Week 1: Razorback -versus- Milkyway
- Thread starter Mr. TM
- Start date
Well then. Let's do this. I'm currently loaded on a few pain pills for my leg, but this is no where near what Xfear was doing last night. 
The topic at hand. Should men face women in the ring? I say no. Men facing women in the ring only serves to show violence women as a reasonable end to anger. Not only that, but it helps absolutely no one involved, in the long run.
Let's take my first point. How would a man facing a woman in the ring be a bad thing? How does it do as I claim, and show violence towards women as a reasonable end? Well, let's take Carlito's heel turn from a few years ago.
Carlito finally turned on Flair, the man who had been riding his ass for a few weeks about finally giving it his all in the ring. Not only did Carlito turn on Flair, but he turned on his girlfriend, Tori Wilson. Carlito is so angry at the two of them, he will do anything to make them realize just how much better he is than them. So what does he do? Get a match against Tori Wilson, act like he'll just let her walk away, and pull the Backstabber out of no where. What does this show the viewing public? It shows them that it's reasonable to attack a woman, as long as you're really really pissy with her to begin with.
As far as a face beating up or even hitting a heel diva or women's wrestler, I can't remember an instance of such an event. Because, you know. Faces follow the rules and basic moral and what not. But what if a face were to hit a heel women's wrestler? What if John Cena were to hit the Miz' new valet, Maryse? What would that show to the viewing public? That it's okay to hit women who are cheating at the same game/job you're competing in? That it's okay to hit a woman as long as she's mean to you?
All of that, plus the man on woman violence desensitizes children (the new target audience) and the viewing public against man/woman violence. The first time you see it you say "Oh ma gawd, Cena just punched Maryse straight in the jaw." The next time you say "That's mean." The third time you say "Huh." The fourth time, it's "Oh well." It's the same thing for violence in today's news and video games, only applied to wrestling and violence against women. Not quite as fast or progressed as I described, admittedly. But the same principle applies.
Let us move along from the violence against women side of the argument. Whom does a woman facing a man in the ring help? Let's look at Chyna's reign for instance. She was the first woman to qualify for King of the Ring. She went over (an admittedly leaving) Jeff Jarrett for the WWE Intercontinental Championship. She went on to feud with Jericho over the title, becoming co-champions with him before finally losing it to him in a Triple Threat. I ask you, whom did that feud help? It's not like Chyna was ever going to win the WWE championship. And it's not like backstage said "Oh ma gawd, look at how Jericho jobbed to Chyna! He's going to be the first Undisputed WWE Champion, mark my words."
What about Beth Phoenix' not-so recent feud against Santino? She pinned him how many times in the ring? And whom did it serve in the long run? A Beth Phoenix who didn't need those pins and is currently off TV? Or maybe Santino, the wrestler who hasn't even stepped into a wrestling ring in how long? Santino, the man who has been relegated to shitty comedy skits with the guest hosts? That stuff he did with ZZ Top was an abomination. Who was helped from that Beth Phoenix feud? No one.
There you have it. Men should not be facing women in the ring. It helps no one's careers, it merely promotes the idea of violence against women as a valid outlet for anger, and it desensitizes the viewers towards domestic violence or generic violence against women.
Sources:...Uh...Youtube?
The topic at hand. Should men face women in the ring? I say no. Men facing women in the ring only serves to show violence women as a reasonable end to anger. Not only that, but it helps absolutely no one involved, in the long run.
Let's take my first point. How would a man facing a woman in the ring be a bad thing? How does it do as I claim, and show violence towards women as a reasonable end? Well, let's take Carlito's heel turn from a few years ago.
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Carlito finally turned on Flair, the man who had been riding his ass for a few weeks about finally giving it his all in the ring. Not only did Carlito turn on Flair, but he turned on his girlfriend, Tori Wilson. Carlito is so angry at the two of them, he will do anything to make them realize just how much better he is than them. So what does he do? Get a match against Tori Wilson, act like he'll just let her walk away, and pull the Backstabber out of no where. What does this show the viewing public? It shows them that it's reasonable to attack a woman, as long as you're really really pissy with her to begin with.
As far as a face beating up or even hitting a heel diva or women's wrestler, I can't remember an instance of such an event. Because, you know. Faces follow the rules and basic moral and what not. But what if a face were to hit a heel women's wrestler? What if John Cena were to hit the Miz' new valet, Maryse? What would that show to the viewing public? That it's okay to hit women who are cheating at the same game/job you're competing in? That it's okay to hit a woman as long as she's mean to you?
All of that, plus the man on woman violence desensitizes children (the new target audience) and the viewing public against man/woman violence. The first time you see it you say "Oh ma gawd, Cena just punched Maryse straight in the jaw." The next time you say "That's mean." The third time you say "Huh." The fourth time, it's "Oh well." It's the same thing for violence in today's news and video games, only applied to wrestling and violence against women. Not quite as fast or progressed as I described, admittedly. But the same principle applies.
Let us move along from the violence against women side of the argument. Whom does a woman facing a man in the ring help? Let's look at Chyna's reign for instance. She was the first woman to qualify for King of the Ring. She went over (an admittedly leaving) Jeff Jarrett for the WWE Intercontinental Championship. She went on to feud with Jericho over the title, becoming co-champions with him before finally losing it to him in a Triple Threat. I ask you, whom did that feud help? It's not like Chyna was ever going to win the WWE championship. And it's not like backstage said "Oh ma gawd, look at how Jericho jobbed to Chyna! He's going to be the first Undisputed WWE Champion, mark my words."
What about Beth Phoenix' not-so recent feud against Santino? She pinned him how many times in the ring? And whom did it serve in the long run? A Beth Phoenix who didn't need those pins and is currently off TV? Or maybe Santino, the wrestler who hasn't even stepped into a wrestling ring in how long? Santino, the man who has been relegated to shitty comedy skits with the guest hosts? That stuff he did with ZZ Top was an abomination. Who was helped from that Beth Phoenix feud? No one.
There you have it. Men should not be facing women in the ring. It helps no one's careers, it merely promotes the idea of violence against women as a valid outlet for anger, and it desensitizes the viewers towards domestic violence or generic violence against women.
Sources:...Uh...Youtube?
First and foremost I would like to say good luck to my oponent, and that I hope you will have as much fun as I in this debate.
Now then, as everyone should allready know, I chose am on the pro side for why women should be able to wrestling men, and I have a mere 3 reasons why. Women are just as good as men, women can be better than men, and its sexiest to believe otherwise.
Women are just as good as men. How can I prove such a thing? Well, a lot of people seem to miss the fact that women in general are more agile, and more flexible than men are. This makes for great opportunity for any female force to be able to colide with the likes of any cruiserweight.
Just take a look at a woman named Sarita. Her highflying abilities match that of any man I have ever seen. Why should it be wrong for her to go toe to toe with the likes of someone like Rey Mysterio, Evan Bourne, AJ Styles, etc? Exactly, theres nothing wrong with it.
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That man is a 180 pound man, going against a woman. Thus I say, women can preform with men.
Women can be better than men. I think this is proven all throughout time, and with the exsistance of women like Layla Ali, The Venus Sisters, Jackie Joyner, Nancy Lopez, Manon Rheaume. I'll go one in the next post, if you really want me to. Each of these women brought something to their sport and revolutionized the way things were done. Theres no denying that a women inside of a fake sport, can't do the same. Whether they're facing men or not. Women have the abilities to do the same thing men can, even in a mans world.
Furthermore, I say its sexist to believe otherwise. Women have been fighting for their rights in history all through out time. Some of the greatest writers ever, stole their material from their wives. Now, finnally when the pedistool between men and women can be shared, I find that a woman, and a man can clearly work together, and can even be a door for the best women, going into the WNBA, or the best women, going in the PGA. Why shouldn't we the fans accept this fact, and the WWE accept this fact, and become the gateway for all women all around the world, to finnally be seen as equals to men. Not only because its sexiest to think a woman can't go toe to toe with a man in basketball, golf, boxing, MMA, fake wrestling, or anything else but because they deserve this place.
Which in the storyline, this caused even more emotional dispair between the two, Ric Flair and Carlito. Women can be a huge gateway to emotion. But thats not what bothers me about this match, I would like to say, I hate the way Torrie acted in this match. She acted like she was a poor defenseless little housewife, who could do nothing to big mean Carlito. What if she faught him? What if they went toe to toe. Eliminate the factor that all men are bullies to women once they get in the ring, and a woman could easily have a legitimate fight with a man in the squared circle.
Well, isn't that the point to all montor/mentee type relationships? Once it breaks off, the mentee finnally tries to prove his worth, often turning him evil.
I said my opinion on this above.
Incorrect, this to me shows that Carlito was slime during the time. Had the WWE only been smart and aloud them to wrestle, the story would be entirely diffrent. This would make Carlito gain shittons of heat, and allow Torrie to look much stronger in the long run.
Seeing as how Cena is a 250 pound muscular beast, and Maryse is 120 pounds soaking wet, this act wouldn't/shouldn't happen. To use this in our debate is absurd, once again take away the bully factor that all men are better than women, and any man that gets defeated by a woman is extremely weak, then it becomes nothing. Simply a woman fighting a man. What if Kong wrestled Cena, they're the same realitive size, Kong's bigger of couse, Kong shows MMA skills, and I could legitimately see her defeating John Cena, without Cena looking weak, if the WWE strives to eliminate the sexist fact that all men are better than women, of course.
This shows nothing to the public. It garnared heat for Carlito, and sympathy for Torrie, causing great emotional distress for Ric Flair to face his former trainee.
It also eliminates the fact that all men are better than women factor. Granted the average female is no where near as physical, or rough as the average male. The fact that some are, shouldn't be a problem in the real world. I don't think this will cause the rates of any boys beating on girls at the playground. My mother is a Kindergarden teacher, and quite obviously works with Kindergardners, they show no emotions between eachother, outside of the whole "Gross boys have cooties" and vise versa.
It was getting stale.
In this sense, it helped Chyna become a believable Interconinental champion. Which was the point in the storyline anyways. Not only did it do this, but it also elevated the logic behind Chyna being Triple H's bodyguard.
Women should be facing men in the ring. They're just as good if not better than women in anything they do, they can preform in the ring just like any other man. The WWE should be a gateway for all women around the world. All sports should/could be intergendered because again, women are just as good as men. Its sexist to believe otherwise.
Now then, as everyone should allready know, I chose am on the pro side for why women should be able to wrestling men, and I have a mere 3 reasons why. Women are just as good as men, women can be better than men, and its sexiest to believe otherwise.
Women are just as good as men. How can I prove such a thing? Well, a lot of people seem to miss the fact that women in general are more agile, and more flexible than men are. This makes for great opportunity for any female force to be able to colide with the likes of any cruiserweight.
Just take a look at a woman named Sarita. Her highflying abilities match that of any man I have ever seen. Why should it be wrong for her to go toe to toe with the likes of someone like Rey Mysterio, Evan Bourne, AJ Styles, etc? Exactly, theres nothing wrong with it.
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[youtube]BvW_q8_MX6E[/youtube]
That man is a 180 pound man, going against a woman. Thus I say, women can preform with men.
Women can be better than men. I think this is proven all throughout time, and with the exsistance of women like Layla Ali, The Venus Sisters, Jackie Joyner, Nancy Lopez, Manon Rheaume. I'll go one in the next post, if you really want me to. Each of these women brought something to their sport and revolutionized the way things were done. Theres no denying that a women inside of a fake sport, can't do the same. Whether they're facing men or not. Women have the abilities to do the same thing men can, even in a mans world.
Furthermore, I say its sexist to believe otherwise. Women have been fighting for their rights in history all through out time. Some of the greatest writers ever, stole their material from their wives. Now, finnally when the pedistool between men and women can be shared, I find that a woman, and a man can clearly work together, and can even be a door for the best women, going into the WNBA, or the best women, going in the PGA. Why shouldn't we the fans accept this fact, and the WWE accept this fact, and become the gateway for all women all around the world, to finnally be seen as equals to men. Not only because its sexiest to think a woman can't go toe to toe with a man in basketball, golf, boxing, MMA, fake wrestling, or anything else but because they deserve this place.
RazorBack said:
Which in the storyline, this caused even more emotional dispair between the two, Ric Flair and Carlito. Women can be a huge gateway to emotion. But thats not what bothers me about this match, I would like to say, I hate the way Torrie acted in this match. She acted like she was a poor defenseless little housewife, who could do nothing to big mean Carlito. What if she faught him? What if they went toe to toe. Eliminate the factor that all men are bullies to women once they get in the ring, and a woman could easily have a legitimate fight with a man in the squared circle.
Well, isn't that the point to all montor/mentee type relationships? Once it breaks off, the mentee finnally tries to prove his worth, often turning him evil.
I said my opinion on this above.
Incorrect, this to me shows that Carlito was slime during the time. Had the WWE only been smart and aloud them to wrestle, the story would be entirely diffrent. This would make Carlito gain shittons of heat, and allow Torrie to look much stronger in the long run.
Seeing as how Cena is a 250 pound muscular beast, and Maryse is 120 pounds soaking wet, this act wouldn't/shouldn't happen. To use this in our debate is absurd, once again take away the bully factor that all men are better than women, and any man that gets defeated by a woman is extremely weak, then it becomes nothing. Simply a woman fighting a man. What if Kong wrestled Cena, they're the same realitive size, Kong's bigger of couse, Kong shows MMA skills, and I could legitimately see her defeating John Cena, without Cena looking weak, if the WWE strives to eliminate the sexist fact that all men are better than women, of course.
This shows nothing to the public. It garnared heat for Carlito, and sympathy for Torrie, causing great emotional distress for Ric Flair to face his former trainee.
It also eliminates the fact that all men are better than women factor. Granted the average female is no where near as physical, or rough as the average male. The fact that some are, shouldn't be a problem in the real world. I don't think this will cause the rates of any boys beating on girls at the playground. My mother is a Kindergarden teacher, and quite obviously works with Kindergardners, they show no emotions between eachother, outside of the whole "Gross boys have cooties" and vise versa.
It was getting stale.
In this sense, it helped Chyna become a believable Interconinental champion. Which was the point in the storyline anyways. Not only did it do this, but it also elevated the logic behind Chyna being Triple H's bodyguard.
Women should be facing men in the ring. They're just as good if not better than women in anything they do, they can preform in the ring just like any other man. The WWE should be a gateway for all women around the world. All sports should/could be intergendered because again, women are just as good as men. Its sexist to believe otherwise.
Oh, that's right. I forgot to say good luck and all that jazz. Well, I'm saying it now. This debate has really kicked off, and for that I'm glad. We're not letting either one walk away with the first round victory.
Are those in WCW and I just missed it? No? That's the problem. You can pick matches from the independent circuit all you want to, but those aren't the type of matches that will be presented by the WWE. The WWE will present the violence against women as lopsided in the direction of the man, and that is what is being judged here. A few matches in a Mexican promotion does not the entire wrestling industry make.
Who has stolen their best material from their wives? Shakespeare? I don't think so.
She couldn't have fought him. That's the problem. WWE is an outlet for everyday life, with the wrestlers being shown as larger than life characters that are rooted in some sort of reality. What kind of reality has Tori, a 100 pound soaking wet woman, fighting and actually beating Carlito? She isn't Chyna.
Yes...I never said it was. I was just offering a bit of background for the match.
I disagree. It showed that a heel can hit a woman if he's mad. Carlito just did what heels have been doing throughout the time of the WWE, and that's hitting the woman that pisses them off.
And I fail to see how a match between Tori and Carlito in which Tori won would have been half realistic.
That doesn't take away from the fact that it would be frightening.
Not at all. This debate isn't "Should men face women realistically." It's "should men face women in the ring?" And I took it to mean as the WWE presents the battle. Lopsided, in the favor of the male. Except for the anomaly that is Chyna.
That's the only reason men ever fight women in the WWE though. It always has a bully factor, it's always worked to where the woman buckles in 5 seconds. Unless it's Chyna, or it's a comedy match. Ala Santino and Beth.
1) In the WWE, Cena would murder Kong.
2) I fail to see how it is sexist to have men who are 250 pounds of muscle going over the likes of women who are what, half their size? Kong could be presented as a legit threat the crowd take it seriously, but kayfabe wise, who is going to believe that? Who would believe Carlito and Tori wrestling and Tori legit beating him? Cena and Beth Phoenix? Orton and Gail Kim? Even the strongest of the Divas and more than half of the Women's Division in TNA are only what, half the size of the men on the roster? There is no way you can present the women as winning, especially in this day and age where women are routinely (sad, but true) beaten by men twice their size.
How did they garner this heat? The crowd felt bad for Torrie after a man beat her because he was mad, and they cheered for the man who would protect her from the big bad man. That means there must have been a margin of truth to the actions Carlito took.
When I look at Cena vs. the entire women's roster..I can one man being stronger and faster than the entire women's roster. And there is no problem being realistic. Cena is simply faster and stronger. Having a woman go over him would make no sense.
That goes for the WWE roster as well. A woman half the size of Carlito going over him would make no sense at all.
Police are routinely called in for domestic disputes in which the man is beating a woman. It's sad, it's horrible, but it's common knowledge. It's not sexist to understand that most women can not stand up to a man who gets angry and feels like punching her. That's why we have all of these handy dandy morals in society that tell me not to punch a girl. Because the girl, most likely, couldn't do anything in retaliation.
Have you ever seen a group of elementary boys after watching wrestling? When I was 10 years old all we did was say "Suck it!" or do the weird Diamond Dallas Page Diamondcutter thing with our hands. Oh, and Steve Austin and The Rock. We would do the People's Eyebrow and act like we were giving people the Stunner. Our favorite wrestlers rub off on us more than you seem to want to believe.
Just like Cena/Orton, which we haven't seen since 18 months ago, huh?
Yeah, but where did she go from there? Gone from the company in less than a year? As soon as she lost that IC title she was given a Women's Championship and dumped soon after. What a career, huh?
It lent legitimacy to that for how long...while she was the IC champion? So, what? 4 months? 3? After that she was immediately dumped to Eddie Guerrero. What a bodyguard.
Not the women I've been seeing in the WWE.
They realistically go over a man twice their size? Which is probably literally the ratio between WWE Women's wrestler and any male wrestler on the WWE roster.
That will never happen, and you know it. Men will never compete amongst women in the NBA or NFL. You might get it in the PGA, if those old dudes wouldn't be so pissy about it. You're arguing an extreme that will never be reached.
No...it's realistic. You have Gail Kim go over Cena in a match. Go ahead. Even though she's half his size, you seem to think it'd be okay because as long as they acted competitive, people would believe it. But no one would. We're surrounded by violence against women everyday where men the size of Cena beat women the size of Gail Kim or Kelly Kelly or Mickie James or Maryse up. It's sad, but it's true. And this very truth is what makes a woman half the size of a man winning in a fake competition that is supposed to be about strength and out-lasting your opponent unbelievable.
Now, if you confronted the WWE with an entire roster of Chynas or Kongs, then we'd have a point to jump off from.
Are those in WCW and I just missed it? No? That's the problem. You can pick matches from the independent circuit all you want to, but those aren't the type of matches that will be presented by the WWE. The WWE will present the violence against women as lopsided in the direction of the man, and that is what is being judged here. A few matches in a Mexican promotion does not the entire wrestling industry make.
Who has stolen their best material from their wives? Shakespeare? I don't think so.
She couldn't have fought him. That's the problem. WWE is an outlet for everyday life, with the wrestlers being shown as larger than life characters that are rooted in some sort of reality. What kind of reality has Tori, a 100 pound soaking wet woman, fighting and actually beating Carlito? She isn't Chyna.
Yes...I never said it was. I was just offering a bit of background for the match.
.
I disagree. It showed that a heel can hit a woman if he's mad. Carlito just did what heels have been doing throughout the time of the WWE, and that's hitting the woman that pisses them off.
And I fail to see how a match between Tori and Carlito in which Tori won would have been half realistic.
That doesn't take away from the fact that it would be frightening.
Not at all. This debate isn't "Should men face women realistically." It's "should men face women in the ring?" And I took it to mean as the WWE presents the battle. Lopsided, in the favor of the male. Except for the anomaly that is Chyna.
That's the only reason men ever fight women in the WWE though. It always has a bully factor, it's always worked to where the woman buckles in 5 seconds. Unless it's Chyna, or it's a comedy match. Ala Santino and Beth.
1) In the WWE, Cena would murder Kong.
2) I fail to see how it is sexist to have men who are 250 pounds of muscle going over the likes of women who are what, half their size? Kong could be presented as a legit threat the crowd take it seriously, but kayfabe wise, who is going to believe that? Who would believe Carlito and Tori wrestling and Tori legit beating him? Cena and Beth Phoenix? Orton and Gail Kim? Even the strongest of the Divas and more than half of the Women's Division in TNA are only what, half the size of the men on the roster? There is no way you can present the women as winning, especially in this day and age where women are routinely (sad, but true) beaten by men twice their size.
How did they garner this heat? The crowd felt bad for Torrie after a man beat her because he was mad, and they cheered for the man who would protect her from the big bad man. That means there must have been a margin of truth to the actions Carlito took.
When I look at Cena vs. the entire women's roster..I can one man being stronger and faster than the entire women's roster. And there is no problem being realistic. Cena is simply faster and stronger. Having a woman go over him would make no sense.
That goes for the WWE roster as well. A woman half the size of Carlito going over him would make no sense at all.
Police are routinely called in for domestic disputes in which the man is beating a woman. It's sad, it's horrible, but it's common knowledge. It's not sexist to understand that most women can not stand up to a man who gets angry and feels like punching her. That's why we have all of these handy dandy morals in society that tell me not to punch a girl. Because the girl, most likely, couldn't do anything in retaliation.
Have you ever seen a group of elementary boys after watching wrestling? When I was 10 years old all we did was say "Suck it!" or do the weird Diamond Dallas Page Diamondcutter thing with our hands. Oh, and Steve Austin and The Rock. We would do the People's Eyebrow and act like we were giving people the Stunner. Our favorite wrestlers rub off on us more than you seem to want to believe.
Just like Cena/Orton, which we haven't seen since 18 months ago, huh?
Yeah, but where did she go from there? Gone from the company in less than a year? As soon as she lost that IC title she was given a Women's Championship and dumped soon after. What a career, huh?
It lent legitimacy to that for how long...while she was the IC champion? So, what? 4 months? 3? After that she was immediately dumped to Eddie Guerrero. What a bodyguard.
Not the women I've been seeing in the WWE.
They realistically go over a man twice their size? Which is probably literally the ratio between WWE Women's wrestler and any male wrestler on the WWE roster.
That will never happen, and you know it. Men will never compete amongst women in the NBA or NFL. You might get it in the PGA, if those old dudes wouldn't be so pissy about it. You're arguing an extreme that will never be reached.
No...it's realistic. You have Gail Kim go over Cena in a match. Go ahead. Even though she's half his size, you seem to think it'd be okay because as long as they acted competitive, people would believe it. But no one would. We're surrounded by violence against women everyday where men the size of Cena beat women the size of Gail Kim or Kelly Kelly or Mickie James or Maryse up. It's sad, but it's true. And this very truth is what makes a woman half the size of a man winning in a fake competition that is supposed to be about strength and out-lasting your opponent unbelievable.
Now, if you confronted the WWE with an entire roster of Chynas or Kongs, then we'd have a point to jump off from.
I'm sorry Razorback but I think you highly misunderstood the point to my entire post. Which really makes no sense, as it was fairly clear, and very few people that I've talked to missunderstood as much as you did. Allow me, to help you.
Obviously not, but to see something like Sarita do the thigns she does, doesn't mean she couldn't do it in WcW or WWE. Heres the thing, the question wasn't asked "Do you think that women should be able to face men in the WWE" it was "Should men ever face women in the ring?" So your point is irrelevant.
Once again, we're not exclude to the WWE only in this debate.
Which I said "Eliminate the factor that all men are bullies to women once they get in the ring, and a woman could easily have a legitimate fight with a man in the squared circle. " Did I not?
A few matches in the mexican promotion, does make the entire wrestling industry. Many high flying moves you see today, originated in Mexico. Theres hardly any American made moves. The origins of profesional wrestling are highly developed in countries such as Japan, and Mexico. To proclaim the "Just because its not from America" doesn't mean thats true. That my friend is called elitism. We may have the best promotion in the world, but we sure didn't develop any of the wrestling, whatsoever.
Yes, but if it is portrayed diffrently, just like anything else. This woman should have smacked this man, thus pissing him off. Then something like this should have happened, because we all know, no man, nor women would just sit around and allow this happen in this "reality" you speak of.
No it didn't.
Once again, this garnared very much heat, I hardly see where this says "Men, you can hit your woman when you want to"
Once you do this "Eliminate the factor that all men are bullies to women once they get in the ring, and a woman could easily have a legitimate fight with a man in the squared circle. " everything works just fine.
Which is incorrect, the WWE isn't the only form of wrestling in the world. You elitest.
"Eliminate the factor that all men are bullies to women once they get in the ring, and a woman could easily have a legitimate fight with a man in the squared circle. " Do I REALLY need to say it again?
I guess I do...."Eliminate the factor that all men are bullies to women once they get in the ring, and a woman could easily have a legitimate fight with a man in the squared circle. "
But the WWE isn't the only form of wrestling in the world.
How many times do you need to be told this?
To have Kong go agaisnt Cena? Yeah, thats pretty overboard. But someone like Carlito? Rey Mysterio? Swagger? Bourne? She sure made it believable that she went over this guy.
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Granted there was a lowblow, thats always a weakness men will have over women.
Who wouldn't believe Kong vs anyone of these men? Cena could be the only one pushing it, but thats because hes the face of the company.
You make it sound like Kong is the only woman in the world her size. They don't have to look like godesses, by any means.
I don't think I need to say the quote, I've allready said 3-4 times again, do I?
I have no clue what you just said.
I'd bet my wife John Cena couldn't beat this woman.
Cena is bigger than her, how is that unrealistic that a woman such a Kong could defeat her, a woman that is bigger than him?
But its not unbelievable that a woman larger than life can take on a man, larger than life, now is it?
Congrats, even a 10 year old understands "Do not hit girls" you were doing it to eachother, not the between the boys and the girls.
I know how much our favorite wrestlers rub off on us. But I'm telling you right now, theres a line that even a 5 year old will draw. They know those women are trained professionals, and that its not just going on as beating a woman. You eliminate the factor that its just some big bad wolf, picking on the little bitty pigs...then you can have a wrestling match. Whether or not this person has a penis, vagina, or boobs. Shouldn't matter.
What the heck does this have to do with anything?
Chyna left the company on her own terms. You act as if the company released her.
She was a great body guard, and got involved in matches in the correct spots. Making it believable that she could do anything. Watch the KOTR Triple H won. That had a lot to do with Chyna.
Once agian, were not confined to the WWE only.
Once agian, were not confined to the WWE only.
Nothing is impossible, by any means necassary. Women have done great things in this world, to say that are enable to compete with a man, in a fake sport, or even a real sport is stupid.
Have someone like Kong go over him, it doesn't even have to be clean. It can be realistic, with the proper buildup that she is a worthy contender for the title.
Why is this impossible to achieve? You act as if I said "Divas divas divas" I shoved Kong, Chyna, and Sarita down your throat, not anyone else.
Obviously not, but to see something like Sarita do the thigns she does, doesn't mean she couldn't do it in WcW or WWE. Heres the thing, the question wasn't asked "Do you think that women should be able to face men in the WWE" it was "Should men ever face women in the ring?" So your point is irrelevant.
Once again, we're not exclude to the WWE only in this debate.
Which I said "Eliminate the factor that all men are bullies to women once they get in the ring, and a woman could easily have a legitimate fight with a man in the squared circle. " Did I not?
A few matches in the mexican promotion, does make the entire wrestling industry. Many high flying moves you see today, originated in Mexico. Theres hardly any American made moves. The origins of profesional wrestling are highly developed in countries such as Japan, and Mexico. To proclaim the "Just because its not from America" doesn't mean thats true. That my friend is called elitism. We may have the best promotion in the world, but we sure didn't develop any of the wrestling, whatsoever.
Yes, but if it is portrayed diffrently, just like anything else. This woman should have smacked this man, thus pissing him off. Then something like this should have happened, because we all know, no man, nor women would just sit around and allow this happen in this "reality" you speak of.
[youtube]Cy7-TNWyQQU[/youtube]
No it didn't.
Once again, this garnared very much heat, I hardly see where this says "Men, you can hit your woman when you want to"
Once you do this "Eliminate the factor that all men are bullies to women once they get in the ring, and a woman could easily have a legitimate fight with a man in the squared circle. " everything works just fine.
Which is incorrect, the WWE isn't the only form of wrestling in the world. You elitest.
"Eliminate the factor that all men are bullies to women once they get in the ring, and a woman could easily have a legitimate fight with a man in the squared circle. " Do I REALLY need to say it again?
I guess I do...."Eliminate the factor that all men are bullies to women once they get in the ring, and a woman could easily have a legitimate fight with a man in the squared circle. "
But the WWE isn't the only form of wrestling in the world.
How many times do you need to be told this?To have Kong go agaisnt Cena? Yeah, thats pretty overboard. But someone like Carlito? Rey Mysterio? Swagger? Bourne? She sure made it believable that she went over this guy.
[youtube]BYFnp0xTBu8[/youtube]
Granted there was a lowblow, thats always a weakness men will have over women.
Who wouldn't believe Kong vs anyone of these men? Cena could be the only one pushing it, but thats because hes the face of the company.
You make it sound like Kong is the only woman in the world her size. They don't have to look like godesses, by any means.
I don't think I need to say the quote, I've allready said 3-4 times again, do I?
I have no clue what you just said.
I'd bet my wife John Cena couldn't beat this woman.
Cena is bigger than her, how is that unrealistic that a woman such a Kong could defeat her, a woman that is bigger than him?
But its not unbelievable that a woman larger than life can take on a man, larger than life, now is it?
Congrats, even a 10 year old understands "Do not hit girls" you were doing it to eachother, not the between the boys and the girls.
I know how much our favorite wrestlers rub off on us. But I'm telling you right now, theres a line that even a 5 year old will draw. They know those women are trained professionals, and that its not just going on as beating a woman. You eliminate the factor that its just some big bad wolf, picking on the little bitty pigs...then you can have a wrestling match. Whether or not this person has a penis, vagina, or boobs. Shouldn't matter.
What the heck does this have to do with anything?
Chyna left the company on her own terms. You act as if the company released her.
She was a great body guard, and got involved in matches in the correct spots. Making it believable that she could do anything. Watch the KOTR Triple H won. That had a lot to do with Chyna.
Once agian, were not confined to the WWE only.
Once agian, were not confined to the WWE only.
Nothing is impossible, by any means necassary. Women have done great things in this world, to say that are enable to compete with a man, in a fake sport, or even a real sport is stupid.
Have someone like Kong go over him, it doesn't even have to be clean. It can be realistic, with the proper buildup that she is a worthy contender for the title.
Why is this impossible to achieve? You act as if I said "Divas divas divas" I shoved Kong, Chyna, and Sarita down your throat, not anyone else.
Well the first debate where there were actually two people involved. Both of these men I were happy to see in the debates. Milk is often given a hard time, but really, he has shown he is a good poster, and this debate shows it. Razorback is often talked about, and he did go on a great posting spree. Lets see how this goes down between the judges.
Clarity of debate- 1 point
Milk- You did good, but there were some problems. some spelling/grammar issues arose, as well as swaying the points to much. great information down, just needed to be kept in line a little more.
Razorback- well written posts, the advantage of a post secondary education, but there were minor issues with the layouts that I did not care for. Nonetheless, Razorback receives this point.
Punctuality- 1 point
Milk- You were always on time, so I cannot fault you here however
Razor- you seem to have missed the second half of the game. point goes to Milk
Informative- 1 point
Milk- Fantastic job here. As I never limited to WWE, I had expected that TNA would be brought up. but to bring up CMLL, just shows you went the extra mile here.
Razorback- you seemed to have left it at WWE. great points for WWE, but there was so much more you could have went into. I award the point to Milk.
Emotionality- 1 point
Some great emotion put forth here. I like that in a debate. Unfortunately the debate was cut back, because if not, I would love to see where Razorback went with it. Milk served it up, and gets himself another point.
Persuasion- 1 point
Milk's three points in the beginning, and his expansion of them were fantastic. Razorback had a good pairing of of information, but he was beat by the Entente Milk laid down. Maybe others will disagree here, but Milk gets my point again.
Clarity of debate- 1 point
Razorback
Punctuality- 1 point
Milk
Informative- 1 point
Milk
Emotionality- 1 point
Milk
Persuasion- 1 point
Milk
TM rates this 4 points Milk to 1 points Razorback.
Clarity of debate- 1 point
Milk- You did good, but there were some problems. some spelling/grammar issues arose, as well as swaying the points to much. great information down, just needed to be kept in line a little more.
Razorback- well written posts, the advantage of a post secondary education, but there were minor issues with the layouts that I did not care for. Nonetheless, Razorback receives this point.
Punctuality- 1 point
Milk- You were always on time, so I cannot fault you here however
Razor- you seem to have missed the second half of the game. point goes to Milk
Informative- 1 point
Milk- Fantastic job here. As I never limited to WWE, I had expected that TNA would be brought up. but to bring up CMLL, just shows you went the extra mile here.
Razorback- you seemed to have left it at WWE. great points for WWE, but there was so much more you could have went into. I award the point to Milk.
Emotionality- 1 point
Some great emotion put forth here. I like that in a debate. Unfortunately the debate was cut back, because if not, I would love to see where Razorback went with it. Milk served it up, and gets himself another point.
Persuasion- 1 point
Milk's three points in the beginning, and his expansion of them were fantastic. Razorback had a good pairing of of information, but he was beat by the Entente Milk laid down. Maybe others will disagree here, but Milk gets my point again.
Clarity of debate- 1 point
Razorback
Punctuality- 1 point
Milk
Informative- 1 point
Milk
Emotionality- 1 point
Milk
Persuasion- 1 point
Milk
TM rates this 4 points Milk to 1 points Razorback.
Cena's Little Helper
Mid-Card Championship Winner
Clarity Of Debate: Milkway!, make sure to check your posts before you submit them, or, go back and edit them once you have submitted them. I liked you argument, but misspelling loses you the point here.
Point: Razorback
Punctuality: Both of you were on time, but, I've been told not to split points. Milkway!, you were always on top of things, responding quickly to any post Razorback made.
Point: Milkyway!
Informative: Razorback, although I agree with you that, in general, women are physically weaker than men, there are exceptions. And, although you mentioned Beth Phoenix and Chyna, you tried to pass off WWE capitalizing on their capabilities to hang with the men's division as a poor business decision in both instances. But, the fact remains that there are some women in the wrestling world that are more than able to compete with men. Milkyway!, I liked that you brought in Sarah Stock, but, there's a big difference between the heavyweight and cruiserweight divisions in American professional wrestling. I would have liked it if you would have touched on this more, but, you nonetheless did a good job.
Point: Milkyway!
Emotionality: Milkway!, although some of the support for your argument was suspect, all of it could be taken away and your argument would still stand. Furthermore, it seemed like you really believed in what you were talking about.
Point: Milkway!
Persuasion: Both of you were very persuasive, but for different reasons. For the most part Razorback, you went to verifiable sources and constructed a well-presented argument. On the other hand, Milkyway!, it seemed to me like you were passionate about what you said, and your charisma in this instance made me, for the most part, overlook your grammatical mistakes. Since I can't split points, I won't award any here.
Point: N/A
tdigle's Score
Milkyway!: 3
Razorback: 1
Point: Razorback
Punctuality: Both of you were on time, but, I've been told not to split points. Milkway!, you were always on top of things, responding quickly to any post Razorback made.
Point: Milkyway!
Informative: Razorback, although I agree with you that, in general, women are physically weaker than men, there are exceptions. And, although you mentioned Beth Phoenix and Chyna, you tried to pass off WWE capitalizing on their capabilities to hang with the men's division as a poor business decision in both instances. But, the fact remains that there are some women in the wrestling world that are more than able to compete with men. Milkyway!, I liked that you brought in Sarah Stock, but, there's a big difference between the heavyweight and cruiserweight divisions in American professional wrestling. I would have liked it if you would have touched on this more, but, you nonetheless did a good job.
Point: Milkyway!
Emotionality: Milkway!, although some of the support for your argument was suspect, all of it could be taken away and your argument would still stand. Furthermore, it seemed like you really believed in what you were talking about.
Point: Milkway!
Persuasion: Both of you were very persuasive, but for different reasons. For the most part Razorback, you went to verifiable sources and constructed a well-presented argument. On the other hand, Milkyway!, it seemed to me like you were passionate about what you said, and your charisma in this instance made me, for the most part, overlook your grammatical mistakes. Since I can't split points, I won't award any here.
Point: N/A
tdigle's Score
Milkyway!: 3
Razorback: 1
Luther_Hull
Cunt.
Clarity Of Debate: Razorback's was the most well set out and the easier of the two to read. He gets the point.
Punctuality: We can't split points? News to me. Neither gets a point then as both were punctual.
Informative: Both were very informative and brought a lot of information to the table, although here I'm going to have to go with Razorback, as I thought his info was more relevant to the debate.
Emotionality: Out of the two, I felt Milkyway! believed more in what he was saying, even as going as far as to pick the harder of the two sides.
Persuasion: At the end of the debate Razorback had done enough to sway me to his side of the debate, admittedly it was the easier side of the debate, but I feel he did the best job in persuading me.
Razorback 3 - 1 Milkyway!
Punctuality: We can't split points? News to me. Neither gets a point then as both were punctual.
Informative: Both were very informative and brought a lot of information to the table, although here I'm going to have to go with Razorback, as I thought his info was more relevant to the debate.
Emotionality: Out of the two, I felt Milkyway! believed more in what he was saying, even as going as far as to pick the harder of the two sides.
Persuasion: At the end of the debate Razorback had done enough to sway me to his side of the debate, admittedly it was the easier side of the debate, but I feel he did the best job in persuading me.
Razorback 3 - 1 Milkyway!
Bernkastel
Reaper of Miracles
Clarity Of Argument: Both debates were well written, I didn’t see many problems with grammar or spelling from either side
Point: Razorback and Milkyway
Punctuality: Both were on time and met the deadlines
Point: Razorback and Milkyway
Informative: Both arguments seemed rather simple to me, I was hoping for a more in depth debate rather than just sexism vs morals and values. If I had to choose a winner for this category, I’d choose Razorback, his argument just inches it for me.
Point: Razorback
Emotionality: both arguments started out strong but both seemed to lose momentum towards the end.
Point: I think I’ll null this point
Persuasion: If I were a fence sitter on this topic I gravitate more towards Razorback’s argument, his points were more relevant and better prepared. Milkyway had several opportunities to crack the debate open wide but he just never capitalized on them.
Point: Razorback
Echelon’s rating
Razorback: 3 points
Milkyway: 1 point
Point: Razorback and Milkyway
Punctuality: Both were on time and met the deadlines
Point: Razorback and Milkyway
Informative: Both arguments seemed rather simple to me, I was hoping for a more in depth debate rather than just sexism vs morals and values. If I had to choose a winner for this category, I’d choose Razorback, his argument just inches it for me.
Point: Razorback
Emotionality: both arguments started out strong but both seemed to lose momentum towards the end.
Point: I think I’ll null this point
Persuasion: If I were a fence sitter on this topic I gravitate more towards Razorback’s argument, his points were more relevant and better prepared. Milkyway had several opportunities to crack the debate open wide but he just never capitalized on them.
Point: Razorback
Echelon’s rating
Razorback: 3 points
Milkyway: 1 point
Clarity of debate- 1 point
They were well written to an extent, but I found myself reading over some of Milk's work.
Point Razorback
Punctuality- 1 point
Both on time. No one gets the point
Informative- 1 point
Milk went the extra mile and used different federations and he hardly used the main two. Razorback, you just used the E. Therefore point goes to Milk
Point Milk
Emotionality- 1 point
Both started strong but I believe Milk was more emotional. He actually agreed with what he was typing. It seemed to me that he wasn't just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Point Milk
Persuasion- 1 point
Razorback had the easier side to defend, but Milk did nothing to persuade me. Therefore I give the point to Razorback
Point Razorback
Milk - 2 points
Razorback - 2 points
They were well written to an extent, but I found myself reading over some of Milk's work.
Point Razorback
Punctuality- 1 point
Both on time. No one gets the point
Informative- 1 point
Milk went the extra mile and used different federations and he hardly used the main two. Razorback, you just used the E. Therefore point goes to Milk
Point Milk
Emotionality- 1 point
Both started strong but I believe Milk was more emotional. He actually agreed with what he was typing. It seemed to me that he wasn't just arguing for the sake of arguing.
Point Milk
Persuasion- 1 point
Razorback had the easier side to defend, but Milk did nothing to persuade me. Therefore I give the point to Razorback
Point Razorback
Milk - 2 points
Razorback - 2 points
