WCW vs. ECW

[bigp523]

First off if there is another thread like this, I apoligize.

With that said, this has been a longstanding debate between me and a few of my buddies. Its a pretty simple question. What was better, WCW or ECW?

Now both companies certainly had there pros and cons. Each had a devoted fan base, with ECW's being almost cultlike. Both had tremendous wrestlers, and eash one was led by a tyrant(for atleast most if it's run with Bischoff).

For me, it had to be WCW. I was only about 8 years old during the Monday Night Wars, and was drawn by the amazing athleticism shown by ther cruiserweghts of WCW. Like most kids my age, Rey Mysterio was absolutely incredible to watch. And while many may say that WCW stole their talent from WWF and ECW, isnt that exactly Vince McMahon did in the 80's? Like any company WCW had it's bad moments( the fingerpoke of doom), it also had great storylines like the NWO and had some great wrestlers.

If you had to pic one to watch, what would it be, WCW or ECW?

 

[Y 2 Jake]

ECW. Because WCW was always a shit WWE to me. What's worse is that I think TNA is a shit WCW.

ECW provided me with something different after years of watching cartoonish WWE. WCW didn't show me anything different. The n.W.o. were good though, for a couple of months. But the b.W.o were just as good. Only they didn't take up too much screen time and they died off before I had chance to get really bored of them.

 

[ssvegita77]

ECW, without question. Being a frequent visitor to ECW's Madhouse of Extreme (The Elk's Lodge on Queens Blvd) my heart and soul lay with ECW.

ECW was revolutionary, while WCW was just complacent with being WWF jr. ECW tried things and pushed the envelope, while Bischoff was content to rely on the star power of legends well past their prime. I always thought that this was a shame. In all honesty WCW had more talented guys (mostly from ECW) but they continued to let the company revolve around Hogan/Savage/Piper/Flair (no disrespect intended)/Luger (much disrespect intended). I always felt that if you wanted the star power of those guys, fine. However you should have kept them feuding with each other and away from the title picture. It was always such garbage that we had this great undercard and at the last 2-3 matches we'd have to suffer these old fools stinking up the PPV's.

ECW mostly made their own stars. Sure alot of big names wanted nothing to do with it but being that you had a roster stocked with hungry/talented young guys, it suceeded. It was fun, original, provocative and gutsy. If you never experienced it live believe me when I tell you it was more than just a rinky dink wrestling promotion. When you were there it was like a community, you felt like you were a part of something bigger. Paul was leading the charge to take this thing that you loved as a kid and make it grow up with you, instead of still treating you like a child. It worked.

 

[WWF Wrestling Fan]

To me I liked ECW more then WCW for all the crazy ass shit they would do WCW brought in Hardcore when ECW WAS Hardcore and WCW stealing one of the best ECW Wrestlers in my eyes The Sandman and gave him the new name '' Hardcore Hak '' that name i have to say by far is the worst name for a wrestler besides Dustin Rhodes as Seven and Rick Rude as The Halloween Phantom it was a bad product except for the nWo when it 1st started not when they had mid carders join the nWo ECW will always will be remembered for Joey Styles screaming ''OH MY GOD'' and for Joey Styles beening the only person never been before him never will be after the only man in wrestling to not have a color commontator by him calling the matches with him .

 

[Zoecool13]

ECW was better. I never liked WCW, and used to stay up late to see the ECW show. I dunno, I just remember being a young kid and remember the promoting of a scaffolding match at an upcoming show. I was hooked at that point.

 

[Motor City Mayhem]

ECW gets my vote.
To me, like whats been said, is that WCW was a Mini WWE, and I think that ECW was so much different then WWE and WCW was.

ECW was Extreme, it was great, and when it wasn't Extreme, the wrestling was still amazing. The fan base for ECW was not a Fanbase, it was like you said, A cult. You live, breathed, bled ECW. You didn't watch WWE or WCW you watch ECW. And I think that in that time, ECW was the better of the two.

If I had to rate the 4 wrestling companies it would be this.

WWE- The All-Time Best Company.
ECW- The Only Distinct Company of the four that was truly different.
WCW- The Old Age TNA, with better talent, but still the Mini WWE.(Even though they had beat WWE for a while)
TNA- Shittier version of WCW.

 

[Jack-Hammer]

I was never all that crazy about either company to be honest but if I had to pick one, I'd pick WCW. The nWo storyline completely pulled me in and really made me take notice of WCW. Even though I'd regularly watched WCW for as long as I could remember, I never took it to be anywhere near what the WWF was. The nWo is the one thing that WCW had that made me ultimately stand up and take notice. Most Monday nights, at least for a few years, I flipped back and forth between Raw and Nitro. It may have only been that one thing, but it's one more thing that ECW didn't have for me.

To me, ECW was just one huge gimmick match from start to finish. It seemed that every match was some sort of bloodbath without much of a point. I thought it was pretty cool for a little while until the novelty of having just about every single match be a brawl where someone got put through a table, slammed on thumbtacks, got smacked 20 or 30 times with a kendo stick, being struck with a barb-wire wrapped baseball bat, etc. simply lost its luster. ECW was like an ultra violent B-Movie, fun to watch for a while but the violence for the sake of violence just made me change the channel eventually.

 

[Kenny Powers]

ECW was extremely fun to watch. No pun intended. WCW was the number one company for years in the mid 90's. I didn't really enjoy WCW much because of the politics, but the NWO was definitely new and interesting until they had everyone on the roster in NWO. WCW had a lot of great stars but never created any new stars except for Goldberg. Benoit, Booker T, and Double J were champions in the end when no one was watching. The sad thing was that Russo and David Arquette were WCW champions too.

ECW was something new but no one could get access to it. Especially where I live. I think ECW changed the wrestling industry. If it weren't for ECW, WWF would still have Doink the Clown and Papa Shango. The sad thing is WWE is pretty much going back to that pre ECW era with Eugene and Hornswoggle. ECW made stars from wrestlers WCW and WWE wouldn't look twice at. ECW was realistic but too hardcore and real for most people. I think TNA is a mix between the WCW talent and WCW/ECW storylines and violence. I don't think TNA or WWE would exist without ECW.

 

[The Gribbler]

I personally preferred ECW but if you want to go by success alone then WCW hands down. ECW may have been more entertaining but WCW for a number of years was a huge draw. Making a bucket load of money and almost knocking out one of the most established wrestling companies in history.

In the end they both lost out to the true No. 1 company anyway.

But on Entertainment ECW - On success WCW

 

[NSL]

ECW > WCW, but with a lot of disclaimers. ECW as a whole, was better than anything WCW did leading up to the nWo, and anything they did once the nWo turned into the Civil War. ECW is the company that forced Vince to create the Attitude Era, and that's what pushed WCW to do just about everything they did. Without ECW, WCW would have been bought out and sold for parts long before it really was. I still enjoy going back and watching old WCW stuff, but if there was a choice between Sting v Hogan at Starrcade, or RVD v Sabu from any weekly ECW show, I'd go and watch Heyman's boys any day.

 

[Slyfox696]

Well, one was successful, the other was not. One made money, the other did not. One had the best wrestlers in the world, the other did not. One had the biggest names in history, the other did not.

So yeah, I'm going to WCW. I'll take quality professional wrestling over a bunch of hacks hitting each other with skillets any day.

ECW is the company that forced Vince to create the Attitude Era

Bullshit in every way. WCW is what forced Vince to go with Attitude, by kicking the WWF's ass WITH Attitude. WCW was Attitude before the WWF adopted it.

 

[X]

Well, one was successful, the other was not. One made money, the other did not. One had the best wrestlers in the world, the other did not. One had the biggest names in history, the other did not.

If that's what you look for when determining what wrestling you enjoy, more power to you. Alot of us enjoy quality in-ring matches to go along with those great wrestlers, production values, and angles.

So yeah, I'm going to WCW. I'll take quality professional wrestling over a bunch of hacks hitting each other with skillets any day.

Yes, because clearly every single ECW match was comprised of hacks hitting each other with skillets. That's not hyperbolic in the least bit.

ECW showcased a wide variety of wrestling styles Sly, not just the hardcore wrestling that you consider trash apparently. Lucha and technical wrestling were showcased frequently in ECW, and just because a match is a gimmick match doesn't mean it can't be a great match, which sometimes detractors of ECW seem to forget.

Bullshit in every way. WCW is what forced Vince to go with Attitude, by kicking the WWF's ass WITH Attitude. WCW was Attitude before the WWF adopted it.

That's hilariously wrong and you know it Sly. Before WCW was doing their "attitude" (which really didn't actually involve much attitude. It was the nWo...and that was it.) ECW was the ones who were showcasing it. The buzz around ECW is what led to the changes in WCW and WWF, and to suggest otherwise is simply incorrect.

Was WCW the more successful and historically important promotion? Sure was. I don't really give a shit though, because I prefer ECW, and always will. No other US promotion has showcased such a wide variety of styles and wrestlers like ECW did, and watching a show of theirs was always worth it. I watch ECW much more than I do my old WCW shows.

That's not to say WCW didn't have their own share of greatness, because they certainly did. But at the end of the day, I'm going to take RVD-Jerry Lynn over Sting-Hogan every damn time. I don't care if that makes me one of those automaton "ROH Bots" referred to on here, but that's my personal preference. ECW has entertained me more than WCW has.

 

[Slyfox696]

If that's what you look for when determining what wrestling you enjoy, more power to you. Alot of us enjoy quality in-ring matches to go along with those great wrestlers, production values, and angles.

Yes, so do I. That's why I said they had "the best wrestlers in the world". It's right there in black and white. ECW never had matches with the quality of Rey vs. Eddie vs. Halloween Havoc 97 or DDP vs. Goldberg from Halloween Havoc 98, or Hart vs. Benoit from Raw. And there were many other good matches in there as well.

Yes, because clearly every single ECW match was comprised of hacks hitting each other with skillets. That's not hyperbolic in the least bit.

Well, I could have included the matches where people fall through tables, get lit on fire, become struck with ladders, and have VCRs thrown at them, but I thought it would have become redundant.

ECW showcased a wide variety of wrestling styles Sly, not just the hardcore wrestling that you consider trash apparently.

And they made their living on the hardcore style. Don't be like all the ECW fans and kid yourself; ECW marketed itself on the "extreme"...hell, it was in their name. If they were about technical and lucha matches, then they couldn't very well use that extreme moniker. Furthermore, look at all of the champions they had in the company's history. Once Douglas threw down the belt, and ECW became "extreme", how many of their champions didn't work hardcore matches? 1? 2? At the most?

That's hilariously wrong and you know it Sly. Before WCW was doing their "attitude" (which really didn't actually involve much attitude. It was the nWo...and that was it.) ECW was the ones who were showcasing it. The buzz around ECW is what led to the changes in WCW and WWF, and to suggest otherwise is simply incorrect.

The buzz? Not a chance. Let me ask you this...

If ECW's "buzz" was so great, how come Vince McMahon didn't go to Attitude until 1997/1998? I mean, ECW had been doing their thing for years at that point...how come it wasn't until WCW was kicking the WWF's ass and the WWF was almost bankrupt that they began to go "Attitude"?

The answer is because ECW WASN'T great. When Bischoff took over WCW, HE went to more of an edgy television program...ECW had nothing to do with. The nWo was a storyline that was ripped off from Japan, but because of the stars that were in the storyline, and the way they approached their television product (focusing more on the teenagers and young adults), that is when they started to take off. And when Bischoff was told he couldn't do the more edgy product anymore, that's when they began to sink.

ECW had nothing to do with it.

Was WCW the more successful and historically important promotion? Sure was. I don't really give a shit though, because I prefer ECW, and always will. No other US promotion has showcased such a wide variety of styles and wrestlers like ECW did

Uhh, sure they have. Both WCW and the WWF have done so. Hell, the WWF still continues to do so.

The difference is that WCW and WWF had workers who could do it well, not just do it.

 

[klunderbunker]

Are we actually discussing this? From an inring standpoint, I'd take WCW. From a business standpoint, I'd take WCW. From a creative standpoint.....close but WCW by a hair. WCW had WWF on the absolute brink of destruction and it took a major blunder to save Vince. he didn't save him at all but capitalized on the absolute fuckup that was Starrcade 97. I wouldn't say ECW made no money, but they certainly didn't know how to use what they had financially speaking. The wrestling itself was good, but it was a regional promotion that tried to expand too far. WCW was the #1 promotion in the world bar none. ECW was the third biggest in the country, but I'd easily say that many Japanese companies had it trumped, simply due to the financial stability of it. As far as in ring goes, WCW had a far bigger variety of stuff to offer. Now ECW certainly had some great stuff, but it wasn't the focal point of the promotion. The storylines were edgier in ECW, but at the end of the day, that's about all they had to trump WCW with. From a business perspective and an in ring perspective, and arguably a creative perspective (see NWO/Sting angle), WCW trumps ECW in just about every way possible.

Now, to be fair, ECW was certainly good. WCW at the end was likely far worse than the best of ECW. Overall, ECW was a decent distance behind WCW, but considering what they had to work with, they have a lot to be proud of. And yes, it's more than them hitting each other with hard stuff.

 

[X]

Yes, so do I. That's why I said they had "the best wrestlers in the world". It's right there in black and white. ECW never had matches with the quality of Rey vs. Eddie vs. Halloween Havoc 97 or DDP vs. Goldberg from Halloween Havoc 98, or Hart vs. Benoit from Raw. And there were many other good matches in there as well.

Well that's just ridiculous.

This match right here is as good as any WCW match:

​

What a shit match huh?

I love that you bring up Rey Mysterio, Eddie Guerrero, and Chris Benoit as reasons why WCW wrestling was so superior to ECW. Three guys that all wrestled many times in ECW. I guess they just didn't know what they were doing until they reached the hallowed ground of Atlanta though huh?

Well, I could have included the matches where people fall through tables, get lit on fire, become struck with ladders, and have VCRs thrown at them, but I thought it would have become redundant.

Thanks for proving that you clearly don't know what you're talking about.

​

Look at all those VCRs and fire tables Sly! Even CZW would be ashamed of that!

I'm not sure what your trying to argue here. Are you seriously trying to argue that ECW didn't feature lucha libre and technical wrestling? Because if that's your argument, you should probably stop, because you're clearly misinformed on the subject of ECW.

And they made their living on the hardcore style. Don't be like all the ECW fans and kid yourself; ECW marketed itself on the "extreme"...hell, it was in their name. If they were about technical and lucha matches, then they couldn't very well use that extreme moniker. Furthermore, look at all of the champions they had in the company's history. Once Douglas threw down the belt, and ECW became "extreme", how many of their champions didn't work hardcore matches? 1? 2? At the most?

The main events were often hardcore matches, but for you to sit here and claim that ECW was entirely about tables and barbed wire is absolutely ridiculous, and I've just shown you two matches that I pulled off the top of my head to prove that point to you. ECW frequently gave 20+ minutes to great workers to go out there and have solid lucha or technical matches.

Did they market themselves as extreme? Yeah, what's your point? Does that somehow negate the great matches the promotion featured?

The buzz? Not a chance. Let me ask you this...

If ECW's "buzz" was so great, how come Vince McMahon didn't go to Attitude until 1997/1998? I mean, ECW had been doing their thing for years at that point...how come it wasn't until WCW was kicking the WWF's ass and the WWF was almost bankrupt that they began to go "Attitude"?

The answer is because ECW WASN'T great. When Bischoff took over WCW, HE went to more of an edgy television program...ECW had nothing to do with.

Seriously? Are you kidding? Have you been drinking the Vince McMahon Kool-Aid or something?

So WCW just randomly decided to start being edgy then? The buzz around ECW had nothing to do with it? Please, you have got to be kidding me Sly. Yes, Bischoff just pulled that idea right out of his ass huh? And DX was a completely original idea as well too huh?

Did you not notice the fact that WCW and WWF immediately began to pick up talent from ECW? Where do you think guys like Rey Mysterio made a name for themselves in the United States? It was ECW, that's where WCW learned of these guys and plucked them up.

Do you REALLY think that ECW was a completely irrelevant promotion that had zero influence on the WCW or WWF?

Uhh, sure they have. Both WCW and the WWF have done so. Hell, the WWF still continues to do so.

Really? So show me any WWF match in the last, oh I don't know, 20 years, that is anything at all similar to the international six man tag match I just posted. I'm betting the absolute maximum number of matches you will find are ONE.

How many barbed wire matches have the WWE had again?

So ECW most certainly did feature a product that no other promotions could provide. That was it's biggest damn marketing point, that they could get away with things that the WWF and WCW simply couldn't.

The difference is that WCW and WWF had workers who could do it well, not just do it.

What an ignorant and ridiculous statement. Every ECW wrestler had no talent then? If you actually believe that, this debate is pointless, because you're so clearly biased that reason just won't affect you.

Oh Slyfox, you stubborn bastard.

 

[jmt225]

I was raised on WCW. From 1989 until 2001... it was my baby. Even when it sucked hardcore and Raw was booming, I would still convince myself every week that Nitro was better than Raw. That's how much I loved WCW.

I didn't find ECW until 1996, and I didn't start watching the promotion until Barely Legal in early 1997, their very first pay-per-view. While I loved ECW from 1997 up until it died in early 2001, it never passed up my love for WCW. That is.... until I found a site that sold ECW tapes.

1994 until the beginning of 1997 in ECW is the greatest wrestling I've ever seen, and it's not a competition in my mind. They did so much unbelievably great shit during that time. They told awesome, dramatic story after awesome, dramatic story, had countless technical masterpieces, and just blew you away with their violence (which, during that period, all meant something because nothing happened in ECW without their being a back-story as to why it was happening).

So, while WCW will always have a special place in my heart, I treasure my ECW tapes/DVDs from that time period I mentioned as much as anything else I own. In my opinion, it was the greatest product this business has and will ever see. WWE from 1993 'til Wrestlemania 14 was tremendous in my book, and so was WCW from 1990 'til about Starrcade 1997. But all those years do not equal the greatness that was ECW had during 1994-1997. Those 3 years are just mind blowing. I just wish I could have experienced it while it happened.

 

[Billie Jean]

ECW.
Like someone else said, WCW was just a crap WWF. Were as ECW gave people a huge new outlook. It had violence and controversy, evreything that you could ask for. WCW just started to bore me after a while and after the Fingerpoke of doom, and David Arquettes run as WCW champ, i think it was dead. The most controversial thing ECW done was a crusifixion angle, not that bad eh?

 

[Kenny Powers]

I have to state again that even though WCW was the number one promotion for years, they died out. I don't think you will hear fans chant WCW! at a wrestling show. Well, they may if they see Russo win the championship. ECW still today has a huge hardcore following. It's idiotic to say that every single ECW match was about tables and barbwire. As far as people saying that ECW just had a bunch of hacks, please.

I guess Steve Austin was a hack? RVD, Mysterio, Guerrero, Benoit, Pillman, Mike Awesome, and Lance Storm were hacks too. That's like saying TNA is full of hacks with no other talent. Where were the TLC matches that WCW had that supposedly WWE copied from? I'm pretty sure the only organization that was famous for their hardcore matches was ECW. That's how WWE got their attitude, it wasn't NWO. They may have copied something similiar with DX but the hardcore matches? Mick Foley was Cactus Jack with Terry Funk in dumpster matches on Raw when he left ECW.

Yeah, I'm sure WWE didn't copy a thing from ECW.