, this could not be further from the truth. As I try to prove this point, please have an open mind and consider everything.

Main Body:

The problem with order, is that it can be broken at all times and that is the case all over the world. People are fighting for their rights all over the map and would feel extremely justified in doing this. The best examples of when liberty and order come into conflict are when we are indeed, in conflict. When at war, liberty and order are at loggerheads and the best illustration of this is still happening as I type this debate. For you see, many men are fighting against people who have tried to force an unwanted order on civilians. The war on terrorism is a prime example of when liberty ought to transcend order. I have many points to raise here and I will get started with these

1. Hundreds of miles away, in a desert region of Iraq, free men fight for liberty of civilians that do not belong to their own nation. They are fighting because of a corrupt regime that has plagued the region must be challenged and these men are doing so. They may be fighting under an order but in a warzone, liberty is expertly illustrated. These men are trying to give liberty to people who have never had that luxury.

2. Order is corrupt. You see it everywhere. The justice system is fucked up and allows people to walk free on technicalities from time to time. Even as high as politicians are corrupt. Yet, they wish to force an order upon us and tell us to follow the rules when the rules that they enforce and promise to protect are being changed and broken continually. However, liberty is something that cannot be corrupted. Only a man will know when to stop in search of justice and once it is achieved a man has nothing else to fight for. I suppose you could say that without order, a man would not need to worry about liberty as it is all he would know.

3. Order is something that has been forced upon us at the liberty if other men. In history, people have decided that order must be used to keep people from acting on their urges and questioning the order. I know this seems overly complicated but it is true. Without liberty, order could not have existed and thus liberty ought to transcend it.

Of course, then you have a completely different type of liberty and it is concerned with the defence of something. Let me paint you a picture with my imagination brush, shall I?

Say, America was under attack by a foreign power, let’s say that it is China. You know that once the Chinese take over, your liberty and order will be taken away. I would argue that if you are about to lose those liberties, you must be willing to lose them in order to keep them. Order must be released and liberty must take over, even if it is to protect the order that you believe in. To simplify things, if America was bound to follow order and thus was about to be taken over by China, qouldn’t you rather break the order and use your own liberties to defend the order that is relevant to the American people? People must be prepared to forfeit some, if not all, of their thoughts of order and act on their liberties because the opposing force would take away those orders and liberties anyway. They have nothing to lose.

Conclusion:

It is my opinion that people are too true to order and under many circumstances, order must be forfeited in order to keep those liberties that we all cling to. In the act of war, Liberty is the biggest gift that people could ever possess and liberty is the ultimate goal of a lot of the wars that exist at this point in time. Of course liberty should transcend order because without liberty, there would be no order.
 
Very good post by Dave. Took a very logical approach that I was easily able to follow. It was work that was in tip top shape, mate. Is that how you compliment each other in the Green country?

Anyway, what happened to Guy? Watching too much MMA I assume?

Dave - 45
Guy - 0
 
I would have went all transcendentalist on this shit, but Dave did a good job here, wish Brooktoon would have replied to this. I have Dave 36ish points. Feel thats good.
 

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