We Suck Vince: Or, Why #GiveDivasAChance Is Largely Bullshit

[Con T.]

Seriously, we really couldn't have thought of a more concise way to point to the obvious sexism in WWE?

Let's preface this conversation by just saying that this thread doesn't condone the rampant sexism one is likely to find in WWE. In all honesty, the whole twitter "movement" has done a little good. Now, #GiveDivasAChance doesn't even come close to addressing the main issues that makes WWE so sexist (those issues can be found here. At least, a decent amount of them.) That said, they've at least given the women a chance to work longer matches. Now, longer matches doesn't necessarily mean equal, not in the slightest. Having longer matches is essentially window dressing for the larger issues at play. But cool, longer matches, sweet.

But it kinda weakens the point of having longer matches when shit like this happens...

WWE Divas were subjected to a string of sexually suggestive chants at the Raw taping in San Jose the night after WrestleMania.
Paige, AJ Lee and Naomi were taking on Natalya and The Bella Twins. During the match, the crowd chanted “You suck Cena” at Nikki Bella. They followed up with “You suck Bryan” at Brie Bella, “You suck Tyson” at Natalya, and “You suck Uso” at Naomi. There were also reports that some fans chanted “You suck Punk” at AJ Lee.

My...how fucking charming.

I'm sure the rational human being will understand why this behavior is so god damn repulsive, so yes, most of us get this is a very vocal, very dumb minority, not unlike the Gamer Gate movement.

Natalya vs Naomi vs Nikki Bella. Winner sits on my face. #Givedivasachance

The bellas suck in similar fashion to cena sucks chant lol

...Or, some of us are neanderthals. This was probably the worst of the live discussion this week, but I'm sure I could have combed through the entire thread and seen worse. For the record, no, the Bella sucks chants are very different from the Cena sucks chants, and plenty more revolting. I won't bother using the posts regarding Naomi using her ass to win, because...well, she did. But that, in and of itself, is a major issue, too. What I'm getting at people, is that the #GiveDivasAChance meme (I'm not calling it a movement. Anything that happens on twitter is not a fucking movement. It's a meme, at this point. A joke.) is bullshit.

It's bullshit, because even though Divas are getting more ring time, the fans are still using the Divas' gender and sexuality to classify and mock them.

Do you really believe the fans that started those chants aren't members of the IWC? The very same IWC that started this whole #GiveDivasAChance bullshit, anyway? That post-Wrestlemania crowd, largely, is the IWC. And what the IWC told you, in this instance, is that we're not going to allow these women to be defined by anything other than their bodies, and the men we sleep with.

Sure, Cena gets "Cena sucks" chants. They're not one and the same, and you're being purposely dense if you say otherwise. Cena's never had it chanted at him about who's he sleeping with... No "You fuck Nikki" chant to be found.

The "Cena sucks" chant is done to tell John Cena that he's no good at professional wrestling (which is stupid, but besides the point). "You suck Cena" was done specifically to shame Nikki for her sex life, and identify her by who she fucks. One's clearly more fucked than the other.

I'm not saying there isn't a place in the world for #GiveDivasAChance. But unless we, as a whole, learn to stop identifying women by:

• Their Gender
• Their Sexuality
• Their Bodies

Then I consider this "movement" to be utter shit, just another in the long list of the IWC's bitchings of the month (and yes, I totally realize I am a member of the IWC. Why do you think I'm so annoyed by these chants? This only confirms the causal fan's viewpoint of the IWC.) Because, frankly, why should the WWE view their talent as more than objectified sex toys, when their fan base objectifies them like sex toys?

 

[Slyfox696]

Seriously, we really couldn't have thought of a more concise way to point to the obvious sexism in WWE?

Let's preface this conversation by just saying that this thread doesn't condone the rampant sexism one is likely to find in WWE. In all honesty, the whole twitter "movement" has done a little good. Now, #GiveDivasAChance doesn't even come close to addressing the main issues that makes WWE so sexist (those issues can be found here. At least, a decent amount of them.) That said, they've at least given the women a chance to work longer matches. Now, longer matches doesn't necessarily mean equal, not in the slightest. Having longer matches is essentially window dressing for the larger issues at play. But cool, longer matches, sweet.

But it kinda weakens the point of having longer matches when shit like this happens...



My...how fucking charming.

I'm sure the rational human being will understand why this behavior is so god damn repulsive, so yes, most of us get this is a very vocal, very dumb minority, not unlike the Gamer Gate movement.





...Or, some of us are neanderthals. This was probably the worst of the live discussion this week, but I'm sure I could have combed through the entire thread and seen worse. For the record, no, the Bella sucks chants are very different from the Cena sucks chants, and plenty more revolting. I won't bother using the posts regarding Naomi using her ass to win, because...well, she did. But that, in and of itself, is a major issue, too. What I'm getting at people, is that the #GiveDivasAChance meme (I'm not calling it a movement. Anything that happens on twitter is not a fucking movement. It's a meme, at this point. A joke.) is bullshit.

It's bullshit, because even though Divas are getting more ring time, the fans are still using the Divas' gender and sexuality to classify and mock them.

Do you really believe the fans that started those chants aren't members of the IWC? The very same IWC that started this whole #GiveDivasAChance bullshit, anyway? That post-Wrestlemania crowd, largely, is the IWC. And what the IWC told you, in this instance, is that we're not going to allow these women to be defined by anything other than their bodies, and the men we sleep with.

Sure, Cena gets "Cena sucks" chants. They're not one and the same, and you're being purposely dense if you say otherwise. Cena's never had it chanted at him about who's he sleeping with... No "You fuck Nikki" chant to be found.

The "Cena sucks" chant is done to tell John Cena that he's no good at professional wrestling (which is stupid, but besides the point). "You suck Cena" was done specifically to shame Nikki for her sex life, and identify her by who she fucks. One's clearly more fucked than the other.

I'm not saying there isn't a place in the world for #GiveDivasAChance. But unless we, as a whole, learn to stop identifying women by:

• Their Gender
• Their Sexuality
• Their Bodies

Then I consider this "movement" to be utter shit, just another in the long list of the IWC's bitchings of the month (and yes, I totally realize I am a member of the IWC. Why do you think I'm so annoyed by these chants? This only confirms the causal fan's viewpoint of the IWC.) Because, frankly, why should the WWE view their talent as more than objectified sex toys, when their fan base objectifies them like sex toys?

I'm trying to give a damn about this, but when you have a show like Total Divas where they are constantly discussing their sex life and some of them talk about how much they do it (and how they do it), it's kind of hard to be outraged.

And, just to be clear, if John Cena was regularly talking about his sex on TV, then I'd have no problem with "you lick Nikki".

I see the point you're trying to make, but it's hard for me to be too upset when they talk about it all the time.

 

[Fire Marshall Bill]

I'm not nearly as versed on the topic as you are, so I'm just going to touch on a few points.

First off, I'm shocked you're surprised by the attitude of much of the IWC. It's teeming with hypocrisy and hyperbole. Every Roman Reigns thread right now is a glaring example.

Second, while I don't disagree that WWE is ripe with stereotypes (for women that would be read: sexism) for all characters, my understanding of GiveDivasAChance is that it was based solely around the context of letting the women wrestlers show the fans what they can really do when given real time in the ring. So while I again don't disagree with most of what you said, I don't think it really relates that much to the fad they started on twitter. If you want to broaden the meaning of their little fad to all things involving the Diva's, then I guess you're right on.

Though, as I know you know already, not nearly as many people, especially men, are as sensitive about the subject.

 

[Con T.]

I'm trying to give a damn about this, but when you have a show like Total Divas where they are constantly discussing their sex life and some of them talk about how much they do it (and how they do it), it's kind of hard to be outraged.

And, just to be clear, if John Cena was regularly talking about his sex on TV, then I'd have no problem with "you lick Nikki".

I see the point you're trying to make, but it's hard for me to be too upset when they talk about it all the time.

First and foremost, let me just say that I know Total Divas is a "reality show". But if we're being honest, how much would you want to bet most of that is getting scripted? At the very least, the story arcs are scripted. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I wouldn't be shocked in the least to hear that show is about as real as pro wrestling.

And, when put into that context, doesn't that kind of embellish my point?

Also, I just can't buy there's that huge of an overlap of Total Divas watchers, and Raw watchers. Sorry, just can't.

First off, I'm shocked you're surprised by the attitude of much of the IWC. It's teeming with hypocrisy and hyperbole. Every Roman Reigns thread right now is a glaring example.

Not surprised, as much as kinda mortified.

my understanding of GiveDivasAChance is that it was based solely around the context of letting the women wrestlers show the fans what they can really do when given real time in the ring. So while I again don't disagree with most of what you said, I don't think it really relates that much to the fad they started on twitter.

1. I'd argue giving them more ring time isn't actually giving them a chance. Rather, it's a good way to keep up appearances, rather than addressing the real issues at hand.

2. If the crowd is going to be this revolting to the Divas, doesn't it defeat the purpose of having longer matches? Do you think advertisers want to see that chant being performed, for any reason, on the show they run ads for?

 

[OYDK]

It really is a game of irony, isn't it? I remember when the #GiveDivasaChance trend started on Twitter, it was after a very short match on the last Raw of February (I believe). Right after the match was finished, fans took to Twitter to voice their displeasure with almost all tweets mentioning RESPECT and the majority of them blaming Vince McMahon for being a chauvinistic douchebag. Now I'm not here to defend WWE, because the truth is there is obviously rampant sexism, racism, and egotism alive in the WWE, but as pertains to women, Vince has always given the fans what they've wanted, right or wrong. When the crowd wanted to see decent female wrestling, WWE gave them Alundra Blayze. When the crowd wanted to see barely clothed women, they brought in Sable and Sunny. When the fans wanted both, Trish and Lita came into the mix. Now, the fans have been clamoring to see women that can straight up go, and the WWE has been working on giving it to us.

But the post-Mania crowd really shit all over that, and proved that the fans haven't come near as far as we think we have. When it comes down to it, as much as some fans may say they want to see the Divas wrestle a 15 minute match, they don't respect them as competitors. You can see it in the insults directed at The Bellas every day on these forums. Because Nikki dates John Cena and has a good body, she's labelled a "barbie", a ****, and someone who sucked her way to the top. Same goes for Brie. Natalya is probably the best pure women's wrestler on the roster, and she wasn't saved from the hecklers.

Wrestling is cyclical. At the end of the day, the fans can blame Vince McMahon until the day they die, but the man has always given the fans what they wanted... or tried to at least. Ultimately, if the Divas wrestle 5 minute matches for the next 10 years, it will be because the fans, not Vince McMahon, didn't give the Diva's a chance.

 

[Slyfox696]

First and foremost, let me just say that I know Total Divas is a "reality show". But if we're being honest, how much would you want to bet most of that is getting scripted?

Less than pro wrestling?

At the very least, the story arcs are scripted. I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I wouldn't be shocked in the least to hear that show is about as real as pro wrestling.

And, if they are, then the Divas choose to participate in those stories. So if Total Divas and pro wrestling are both scripted stories, why should I be upset if the fans use the stories they present?

And, when put into that context, doesn't that kind of embellish my point?

No, it actually supports mine.

Also, I just can't buy there's that huge of an overlap of Total Divas watchers, and Raw watchers. Sorry, just can't.

Total Divas draws well over 1 million viewers. It's posted on WWE Network.

You may not buy it, but then you'd have to explain how everyone knows Nattie sucks Tyson, Brie sucks Bryan, Nikki sucks Cena and especially how Naomi sucks Usos. Since those things have either very briefly been storylines or non-existent as storylines in the WWE.

 

[Alex]

I'm not saying there isn't a place in the world for #GiveDivasAChance. But unless we, as a whole, learn to stop identifying women by:

• Their Gender
• Their Sexuality
• Their Bodies

You mean the thing that makes women, women??

Look I get it chanting suggestive stuff at AJ etc is a piss take when they're having a match but it's not like they weren't chanting stuff at other people during the night. Yes I get Cena sucks and New Day sucks chants are different to the sucks chants they were shouting at the women but they were being offensive all round. It's like going to a comedy show and not expect some person to be insulted.

Originally Posted by Aeon Mathix View Post
Natalya vs Naomi vs Nikki Bella. Winner sits on my face. #Givedivasachance

Originally Posted by J-Dogg View Post
The bellas suck in similar fashion to cena sucks chant lol

...Or, some of us are neanderthals. This was probably the worst of the live discussion this week, but I'm sure I could have combed through the entire thread and seen worse.

You say stuff like this makes men primitive but what makes it different than when a women says something similar. I know a woman who said something along the lines of Roman Reigns could do whatever he wanted to her 'believe that' and Seth Rollins would be her own personal sex slave so what makes that different to Aeon saying he wanted one of the Divas to sit on his face. Yeah it's not exactly the most refined way of coming across to the opposite sex but it's not like women don't do the same thing.

Human beings objectify whatever their preference is regardless of gender or orientation

Then I consider this "movement" to be utter shit, just another in the long list of the IWC's bitchings of the month (and yes, I totally realize I am a member of the IWC. Why do you think I'm so annoyed by these chants? This only confirms the causal fan's viewpoint of the IWC.) Because, frankly, why should the WWE view their talent as more than objectified sex toys, when their fan base objectifies them like sex toys?

Also didn't the crowd stop chanting CM Punk at AJ Lee and start chanting for her because she's you know good. Also last time I checked the IWC loves NXT, mainly because they always say the NXT division is superior to the Divas and also because there was a massive Bayley chant last night. Also the ones who aren't blinded by TNA hate also like the Knockouts division.

I'd say the Give Divas A Chance movement is more people wanting the Divas to have good storylines and good matches. You want WWE to stop treating their Divas like objects give them compelling storylines and matchea. It works in NXT, it works in TNA. If they let the Diva division have good storylines that don't come across as petty then people will care.

People love Buffy and she's female because of her compelling storylines. They didn't really like Cordelia at the start because Cordelia never really gave people a reason to care until they gave her a compelling storyline. The same rule applies here.

 

[Con T.]

And, if they are, then the Divas choose to participate in those stories. So if Total Divas and pro wrestling are both scripted stories, why should I be upset if the fans use the stories they present?

Full Disclosure: I've watched a total of five or six Total Divas episodes, so I'm not exactly the best source of knowledge here. But do Naomi and Nattie take part in this talk of sex? Because from what I've seen and heard, that largely relates to Nikki and Brie's involvement on the show.

It also doesn't account for AJ, who refuses even casual appearances on Total Divas.

You may not buy it, but then you'd have to explain how everyone knows Nattie sucks Tyson, Brie sucks Bryan, Nikki sucks Cena and especially how Naomi sucks Usos. Since those things have either very briefly been storylines or non-existent as storylines in the WWE.

Probably for the same reason they know AJ sucks Punk?

Again, could it be a case of Total Divas following the divas? Possibly. But I think that minimizes how invasive the IWC can be. Remember how long the Edge/Lita/Matt Hardy saga all played, due in no small part to the IWC? The IWC really likes getting into the personal lives of the wrestlers. I mean, did we really not know that Nikki Bella and John Cena were a couple, before Total Divas was even a thing?

 

[SoulTrain4]

Yeah Give Divas A Chance was some bullshit from jump. It's another one of those things people get behind just to try and antagonize the WWE management and make them look bad (which for some reason the internet loves doing).

Another reason for that hashtag taking off was NXT really putting women's wrestling on a pedestal. In this respect I understand that people want to see the same quality of performances on the main roster but it's not the same product with the same level of in ring talent. The Bellas are pretty much the last remnant of the "model-turned-wrestler-but not taking wrestling seriously" era of the late 90s to mid-10s. We are starting to see an influx of talented women wrestlers who were very well trained and can perform at a high level.

The plight of women's wrestling is all in all just one branch of WWE's all around problem of diversity.

All that said the divas actually benefit in some ways. They don't have the pressure of drawing money in order to get pushed, WWE still heavily uses valets as opposed to male managers to which there are very few if any, along with that women can take breaks from wrestling to be a valet and go back in the ring at will (like Lita, Layla, Naomi etc) which is something we don't see with the men, they have an entire show dedicated to them (Total Divas) and there will be another soon (WWE Diva Search is returning I heard) and finally...they get an obligatory spot on all cards: a divas match had never been bumped to the preshow. Male matches that have been built up over weeks is last minute bumped to the preshow and the divas match which is hardly thoroughly built keeps it's spot on the card. I can't think of a divas match that was ever bumped to the preshow.

So there are pros and cons to all this.

Those ********s chanting at the women are the worst of us wrestling fans, they should have kicked those assholes out, sadly though that will open a different can of worms about censorship and everything.

 

[Con T.]

You mean the thing that makes women, women??

Look I get it chanting suggestive stuff at AJ etc is a piss take when they're having a match but it's not like they weren't chanting stuff at other people during the night. Yes I get Cena sucks and New Day sucks chants are different to the sucks chants they were shouting at the women but they were being offensive all round. It's like going to a comedy show and not expect some person to be insulted.









You say stuff like this makes men primitive but what makes it different than when a women says something similar. I know a woman who said something along the lines of Roman Reigns could do whatever he wanted to her 'believe that' and Seth Rollins would be her own personal sex slave so what makes that different to Aeon saying he wanted one of the Divas to sit on his face. Yeah it's not exactly the most refined way of coming across to the opposite sex but it's not like women don't do the same thing.

Human beings objectify whatever their preference is regardless of gender or orientation

The vast majority of your argument is essentially "women do it, too". And what I'll tell you is this;

just because someone else does it, doesn't make the action itself not bad

Also didn't the crowd stop chanting CM Punk at AJ Lee and start chanting for her because she's you know good.

Yeah, after CM Punk had to basically call off the hounds, and say this.

They seem to chant my name at her. I’ve had a couple people say they think it’s a respect thing to me, but it’s not me, it’s her. Chant her name.

Also last time I checked the IWC loves NXT, mainly because they always say the NXT division is superior to the Divas and also because there was a massive Bayley chant last night. Also the ones who aren't blinded by TNA hate also like the Knockouts division.

Valid, to certain degrees. TNA also is the same company that does that rather idiotic "let the pigeons loose" stuff, so I mean, take it as you will.

The NXT stuff has merit, though if I have to hear one more time how Bayley is "attainable", I think I'll slit my wrists. Though yes, the IWC loves NXT, and has this habit of not (usually) sexualizing them. But I could just as easily argue that it's because they aren't seen as "conventionally" attractive, and more "attainable" (see: Bayley).

 

[TJ Matics]

It's bullshit, because even though Divas are getting more ring time, the fans are still using the Divas' gender and sexuality to classify and mock them.

This makes no sense, none.

The WWE giving the divas 3x as much time in the ring than the've been given on a consistent basis in years is bullshit because one crowd chants disgusting obscenities at them and the IWC still consist of a majority of sexist pigs? If the WWE could control the crowd there would be no Yeslemania and CM Punk would be less than an afterthought. The divas have always and will always be mocked by their gender and sexuality because women have always and will always be mocked by their gender and sexuality. The WWE can't change the history of the status quo of women being objectified, but they sure as hell shouldn't be shit on for trying to, even if they were pushed into doing it, they've stuck with it. Fingers crossed.

It is a movement, because the divas have progressed with at least more time to show that they can be at least decent in the ring. With that time they've shown that they can carry on 10 minute match on a regular basis, which a lot of "fans" thought them incapable of doing. If the crowd continues to chant obscenities at them, that's the crowds ignorance and stupidity that will never change, not the fault of divas or management. Is there still a lot of work to be done? You betcha. If the #GiveDivasAChance movement ends on Raw next week then call it bullshit, but as for now they're sticking with it and that's great.

 

[emilygoindown]

Hi,

From the females perspective I feel that this is getting put way over proportion and taken way to seriously.

It seams to me that the crowd were just trying to be 'smart', we have seen this many times in a number of examples, most famously the 'CM Punk' chants directed at AJ in almost all her matches.
The crowd was simply showing that they were aware who these women were married or in a relationship with, obviously these women have sex with their partners and the fans were just showing there smarts. They were basically saying to Brie Bella the fact the she has sex with Daniel Bryan, and that they know. That doesn't mean they were suggesting they are ****s or anything like that. I don't think it was sexist, but merely some fans taking a joke a bit to far, either way as a woman I don't feel they were trying to attack us in any way and didn't mean to be offensive.

I didn't even here the chants anyway, so its not a huge deal.

Thanks

 

[Poop Master Flex]

Although I get what you're trying to say you can't expect fans to stop identifying their female performers by their gender, sexuality and bodies when a shit ton of diva's are using those same tools to get noticed. I understand Total Diva's is scripted but lets consider some of the things they've done on that show. As of the end of their last season we have seen:

- Rosa trying to plan a wardrobe malfunction to get over more.
- The Bella's (especially Nikki) flaunting their bodies and often getting very detailed about their sex life.
- Paige toying with guys because she doesn't want a boyfriend
- Nattie flirting with other guys, often trying to make Tyson Kidd jealous

The point I'm trying to make is the diva's and WWE have caused A LOT of this sexist behavior from the fans in the manner they've presented themselves to the fans and until the Diva's and WWE start presenting the diva's in a better manner they have no one to blame but themselves for this.

I'm just saying if a girl decides to sleep with all her girlfriends partners don't get upset when they call you a ****e.

 

[SoulTrain4]

Total Divas has little to do with this. Sexist chants existed long before Total Divas.

 

[George Steele's Barber]

Oral sex between two or three or forty seven consenting adults is a wonderful and beautiful thing that should be celebrated by the masses. Fuck Arbor Day, ********er Cuntlicker Day should be celebrated by all.

Those fans were being inappropriate but once again I'd Wear Pippa Middleton as a Feedbag is blowing something out of proportion. I feel bad that he thinks so less of women that he has to take up causes that are really degrading and distracting to them. Equal pay for equal work v. smart fans being silly? I'll take the low hanging fruit.

 

[chuckmdubya]

There are so many factors in this argument that it is impossible to address them all in one posting or even thread for that matter.

First, the Divas are kind of like mini Jackie Robinsons. They are entering into an arena where men have always dominated. The feats of strength, bravery, and endurance performed by these entertainers are originally what attracted fans to pro wrestling. As has been the case throughout human history, the male human's physicality and strength have always been superior to that of the female human. This is no doubt a survival mechanism programmed into our DNA, and it allowed for human society to thrive by dividing tasks.

So women face an uphill battle from the moment they decide to pursue the goal of being a WWE diva. Most women simply do not have the physical abilities to match what the men do, so they are viewed as less valuable in the sports entertainment business. Even when they are able to come very close to matching the men in strength and physical ability (Chyna) they still aren't viewed in the same light as men.

Slowly they have become more accepted by fans and the idea of women performing athletic feats is becoming more and more accepted by fans of pro sports. Not only have they become more accepted, they've gotten a whole lot better. Modern Diva's are far more athletically talented than attitude era divas.

The chants discussed in this post are ridiculous and quite frankly there are too many men with bad manners and a huge lack of respect for the athletes that are at the top of their profession. These women they were chanting at could probably kick their asses too. They do use sex appeal to the advantage of their characters, but so do the men. That's why the Rock held the title for years, and Foley only held it for weeks, the chicks dig the Rock much more than Mick.

In summary, the Diva's have come a long way from the bikini contests of the 90's. They are great athletes, and deserve the respect of the crowd. But due to the nature of the business, they will probably not ever be a main attraction. If we want to see sex appeal, we can find that anywhere, thanks to a sex obsessed society. But if we want to see women put on awesome pro wrestling matches, all we gotta do is respect the performers, just like their male counterparts.

 

[Slyfox696]

Full Disclosure: I've watched a total of five or six Total Divas episodes, so I'm not exactly the best source of knowledge here. But do Naomi and Nattie take part in this talk of sex?

Yes.

It also doesn't account for AJ, who refuses even casual appearances on Total Divas.

And from the snippet you posted, she got much less reaction in this way.

Probably for the same reason they know AJ sucks Punk?

CM Punk is the god of many Internet fans. Naomi/Uso is not.

I mean, did we really not know that Nikki Bella and John Cena were a couple, before Total Divas was even a thing?

I don't believe I did and I'm a fairly big Cena fan. In fairness, I could not care less which wrestler is dating which wrestler, but Total Divas makes it pretty clear the relationship the various divas have.

It seams to me that the crowd were just trying to be 'smart'

Yep. That's exactly what it sounds like to me.

By the way, your screenname seems apropos for this thread.

Total Divas has little to do with this.

I agree. I'm just explaining why I have a hard time becoming upset about it.

 

[LDubz]

Don't really understand why sexual content in WWE (whether its chants or TV content) is deemed as sexist and objectifying. It's frankly ridiculous and PC nonsense. Is it degrading because its women, or is it just degrading? Did you feel less of a man when Jeff Hardy was the object of desire for a lot of girls, or Val Venis for a lot of women? Come on. Grow a skin or a pair, or both.

Some of the chants are a bit OTT but it's really a non-issue on the whole.

 

[Bernkastel]

Even Trish and Lita received cat calls during their matches. When I hit my peak as a women's wrestling advocate, I never saw that as disrespectful. I saw it as the fans acknowledging that these are beautiful women who kick ass. I'm not going to say what the fans chanted at Mania was right or wrong. I don't watch Total Divas, so I can't say that the show is an influence on me or not. But what I can say is there's a line between objectification as admiration, and objectification as degradation.

If Total Divas does market sex as a major part of their story lines, should it be any real wonder than fans are chanting these things? Not really.

 

[Torgo]

Its the same principle of girls getting mad at guys staring at them when they dress like strippers.

The Divas dress like porn stars, then openly discuss various sex acts on Total Divas, then get mad when people chant about it?

It was a hot crowd yelling at a(nother) terrible diva's match. Nothing more. Just more PC bullshit coming out of the sewer again.

 

[XXJJ]

It comes down to how they portray themselves. Go to nikki bellas instagram account.. half of her pictures are her showing off her ass and tits. If you want to show off your tits thats fine, but don't get offended when someone writes or says a lewd comment about you.

If someone like Ronda Rousey would get those cat calls, then I would agree how awful and sexist it is.

 

[boywithbluehanger]

If they had a bunch of women who could impress in the ring a variety of ways like the men, then I would care. But even the best women on the roster still end up annoyingly screaming, badly fake-punching (somehow even worse than the men), overselling, and delivering weak finishers. For the most part, the women that WWE hire are literally inferior professional wrestlers to the men.

Outside of them shaking their butts, wearing skimpy clothing, and the occasional lesbian kiss, I don't care to see them waste time on my screen.

The sad thing is that I just know there's a ton of women out there would would make far more entertaining pro wrestlers. It's just that they don't exactly look like the stereotypical beauty, so they get no love.

 

[Jericho91]

I'm not saying there isn't a place in the world for #GiveDivasAChance. But unless we, as a whole, learn to stop identifying women by:

• Their Gender
• Their Sexuality
• Their Bodies

Then I consider this "movement" to be utter shit, just another in the long list of the IWC's bitchings of the month (and yes, I totally realize I am a member of the IWC. Why do you think I'm so annoyed by these chants? This only confirms the causal fan's viewpoint of the IWC.) Because, frankly, why should the WWE view their talent as more than objectified sex toys, when their fan base objectifies them like sex toys?

Oh, did the audience hurt your feelings there kid ?

You do realize there were much more attractive divas in the past and never got this treatment because THEY COULD ACTUALLY WRESTLE !

The Divas Division is a joke. Whens the last time Vince or HHH took it seriously ?

I wonder how you would've reacted in the attitude era with those bra and panty matches. Cry me a river I guess.

If I bother watching a divas match it's mainly because I see some sexy shit go on during the match. I don't watch it to enjoy a wrestling match. There you go.

 

[BestWrestlingOpinions]

I pretty much agree with everything you said, apart from this: "Do you really believe the fans that started those chants aren't members of the IWC? The very same IWC that started this whole #GiveDivasAChance bullshit, anyway? That post-Wrestlemania crowd, largely, is the IWC."

The IWC isn't a solid mass of people with the same opinions. There are respectful people in the IWC, that probably started the #GiveDivasAChance thing, and who genuinely wanted that, and then there are the other people who are disrespectful and will chant anything just to have fun, which is being mostly done by insulting other. You can't mix all the people under one title (IWC). The point I'm getting here, there isn't really any hypocrisy. It's just different people who want different things.

Also I completely agree with Skyfox on the second post. The fact that there is a "reality" show headlined by the Bellas, who only talk about their sexual life pretty much makes most people think that that's all they care about and therefore getting the response. It might be harsh and disrespectful, because it's scripted and all, but when you present it as reality TV, you really can't go asking for people to look over it and not chant what they chant. They signed up for it, no one forced them to do TD, but since they do, they are getting that reaction.

 

[Navi]

If someone like Ronda Rousey would get those cat calls, then I would agree how awful and sexist it is.

I don't think anyone in their right mind would dare make those kind of comments about Ronda Rousey. She's the type that would stop what she's doing, get out of the ring, beat the shit out of the person who made the comment or comments and then get back to what she was doing.

That's the difference here. An athletic like Rousey is respected by most men. She is an actual MMA fighter, not a scripted wrestler like Nikki Bella. Now I'm not saying that what the fans did was right, as a matter of fact it was disgusting. I don't watch Total Diva's at all, and if they talk about their sex life then hey who am I to say anything.

It's just that there are some things you discuss openly and some things that you don't. Like when I go shopping with my friends, we talk about the newest style of shoes, or the newest colour of nail polish. Yes I'm a woman, we don't talk about our sex lives and go into detail of what we do in bed at home with our husbands. My husband would be mortified if I did.

So while the fans weren't right in what they said, and they should be ashamed of themselves, the WWE and the whole Diva's division should maybe take a step back and look at how they portray themselves. People in glass houses shouldn't be throwing stones here.