Week 3 - CP vs. TDigle | WrestleZone Forums

Week 3 - CP vs. TDigle

FromTheSouth

You don't want it with me.
This thread is for the debaters only. It will close at 6 PM CST on Sunday.

CP will be affirming the topic.

Resolved: Unions should be allowed additional bargaining power in negotiations with companies who received government bailouts.
 
This thread is for the debaters only. It will close at 6 PM CST on Sunday.

CP will be affirming the topic.

Resolved: Unions should be allowed additional bargaining power in negotiations with companies who received government bailouts.

Apologies for the lateness, I've spent all week revising for mock exams, meaning I haven't had time to post. Better late than never eh?

Once again, aplogies to FTS and tdigle.

Today I shall be arguing that unions should be allowed additional bargaining power when entering negotiations with companies who received government bailouts.

Forgive me if I use mainly British companies as examples when forming this response, as I don't know much about the American companies that have been bailed out by Obama in the bail-out plan he sanctioned.

Introduction​

Throughout the process of the worldwide recession, and especially during the past year or so, governments around the world have had to bail out companies, mainly banks, in order to preserve peoples finances, as the worst thing to happen during a recession would be for lots of peoples money to be lost.

The most obvious examples here in England would be to refer to banks and building societies such as Northern Rock, Hobos, etc, however the bail outs have also extended to car companies and other firms perceived as being vital to the progression of the country and the world. Now, back to the topic at hand. This first post won't be the longest, as I'm not the best at opneing a debate, so I'll keep the crux of my argument short and sweet.

If you are the TUC, who represent most organised workers in Britain, and you feel that your workers deserve a payrise, particularly understandable given the recent scandal with bailed-out bank bosses being given huge bonuses (Fred Goodwin, I'm looking at you) then a fairly substantiable case ciuld be made for whatever the unions are trying to bargain for, be it wages, flexible working hours, whatever.

I say this because if a company has been bailed out, then it is a fairly good indication that said company is struggling, whatever the struggle is because of. I am of the opinion that unions should be given additional bargaining power
when dealing with these companies, particularly when bargaining about employees, because in order for the business to thrive again it is imperative to keep as many workers as it can.

I invite tidigle's response and hope for a good, albeit late, debate.
 
No, unions should not have additional bargaining power with companies that have received government bailout funds. The question posed to us, couchpotato, is very open-ended, but, when I read it, the companies that came to my mind were the "Big Three" American automobile corporations: General Motors, Ford, and Chrysler. Thus, these are the companies that I shall be focusing on.

As anyone with an Internet connection or a subscription to a daily newspaper should know, both General Motors (GM) and Chrysler have, within the past year, filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy (Link). Ultimately, both of these companies filed for bankruptcy in order to reorganize and receive bailout funding from the American federal government. Given this situation, two things should be obvious: one, these companies are in dire financial straits, and two, their operations are now being funded to a significant extent by taxpayer money.

While I would be hesitant to say anything about how these companies were run if they were struggling to make ends meet without federal funds, this is definitely not the case here. By providing monies to these corporations, the American federal government has essentially involved itself in an instance of overt client politics, where the costs of the instance are widely distributed (the American tax base at large) but the benefits are narrowly concentrated (about 2% of America's labor force, which would be even less if Ford was not included) (Link). Essentially, then, Americans are upholding an industry that, for all intents and purposes, cannot currently compete with its foreign counterparts in terms of efficiency. While this relative inefficiency is partly attributable to American car companies' past reliance on the at-one-time popular sport utility vehicle (SUV), part of the blame lies with this industry's heavily unionized work force.

Undoubtedly, unions do great things for their members. Without them, workers in labor-intensive industries would not have some of the benefits that are regarded by many people (both outside and inside of these industries) as due to them. However, it is also undeniable that unions create economic inefficiencies; by making membership a requirement for employment and by insisting on contract negotiations and set wages, unions limit the labor pool available to companies and drive up their production costs. Unfortunately, though, market economies put the decisions on what to purchase in the hands of consumers, who are free to choose what they want by any criteria that they so please.

When applied to America's automobile industry, the previous paragraph's analysis proves very telling. The precipitous fall in the popularity of SUVs in America indicates that Americans value fuel economy. Given that American cars are only somewhat competitively priced, there exists little, if any, rewarding trade-off between an American car's initial cost and its substantial gas consumption. Thus, American car companies should be, first and foremost, looking for ways to either reduce the retail price of their end product, increase their cars' fuel economy, or both. Obviously, then, meeting new labor demands should not be bailed-out company's primary concern at this point in time.

Right now, American car companies need to focus on how to significantly increase their incoming cash flows. Given the time and financial resources unions eat up, they should currently have little, if any, bargaining power over the way American automobile companies run their businesses. From a trade perspective, economies are self-correcting; should America's automobile industry falter, new jobs will be created in some other existing or new industry that will replace those lost in the automobile industry. Sure, the new jobs may not offer the inflated pay and substantial fringe benefits of the automobile industry, but they will still put food on tables, clothes on backs, and roofs over heads. Saving America's automobile industry should be about saving jobs, not about saving a costly, government-funded cash cow.
 
Throughout the process of the worldwide recession, and especially during the past year or so, governments around the world have had to bail out companies, mainly banks, in order to preserve peoples finances, as the worst thing to happen during a recession would be for lots of peoples money to be lost.

Agreed.

If you are the TUC, who represent most organised workers in Britain, and you feel that your workers deserve a payrise, particularly understandable given the recent scandal with bailed-out bank bosses being given huge bonuses (Fred Goodwin, I'm looking at you) then a fairly substantiable case ciuld be made for whatever the unions are trying to bargain for, be it wages, flexible working hours, whatever.

Did Mr. Goodwin's bonuses come at the expense of his employees' wages? If this is the case, then I will agree with you that this was wrong and that these employees should have been entitled to their full salaries. However, if all salaries were honored, but Mr. Goodwin gave himself a bonus from either company money that should have been reinvested or from loaned money, then I don't think that his indiscretion necessitates greater bargaining power on the part of unions. Rather, it just calls for a new, more financially responsible boss.

I say this because if a company has been bailed out, then it is a fairly good indication that said company is struggling, whatever the struggle is because of. I am of the opinion that unions should be given additional bargaining power
when dealing with these companies, particularly when bargaining about employees, because in order for the business to thrive again it is imperative to keep as many workers as it can.

The question that needs to be answered is this: would you rather try to leverage as much as you could out of your struggling employer, thus increasing the chances that they will go belly-up, or would you rather weather the storm, accept little to no positive change for a few years, and increase your chances of continued employment?

Given the vagaries of the labor market, I'd take the latter over the former choice any day.
 
TDigle nailed the point right on the head. Giving unions additional bargaining power will raise the price of American cars, destroying the industry as a whole. The problem lies in the amount of power unions have over their industry.

TDigle gets the win and 45 of 50 points.

CP gave only one short post, so he gets 30.
 
Great work by tdgile here, couldn't find much to disagree with. It was rather wordy at times, but maybe I'm just stupid. Valiant effort from CP though

tdigle- 47
cp - 31
 
Tdigle always blows me away with his posts. CP had a bit or a disadvantage, but he did alright. He gets 25 to Tdigles 45.
 

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