MaciniRocks
Post broken keyboard angle macini..
If this belongs in another section, then by all means, please move it there.
This is NOT a WWF/E thread. This a also NOT a bash Vince and WWF/E thread. I want real answers and actual arguments instead of the crap I've been getting that tries to pass for them.
Now that that is out of the way...
I got into a pretty heated discussion tonight. I was watching some ROH on JTV and as usual I knew most of the guys in the chat. It started with the state of the indies with those that have shutdown or are in bad financial shape and the lamenting of such. Then it turned into the "dragon/nigel to wwe" chat that always comes with anything ROH... which turned into WWE chat.
It became pretty clear that there were a lot of WWE haters in the chatroom who had remained silent until Vince was brought up. It instantly became a "F WWE that $%^$ product, this is real wrestling go the hell away" type of atmosphere. And I defending myself like an idiot talking about the indies that I love and have watched and paid for. The ones that they have never even heard of, but still I was a WWE lover and that meant I was an idiot.
After completely blowing a gasket, one of my buds who is a wrestler (formerly known as Styxx) got me to calm down and another regular made me and the main offender promise to keep it chill. This stayed until about 2 hours later during Super J Cup 1994 I made a Perry Saturn referrence during Dean Malenko vs Gedo. This lead to me trying to discuss why though many might be mad at Vince right now and hate the WWE/F and even claim to have always hated it... we need to thank Vince.
Yes, I said it. Without Vince, there would not have been a Wrestlemania, there would not have been a National level promotion who got weekly TV right after Saturday Morning Cartoons. At the time, the NWA was trying. They started Starrcade at the end of 1983. But they didn't garner the type of mainstream attention that WWF did. There were no big members of Hollywood or the Music World in attendance. There was no one else at the time really trying to take Wrestling main stream.
Would wrestling have ever made it to the levels it did were it not for Vince's creative vision? Something at the time that was unheard of? Yes we can attribute it to having Hulk Hogan at his side but still Hogan going the way he was WAS Vince's idea. The whole thing was Vince's brainchild, his father was even unhappy with what he was doing. Would wrestling have come together with its best and brightest and shined on its own? Would the territorial egos get put aside for something larger without a larger ego taking control? Would fans have accepted it to the level they did if presented the way it was at the time? Did Vince really give us modern wrestling?
So my question is... Was Vince McMahon a visionary for what he did or was it just the inevitable being done by some lucky kid who grew up in a trailer and broke all the unwritten rules of the rasslin business?
This is NOT a WWF/E thread. This a also NOT a bash Vince and WWF/E thread. I want real answers and actual arguments instead of the crap I've been getting that tries to pass for them.
Now that that is out of the way...
I got into a pretty heated discussion tonight. I was watching some ROH on JTV and as usual I knew most of the guys in the chat. It started with the state of the indies with those that have shutdown or are in bad financial shape and the lamenting of such. Then it turned into the "dragon/nigel to wwe" chat that always comes with anything ROH... which turned into WWE chat.
It became pretty clear that there were a lot of WWE haters in the chatroom who had remained silent until Vince was brought up. It instantly became a "F WWE that $%^$ product, this is real wrestling go the hell away" type of atmosphere. And I defending myself like an idiot talking about the indies that I love and have watched and paid for. The ones that they have never even heard of, but still I was a WWE lover and that meant I was an idiot.
After completely blowing a gasket, one of my buds who is a wrestler (formerly known as Styxx) got me to calm down and another regular made me and the main offender promise to keep it chill. This stayed until about 2 hours later during Super J Cup 1994 I made a Perry Saturn referrence during Dean Malenko vs Gedo. This lead to me trying to discuss why though many might be mad at Vince right now and hate the WWE/F and even claim to have always hated it... we need to thank Vince.
Yes, I said it. Without Vince, there would not have been a Wrestlemania, there would not have been a National level promotion who got weekly TV right after Saturday Morning Cartoons. At the time, the NWA was trying. They started Starrcade at the end of 1983. But they didn't garner the type of mainstream attention that WWF did. There were no big members of Hollywood or the Music World in attendance. There was no one else at the time really trying to take Wrestling main stream.
Would wrestling have ever made it to the levels it did were it not for Vince's creative vision? Something at the time that was unheard of? Yes we can attribute it to having Hulk Hogan at his side but still Hogan going the way he was WAS Vince's idea. The whole thing was Vince's brainchild, his father was even unhappy with what he was doing. Would wrestling have come together with its best and brightest and shined on its own? Would the territorial egos get put aside for something larger without a larger ego taking control? Would fans have accepted it to the level they did if presented the way it was at the time? Did Vince really give us modern wrestling?
So my question is... Was Vince McMahon a visionary for what he did or was it just the inevitable being done by some lucky kid who grew up in a trailer and broke all the unwritten rules of the rasslin business?
